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Fleming senior wears racist T-shirt to school
Jacksonville.com ^ | 9.15.05 | BRAD SCHMIDT

Posted on 09/15/2005 10:46:04 AM PDT by conserv13

"What's up with your shirt?"

Those are the words a former senior at Fleming Island High School remembers hearing as he walked from his fifth-period algebra class toward the gym. The 18-year-old, who is not being identified due to his family's concerns of safety, had just taken off his Dixie Outfitter T-shirt, exposing a highly offensive shirt.

"What about it?" replied the 18-year-old, skinny and white.

"Well, you know it's racial," said a black student, now in a group confronting the 18-year-old.

"Yeah. So?"

The undershirt the white student wore had a confederate flag on the front with the words "Keep it flying." On the back, a cartoon depicted a group of hooded Klansmen standing outside a church, waving to two others who had just pulled away in a car reading "Just married."

Two black men in nooses were being dragged behind.

Upset by the shirt, a 17-year-old black student hit the white student in the head. A crowd of about 100 students gathered to watch the Aug. 29 fight before authorities intervened.

(Excerpt) Read more at jacksonville.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: dangerseeker; darwin; dixie; dixielost; florida; hateflag; idiot; moron; race; rebellion; slavery; slaves; treason; tshirt
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To: lady lawyer

Whites are offended every day. Just turn on the TV and you'll see offensive speech. I cringe every time I hear "white people have no rhythm". How about the classic movie "white men can't jump"? White men are the target of choice for every racist out there. Al Sharpton said that people weren't helped in New Orleans because of their color, which infered that all whites responding to the disaster are racists. THAT is offensive. THAT is personal. Should Al Sharpton be punched and "expect" it?

The same people out there crying about free speech won't rear their heads over this one. The ACLU was behind the kid with the "bush is a terrorist" shirt before he left the school grounds- where are they now?

This story illustrates how we have been trained to respond differently to similar situations. I feel sorry for the white kid and the black kid. They both showed stupidity and they both reinforced their own beliefs in the other.


151 posted on 09/15/2005 11:26:32 AM PDT by DilJective (Property ownership is a right. Taxing us out of our homes is criminal.)
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To: gdani
Wat he was doing was deliberately trying to provoke a reaction.

Are you sure? I think it's best to stay out of people's heads, for once. Everyone here pays lip-service to free speech, but when it comes to such a case, people somehow understand that a person is assaulted because of some stupid T-Shirt. Surely, we would not want a society in which everyone who is "offended" attacks someone else?
152 posted on 09/15/2005 11:26:55 AM PDT by DoraC (Ceterum censeo Palaestinam esse delendam!)
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To: TypeZoNegative

egads. The testosterone in here is thick enough to cut with a knife.


153 posted on 09/15/2005 11:27:20 AM PDT by Hi Heels (Guns kill and cause crime? Dang, mine must be malfunctioning....)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

"Does this mean I get to beat up the next punk I see wearing a Che Guevera shirt?"

The response needs to be proportional to the provocation. In Che's case, I think laughing at the guy would be sufficient. Maybe a wedgie.


154 posted on 09/15/2005 11:27:33 AM PDT by Airborne1986 (Well, you can do what you want to us. But we're not going to sit here while you badmouth the U.S.A.)
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To: DilJective; MineralMan
"Either you want all violence justified, or none."

Only an idiot constantly pokes a sleeping bear. The white guy provoked and got a response by his apparel - that wasn't good enough. He made open denigrating remarks anyone should have taken as offensive. He alone bears the responsibility for his asinine behavior of treating another person with such bigotted hatred.

155 posted on 09/15/2005 11:28:37 AM PDT by azhenfud (He who always is looking up seldom finds others' lost change.)
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To: conserv13

I'm a bit offended that he'd wear a shirt implying that the confederate flag is associated with the KKK.


156 posted on 09/15/2005 11:28:42 AM PDT by meyer (The DNC prefers advancing the party at the expense of human lives.)
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To: dogfighter

"The kid with the shirt is obviously a few fries short of a happy meal."

LMAO!


157 posted on 09/15/2005 11:28:45 AM PDT by Airborne1986 (Well, you can do what you want to us. But we're not going to sit here while you badmouth the U.S.A.)
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To: jw777

Kanye West didn't wear a t-shirt advocating the lynching of other people. He just shot off his stupid mouth about his own opinion of someone else.


