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Lincoln holiday on its way out (West Virginia)
West Virginia Gazette Mail ^ | 9-8-2005 | Phil Kabler

Posted on 09/10/2005 4:46:12 AM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo

Lincoln holiday on its way out

By Phil Kabler Staff writer

A bill to combine state holidays for Washington and Lincoln’s birthdays into a single Presidents’ Day holiday cleared its first legislative committee Wednesday, over objections from Senate Republicans who said it besmirches Abraham Lincoln’s role in helping establish West Virginia as a state.

Senate Government Organization Committee members rejected several attempts to retain Lincoln’s birthday as a state holiday.

State Sen. Russ Weeks, R-Raleigh, introduced an amendment to instead eliminate Columbus Day as a paid state holiday. “Columbus didn’t have anything to do with making West Virginia a state,” he said. “If we have to cut one, let’s cut Christopher Columbus.”

Jim Pitrolo, legislative director for Gov. Joe Manchin, said the proposed merger of the two holidays would bring West Virginia in line with federal holidays, and would effectively save $4.6 million a year — the cost of one day’s pay to state workers.

Government Organization Chairman Ed Bowman, D-Hancock, said the overall savings would be even greater, since by law, county and municipal governments must give their employees the same paid holidays as state government.

“To the taxpayers, the savings will be even larger,” he said.

The bill technically trades the February holiday for a new holiday on the Friday after Thanksgiving. For years, though, governors have given state employees that day off with pay by proclamation.

Sen. Sarah Minear, R-Tucker, who also objected to eliminating Lincoln’s birthday as a holiday, argued that it was misleading to suggest that eliminating the holiday will save the state money.

“It’s not going to save the state a dime,” said Minear, who said she isn’t giving up on retaining the Lincoln holiday.

Committee members also rejected an amendment by Sen. Steve Harrison, R-Kanawha, to recognize the Friday after Thanksgiving as “Lincoln Day.”

“I do believe President Lincoln has a special place in the history of West Virginia,” he said.

Sen. Randy White, D-Webster, said he believed that would create confusion.

“It’s confusing to me,” he said.

Senate Judiciary Chairman Jeff Kessler, D-Marshall, suggested that the state could recognize Lincoln’s proclamation creating West Virginia as part of the June 20 state holiday observance for the state’s birthday.

Proponents of the measure to eliminate a state holiday contend that the numerous paid holidays - as many as 14 in election years — contribute to inefficiencies in state government.

To contact staff writer Phil Kabler, use e-mail or call 348-1220.


TOPICS: Government; US: West Virginia
KEYWORDS: abelincoln; lincoln; sorrydemocrats; westvirginia
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To: Heyworth; Non-Sequitur; mac_truck

Thanks, but I can't see anything about imports, broken down by region. It does mention coastal shipping. Pea Ridge would have us believe that while the South exported directly from New Orleans, Savannah, and other southern ports, it imported everything via ports in the North, then sent it all South by coastal steamer.

That is ridiculous, and goes to show the lengths to which neo-Confederates will go to support their fantasies.


701 posted on 09/30/2005 3:26:08 PM PDT by Grand Old Partisan
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To: PeaRidge; Grand Old Partisan; Non-Sequitur; Heyworth
[GOP]Why in the world would imports destined for, say Georgia, go overland from Boston rather than be delivered to the perfectly good ports in Georgia?

[Pea] They didn't. They largely went by water.

Regardless of their method of transport South, imports from Europe were unloaded in Northern ports first, stored, then loaded again on smaller transports for delivery to Southern ports. [note: this extra handling was not done for free]

If Southerners really were responsible for so much of the product imported into the United States and by extension the tariffs on them, why weren't the imports shipped directly to them in the South? Seems like ol Pea ducked the question [again].

702 posted on 09/30/2005 5:31:30 PM PDT by mac_truck (Aide toi et dieu l’aidera)
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To: mac_truck; PeaRidge; Grand Old Partisan; Heyworth

One would think that point of entry would depend on where the demand was. If 91% of all imports are consumed by southerners then why weren't those imports routed to Charleston and New Orleans instead of New York and Boston. Economics would dictate that, if nothing else. Millions of bales of cotton were exported from southern ports but very little imported there. Why were all those ships arriving to load up on cotton coming empty? Why weren't they loaded with all those imports for southern consumers?


