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Active protest against Houston DA regarding gun possession
8/30/2005 | Will Malven

Posted on 08/30/2005 6:02:08 AM PDT by WillMalven

I just sent this letter to Houston DA Chuck Rosenthal.

"Sir,

Your stance on the enforcement of the Texas handgun travel law is unacceptable. The intent of the State Legislature and Governor in passing this law revision was and is very clear. Your declaration of intent to arrest and prosecute drivers without CCL’s found to be carrying firearms in their automobiles is just as clearly an effort to disregard the will of the people of Texas and Harris County as reflected in the State Legislature. In doing so you are in direct violation of your sworn duties. All data show that the restriction of gun possession leads to higher, not lower crime. The Bill of Rights guarantees each American Citizen the individual the right to keep and bear arms. Your decision in this case not only thwarts will of the Texas Legislature, but flies in the face of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Your disrespect for the will of the people is both shameful and arrogant. Your Liberal agenda will not succeed.

Enjoy your brief day in the sun, it will not last. You may rest assured that you will not be re-elected to office. We gun owners will actively campaign against your re-election.

Sincerely

Will Malven The Tin Ear http://mensnewsdaily.com/blog/malven"


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Texas; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; bang; banglist; chuckrosenthal; gungrabbers; gunpossession; harriscounty; houston; policestate; secondamendment; texas; texaslegislature; tx; tyranny
We Harris county residents need to mount a massive campaign to show this Bozo that he is wrong and will pay for it next election.
1 posted on 08/30/2005 6:02:11 AM PDT by WillMalven
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To: WillMalven

I stopped voting for Chuck a couple years ago. I don't vote Rat but he doesn't get my vote even if I have to leave that race blank.


2 posted on 08/30/2005 6:05:42 AM PDT by weegee (The Rovebaiting by DUAC must stop. It is nothing but a partisan witchhunt.)
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To: WillMalven

I don't need my morning coffee. You woke me up with this bombshell. Please give the link to your source for this article. I'd like to read it.


3 posted on 08/30/2005 6:06:08 AM PDT by right wing
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To: right wing
DA opposed to new handgun law

His e-mail address: ChuckRosenthal2004@yahoo.com
4 posted on 08/30/2005 6:10:53 AM PDT by WillMalven (It don't matter where you are when "the bomb" goes off, as long as you can say "What was that?")
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To: WillMalven

I personally know 5 people who have been car jacked in the past year. 2 of them in the past month. Different parts of town, the last was kidnapped in the backseat. All female.

One was kicked in the ribs and had a sawed off shotgun shoved in her face by a teen.

The cars have been recovered and there is little effort made by the police to actually prosecute these cases. In one, the crook made phone calls with the owner's cell phone. In another there was a Reliant Park ID badge in the recovered car. Didn't sound like the police wanted to take any prints from the interior of the cars.

The "police" in this town are too busy installing red light cameras, mandating tows for cars stopped in a highway breakdown lane for more than 5 minutes at ANY time of day, and enforcing EPA mandated speed limits below 70 MPH. Oh, and jay-walking is now enforced downtown.

Easy to ticket the harmless citizens and take their revenue for the city budget.

If the police won't stop carjacking, it will HAVE to be up to the owners of those cars.


5 posted on 08/30/2005 6:11:35 AM PDT by weegee (The Rovebaiting by DUAC must stop. It is nothing but a partisan witchhunt.)
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To: Flyer

Houston...


6 posted on 08/30/2005 6:11:57 AM PDT by weegee (The Rovebaiting by DUAC must stop. It is nothing but a partisan witchhunt.)
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To: WillMalven

The Cowards e-mail account has been disabled!!!


7 posted on 08/30/2005 6:12:20 AM PDT by WillMalven (It don't matter where you are when "the bomb" goes off, as long as you can say "What was that?")
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To: WillMalven

His e-mail address at the DA's Office.

da@dao.co.harris.tx.us


8 posted on 08/30/2005 6:22:04 AM PDT by WillMalven (It don't matter where you are when "the bomb" goes off, as long as you can say "What was that?")
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To: WillMalven; weegee
The Cowards e-mail account has been disabled!!!

