The ‘Darwinist Inquisition’ Starts Another Round

http://www.pfm.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=BreakPoint1&Template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=169

[drhogan]

goodnite, everybody. i'm going to bed. have fun!

[Right Wing Professor]

If the teachers are citing the Bible as a science source, then you can begin to make a church/state issue out of it. If they're citing Dembski and Behe, you can't.

You mean, the Dembski who said

Christ is indispensable to any scientific theory, even if its practitioners don't have a clue about him. The pragmatics of a scientific theory can, to be sure, be pursued without recourse to Christ. But the conceptual soundness of the theory can in the end only be located in Christ.

and

ID is part of God's general revelation

and

Not only does intelligent design rid us of this ideology (materialism), which suffocates the human spirit, but, in my personal experience, I've found that it opens the path for people to come to Christ.

No church/state issue there, huh?

[RightInEastLansing]

"This statement of yours shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Inside a closed system the entropy is increasing but that says nothing how parts of that system behave. Please go and read some science books about that before repeating such nonsense."

So please show me an example of reverse entropy occuring in nature comparable to the act of animating the inanimate? You do understand that you must show me a natural example, i.e. devoid of intelligent, living, input.

Good luck and thanks for playing!

[DC Bound]

"I'm sure what's confusing everyone is that neither "Darwinism" nor evolutionary theory say anything about the universe existing by random chance. When faced with such nonsense, it's natural to try and elicit the intended meaning."

So you have no problem with public educators teaching our children that there is very little evidence supporting a random origin to life, while there is significant statistical evidence supporting the non-random origin of life?

1) Just for the record, I didn't make the statement you quoted in your post. That said, I agree with it. Evolution is not entirely about random chance, and calling it that is either ignorance or an attempt to minimalize the evolutionist argument that change is a product of natural selection. Anyone with a beef about evolution needs to make the case against natural selection.

2) I have not stated an opinion about public educators. But as you state the proposition, you mischaracterize. The school board wants a short statement to be read that tells kids there are challenges to evolution. That is factually accurate. I don't have a problem with kids making up their own minds. The only thing science has to fear is a shortage of new ideas. Over time, no matter how many dead ends we run down, we will continue to get closer to the truth. The very point of science is that nothing is ever beyond reevaluation based on new evidence. People who want to squelch new ideas are not interested in science.

[inquest]

EEK! He expressed a religious view!

Too bad it was in a book that talked about the relationship between science and religion. Other scientists do that all the time of course without raising anybody's eyebrows, as long as they're doing it with approved theories.

[Right Wing Professor]

So please show me an example of reverse entropy occuring in nature comparable to the act of animating the inanimate?

If you're under the impression there is a significant entropy difference between a live body and a dead body, or for that matter between a live body and a similar mass of water, please disabuse yourself.

[shuckmaster]

I am astounded that so many people who I thought were conservative... ...at whose feet we all shall bow.

All the conservatives I know refuse to bow at anyone's feet. Are you a troll?

[Dimensio]

Yes, I agree. Just the other day, the sun created a new Lexus for me.

Of course. When a creationist can't refute a point, he simply introduces a logical fallacy. In this case, you simply change the subject.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Can we please stop using the grating redundancy 'random chance'? :-)

What about Random Normal Deviates?

[Right Wing Professor]

So ID is part of 'God's general revelation', and a means to rid people of materialism, but it's not religious, it's scientific.

Any other scientific theories you'd care to name with similar qualities?

[Right Wing Professor]

Are you a troll?

If you have to ask....

[inquest]

So ID is part of 'God's general revelation', and a means to rid people of materialism, but it's not religious, it's scientific.

Well, since Dembski believes that ID is scientifically accurate, and since he believes in God, you can put two and two together as well as I can. What you can't do is make the realistic claim that because a proponent of a particular theory has a religious view surrounding it, any teaching of the theory in a public school is thus tainted as a church/state violation.

It really isn't that hard to look at what's going on in a classroom and see if what's being taught is or is not religion. If they're examining scientific evidence, and not introducing any religious texts or religious dogma, then it's not religion, regardless of how strongly you disagree with the conclusions they're drawing from the evidence.

[Oztrich Boy]

I thought we had proof of the holocaust.

And the Revisionists just want to teach the flaws in that proof.

[mlc9852]

Well, I'm willing to listen to their argument but I doubt my mind would be changed. It has been proved that the holocaust happened and there are witnesses to it, writings of it, pictures of it - but people are free to reject that evidence if they so choose.

[inquest]

All the conservatives I know refuse to bow at anyone's feet.

He was referring to God's feet. So all the conservatives you know are atheist? I'm not doubting you, because I know there are atheist conservatives, but I don't think they constitute the majority.

[ml1954]

I guess this is an example of a solid news/activism post. Far unlike some other posts that have been relegated to other categories.

[shuckmaster]

He was referring to God's feet.

Does god wear shoes?

[Oztrich Boy]

This sentence is false.

[PatrickHenry]

I guess this is an example of a solid news/activism post.

The mods have a difficult job. They can't be expected to place every thread in the right forum. Not a big deal.

[MRMEAN]

Photosynthesis.