703 posted on 09/30/2005 5:39:29 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: 4CJ
"That's your hero - mass murderer, a white supremacist - Sherman [*SPIT*]. It speaks volumes that you venerate the man.

In terms of being "a mass murderer, a white supremacist" you neo-confederates should love the guy, after all your heroes are the likes of the founders of the KKK in the post Civil War era, the pro-Confederate, cowardly, murdering assassin of President Lincoln, plus of course the South's 'former' leading racial segregationists, such as the fire eating lunatic Edmund Ruffin, who did America a big favour by removing himself off the planet since he could not function without his slaves.

My bottom line is General Sherman was instrumental in defeating the biggest domestic threat to freedom in America during the mid 19th century, your hero's - the Confederate insurrectionists.

Let's face it, the way Sherman men torched the Cradle of Secession & Insurrection, (South Carolina), was a sight to see. Those massive cotton plantation manors were great for roasting marshmallows. "The Fiery Trail" (Orangeburgh and Columbia) was payback for that state's starting the Civil War.

"Boys this is old South Carolina, lets give her Hell"

In South Carolina cotton was just as much god as "King". Because of its large planter population and clout, South Carolina would require many slaves to keep the economy going. This would of course make the state a rabid defender of the institution of Slavery. South Carolina's upper class therefore became completely unwary of any attempt that might end the practice.

Since South Carolina was the first state to begin the secession of the Southern States and the first to "start the war" (by firing on Federal Fort Sumter), Sherman made South Carolina a focal point for payback plus. South Carolina in Sherman's eyes had brought forth civil war on the country. In Sherman's mind those Southern wealthy 'gentlemen' from the planter states had used their paranoia to bring forth a war that had torn apart his nation and killed hundreds of thousands of his country men.

"General Sherman's army passed through this place. We will fight until every rebel is slain unless they will lay down their arms and come back in to the Union under the old Constitution. South Carolina was the root of Secession. The south are to blame for this war and none others. Why did not the Southern States wait and see whether A. Lincoln would interfere with slavery before they seceded." A federal Solider's words left in a court clerk's office in Bennetsville, SC.

"South Carolina cried out the first for war and she shall have it to her hearts content. She sowed the wind and she shall reap the whirlwind". An Iowa soldier at Savannah.

"One thing for certain S Carolina is about to feel the Iron Hand of War placed on her and it will be no gentle manner, all soldiers know that it was the birth place of dark treason and we will make it the death place of some Traitors". Illinois Cavalry trooper.

"I have never burnt a house down yet, but if we go into South Carolina I will burn some down if I can get the chance." Federal soldier

"The thousands of homes she has filled with mourning, the unnumbered hearts she has wrung with anguish, are all witnesses of the justice of her punishment. Let her drink the cup she has brewed, and lie on the bed she has made." A federal Chaplain regarding South Carolina.

"I suppose; in fact I know, that in the course of this army in South Carolina will be severely condemned by many in the North. If you hear any condemning us for what we have done, tell them for me and for Sherman's army, that 'we found here the authors of all the calamities that have befallen this nation and the men and women whose hands are red with all the innocent blood that has been shed in this war, and that their punishment is light when compared with what justice demanded." Ohio Officer in Sherman's army

"Today commences the destruction of SC and we gave her a good initiation". Wisconsin officer

Sherman's March to the Sea was a reward for his brave troops since at the end of the glorious March was a day at the beach :)

"You Cannot judge war in Harsher terms then I will. War is Cruelty and you cannot refine it, and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out." Union General William Tecumseh Sherman

"South Carolina is reaping at last the consequence of her treason..." George W. Pepper, speaking of the Burning of Columbia, South Carolina.

I would tell you to go fly a kite, but in your case the banner of rebellion will do.