Calling all law abiding gun owners:

Please take a minute and give Chuck Rosenthal a phone call to express your outrage over his intent to prosecute you for traveling with a gun in your car. It will only take a minute and he needs to get an avalanche of calls today! Phone: 713-755-5800

9 posted on 08/30/2005 6:24:27 AM PDT by right wing
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To: WillMalven

The city of Houston doesn't have its own domain name?

Is is prudent to send an email directly to him anyhow? It would seem it would be better to sent to indirectly so the emails would be counted and verified rather than to someone who will just delete them and say he never had a negative response?

Johnny Come Lately


10 posted on 08/30/2005 6:28:51 AM PDT by School of Rational Thought (Republican - The thinking people's party)
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To: WillMalven; All
The Cowards e-mail account has been disabled!!!

Harris County District Attorney Chuck Rosenthal
 
1201 Franklin Street, Suite 600
Houston, TX 77002
 
Phone: (713) 755-5800
Fax: (713) 755-6865
Website: dao-web.dao.hctx.net/
Email: da@dao.co.harris.tx.us

Contact Your Elected Officials: Harris Country Republican Party

11 posted on 08/30/2005 6:29:08 AM PDT by holymoly (Just because.)
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To: holymoly
From www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3330553

More than 237,000 Texans have concealed handgun licenses. But many other law-abiding adults don't have licenses because they are disqualified by exceptions that have nothing to do with public safety, said Alice Tripp, a lobbyist for the Texas State Rifle Association, an NRA affiliate.

Tripp said people who have defaulted on student loans, who owe the state sales tax or franchise tax payments or are behind in child support payments are ineligible to receive a license.

Workaround for these individuals:

Get a license from Florida or Utah, which are recognized in Texas.  There is no prohibition in Texas law that prevents Texas residents from carrying on a license from a different state.


12 posted on 08/30/2005 6:44:57 AM PDT by Mini-14
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To: WillMalven

Bookmark for later reference.


13 posted on 08/30/2005 6:53:04 AM PDT by Desron13 (If you constantly vote between the lesser of two evils then evil is your ultimate destination.)
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To: holymoly

bttt...


14 posted on 08/30/2005 6:57:27 AM PDT by right wing
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To: weegee

After this, I'll do the same.


15 posted on 08/30/2005 7:48:45 AM PDT by right wing
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To: right wing; weegee; holymoly

Rosenthal's response to my e-mail (verbatim):

"Well, as it so happens I am in favor of gun ownership. I took an oath to defend and protect the Constitution and laws of the United States and of this state, and I intend to do exactly that. There are a number of instances where the law permits the possession of handguns in cars we recognize those laws, but I believe that they should be sorted out in court, and not on the streets.
Consider this scenario. Police officers stop a car for a traffic violation. While getting ID from the driver, he sees the butt of a handgun protruding from under the driver's seat. Office asks the driver where he is going. Driver answers that he is going to the liquor store 2 miles from his house. Driver meets the other requisites for "traveling". On the way back from the adult beverage store, driver sees someone who he thinks "disrespected" him some time back and shoots his acquaintance. Victim survives, finds out the police knew about the gun, the settled law is that he was not traveling; officer and his municipality are sued by the victim.
Point is that not everyone is as judicious about gun ownership as you and your friends probably are.
If the legislature had really meant to allow anyone who wanted to carry a handgun (note, the law does not apply to shoulder weapons) in their car, why do you suppose they did not repeal the laws with respect concealed carry permits? Presumptions are simply that. For instance all persons charged with crimes are presumed to be innocent, but that doesn't mean that they are in fact innocent.
By the way, I'm up for re-election in '08."

That last seems a might arrogant to me...