158 posted on 09/15/2005 11:29:01 AM PDT by hispanarepublicana (No amnesty needed...My ancestors proudly served. [remodel of an old '70s bumper sticker])
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To: antiRepublicrat
Everybody has a right to freedom of speech/expression. OTOH, everybody has a responsibility to take the consequences of it. In this case, he got his consequences.

So you agree the guy who threw the punch should take the consequences of his actions and plead guilty to assault and proudly serve time in jail as a felon?

159 posted on 09/15/2005 11:29:09 AM PDT by Mark was here (How can they be called "Homeless" if their home is a field?.)
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To: jude24

So, Jude, you won't mind the next liberal punching you for disparaging Hillary?


160 posted on 09/15/2005 11:29:14 AM PDT by DilJective (Property ownership is a right. Taxing us out of our homes is criminal.)
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To: RexBeach
This young man sure is stupid. Too bad there's no anitdote for it.

Stupidity can be it's own antidote. See Darwin Awards.
161 posted on 09/15/2005 11:29:14 AM PDT by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: jude24
You're right. It is best to educate people about the Confederacy and its people.


162 posted on 09/15/2005 11:29:23 AM PDT by DoraC (Ceterum censeo Palaestinam esse delendam!)
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To: azhenfud

As we say here in Texas, "He messed with the bull, and he got the horns."


163 posted on 09/15/2005 11:29:26 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: conserv13
Fighting words doctrine. The First Amendment doctrine that holds that certain utterances are not constitutionally protected as free speech if they are inherently likely to provoke a violent response from the audience. N.A.A.C.P. v. Clairborne Hardware Co., Miss., 458 U .8. 886, 102 8.Ct. 3409, 73 L.Ed.2d 1215 (1982). Words which by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace, having direct tendency to cause acts of violence by the persons to whom, individually, remark is addressed. The test is what persons of common intelligence would understand to be words likely to cause an average addressee to fight. City of Seattle v. Camby, 104 Wash.2d 49, 701 P.2d 499, 500.

The “freedom of speech” protected by the Constitution is not absolute at all times and under all circumstances and there are well-defined and narrowly limited classes of speech, the prevention and punishment of which does not raise any constitutional problem, including the lewd and obscene, the profane, the libelous, and the insulting or “fighting words” which by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace. Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire, 315 U.S. 568, 62 S.Ct. 766, 86 L.Ed. 1031. —Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, pages 627-28.

164 posted on 09/15/2005 11:29:51 AM PDT by Gelato
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To: hispanarepublicana

doesn't matter. in print or on air. same crap.


165 posted on 09/15/2005 11:29:58 AM PDT by jw777
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To: DumpsterDiver

Okay I'll give DO a break then. Was getting concerned as I didn't believe they had done a shirt like that. Still, it's indicative of a problem that's found among those that support the South. There is a group, still a small group I hope, of uneducated Southerners that would use the Flag and the heritage I'm proud of as some sort of cover for their racist views.


166 posted on 09/15/2005 11:31:06 AM PDT by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: MineralMan

I wonder if the good sergeant major would like to know what kind of racist sludge is coming his way? Would any Marine here like to notify him? I'm not sure if he'd listen to an Army puke like me. :^)

Geez, just look at that guy, looks like he could tear you apart with a stare.


167 posted on 09/15/2005 11:31:45 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: rattrap

I am not racist, but I hate people from that race. Make any sense to anyone?


168 posted on 09/15/2005 11:31:53 AM PDT by When do we get liberated? ((God save us from the whining, useless, irrelevent left...))
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To: ElkGroveDan

good point. I wonder if this really happened and isn't a planted story to incite racial tension across the country. Just when people are starting to get along this comes out. I can see Jesse Jackson pulling something like this because of jealosy - seeing white people helping black people in New Orleans more than he has (and ever will).


169 posted on 09/15/2005 11:33:05 AM PDT by DilJective (Property ownership is a right. Taxing us out of our homes is criminal.)
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To: Puppage
I guess what I am trying to say that it was never meant as a racist symbol. That fact that a racist group utilizes it as their symbol still, IMHO, doesn't make it a racist symbol because it was never meant to be in the first place

Well same with the swastika, originally a Buddhist symbol (the footprint of the Buhdda) For thousands of years a symbol of peace co-opted by the Nazis. The Nazi symbol is a mirror reflection but most won't notice the difference, and I'm certainly not going to wear a T-shirt around with the Buhdda's footprint on it.
170 posted on 09/15/2005 11:33:28 AM PDT by Ignatius J Reilly
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To: DilJective
That's a silly comparison. There's a world of difference between wearing a T-shirt with a Confederate Flag and a depiction of the Klan dragging black men behind them, and having a political disagreement.

