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THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS New Orleans police can't disarm evacuees - orders weapons returned
Houston Chronicle ^ | September 24, 2005 | Bill Walsh

Posted on 09/24/2005 12:47:27 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

NEW ORLEANS - Gun rights groups won a temporary restraining order Friday preventing police in New Orleans and a nearby parish from confiscating people's firearms when seeking to evacuate residents.

U.S. District Court Judge Jay Zainey ordered the New Orleans Police and St. Tammany Parish Sheriff's Office to stop taking weapons from law-abiding people and return any they already took in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

In documents filed in federal court in Baton Rouge, La., New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Police Chief Eddie Compass and St. Tammany Sheriff Jack Strain deny ordering the confiscation of firearms.

But news reports quoted Compass as saying that only law enforcement officials would be allowed to have firearms and Deputy Chief Warren Riley as saying, "We are going to take all the weapons."

Wayne LaPierre, president of the National Rifle Association, said his group documented 30 to 40 cases of people having their weapons taken away after Katrina hit Aug. 29.

"In many cases, it was from their homes at gunpoint. There were no receipts given or anything else at a time when there was no 911 response, and these citizens were out there on their own protecting their families," LaPierre said."The worst thing about it is that it was at a time of complete collapse of the government's ability to protect people."

In the immediate aftermath of Katrina, there were widespread reports of looting throughout New Orleans. At the outset, the city ordered the police to ignore looters and focus instead on search and rescue. But within days, crime spiraled out of control and police were directed to restore order.

To gain control of the situation, Gov. Kathleen Blanco issued emergency power orders, which allow the authorities to regulate firearms. But the suit alleged that law enforcement officials overstepped the bounds by taking guns away in violation of the 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Louisiana
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; bang; banglist; donutwatch; govwatch; guns; libertarians; neworleans; nopd; nra; weapons
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To: BadAndy
Thank G-D for the NRA.

Be careful. There are the typical "not good enough" crowd here on FR that hate the NRA and think that they dragged their feet or didn't go far enough, etc.

The NRA works the system as best as it can.

This injunction was not won by any other gun group.

51 posted on 09/24/2005 6:08:58 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (9-11 is your Peace Dividend)
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To: xzins
Gun laws vary greatly by state and city. And ignorance of the convoluted laws is no defense.

Best to check on your own areas gun laws.
52 posted on 09/24/2005 6:15:45 AM PDT by PeteB570
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
In documents filed in federal court in Baton Rouge, La., New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, and St. Tammany Sheriff Jack Strain deny ordering the confiscation of firearms. But news reports quoted Compass as saying that only law enforcement officials would be allowed to have firearms and Deputy Chief Warren Riley as saying, "We are going to take all the weapons."

This lying scumbag has committed perjury. How do we go about charging him?

53 posted on 09/24/2005 6:20:01 AM PDT by metalurgist (Death to the democrats! They're almost the same as communists, they just move a little slower.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

we have 80,000,000 gun owners in this country. 4,000,000 + belong to the nra. seems to be something wrong with this picture. hopefully this might be a wake-up call to 75,000,000 americans to get involved to protect our 2nd amendment rights.....


54 posted on 09/24/2005 6:21:11 AM PDT by ronnied (we are the only animals that bare our teeth in greeting...)
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To: Joe Brower

Hang 'em High!

An Armed Citizen, Is A Safe Citizen ~ Bump!


55 posted on 09/24/2005 6:21:45 AM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: PeteB570

It is some defense.

If one no longer has a gun, then he just doesn't have it anymore.


56 posted on 09/24/2005 6:25:44 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: Iris7

Exactly. When a group of heavily armed trained authorized thugs shows up to take your guns, you cooperate or die - hand 'em over, or the "bullets first" theory will result in a lot of lead being thrown your way. You may take some with you; you may persuade them that further confiscations won't be worth it; you may be praised as an RKBA hero; but you will not be around to observe the consequences ... and for those with family, that will make all the difference.

Forming your own group of heavily armed trained law-abiding militia out of remnants of the neighborhood may prevent the problem. The confiscators may do one at a time, but not take on equal groups.


57 posted on 09/24/2005 6:29:35 AM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: ncountylee

I'd like to take his"weapons"away!


58 posted on 09/24/2005 6:39:42 AM PDT by bandleader
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To: libstripper
When faced with an abomination like that the best thing to do is be armed with a video camera, record the entire "special aktion" by the Einsatz group

So how do you stop them from taking your video camera?