16 posted on 08/30/2005 7:52:13 AM PDT by WillMalven (It don't matter where you are when "the bomb" goes off, as long as you can say "What was that?")
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To: WillMalven
You're right. The s.o.b's last sentence is indeed arrogant. Besides this blows holes in the scenario he used as an example:

The new statute says a person is "presumed to be traveling" if he or she is in a private vehicle, is not engaged in criminal activity (except for a minor traffic offense), is not prohibited by any other law from possessing a firearm and is not a member of a criminal street gang.

It also requires the handgun to be concealed in the car, although weapons can be discovered by officers during routine traffic stops if a driver gives permission for a car to be searched or opens a glove compartment where a gun is secured to retrieve an insurance card or other documentation.

17 posted on 08/30/2005 8:00:59 AM PDT by right wing
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To: WillMalven
By the way, I'm up for re-election in '08."

I think a reasonable response to that point would be to ask for the section number of Texas law that governs the recall process for Dstrict Attorneys. :=)

18 posted on 08/30/2005 8:01:32 AM PDT by Bob
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To: WillMalven

"There are a number of instances where the law permits the possession of handguns in cars we recognize those laws, but I believe that they should be sorted out in court, and not on the streets."

The "courts" have shown a tendency to try to legislate from the bench. The representatives of the people, the ones who WRITE and PASS the laws have already made this point clear. Stop trying to muck about with the laws.

I still think that Chuck deliberately botched the handling of the same sex sodomy law (which he didn't agree with).


19 posted on 08/30/2005 8:04:52 AM PDT by weegee (The Rovebaiting by DUAC must stop. It is nothing but a partisan witchhunt.)
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To: WillMalven

The guy is a real piece of work. One can go through life wondering about "what if's" but all he can come up with is avaoiding a lawsuit? Pretty lame.


20 posted on 08/30/2005 8:08:07 AM PDT by beltfed308 (Cloth or link. Happiness is a perfect trunion.)
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To: WillMalven
"On the way back from the adult beverage store, driver sees someone who he thinks "disrespected" him some time back and shoots his acquaintance."

Rosenthal's a homo.

21 posted on 08/30/2005 8:10:00 AM PDT by spunkets
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To: right wing; weegee; holymoly

My reply to his reply:

Sir,

With all due respect, I do not believe in running a justice system out of fear of a law suit. I also, if I am reading the new statute correctly have to say that if the officer can see the butt of the hand gun then it is in plain view and in violation of the statute because 1. it can be seen, and 2. because he is clearly not “traveling” by the definition of traveling in the state law. Lastly, I was not aware that it was settled law to arrest someone just because you think they might possibly commit a crime, as per your example. A policeman is not prescient and has no way of knowing that the driver is going to shoot someone who “disrespected” him. In your example, the policeman already knows the driver’s destination so his possession of the firearm is in clear violation of the law.

The presumption of innocence also certainly doesn’t mean they are guilty either. As to the question “why don’t they repeal the laws with respect concealed carry permits?” It is irrelevant, the intent of the law makers is absolutely clear with regard to this revised statute, otherwise there would have been no reason to rewrite the statute to include the “assumption” of travel.

I and my friends are fully aware of the date of your next re-election bid and we will not forget. It is unfortunate that you have taken such a belligerent attitude toward the people in this county who, as law abiding citizens should be some of your strongest supporters.

Sincerely,

Will Malven
The Tin Ear
http://mensnewsdaily.com/blog/malven


22 posted on 08/30/2005 8:10:52 AM PDT by WillMalven (It don't matter where you are when "the bomb" goes off, as long as you can say "What was that?")
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To: WillMalven
Consider this scenario. Police officers stop a car for a traffic violation. While getting ID from the driver, he sees the butt of a handgun protruding from under the driver's seat. Office asks the driver where he is going.

Frankly, it is none of the officer's business. We have the right of travel. Unless the officer is planning to drop the charge and let the driver off with a warning, or escort (say, speeding in an attempt to receive quick medical attention), it should not influence the officer into pursuing further charges.