704 posted on 09/30/2005 6:54:57 PM PDT by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free)
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To: Gianni

Shame, this old boy is still fighting the war in his mind. Liberalism is a sickness.


705 posted on 09/30/2005 8:15:29 PM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: M. Espinola
Don't mention it chump, it goes double for all anti-American, neo-confederate cultists.

FYI, in case you missed it in the papers: Confederates were Americans.

Those of us who chose to show respect for Americans past can take all the abuse you'd like to dish out, Mr "I wish y'all were dead," knowing that we are not the ones in the wrong. Those of you who choose to incessantly berate the Confederates show not only disrespect for them, but also for their ideological forerunners (Jefferson, Henry, Lee, et al), and the small-government conservatives of today.

And if that isn't rediculous enough, you hold agreement with your rediculous notion of a solidified Union held together at the point of a bayonet as a litmus test for patriotism. Real American of you.

706 posted on 10/01/2005 5:01:48 AM PDT by Gianni
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To: mac_truck
In other words Lee accomplished his strategic objectives during the Seven Days Battles even though he suffered a series of tactical defeats throughout, is that right Professore?

It appears we're in agreement about everything but the semantics. It has been largely held that Lee was the most capable field commander of the war. I would, then, place him in the category of a tactical commander, as he was planning defeat for his enemies on a battle-by-battle basis. My notion for a strategic commander is someone who, today, resides at the pentagon and maps the larger picture of the war, leaving the tactical detail of specific conquest to the field commander.

In the latter sense, Lee came up short; his failed invasin of Pennsylvania was a disaster for the Confederacy. On the other hand, Lee's failure in any given battle seems to be preceeded by some instance of gross incompetence among his subordinates sabotaging the overall battle plan.

707 posted on 10/01/2005 5:07:50 AM PDT by Gianni
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To: Non-Sequitur; PeaRidge
Since we can safely say that the imports destined for southern consumers dropped to zero, then can we agree that all tariffs income was collected on imports destined for Northern consumers?

"Safely" in the sense that you can say it without danger to life or limb, but not in the sense that it is correct.

708 posted on 10/01/2005 5:09:40 AM PDT by Gianni
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To: PeaRidge

Simply shocking how many far-eastern imports those folks in Seattle go through, ain't it?


709 posted on 10/01/2005 5:11:43 AM PDT by Gianni
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To: Grand Old Partisan
There is no link named "Historical Documents" on that page. Please post a link to the website you cite, rather than lead me, inaccurately, on a chase.

C'mon, Lucy, at least three of us read The Reward of Patriotism on a snipe-hunt courtesy of you.

710 posted on 10/01/2005 5:19:01 AM PDT by Gianni
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To: Gianni
"Safely" in the sense that you can say it without danger to life or limb, but not in the sense that it is correct.

Oh really? Then please present your statistics showing the level of imports destined for southern consumers landing in Northern ports during 1862 and 1863. Pea claims it was $331 million for 1860. How much was it 2 or 3 years later?

711 posted on 10/01/2005 5:59:22 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: stainlessbanner
Liberalism is a sickness.

It never fails to amaze me how you can equate opposition to the southern rebellion with being a liberal, especially given the socialistic tendencies of the Davis regime. It would seem to me that it would be his supporters who were the liberals.

712 posted on 10/01/2005 6:01:02 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur; stainlessbanner

Slavery is the biggest Big Government program there is. And, the Confederate government was very socialist, with wage and price controls, internal passports, government-owned industries, rationing, production and delivery directives to private industry, bans on most imports, and on and on.


713 posted on 10/01/2005 6:14:16 AM PDT by Grand Old Partisan
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To: Heyworth; PeaRidge; Non-Sequitur

Don't forget that a thid of the southern population were slaves or the nearly-slave fee blacks, whose total imports amounted to zilch, so according to Pea Ridge imports by southern whites were at least 50 times per capita the imports of northerners in 1860.

Pea Ridge's fantasies all stem from his desire to fool us into believing that a need for southern tariff revenues was one of President Lincoln's reasons for opposing the Confederacy. As is obvious, southern tariff revenue was less than 10% of total tariff revenue. While the South did most of the exporting, it imported very little -- and on imports tariffs are assessed.


