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BOSNIA: CROATS UP THEIR DEMANDS
AKI ^ | September 6, 2005

Posted on 09/06/2005 1:06:24 PM PDT by joan

Belgrade, 6 Sept. (AKI) - Bosnian Croats, dissatisfied with organisation of the state, demand a complete overhaul of the apparatus or their own entity, a Croat member of the collective state presidency, Ivo Miro Jovic, said on Tuesday. Croats make up around 17 per cent of and a Serb, told the Belgrade daily Politika that a decade after the Dayton accords that ended the civil war in Bosnia, the document should be revised to grant Croats equal rights with Muslims and Serbs.

Under the Dayton agreement, Bosnia was divided into two entities, the Muslim-CroatFederation and the Serb entity, Republika Srpska, with all state attributes, including parliament, government, army and police. Jovic said it was like putting three people in a room with two beds.

“In such a situation someone has to sleep on the floor, or share bed with the other person, and if that person is much bigger, then you can imagine what conditions for a good sleep you have”, said Jovic. That was, in his words, the position of Bosnian Croats, sharing power with majority Muslims.

He pointed out that for the past 15 years Croats couldn’t get the permission to build a new Catholic Church in the capital Sarajevo, while all mosques damaged in the war were reconstructed and scores of new ones were built. All local institutions, including television, were dominated by Muslims and streets were named after Muslim historical figures, leaving no room for Croats, he complained.

Jovic said Croats should have their own entity and self-rule, or the country should be organized on three government levels, with regional autonomy for each nationality, with loose ties on central level, which would comprise foreign and trade policy and monetary system. This would, according to Jovic, protect Croats and Serbs from Muslim domination.

The high representative of the international community, which safeguards peace in Bosnia, British diplomat Paddy Ashdown, has been gradually reducing powers of Republika Srpska and of the Muslim-Croat federation, and strengthening the central government structure. But Jovic, like Bosnian Serbs, said he opposed centralised government because it would give the upper hand to majority Muslims.

Jovic alleged that all of Bosnia was hostage to mujahadeen from Islamic countries, who remained in the country after the war, and wielded a strong Islamic influence on local people and institutions. “We are now all their hostages and hostages of a police which represents serious barriers on our joining European integration”, Jovic said.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: balkans; bosnia; croats; muslims

1 posted on 09/06/2005 1:06:27 PM PDT by joan
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To: Balkans

ping


2 posted on 09/06/2005 1:06:41 PM PDT by joan
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To: curiosity; right; little jeremiah; x5452; anonymoussierra; Robert Drobot; cuteconservativechick; ...
Eastern European ping list


FRmail me to be added or removed from this Eastern European ping list ping list.

3 posted on 09/06/2005 1:09:27 PM PDT by Lukasz
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To: Hoplite

Ah, the play of the Croat card in an effort to save the fading away Serb rouge entity. Will it take a trick?


4 posted on 09/06/2005 1:11:47 PM PDT by Torie
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To: joan
He pointed out that for the past 15 years Croats couldn’t get the permission to build a new Catholic Church in the capital Sarajevo, while all mosques damaged in the war were reconstructed and scores of new ones were built.

I’m curious what is "mighty" Paddy opinion on that?

5 posted on 09/06/2005 1:13:43 PM PDT by Lukasz
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To: Torie

This is an Italian news source (AKI) and it is the Croats who are making the news. It just was turned up in a search - actually "Destro" sent me this article to post (as they won't let him post here anymore - 'tis sad).


6 posted on 09/06/2005 1:14:42 PM PDT by joan
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To: joan

clinton Legacy Bump!

Once again those close to clinton get screwed!

Through their own stupidity the Bosian Croats trusted clinton and Tudjman, threw in with the Muslims and are left holding the bag!


7 posted on 09/06/2005 1:14:52 PM PDT by F-117A
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To: Lukasz

Croats equal rights with Muslims and Serbs

The Serbs = Christians
The Muslims = ??
The Croats = Muslims

Something must be getting lost in the translation. The Croats ar muslims correct?


8 posted on 09/06/2005 1:19:51 PM PDT by edcoil (Reality doesn't say much - doesn't need too)
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To: edcoil

The Croats are Catholics. The Muslims in Bosnia, they are Slavs (Croats and Serbs) converted by the Turks.


9 posted on 09/06/2005 1:23:46 PM PDT by Lukasz
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To: joan
"He pointed out that for the past 15 years Croats couldn’t get the permission to build a new Catholic Church in the capital Sarajevo, while all mosques damaged in the war were reconstructed and scores of new ones were built. All local institutions, including television, were dominated by Muslims "

What a surprise. Muslims behaving like Muslims. They are lucky they aren't killing them yet.
10 posted on 09/06/2005 1:23:47 PM PDT by monday
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To: edcoil

No, Croats would not be Muslims. Mostly Catholic I would've thought.