Driver answers that he is going to the liquor store 2 miles from his house. Driver meets the other requisites for "traveling". On the way back from the adult beverage store, driver sees someone who he thinks "disrespected" him some time back and shoots his acquaintance. Victim survives, finds out the police knew about the gun, the settled law is that he was not traveling; officer and his municipality are sued by the victim.

That's some crazy sort of "what if". The driver could just as easily have been out driving to get a hamburger or a pack of cigarettes and gets disrespected. If we end lawsuit abuse, these goofy cases, holding the officer/county guilty for the actions of a criminal, would go away.

That same driver could use his car as a deadly weapon running another driver off the road or chasing down a pedestrian (I've seen both happen). The officer should have impounded the car when he stopped the driver (though sober), never know what he might do with such a "weapon".

Point is that not everyone is as judicious about gun ownership as you and your friends probably are. If the legislature had really meant to allow anyone who wanted to carry a handgun (note, the law does not apply to shoulder weapons) in their car, why do you suppose they did not repeal the laws with respect concealed carry permits?

Conceal carry still means you can carry your gun on your person when you are walking about. Why would THAT have to be repealed???

Presumptions are simply that. For instance all persons charged with crimes are presumed to be innocent, but that doesn't mean that they are in fact innocent. By the way, I'm up for re-election in '08."

Ladies and gentlemen, now you know the type of "leadership" we face daily in Houston. "Sit down, shut up. And fork over your wallet. I thank you for your support."

23 posted on 08/30/2005 8:12:39 AM PDT by weegee (The Rovebaiting by DUAC must stop. It is nothing but a partisan witchhunt.)
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To: WillMalven

Excellent letter, Will! I don't suppose you've sent a link to this thread to the NRA, have you?


24 posted on 08/30/2005 8:29:52 AM PDT by right wing
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To: weegee

Great points to ponder. Bttt....


25 posted on 08/30/2005 8:30:59 AM PDT by right wing
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To: right wing
No hadn't thought of that.
26 posted on 08/30/2005 8:42:16 AM PDT by WillMalven (It don't matter where you are when "the bomb" goes off, as long as you can say "What was that?")
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To: WillMalven

I too busy trying to decide what kind of gun I'm going to buy for my car. Heh Heh Heh.


27 posted on 08/30/2005 8:43:17 AM PDT by WillMalven (It don't matter where you are when "the bomb" goes off, as long as you can say "What was that?")
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To: WillMalven

Just think, our NRA friends can make certain that Chucky has a memorable day!


28 posted on 08/30/2005 8:51:28 AM PDT by right wing
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To: WillMalven
"For instance all persons charged with crimes are presumed to be innocent, but that doesn't mean that they are in fact innocent."

You good folks in Harris County need to get rid of this guy. He's starting to get a "messianic" complex on and you're all going to suffer. We've got one of these Texas size gun grabbers, here, in the California Senate, State Senator Jack Scott - who is BTW from Sweatwater Texas. He talks the same way about the "the guilty are many and the innocent are few". Get rid of Rosenthal while you still can.

Rosenthal's statement should be sent to the newspapers and Chuck sent packing come next election.

29 posted on 08/30/2005 8:58:02 AM PDT by elbucko
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To: right wing

Too Late, it's on the NRA-ILA webpage under Texas news.


30 posted on 08/30/2005 9:00:56 AM PDT by WillMalven (It don't matter where you are when "the bomb" goes off, as long as you can say "What was that?")
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To: WillMalven

Great... Now Chucky will start feeling the heat he deserves.


31 posted on 08/30/2005 9:02:51 AM PDT by right wing
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To: weegee; 1riot1ranger; Action-America; Aggie Mama; Alkhin; Allegra; American72; antivenom; ...

DA going agaist the will of the people ping. . .


32 posted on 08/30/2005 9:37:44 AM PDT by Flyer (---)
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To: WillMalven

Remember, this is the guy who doesn't see anything wrong with using falsified DNA evidence, hidden evidence, contaminated evidence and perjury in order to get a conviction. He is still resisting new trials or any review of cases tainted by the corrupt HPD crime lab. I don't want this guy making any decisions about which law to enforce and/or defend. I haven't voted for him lately and I don't want to wait until '08.