714 posted on 10/01/2005 6:21:13 AM PDT by Grand Old Partisan
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To: M. Espinola

Great quotes. Thanks for posting them.


715 posted on 10/01/2005 8:05:13 AM PDT by mac_truck (Aide toi et dieu l’aidera)
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To: Gianni
"FYI, in case you missed it in the papers: Confederates were Americans."

Emphasis on the "were" the second they plunged into their sedition & insurrection against the United States government and her citizens. You recall that, it was 1861 and it was gone with the wind by mid-1865.

"Those of us who chose to show respect for Americans past can take all the abuse you'd like to dish out, Mr "I wish y'all were dead,"

Do you feel abused, isolated, maybe even rejected? Your breaking my heart...

"knowing that we are not the ones in the wrong."

Whose "we" chump? Since when were you correct on anything?

"Those of you who choose to incessantly berate the Confederates show not only disrespect for them.."

Once again you forgot about the 'neo' as in neo-confederate. As far as any disrespect for cult worshiping anti-American malcontents in a perpetual state of rebellion, I am glad you catch on so quickly.

"Real American of you."

Don't mention it.

716 posted on 10/01/2005 8:25:49 AM PDT by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free)
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To: mac_truck
This quote bears repeating :)

"South Carolina is reaping at last the consequence of her treason..." George W. Pepper, speaking of the Burning of Columbia, South Carolina.

717 posted on 10/01/2005 8:35:53 AM PDT by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free)
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To: Gianni
It appears we're in agreement about everything but the semantics.

Well, lets see. You said that Lee devised a plan of battle for the Seven Days that was "horribly executed". You also said that Lee's "failed invasion" of Pennsylvania was a "disaster for the Confederacy".

I'd say we're in total agreement. Lee was a great strategic planner, but he sucked as a tactical commander.

Lee's failure in any given battle seems to be preceeded by some instance of gross incompetence among his subordinates sabotaging the overall battle plan.

If Lee wished to blame subordinates for his own shortcomings, so be it. Others however, would point out that Lee's inability to adjust his battle plans accordingly was one of his biggest flaws as a tactical commander.

Cheers.

718 posted on 10/01/2005 8:42:51 AM PDT by mac_truck (Aide toi et dieu l’aidera)
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To: PeaRidge
he information is in the US Treasury Report section of President Buchanan's Message and Documents also known as the State of the Union speech. It requires some research.

I've posted the document you've cited for all to see. Please point to where it says what you've repeatedly claimed it says. Page and column will do.

719 posted on 10/01/2005 12:10:58 PM PDT by Heyworth
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To: Grand Old Partisan; Non-Sequitur
And, the Confederate U.S. government was very socialist, with wage and price controls, internal passports, government-owned industries, rationing, production and delivery directives to private industry, bans on most imports, and on and on.
720 posted on 10/01/2005 8:17:11 PM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: stainlessbanner
We realize how difficult truth in reposting is for those still defending the cotton planting slaveocracy, but no matter how you attempt to spin it, the cradle of rebellion & civil insurrection was forever defeated.

Any feeble attempts to once again inflict such a diabolical curse on the land, as the 'Confederacy' shall always be totally rejected & countered by the overwhelming majority of loyal American citizens.

In relation to your twisting "Grand Old Partisan" original statement on your "heroes", let's review the original truthful statement, not your sick lies.

"Slavery is the biggest Big Government program there is. And, the Confederate government was very socialist, with wage and price controls, internal passports, government-owned industries, rationing, production and delivery directives to private industry, bans on most imports, and on and on."

It's amazing to watch you modern day confederate apologists forever dribbling out your historical inventions relating to the Civil War and the Jim Crow era - also gone with the wind.

721 posted on 10/02/2005 1:32:43 AM PDT by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free)
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To: mac_truck
Others however, would point out that Lee's inability to adjust his battle plans accordingly was one of his biggest flaws as a tactical commander.