59 posted on 09/24/2005 6:43:32 AM PDT by Klickitat
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To: PeteB570

The enfield's are fine of course
But my how choice would also be pre 68 gun act
M1
M1 CARBINE
BROWNING HP
P 38
Any Colt or SW in .38 or .357 in 4"
Webley or Enfield service revolvers ( cheap )
For concealment
Any Colt or SW .38 in 2"
PP / PPK
SAUER M 38h ( little know but very good )


60 posted on 09/24/2005 6:44:36 AM PDT by 1903A3
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To: PeteB570
"Talk on the key board is cheap. When a disaster strikes your community some bone head in Law Enforcement may make a "grab all guns" decision. You sit on your porch and when LEOs turn the corner you're going to have a shootout with them? They kill you, take all the guns in the house and now your family gets to face the looters without you and without any protection?"

You also make unwise assumptions. Darn few people are going to start a gunfight with cops who just turned the corner. Cops (or anyone else) who start breaking into my house are another matter. There WILL be a gunfight. Not only that, there aren't that many cops in ANY town or city, compared to the population of the town or city. The very first time they run into armed resistance, they're going to get the clue that this is not a good idea. My neighborhood, they might succeed in taking my guns, but they wouldn't make it out of the neighborhood.

I don't know about your town or city, but in mine, I'm on a first-name basis with some of the cops, and I don't think we have any who would obey such an order in the first place, since it is quite illegal. They need to think about what will happen after the disaster, too, you know? So does the mayor and the governor, for that matter. I can guarantee that in this state (Oklahoma) a public official who made such a statement would be suddenly unemployed.

Also, mind you, I'm retired military, and strongly of the law-and-order bent, but that include resistance to tyranny, too. If there aren't quite a few civil lawsuits against the people who ordered the confiscations, I'd be seriously surprised. I'd also be seriously surprised if the rest of the public officials don't get the message loud and clear. I'm not particularly rich, but I'd also find some spare change to donate to the legal defense fund of anyone who successfully resisted such a gun-grab, too.
61 posted on 09/24/2005 6:48:31 AM PDT by Old Student (WRM, MSgt, USAF(Ret.))
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

YES! Thank you!


62 posted on 09/24/2005 6:50:14 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

compass is in big big trouble


63 posted on 09/24/2005 6:54:41 AM PDT by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

BTTT


64 posted on 09/24/2005 7:09:24 AM PDT by DocRock (Osama said, "We love death, the U.S. loves life, that is the main difference between us.")
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To: metalurgist; Cincinatus' Wife
"This lying scumbag has committed perjury."

Here is the video where he said "No one will be able to be armed, we will take all weapons". Video
65 posted on 09/24/2005 7:16:54 AM PDT by DocRock (Osama said, "We love death, the U.S. loves life, that is the main difference between us.")
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To: BadAndy
This is fantastic news, and exposes the NOPD and local government for the socialists they are.

The next step is for individuals to bring civil suits against the individuals responsible for the unlawful order, so that future gun confiscators learn that they will be held personally liable for violating the 2nd.

Every gun owner should join the NRA.

66 posted on 09/24/2005 7:38:28 AM PDT by xsrdx
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
"In documents filed in federal court in Baton Rouge, La., New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Police Chief Eddie Compass and St. Tammany Sheriff Jack Strain deny ordering the confiscation of firearms."
---->

The best part of the article. This ruling will not be appealed; therefore, it will stand as precedent for future LA actions.
67 posted on 09/24/2005 7:38:47 AM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

From my cold dead hands Bitch!

The incompetent Dictator Kathleen Blanco issued emergency power orders which allow her soldiers the authority to confiscate firearms from citizens in violation of the
2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

"No one will be able to be armed.
We are going to take all the weapons," Riley said.

On Thursday, in the city's well-to-do Lower Garden District, a neighborhood with many antebellum mansions, members of the Oklahoma National Guard seized weapons from the inhabitants of one home. Those who were armed were handcuffed and briefly detained before being let go.


This could be you.

_____________________

_____________________


68 posted on 09/24/2005 7:50:06 AM PDT by Major_Risktaker
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To: ncountylee
File a class action lawsuit against the moronic Leftists. And if anyone was killed, raped or murdered because of their stupid policies, tack that on, too.
69 posted on 09/24/2005 7:50:32 AM PDT by Reactionary
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To: ASA Vet
You start making "demands" of JBT's in the process of violating your rights and they'll just eliminate you. Their problem is solved.

Absolutely, and that puts the screws to most of the FMCDH crowd that faults NO gun owners for not throwning down the gauntlet.

The only way to deal with illegal confiscation at the extreme end, is through meticulously organized resistance. No reasonable individual is going to take on 15 irritated police with automatic weapons.