I've never worried about my safety - nor even my reputation - in being center-right in a school where that still leaves me to the right of most of my classmates. I'd be a very lonely guy indeed, however, if I were a racist.

171 posted on 09/15/2005 11:34:35 AM PDT by jude24 ("Stupid" isn't illegal - but it should be.)
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To: conserv13
When I was at MSU, the t-shirt, 'It's a black thing. You wouldn't understand' was popular. My black friends kinda scoffed because they didn't know what it meant yet wore one because they are black. So, I got one and wore it on campus. I'm white. And no one even questioned my wearing it. I got a lot of smiles and a few high fives- from blacks and whites.

The absurdity of the t-shirt was balanced by the absurdity of me wearing it. It was great.

172 posted on 09/15/2005 11:34:56 AM PDT by rintense
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To: sheik yerbouty

Sort of like when the Neo-Nazi's and the clan had a shootout in Greensboro, N.C. I would have paid to see that


173 posted on 09/15/2005 11:35:13 AM PDT by When do we get liberated? ((God save us from the whining, useless, irrelevent left...))
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To: When do we get liberated?
It makes a world of sense.

The guy is a racist without the cajones to admit that he is.

174 posted on 09/15/2005 11:35:40 AM PDT by jude24 ("Stupid" isn't illegal - but it should be.)
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To: thoughtomator

IMO, you are right on this as anybody will be on anything on this forum today. Free speech is either free or it ain't (and now, this is NOT equivalent to yelling Fire! in a crowded theater...in that case, people at least have a reason to start acting apeshit).


175 posted on 09/15/2005 11:36:47 AM PDT by John Robertson (Safe Travel)
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To: When do we get liberated?

I was going to call him an idiot but I figured why waste the space when he did a fabulous job for me.


176 posted on 09/15/2005 11:37:31 AM PDT by rattrap
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To: jw777

I don't have Kanye's direct quote, and I didn't see it firsthand, but did he advocate some kind of violent act? (I'm honestly asking, since I don't know).


177 posted on 09/15/2005 11:37:38 AM PDT by hispanarepublicana (No amnesty needed...My ancestors proudly served. [remodel of an old '70s bumper sticker])
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To: sheik yerbouty

Fantastic handle! That is too funny.


178 posted on 09/15/2005 11:38:07 AM PDT by DilJective (Property ownership is a right. Taxing us out of our homes is criminal.)
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To: dfwgator

I like that - it fits!

The guy with the tee shirt is a first class jack@$$, prolly will never make it out of boot camp..


179 posted on 09/15/2005 11:38:16 AM PDT by azhenfud (He who always is looking up seldom finds others' lost change.)
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To: Mrs Mark
So you agree the guy who threw the punch should take the consequences of his actions and plead guilty to assault and proudly serve time in jail as a felon?

Being a schoolyard brawl, I don't think the criminal courts are called for. Plus the violence was obviously incited, so he might even get off completely in front a jury. But he did break the rules, so he can't just get off without some kind of action. What action would depend on the kid's history.

180 posted on 09/15/2005 11:38:18 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: DilJective

Many thanks!


181 posted on 09/15/2005 11:39:01 AM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: When do we get liberated?

Actually, pay per view might be feasible..


182 posted on 09/15/2005 11:39:58 AM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: conserv13

1. The kid is a dumbass, the T-Shirt is racist and the kid KNEW by wearing it he would provoke someone - he did and he got popped.

2. Does the school not have a dress code policy in force???


183 posted on 09/15/2005 11:40:10 AM PDT by FeliciaCat (I like my money where I can see it...hanging in my closet.)
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To: DilJective
Just turn on the TV and you'll see offensive speech. I cringe every time I hear "white people have no rhythm".

Proportionality is everything. "White people have no rhythm" is quite a bit less extreme than "I'm going to urge folks to tie nooses around the necks of white people and drag them behind pickup trucks."