Inability or unwillingness, I'm not sure it mattered. The man was stubbornly insistent that the plan was good. There seems to be a consensus that the South was defeated by their backward economy and lack of resources/men, rather than the incompetence of the high command. There are examples of poor leaders, but Lee should not be placed among them.

722 posted on 10/02/2005 3:30:26 AM PDT by Gianni
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To: stainlessbanner
And, the Confederate U.S. government was very socialist, with wage and price controls, internal passports, government-owned industries, rationing, production and delivery directives to private industry, bans on most imports, and on and on.

The facts show that you're 180 degrees off in that claim.

723 posted on 10/02/2005 3:39:29 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur; PeaRidge
Oh really? Then please present your statistics showing the level of imports destined for southern consumers landing in Northern ports during 1862 and 1863. Pea claims it was $331 million for 1860. How much was it 2 or 3 years later?

Per your original statement:

Since we can safely say that the imports destined for southern consumers dropped to zero,

It is sufficient to demonstrate that they were non-zero.

Some time ago, GOPCapitalist posted a record of interstate smuggling activity during the ACW. I remember it well, as it led to a discussion about what scumbags brokers & bankers were, and how they'd betray any loyalties for a buck. The numbers were actually quite surprising.

724 posted on 10/02/2005 3:40:47 AM PDT by Gianni
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To: DeeOhGee

good point, they have the most in common. Amen.


725 posted on 10/02/2005 3:52:07 AM PDT by gakrak ("A wise man's heart is his right hand, But a fool's heart is at his left" Eccl 10:2)
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To: Non-Sequitur; stainlessbanner
It never fails to amaze me how you can equate opposition to the southern rebellion with being a liberal,

I think it's more like equating support for invasion of the states to big-government. Dangerous in any hands, don't you think?

Now, I'm not sure that wishing fellow Americans were dead flows along political lines, but certainly the people who do so are worthy of contempt by those of us who agree that it takes all kinds.

726 posted on 10/02/2005 3:54:40 AM PDT by Gianni
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To: Grand Old Partisan; Non-Sequitur; PeaRidge
While the South did most of the exporting, it imported very little -- and on imports tariffs are assessed.

Certainly, Non, you can agree that this falls into the category of liberal claptrap.

727 posted on 10/02/2005 3:57:07 AM PDT by Gianni
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To: Gianni
Some time ago, GOPCapitalist posted a record of interstate smuggling activity during the ACW. I remember it well, as it led to a discussion about what scumbags brokers & bankers were, and how they'd betray any loyalties for a buck. The numbers were actually quite surprising.

What you're overlooking is that those imports were destined for a Northern consumer and that the Northern party paid the tariff. What little was later smuggled south doesn't affect that.

728 posted on 10/02/2005 4:00:13 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Gianni
I think it's more like equating support for invasion of the states to big-government. Dangerous in any hands, don't you think?

Except that there was no invasion. You don't invade your own country.

729 posted on 10/02/2005 4:01:38 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Gianni
Certainly, Non, you can agree that this falls into the category of liberal claptrap.

I very seldom find anything of your's that I can agree with. So what was it that the south imported in such massive amounts that they accounted for as much as 91% of all imports, as Pea claims?

730 posted on 10/02/2005 4:03:07 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: M. Espinola
Emphasis on the "were" the second they plunged into their sedition & insurrection against the United States government and her citizens.

FYI, in Civil War, the Confederates remained Americans throughout. Disagreement with that is disagreement with St Abe and his crew of lackeys who later proclaimed it to be such via the various SCOTUS cases involving the name White. It is not our respect for the Confederates that divides America, but your seething hatred of them.

Do you feel abused, isolated, maybe even rejected?

I feel pride, knowing that my conservatism is suported on a strong ideological base and a love for all Americans; not love of money.

Whose "we" chump? Since when were you correct on anything?

Read the thread, genius. I'm not the one leaping into petty name-calling and wishing people were dead. Maybe if y'all would stop losing your cool, you could hold together a decent argument.

As far as any disrespect for cult worshiping anti-American malcontents in a perpetual state of rebellion,

Calling M. Espinola to the carpet:

What cult do I worship?