11 posted on 09/06/2005 1:25:31 PM PDT by Canard
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To: edcoil

The Serbs = Orthodox Christians
The Muslims = call themselves "Bosniaks"
The Croats = Catholics


12 posted on 09/06/2005 1:26:34 PM PDT by joan
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To: edcoil

"The Serbs = Christians
The Muslims = ??
The Croats = Muslims"

No.. It is like this.

Serbs = Orthodox
Croats = Catholics
Muslims = Terrorists


13 posted on 09/06/2005 1:27:23 PM PDT by monday
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To: joan
"The high representative of the international community, which safeguards peace in Bosnia, British diplomat Paddy Ashdown, has been gradually reducing powers of Republika Srpska and of the Muslim-Croat federation, and strengthening the central government structure."

Genius if your objective is to create conditions of permanent oppression and civil war in Bosnia. Some people simply CANNOT live peacefully with each other. Serbs Croats and Muslims for instance. They need to be separated permanently instead of being forced together. Paddy Ashdown is either a moron or a cunningly evil SOB.
14 posted on 09/06/2005 1:34:21 PM PDT by monday
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To: monday
"cunningly evil SOB"

Just last week it was revealed he had been/is a spy, and he isn't the only one:

Ashdown 'was M16 secret agent'

Sep 1 2005

Lord Paddy Ashdown, currently the top international administrator in Bosnia, was an agent for the British MI6 secret service in the 1970s, according to a report published on the internet and picked up by Bosnian newspapers.

The former Liberal Democrat leader's name was among 276 alleged MI6 agents identified by the Web site Crytome.org, which said he worked for the secret service while based in Geneva in 1974.

The information was reported by the Oslobodjenje and Dnevni Avaz newspapers on today.

Ashdown's spokesman, Mario Brkic, declined comment "on such speculation."

Ashdown took over the duties of the top international administrator in Bosnia - the High Representative of the International Community - in May 2002.

Ashdown has wide powers in the country, and can impose laws and fire local politicians as high as presidents of the country if he feels they are obstructing Bosnia's peace.

The Cryptome list also includes the former head of Ashdown's public relations office, Julian Braithwaite, stating that he was an MI6 agent in Sarajevo in 2002.

A spokesman for Britain's Foreign Office said the government had a policy of neither confirming nor denying whether any individual works in intelligence, in order to protect those who do.

"The posting of these names is highly irresponsible," the spokesman said. While he would not comment on Cryptome.org's naming of Ashdown, he said the website's lists were often "highly inaccurate."

15 posted on 09/06/2005 1:41:56 PM PDT by joan
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To: Torie
It seems to me that Banja Luka, come hell or high water, will be chivvied into accepting Police reform so that Bosnia can enter both the EU and NATO.

Which makes Jovic's stated desire for a Croat entity nothing but empty calorie soundbites produced for local consumption, as far as I can tell.

16 posted on 09/06/2005 1:44:21 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Lukasz
Just like the good old days of the Ottoman Empire...the Christians were second-class citizens ("rayah") who couldn't build a church without permission of the authorities.

Nobel Prize winning author Ivo Andric was a Bosnian Croat by birth (although he lived the latter decades of his life in Belgrade). His novel The Bridge on the Drina does a good job of depicting the different groups in Bosnia under Turkish rule. It is structured like one of James Michener's historical novels, jumping from one historical period to another but staying focused on the same town in Bosnia.

17 posted on 09/06/2005 1:46:39 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Verginius Rufus

Why does Bosnia even exsist as a state?


18 posted on 09/06/2005 2:42:30 PM PDT by John Will
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To: John Will
Why does Bosnia even exist as a state?

Historical accident. One could ask the same question about Belgium, Austria, Iraq, Jordan, Canada, most of the Central American and South American republics, and most of the countries in Africa.

The Bosnian Muslims and Bosnian Catholics don't want to be part of Serbia. The Bosnian Orthodox and the Bosnian Muslims don't want to be part of Croatia. The Bosnian Orthodox and Bosnian Catholics, for the most part, would rather be part of Serbia or Croatia, respectively, than under the Bosnian Muslims. The previous set-up was no decent solution. The current set-up is no decent solution. There is no good solution.

19 posted on 09/06/2005 3:50:48 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: joan
Better to attach the Croat and Serb areas of Bosnia to Croatia and Serbia respectively. The borders of Bosnia reflect provincial boundaries of the Hapsburg and Ottoman Empires, not demographic reality. The history of Christian minorities in Muslim nations is rather grim. Islam does not work or play well with others.
20 posted on 09/06/2005 7:08:12 PM PDT by fallujah-nuker (Daimler Chrysler's ride is fly, so I won't buy)
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To: fallujah-nuker
Better to attach the Croat and Serb areas of Bosnia to Croatia and Serbia respectively. The borders of Bosnia reflect provincial boundaries of the Hapsburg and Ottoman Empires, not demographic reality.

Correct and well said.

21 posted on 09/07/2005 11:51:13 AM PDT by bob808
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To: Torie

If “Croat card” does not do the trick maybe this will help –some of the articles posted on this site!