Short of that extreme, legal recourse is the thinking mans best option.

If Compass and his cronies lose signifcant credibiity and funding, or even better, are held PERSONALLY liable for violating Constitutional Rights, the outcome of this event will be positive.

70 posted on 09/24/2005 7:51:26 AM PDT by xsrdx
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To: xsrdx

err, "significant credibility". Sheesh.


71 posted on 09/24/2005 7:54:34 AM PDT by xsrdx
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To: Old Student; PeteB570
The whole thing is so situational that it's hard to make any blanket statements about what one would do when faced with the whole unconstitutional confiscation nightmare.

I'd likely not give up my life resisting such an order, since I do have a wife and kiddies, and I would be loathe to endanger them by offering violent resistance.

I would think it wiser in my case to comply with as little assistance coming from me as possible, and I certainly would not be adverse to giving Clintonian answers to any questions. I would certainly try to get names, request to see a warrant, record what I could and get receipts for anything taken. There is a pretty good chance that my initial response would include presenting them with paperwork that showed all or some of my weapons had been transfered to a deceased relative. If they happened to miss some weapons that had been creatively stored, I would not inform them of that fact.

I think history shows that there is a greater chance that an illegal confiscation order will be initially enforced, even by LEOs that think that it is wrong and who are really nice guys to know, than that it would be completely ignored. I would hope to be lucky enough to draw a LEO who was enforcing it with as little enthusiasm as possible, but I wouldn't bank on it.

I can't honestly say that I would go out in a blaze of glory resisting such an unconstitutional order. My personal strategy would be to survive the encounter, retain at least one weapon if possible and get back at the bastards later through legal channels if possible, and other channels in the unlikely event that the emergency order was the beginning of true tyranny.
72 posted on 09/24/2005 7:55:54 AM PDT by M1911A1
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To: Major_Risktaker

Excellent.

BTTT


73 posted on 09/24/2005 8:00:36 AM PDT by planekT (What a mess.)
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To: Just mythoughts

bump


74 posted on 09/24/2005 8:27:09 AM PDT by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: Borax Queen
U.S. District Court Judge Jay Zainey ordered the New Orleans Police and St. Tammany Parish Sheriff's Office to stop taking weapons from law-abiding people and return any they already took in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

ping.

75 posted on 09/24/2005 8:29:01 AM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo

Miracle. Wonder if there will be any repercussions for the undoing of the 2nd Amendment? Thank you for the ping!


76 posted on 09/24/2005 8:36:27 AM PDT by Borax Queen
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To: Borax Queen

This is indeed good news. I heard about yesterday on a local talk radio program. The host had on a Mr. Workman from the 2nd Amendment foundation.


77 posted on 09/24/2005 8:38:14 AM PDT by FixedandDilated
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To: Borax Queen

Glad the NRA is there to make sure that the people have the right to bear arms.....something the elected officials like to "forget."


78 posted on 09/24/2005 8:41:21 AM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
But the suit alleged that law enforcement officials overstepped the bounds by taking guns away in violation of the 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

This suit probably wouldn't have gone too far if such a thing had occured in California. The 9th circuit court of appeals has ruled that the 2nd amendment does not guarantee an individual right to keep and bear arms. And California does not have an equivalent to the 2nd amendment in its state constitution. So we'd be pretty well SOL here from a legal standpoint. And attorney general Lockyer would be happy to help seize firearms.

79 posted on 09/24/2005 8:47:18 AM PDT by FixedandDilated
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To: FixedandDilated; nicmarlo

Now could we please do something about all the other violations of the Constitution that have occurred recently?


80 posted on 09/24/2005 8:48:58 AM PDT by Borax Queen
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To: Borax Queen

*sigh* One at a time, I think. And we need more decent judges who can read and understand the plain language of the Constitution, and not make new law from the bench. I think they've forgotten that the judicial branch is not superior to the other two branches of government.


81 posted on 09/24/2005 8:51:11 AM PDT by FixedandDilated
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To: PeteB570
They kill you, take all the guns in the house and now your family gets to face the looters without you and without any protection?

On the other hand, if they have to shoot it out every time they try confiscate guns, they will probably stop doing that. You really gave to consider the greater good.

82 posted on 09/24/2005 8:54:44 AM PDT by Dan Evans
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To: FixedandDilated

:)


83 posted on 09/24/2005 8:55:23 AM PDT by Borax Queen
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To: M1911A1

I, too, have a wife and children. What message do I send them if I allow things like this? It's ok to knuckle under when it's MY precious hide? Or theirs? I think not.