What rebellious activities have I engaged in?

731 posted on 10/02/2005 4:09:06 AM PDT by Gianni
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To: Non-Sequitur; M. Espinola
What you're overlooking is that those imports were destined for a Northern consumer and that the Northern party paid the tariff.

Mornin' Non.

I doubt even Robert Reich would believe that the broker ate the cost of the tariff out of the goodness of his heart, even during peacetime; smuggled goods would be exponentially more expensive due to the risk involved in transport. He might carry out the physical act of paying the tariff, but if he does not incur the cost, the tariff is not adversely affecting him.

I suppose we could ask a 'real life' broker whether or not he happily eats overhead costs...

732 posted on 10/02/2005 4:15:50 AM PDT by Gianni
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To: Non-Sequitur
Let's not change the subject:

[Partisan] While the South did most of the exporting, it imported very little -- and on imports tariffs are assessed.

Do you, Non, believe that you can unilaterally affect imports without impacting exports? Or is this statement by our midwestern friend liberal claptrap.

733 posted on 10/02/2005 4:18:48 AM PDT by Gianni
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To: Non-Sequitur
You don't invade your own country.

Always at the heart of our little spats, this cannot be assumed.

Too early to remember, but did Lincoln use the word invasion in the call for 75,000 men?

734 posted on 10/02/2005 4:21:16 AM PDT by Gianni
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To: Gianni
Too early to remember, but did Lincoln use the word invasion in the call for 75,000 men?

No he did not. Link

735 posted on 10/02/2005 4:49:09 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Gianni
Do you, Non, believe that you can unilaterally affect imports without impacting exports? Or is this statement by our midwestern friend liberal claptrap.

Let's get back to the original question, which you're avoiding. What did the south import in such massive quantities that they accounted for upwards of 91% of all imports? It's a simple question, how about an answer?

As to your non-related question, there is no doubt that prior to the rebellion the south accounted for the overwhelming majority of all U.S. exports. During the course of the rebellion, and for many years following, the southern exports of cotton and tobacco and naval stores was almost non-existant. By your reasoning, U.S. trade should have disappeared, tariff income should have dropped to nothing. It did not. Tariff revenues by the middle of the rebellion were higher than in the year prior to the rebellion. Trade following the rebellion grew in spite of losing the cotton exports. All inspite of tariff rates higher than in the 1850s and which increased constantly in the decades following the rebellion. This seems to fly in the face of your claims that all trade rose and fell on southern imports, and that increases in tariffs decreased trade.

736 posted on 10/02/2005 4:59:32 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur
Thanks, for some reason I couldn't remember if the government call for volunteers contained the word invasion, or if that was something that stemmed from newspaper editorials. One thing was sure - at that point both parties were on the march toward an unstoppable war.

I think I'm gonna shower, get some churchin' done, then watch my Viqueens loose horribly to Vick & Co down in Atlanta. Here's hoping you've got better plans for the day.

737 posted on 10/02/2005 4:59:50 AM PDT by Gianni
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To: Gianni
"Calling M. Espinola to the carpet:"

I'm game, but require knowing first off if this is the official 'red carpet'? What is the proper attire protocol, tuxedo or suit & tie? These are extremely important factors. Once data is supplied, answers on your other two questions can be responded to in quick order.

Naturally it is not your desire my appearance be out of place for this extraordinary special occasion on being called on the one and only 'red carpet'.

Proper attire protocol is a prerequisite. I surely expect the same from you. One's must always look his absolute best when called on the 'red carpet. Undoubtedly you do agree? If so, you may proceed Sir.

The official 'red carpet'

738 posted on 10/02/2005 7:42:19 AM PDT by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free)
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To: Non-Sequitur; Gianni
Lincoln wrote,'Whereas the laws of the United States have been for some time past, and now are opposed, and the execution thereof obstructed, in the States of South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana and Texas, by combinations too powerful to be suppressed by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, or by the powers vested in the Marshals by law...'