Bosnia & Herzegovina Proposes as New Ambassador to the US Woman with Strong Links to Islamist Terrorism Defense & Foreign Affairs May 04, 2005

Attack on Italy within 6 months

Bosnian Muslim border officer suspected of killing Serb colleague

Jihadists Find Convenient Base in Bosnia

Weapons from muslim Bosnia to be used during the funereal of John Paul II

Saudi Arabia issues New list of wanted terrorist suspects

London bombing explosive traced to Balkan Muslim extremists

Germany expels three suspected Islamic extremists (Bosnians & a Moroccan)


22 posted on 09/07/2005 8:11:42 PM PDT by zagor-te-nej (http://emperors-clothes.com/sreb/mem.htm)
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To: monday

He is MI-6 spy and failed English politician caught cheating on his wife. Several years ago he was employed by Karadzic to promote Serbian interests. Then he switched sides - I guess muslim paying more. For his services he even got cottage by the Jablanica lake and hunting lodge in central Bosnia. He said he is planning to sell cottage and bay mountain cabin.
In 2001 he was member of the board for the International Crisis Group. He was in the good company with likes of George Soros and Wesley Clark. Recently, they removed his name – I guess it was too obvious.


23 posted on 09/07/2005 8:24:37 PM PDT by zagor-te-nej (http://emperors-clothes.com/sreb/mem.htm)
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To: Verginius Rufus; John Will

You should not confuse religion with ethnicity. Catholic Encyclopedia is very clear:

Excluding some 30,000 Albanians living in the south-east, the Jews who emigrated in earlier times from Spain, a few Osmanli Turks, the merchants, officials. and Austrian troops, the rest of the population (about 98 per cent) belong to the southern Slavonic people, the Serbs.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02694a.htm

Andric was born in Roman-Catholic family but he considered himself a Serb for the most of his adult life. His work and his last will are very clear.


24 posted on 09/07/2005 8:32:34 PM PDT by zagor-te-nej (http://emperors-clothes.com/sreb/mem.htm)
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To: joan

The Croats told the Serbs, "We've upped our demands."
The Serbs told the Croats, "Up yours."


25 posted on 09/07/2005 8:37:46 PM PDT by RichInOC ("The coffee is strong at Cafe du Monde, the doughnuts are too hot to touch..." Save the Big Greasy!)
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To: zagor-te-nej
That is a very old article, from before WWI. They treat all the people who speak "Serbo-Croatian" in Bosnia as Serbs, but I don't think you would ever have found the Muslims of Bosnia or the Catholics of Bosnia identifying themselves as Serbs because Serbian identity is so closely associated with Orthodox Christianity.

In the early 20th century, both the Serbs and the Croats of Bosnia claimed the Muslims as part of their ethnic group--eventually the Tito regime created a new ethnic category for the Bosnian Muslims. In earlier times when the peasants were illiterate and nationalism had not spread to that area, a lot of Bosnians may not have identified themselves as Serbs or Croats but only by religion.

I knew that in his last 30 years Andric did not identify with the Bosnian Croats but had not heard that he called himself a Serb...there were a lot of people in Yugoslavia who avoided picking an ethnic group and just called themselves "Yugoslavs."

26 posted on 09/08/2005 5:55:47 AM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Verginius Rufus

Rest assured that Vatican knows ethnicity of people it is dealing with. And usual way Pope was dealing with “Bosnians” for more then millennium was crusade:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/9892/bhhisto.html

Historically Bosnian “Croats” and “Muslim” are Serbs. They know their ancestors yield, converted and accepted religion of their oppressors - Islam and Roman-Catholicism. That’s big part of why so many of them hate those who did not capitulate and stayed Orthodox so much. Their origin is Serbian - they are just not ready to accept that.
I am fine with that and I accept their decision. At same time I recognize the truth, the same truth that best of “Croats” and “Muslim” were aware of. Take for example Mehmed Selimovic one of the greatest 20th century novelists of Southeastern Europe.

I descend from a Muslim family, from Bosnia, and by nationality I am a Serb. I belong to Serbian literature, while the literature of Bosnia, to which I also belong, I consider only as my geographic literature center, and not a distinct literature of Serbo-Croatian language... I belong, so, to the same nation and literature of Vuk, Matavulj, Stevan Sremac, Borisav Stankovic, Petar Kocic, Ivo Andric, and my deepest kinship with them I don't need to prove
http://www.answers.com/topic/mesa-selimovic

Who the heck I am to correct one Selimovic, or Andric?


27 posted on 09/08/2005 10:05:01 PM PDT by zagor-te-nej (http://emperors-clothes.com/sreb/mem.htm)
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To: Verginius Rufus

Some historic facts on Serb Land of Bosnia

http://members.tripod.com/cafehome/serbdom-eng.htm

http://www.srpska-mreza.com/History/pre-wwOne/Bosnian-Serbs.html


28 posted on 09/08/2005 10:11:17 PM PDT by zagor-te-nej (http://emperors-clothes.com/sreb/mem.htm)
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