33 posted on 08/30/2005 9:46:24 AM PDT by FreePaul
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To: Flyer

Thanks, Flyer - I heard him on KSEV on the way to work the other day - I was shocked at what all he said.


34 posted on 08/30/2005 10:05:28 AM PDT by Txslady
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To: Flyer

Thanks, Flyer - I heard him on KSEV on the way to work the other day - I was shocked at what all he said.


35 posted on 08/30/2005 10:05:36 AM PDT by Txslady
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To: WillMalven

Do you have a link (or know the text) of the new law? I heard it was changing on September 1st so that your car is considered your home.


36 posted on 08/30/2005 10:22:12 AM PDT by Barney Gumble (Even the devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.)
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To: WillMalven; right wing; weegee; holymoly
Point is that not everyone is as judicious about gun ownership as you and your friends probably are.

No, Chuck. The point is that until people ACT injudiciously, it's none of your business. You are not authorized, by law, to judge what people theoretically might do.

37 posted on 08/30/2005 10:30:58 AM PDT by tarheelswamprat (This tagline space for rent - cheap!)
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To: Barney Gumble

Here is the newly revised law:

Texas gun travel law changes.

Section 46.15, Penal Code, is amended by adding Subsection (i) to read as follows:(i) For purposes of Subsection (b)(3), a person is presumed to be traveling if the person is:(1) in a private motor vehicle;(2) not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;(3) not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing a firearm;(4) not a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01; and(5) not carrying a handgun in plain view.


38 posted on 08/30/2005 10:32:05 AM PDT by WillMalven (It don't matter where you are when "the bomb" goes off, as long as you can say "What was that?")
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To: Eaker; Flyer; humblegunner; TheMom; Joe Brower; bang_list; Shooter 2.5; Libloather; Lurker

Ya'll fix this before I have to come down there dangit.....:o)

Aug. 30, 2005, 1:35AM



DA opposed to new handgun law
Pistol-toting drivers without a permit will still be prosecuted, Rosenthal warns
By CLAY ROBISON
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle Austin Bureau

AUSTIN - Motorists arrested for carrying pistols in their cars without a concealed handgun license will continue to be prosecuted in Houston, despite a new law that purports to give them a legal defense, Harris County District Attorney Chuck Rosenthal said Monday.



Although the sponsor said the law should reduce the number of arrests for unlawful handgun possession, Rosenthal said it won't change enforcement practices in Houston after it goes into effect on Thursday.

"It is still going to be against the law for (unlicensed) persons to carry handguns in autos," the district attorney said, adding that the new legal defense can still be challenged by prosecutors.

The new law, enacted during the regular legislative session last spring, seeks to clarify a longtime law that allowed Texans to carry handguns while traveling, a qualification that was subject to a number of inconsistent court interpretations over the years.

The new statute says a person is "presumed to be traveling" if he or she is in a private vehicle, is not engaged in criminal activity (except for a minor traffic offense), is not prohibited by any other law from possessing a firearm and is not a member of a criminal street gang.

It also requires the handgun to be concealed in the car, although weapons can be discovered by officers during routine traffic stops if a driver gives permission for a car to be searched or opens a glove compartment where a gun is secured to retrieve an insurance card or other documentation.

"The intent of the law is to keep innocent people from going to jail," said the sponsor, Rep. Terry Keel, R-Austin, a former prosecutor and former Travis County sheriff who now is a candidate for the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals.

The law, House Bill 823, was supported by the National Rifle Association and the American Civil Liberties Union and opposed by various law-enforcement groups.

More than 237,000 Texans have concealed handgun licenses. But many other law-abiding adults don't have licenses because they are disqualified by exceptions that have nothing to do with public safety, said Alice Tripp, a lobbyist for the Texas State Rifle Association, an NRA affiliate.