I'm also an amateur historian, and a history & government teacher. I have a responsibility to teach the truth, and to model proper behavior. Not just to my family, but to my students as well.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

I cannot expect them to do the right thing if I will not, regardless of cost. I lived my life in the Air Force that way, I can't see any reason to change now.


84 posted on 09/24/2005 8:57:35 AM PDT by Old Student (WRM, MSgt, USAF(Ret.))
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To: Abundy; Joe Brower

I would probably turn over an old .38, in order to avoid a detailed home search.

After that, the local govt would have shown its true colors, and all bets would be off. They would have revealed themselves to be the very domestic enemies we swore to defend the Constitution from. The next steps would depend on the situation, possibly a lawsuit as in NOLA, possibly other things if the confiscations were the opening round of establishing a thugocracy.


85 posted on 09/24/2005 9:01:41 AM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: libstripper
Source:
The Cybercast News Service
http://www.cnsnews.com/

Judge Issues Restraining Order Against New Orleans Gun Seizures
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200509\NAT20050923d.html

By Melanie Hunter CNSNews.com Senior Editor
September 23, 2005

(CNSNews.com) - A federal judge Friday issued a temporary restraining order on behalf of two Second Amendment rights groups ending the seizure of firearms from citizens in and around New Orleans.

Video: Citizens Handcuffed, Forced To Give Up Firearms
http://www.gunowners.org/abcnews.mpg

U.S. District Judge Jay Zaney issued the restraining order against those named in a lawsuit brought by the Second Amendment Foundation and the National Rifle Association, which include New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin and Police Chief Edwin Compass III.

"This is a great victory, not just for the NRA and SAF, but primarily for law-abiding gun owners everywhere," said SAF founder Alan M. Gottlieb. "We are proud to have joined forces with the NRA to put an end to what has amounted to a warrantless gun grab by authorities in New Orleans and surrounding jurisdictions."

Gottlieb said not only did residents of New Orleans lose "virtually everything" in Hurricane Katrina, they were also essentially "stripped" of their right to self-defense.

"SAF and NRA had no alternative but to take action," said Gottlieb. Otherwise, the gun seizures "would have set a dangerous precedent that would have encouraged authorities in other jurisdictions to believe they also could suspend the civil rights of citizens in the event of some other emergency."

Gottlieb challenged New Orleans authorities to explain how they will promptly "return all of those firearms to their rightful owners." He said the ruling "affirms is that even in the face of great natural disasters, governments cannot arbitrarily deprive citizens of their rights."

See Earlier Stories:

Second Amendment Groups Move to Stop Gun Seizures (Sept. 22, 2005)
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=\Culture\archive\200509\CUL20050922a.html

New Orleans Gun Seizures Allegedly 'Creating More Victims,' (Sept. 14, 2005)
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200509\NAT20050914a.html
86 posted on 09/24/2005 9:27:35 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Reality: By the time you get your head together, your body's shot to hell.)
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To: xzins

The LAST thing I will be concerned with is making sure I don't lie to a cop who is committing a crime! In my eyes he would be a robber with a badge undeserving of the truth.


87 posted on 09/24/2005 9:31:44 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Reality: By the time you get your head together, your body's shot to hell.)
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To: Travis McGee

Your's is the same idea that I and a number of others have put forth in this thread.

Comply with the least amount of compliance and get them off your porch and down the street as quickly as possible. Get as much information as you can and hit them in court as soon as the emergency has settled down a bit.

For the "cold dead finger" crowd? We'll see.


88 posted on 09/24/2005 9:35:58 AM PDT by PeteB570
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To: ChefKeith; Iris7
This time, I have to agree with Iris7. This was not the time to offer armed resistance. That time may come and maybe sooner than we like to think about, but it was not a nationwide gun grab, it was local. Were I all by myself, I still might offer my own version of the Alamo, but I could not offer my poor wife's neck into certain death. You married a freeper. Honestly, could you? Be honest. You know it's small potaotes and local. Your lives will be but a blip on the radar. Certainly not a Ruby Ridge or the whispered lore of gun legends. The thing to have done was to cache in advance and keep a throw away just in case. A four inch 38 would keep away the riff raff and hey let the cops grab it. THAT is a lawsuit that would keep the issue front and center later. Yeah, I'd be fuming. But I like to think I would not be stupid. There is a reason that the military counsels that the best course of action in wartime is to choose your battle; don't let the battle choose you.
89 posted on 09/24/2005 9:39:53 AM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: Erik Latranyi

>>This injunction was not won by any other gun group.<<


U.S. District Judge Jay Zaney issued the restraining order against those named in a lawsuit brought by the Second Amendment Foundation and the National Rifle Association,

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1490434/posts?page=86#86


90 posted on 09/24/2005 9:40:42 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Reality: By the time you get your head together, your body's shot to hell.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

When cops are criminals there is no law


91 posted on 09/24/2005 9:43:16 AM PDT by joesnuffy
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To: PeteB570
I think the moment that any became aware that the police were confiscating weapons would be the time to call every one of your friends and agree to meet two blocks away from where this was happening.