Regardless of the verbage used by Lincoln, it was illegal. I also find it insane that Lincoln complains and resorts to military force when judicial proceedings or Marshalls are ineffective, yet it was Lincoln that interfered with such repeatedly - refusing to abide by decisions, jailing or placing in house arrest justices and even their wives.

When three northen states refused to supply troops in the War of 1812 as demanded by Madison, the US did not invade the states. When SC nullified the tariff of 1832, no army mached into the the state to force compliance. When the state of Georgia refused to appear in court (Chisholm v. Georgia) in 1792, and ruled that any officer in Georgia attempting to comply with the decision would be put to death, no miltitary force invaded the state. Over the years, when 10 northern states refused to return slaves or fugitives from justice, no army invaded the states. When the State of Wisconsin made it clear that she would never abide by Constitutional requirements, no military was called forth.

Per the US Supreme Court, if the US disagreed with the acts of a state, it was up to the US Government to seek redress in a court of law:

[C]ontroversies as to the respective powers of the United States and the States, instead of being determined by military and physical force, are heard, investigated, and finally settled, with the calmness and deliberation of judicial inquiry. And no one can fail to see, that if such an arbiter had not been provided, in our complicated system of government, internal tranquillity could not have been preserved; and if such controversies were left to arbitrament of physical force, our Government, State and National, would soon cease to be Governments of laws, and revolutions by force of arms would take the place of courts of justice and judicial decisions.
Chief Justice Taney, Ableman v Booth, 62 How. 506, 521(1858)[unanimous opinion]

739 posted on 10/02/2005 11:28:51 AM PDT by 4CJ (Tu ne cede malis!)
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To: M. Espinola
n terms of being "a mass murderer, a white supremacist" you neo-confederates should love the guy

I make my sentiments known about Sherman [*SPIT*] every time I write his name. A racist white supremacist, that desired a union of yankees alone - without blacks, without Southerners, without Native Americans. He favoured the extermination of every single Southerer, and you APPLAUD the wanton destruction of civilians and their properties, and agree with his methods. Bin Laden and Islamic terrorists have a similar hatred and methodology. He's YOUR Hero - you have made that abundantly clear.

740 posted on 10/02/2005 11:48:32 AM PDT by 4CJ (Tu ne cede malis!)
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To: PeaRidge
What makes you think they stayed there?

What they are looking for is a simple one line statement, analysis is beyod them. Please forgive those ignorant of economics, Warehousing Acts etc. Per their understanding, ships would sail from England to EVERY American port to deliver goods, and those without ports would never receive an import. They believe that it's economically cheaper to sail a thousand miles further to deliver goods, that foreign suppliers were not seeking quick turnarounds.

They also cannot comprehend the fact that imports dropped with the secessions, and products previously supplied by the southern states would now have to be imported causing imports to increase in 1862. They believe that that importers eat that tariff (in some cases up to 62% of the price), that the tariff is not passed on to the consumer, nor do they understand that tariffs REDUCE profits to foreign suppliers, and that due to the REDUCED profits, US exporters receive LESS revenue from those same foreign suppliers purchase American products.

741 posted on 10/02/2005 12:05:16 PM PDT by 4CJ (Tu ne cede malis!)
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To: 4CJ
General Sherman may have had some of the characteristics you declare, but in relation to those you champion, however Sherman did not sell out his own country for a pack of secessionist, pro-slavery 'Confederates' with their invented régime of rebellion, but fought hard to bring about the defeat the instigators of the Civil War.

In terms of your typical cult like, robotic slander directed at everyone not in full agreement with the 'neo-confederate' agenda, "Bin Laden and Islamic terrorists have a similar hatred and methodology.", What never you have, but nothing should surprise the limitless, disgraceful hate you really do harbour for all those who rightfully support the total eradication of the South's slaveocracy, a detestable, evil system constructed on a shaky foundation of broadbased daily abuse & racial hate for countless millions of victims.

Diehard Islamists firmly believe in slavery, just as the 'Confederate' white supremacists did & do to this day. Southern segregationists, with their outlawed Jim Crow 'laws' had a lot in common with those beast like drafters of the so-called 'Nuremberg Laws', yet you never stop supporting the 'Confederates' coupled with their failed goals of further enslavement for profit.