184 posted on 09/15/2005 11:40:12 AM PDT by Alter Kaker (Whatever tears one may shed, in the end one always blows one’s nose.-Heine)
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To: antiRepublicrat
Love the screen name, you old fart. ;^)

Why thank you.

185 posted on 09/15/2005 11:41:20 AM PDT by Alter Kaker (Whatever tears one may shed, in the end one always blows one’s nose.-Heine)
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To: DilJective

I don't blame him at all for what he did. He didn't mug the guy from behind. He confronted him verbally, and when the kid with the racist shirt was smarmy about it, he got hit. I can understand why.


186 posted on 09/15/2005 11:41:57 AM PDT by baseballfanjm
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To: Dallas59
"But yet I hear RAP music lyrics wanting kill everything that isn't black".

No you don't.

187 posted on 09/15/2005 11:42:14 AM PDT by Shade2
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To: jude24

Them is fighting words.


188 posted on 09/15/2005 11:42:32 AM PDT by TomasUSMC (FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.)
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To: DoraC
>>>>What he was doing was deliberately trying to provoke a reaction.

Are you sure? I think it's best to stay out of people's heads, for once.

What other reason would he possibly have for wearing the shirt? As I said, no one is that stupid.

189 posted on 09/15/2005 11:42:49 AM PDT by gdani
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To: antiRepublicrat
Being a schoolyard brawl, I don't think the criminal courts are called for. Plus the violence was obviously incited, so he might even get off completely in front a jury. But he did break the rules, so he can't just get off without some kind of action. What action would depend on the kid's history.

************

Agreed. Add to that this is likely just the first of many, many altercations for the white kid. All of which he'll be asking for.

190 posted on 09/15/2005 11:42:51 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: FNG

You are absolutely correct. And, they expanded the hate-crime victim pool. Guess who's not in it?


191 posted on 09/15/2005 11:43:19 AM PDT by DilJective (Property ownership is a right. Taxing us out of our homes is criminal.)
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To: thoughtomator
Racist or not, we either have free speech or we don't. If the left-wingers have the "free speech" to engage in overtly treasonous behavior, then this kid should have the free speech right to express his own beliefs, however odious.

Freedom of speech, within educational institutions, does not include the right to wear clothing with disruptive or offensive images or messages on them.

192 posted on 09/15/2005 11:43:25 AM PDT by VRWCmember
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To: John Robertson; thoughtomator
"Free speech is either free or it ain't.."

It ain't. Every word spoken under the cloak of freedom was bought by and paid for by the sacrifice of someone.

If you want "free speech", be willing to take responsibility for its price.

193 posted on 09/15/2005 11:43:45 AM PDT by azhenfud (He who always is looking up seldom finds others' lost change.)
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To: DumpsterDiver; billbears; 4ConservativeJustices
Dixie Outfitters has a fantastic website.
194 posted on 09/15/2005 11:43:49 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: conserv13

The old Texan adage "Some folks just need killin'" springs to mind here. While I certainly don't condone anyone being killed over a t-shirt, I shall tweak the statement to say, "Some folks just need an @$$-kickin'." This is one of said folks.


195 posted on 09/15/2005 11:44:21 AM PDT by TheBigB ("The minute something seems familiar to me it becomes suspicious." - Thomas Veil)
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To: conserv13; Army Air Corps; JFC; WestTexasWend
If he'd had this shirt on instead, this never would've happened.


196 posted on 09/15/2005 11:44:34 AM PDT by hispanarepublicana (No amnesty needed...My ancestors proudly served. [remodel of an old '70s bumper sticker])
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To: TomasUSMC

?????


197 posted on 09/15/2005 11:44:44 AM PDT by jude24 ("Stupid" isn't illegal - but it should be.)
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To: hispanarepublicana

no he didn't.


198 posted on 09/15/2005 11:45:22 AM PDT by jw777
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To: gdani
What other reason would he possibly have for wearing the shirt? As I said, no one is that stupid.

I don't know, nor do I care. He shouldn't become the victim of violence because of any T-Shirt he wears.
199 posted on 09/15/2005 11:45:26 AM PDT by DoraC (Ceterum censeo Palaestinam esse delendam!)
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To: meyer
I'm a bit offended that he'd wear a shirt implying that the confederate flag is associated with the KKK.

Yeah, I really don't like that the confederate flag has been hijacked by those bastards.

200 posted on 09/15/2005 11:45:31 AM PDT by conserv13
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