Tripp said people who have defaulted on student loans, who owe the state sales tax or franchise tax payments or are behind in child support payments are ineligible to receive a license.

Keel said he hoped the law will prompt police officers to think twice about arresting motorists who meet the new legal presumption and spare them the expense and "indignity" of arrest and prosecution.

Otherwise, he said, "They basically are going to arrest innocent people and make them prove their innocence."

Rosenthal and Rob Kepple, executive director of the Texas District and County Attorneys Association, disagreed.

Rosenthal said the new presumption about "traveling" doesn't define what constitutes traveling and can be challenged in court by prosecutors, leaving it to juries to decide verdicts "based upon the facts of the case."

A prosecutor could summon witnesses to successfully argue that a defendant wasn't traveling because he was simply "driving around the corner for a carton of milk," Kepple said.

"I really don't think (the law) should affect how police officers respond in arresting somebody," he added.

Houston Police Department spokeswoman Johanna Abad indicated Houston police were going to take their advice from Rosenthal's office.

Unlawful possession of a weapon is a class A misdemeanor punishable by as much as one year in county jail and a $4,000 fine. Rosenthal said most cases are resolved through plea bargains.

The prosecutor said he asked Gov. Rick Perry to veto the bill because "taking weapons off the street is a pretty good deal." He said his office handled about 5,000 weapons cases of varying degrees of severity last year.

Tripp called Rosenthal's opposition a case of "sour grapes ... and a threat to the general public."

clay.robison@chron.com


39 posted on 08/30/2005 11:26:29 AM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. )
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To: Squantos
I'd love to 'fix' this, but I live in Illinois where things are even worse.

L

40 posted on 08/30/2005 11:40:34 AM PDT by Lurker (1-866-DHS-2ICE.-Toll free and anonymous. Report illegal aliens and those who hire them.)
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To: Lurker

Oh I know ....the fix it was for the first few HAT /HOT FReepers and info for the rest of my banglist.....

Stay safe !


41 posted on 08/30/2005 11:46:01 AM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. )
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To: WillMalven
Consider this scenario.

Gee...I can't imagine a DA asking all law abiding citizens to "consider all possible scenarios"....

The criminals all disregard the laws...Mr. DA.... Duh! They aren't called DA for nothing.....

42 posted on 08/30/2005 1:06:44 PM PDT by cbkaty (I may not always post...but I am always here......)
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To: Flyer

Thanks for the ping, but I do not live in Harris County, so Rosenthal probably does not care what I think. I am still waiting on my Concealed Carry permit, but the wheels of the State Bureaucracy turn slowly.


43 posted on 08/30/2005 1:16:42 PM PDT by Sans-Culotte ("...on Earth, as it is in TEXAS")
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To: Sans-Culotte
What Chuck tries to force through the courts becomes legal precedent for all of Texas.
44 posted on 08/30/2005 5:34:38 PM PDT by weegee (The Rovebaiting by DUAC must stop. It is nothing but a partisan witchhunt.)
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To: WillMalven
"Here is the newly revised law: ...a person is presumed to be traveling if the person is:(1) in a private motor vehicle;"

Sounds pretty doggone clear to me.

45 posted on 08/30/2005 8:08:01 PM PDT by Redbob
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To: Redbob

They need to take it a step further by making the law "is traveling" instead of "presumed to be traveling".

It will be ironic if they do take it a step further with a new law because of the abuse by jerks like that.


46 posted on 09/02/2005 7:46:26 PM PDT by Hendrix
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To: Squantos
What's a "HAT /HOT FReepers"?

I've not been FReeping for a while...

One might think unemployed persons would have more time for necessities!

Watch your back;

'rat
47 posted on 09/03/2005 12:27:15 PM PDT by packrat01 (Politics:Saying "Islam is a religion of peace" while seeking final destruction of Islamist Terrorism)
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To: packrat01

Houston Area Texans......HAT

Heart of Texas ......HOT

All freepers.....:o)

Stay safe


48 posted on 09/03/2005 12:59:12 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. )
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