So when you repeatedly & dishonorably tag all those loyal Americans during the Civil War period, who served this country in defeating what was a wicked system of forced slave labour for millions, a staining curse on this land, as you sickeningly attempt to equate with some how being equal with the likes of jihadic terrorist filth such as "Bin Laden and Islamic terrorists"

Once again you more then prove your uncontrolled, malicious hatred for the vast majority of the American people and her institutions of freedom & liberty. If those you support had won the Civil War, terms such as 'liberty & 'freedom' would have been restricted to only the plantation elite.

You still back the treasonous element which tore this great nation in two so they could continue spreading their empire of slavery. How does it feel being completely devoid of any morals promoting a loathsome scourge which rallied good and honourable men to fight to remove it permanently from America's midst.

742 posted on 10/02/2005 9:26:03 PM PDT by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free)
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To: M. Espinola
there's ONE WAY to get me to "knock it off", FOOL.

LEAVE FR & head over to DU to be a HATE-FILLED, DU-dummy.

otherwise ,expect everyone here, who has an IQ over room temperature to RIDICULE your STUPID comments & DIMwitted opinions.

free dixie,sw

743 posted on 10/03/2005 5:15:33 AM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: M. Espinola
i for one (and i believe i'm not alone) cannot believe that even you, FOOL & HATER that you are,would defend sherman the WAR CRIMINAL.

why not head over to DU today & be one of the brighter DUMB-bunnies, LIARS & FOOLS over there??

free dixie,sw

744 posted on 10/03/2005 5:20:23 AM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: Gianni; All
TRUE!

may i also remind everyone that had it not been for the IMPERIALIST outlook of the north (and not incidentally the DUMB decision of lincoln, the tyrant, to start a war for NO REASON except to gain more PERSONAL POWER & $$$$$$$.) there would now be THREE free republics living PEACEFULLY side by side,just as Canada & the USA do.

free dixie,sw

745 posted on 10/03/2005 5:28:06 AM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: M. Espinola; All
# 716 CLEARLY illustrates how VACANT "m.eSPINola"s cranium is AND what a ignorant HATER he is as well.

i wonder, do IGNORANCE & HATEFULNESS always go hand-in-hand?

personal to "mr SPIN": are you REALLY dumb enough to believe ANY of that REVISIONIST, leftist, BILGE???

free dixie,sw

746 posted on 10/03/2005 5:33:37 AM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: M. Espinola; All
the CRIMINAL ARSON of Columbia,SC is considered a WAR CRIME by all civilized persons, which should have caused the death of sherman by hanging.

free dixie,sw

747 posted on 10/03/2005 5:35:51 AM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: M. Espinola
"Mr SPIN",it's amazing to everyone that ANYBODY can hold the ARROGANTLY IGNORANT, EMPTY-headed opinions that you so proudly proclaim.

be gone to DU & sup with the other south-HATING, leftist/revisionist IDIOTS & ARROGANT FOOLS on DU. you'll be WELCOMED by cvn76,#3fan,whisky papa & several other BANNED EX-freepers.

free dixie,sw

748 posted on 10/03/2005 5:48:57 AM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: M. Espinola
"Mr SPIN",it's amazing to everyone that ANYBODY can hold the ARROGANTLY IGNORANT, EMPTY-headed opinions that you so proudly proclaim.

be gone to DU & sup with the other south-HATING, leftist/revisionist IDIOTS & ARROGANT FOOLS on DU. you'll be WELCOMED by cvn76,#3fan,whisky papa & several other BANNED EX-freepers.

free dixie,sw

749 posted on 10/03/2005 5:49:17 AM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: Non-Sequitur
you KNOW better than that.

had lincoln, the TYRANT, failed to invade MD & VA, there would have been no NEEDLESS war, which cost the lives of a MILLION citizens.

instead there would now be 3 free countries in North America, living peacefully, side by side.

free dixie,sw

750 posted on 10/03/2005 5:52:54 AM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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