Then when 50, 100, or 500 armed civilians show up and inform them that they are breaking the law I hope it would cease immediately. The LEO's have families too. They aren't professional soldiers. They do want to go home at the end of their shift.
92 posted on 09/24/2005 9:57:05 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Reality: By the time you get your head together, your body's shot to hell.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
New Orleans police can't disarm evacuees - orders weapons returned

I've seen how LEAs return confiscated property. It ain't quick, it ain't polite, it ain't convenient, and the property is scarcely recognizable if the LEOs don't like you.

93 posted on 09/24/2005 10:05:40 AM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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To: B4Ranch
Then when 50, 100, or 500 armed civilians show up and inform them that they are breaking the law I hope it would cease immediately.

The cops would withdraw and send in SWAT and/or the National Guard. Then what?

94 posted on 09/24/2005 10:06:28 AM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

and you will only see strong coverage of this important LEGAL issue here on FR.


95 posted on 09/24/2005 10:09:27 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: PeteB570

Yep. I can't see the value of dying in a front porch shootout with a SWAT team.


96 posted on 09/24/2005 10:14:31 AM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: PeteB570
When a disaster strikes your community some bone head in Law Enforcement may make a "grab all guns" decision. You sit on your porch and when LEOs turn the corner you're going to have a shootout with them? They kill you, take all the guns in the house and now your family gets to face the looters without you and without any protection

Well.....a voter can begin by voting for a protector of the 2nd Amendment....also, a smart patriot knows how to ambush and run when confrontation is futile....

97 posted on 09/24/2005 10:15:47 AM PDT by cbkaty (I may not always post...but I am always here......)
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To: Old Student
You raise valid points.

Let's suppose that the "zero tolerance for confiscation" policy had been used by a citizen in New Orleans. Unless the media was there, and the recorded record clearly indicated that the citizen had died because he was refusing to cooperate with the confiscation order because it was unconstitutional, what we probably would have at that point is a dead homeowner (and maybe his family) filed under the "looter/gunman shot by law enforcement" category. We may well have had this happen.

Perhaps the LEOs would retreat in the face of threatened or actual resistance, but I doubt it.

If the media was not there, and there were no survivors on the homeowner side, then we have to depend on the LEOs telling the truth about the sequence of events. Perhaps a citizen might be prescient enough to prerecord his intentions to die resisting a confiscation order in a way that ensured it could not be suppressed, but I doubt it.

Otherwise we would have to rely on the surviving family members to tell the story later in court, or in the media, once they get out of prison/the hospital.

If real and lasting tyranny had begun, any statements by survivors, LEOs or the deceased that didn't fit the agenda of the tyrants would not be allowed.

In New Orleans, due to lack of electronic communications, there really was no way of getting the word out that armed resistance to confiscation had started, at least locally, except by word of mouth. I doubt that the authorities would cooperate in spreading tales of resistance, and dead men famously tell no tales.

As it now seems to be turning out, the New Orleans confiscation policy was a temporary and stupid overstepping of authority that will be redressed in court, and hopefully the the legislative and electoral systems.

I can't argue with your convictions, and I rather admire you for them.

I simply would not be willing to bet my life and the lives of my family that the illegal actions of local government during a natural disaster were going to snowball into a general imposition of dictatorship on a national level that would preclude redress at a later date.

If the circumstances were different, and there was, for example, a coup going on at the federal level, that might change things, and there could be a set of circumstances so horrible that would make me think it was time to sell my life and the lives of my kin at the highest price I could extract.

Resisting the stupidity and ignorance of a tin-pot chief of city police and his equally wrongheaded local political bosses just doesn't cross that threshold for me.
98 posted on 09/24/2005 10:17:08 AM PDT by M1911A1
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To: Allosaurs_r_us; Abram; AlexandriaDuke; Annie03; Baby Bear; bassmaner; Bernard; BJClinton; ...
Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here
99 posted on 09/24/2005 10:36:33 AM PDT by freepatriot32 (Deep within every dilemma is a solution that involves explosives)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

BTTT!


100 posted on 09/24/2005 10:40:34 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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