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Evolution and intelligent design Life is a cup of tea
Economist ^ | 10/6/05 | Economist

Posted on 10/07/2005 4:59:16 AM PDT by shuckmaster

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To: <1/1,000,000th%
This is why it's so difficult to have a scientific discussion with creationists. They have no background in science so our arguments don't seem to mean anything.

In contrast, pro-evolutionists have no background in Intelligent Design studies so their arguments don't seem to mean anything.

651 posted on 10/12/2005 11:04:03 AM PDT by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: Junior
One would think the author of the Bible, being God and all, could've made the distinction,

So your knowledge is considered higher than Gods'. Like I have said, everyone has their own god/God.

652 posted on 10/12/2005 11:09:53 AM PDT by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: taxesareforever
So your knowledge is considered higher than Gods'

It's not knowledge. It's understanding what is morally wrong.

Slavery is reprehensible. I'm concerned that your god isn't clear on that.

653 posted on 10/12/2005 11:16:04 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Paging Nehemiah Scudder:the Crazy Years are peaking. America is ready for you.)
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To: taxesareforever
No, I said the mistakes are proof that God did not write the Bible (He cannot make mistakes), regardless of the prattlings of mere mortal men.

Just because some guy claims a document is divinely inspired does not make it so. And, barring God Himself coming down and telling you one way or another, that's all you've got -- the word of men.

654 posted on 10/12/2005 11:21:43 AM PDT by Junior (From now on, I'll stick to science, and leave the hunting alien mutants to the experts!)
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To: taxesareforever
How the moderator could consider this digusting or over the edge is beyond me. I thought FreeR was for a "free exchange" of ideas. My mistake again.

Maybe you should ask JimRob for a ruling on your posts at 375 & beyond.

655 posted on 10/12/2005 11:44:33 AM PDT by jennyp (WHAT I'M READING NOW: Art of Unix Programming by Raymond)
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To: eleni121

Ah, but taxes posted in support of slavery.


Christian or no?


656 posted on 10/12/2005 11:56:40 AM PDT by From many - one.
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To: eleni121
Atheists and evolutionists may need to state their opposition to slavery forthrightly, repeatedly, and constantly given the fact of lack of moral clarity in the atheist fold.

Why would all who accept evolution need to state their opposition to slavery when not all who accept evolution are atheists? Please explain your reasoning here.

Christians do not.

Very well. I will take previous comments on this topic to indiciate that Christians are perfectly accepting of slavery. At least, Christian creationists. Apparently you think that Christians who accept evolution must state their position outright, yet you've provided no justification for this double-standard.
657 posted on 10/12/2005 12:05:05 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: eleni121

All of your ranting and raving does not change the fact that you are quoting out-of-context to support a false claim. That is fundamentally dishonest, but since you don't have a fact on your side you seem content to resort to lies.


658 posted on 10/12/2005 12:09:21 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Junior
Just because some guy claims a document is divinely inspired

That "guy" is God (2 Peter 1:20,21)and since you disavow this you are saying that Christians have no basis for Intelligent Design arguments. And since you won't allow Scripture in this discussion it is considered over.

659 posted on 10/12/2005 12:40:02 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: taxesareforever
In contrast, pro-evolutionists have no background in Intelligent Design studies so their arguments don't seem to mean anything.

That's because there are no ID studies. No one has a background in ID studies.

660 posted on 10/12/2005 12:43:42 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: From many - one.
Ah, but taxes posted in support of slavery. Christian or no?

Supporting it and saying that it is not wrong are two different things. I know you find this hard to believe. Is gambling wrong? No. Do I support it? No. Illogical? Only in your mind.

661 posted on 10/12/2005 12:45:39 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: <1/1,000,000th%
That's because there are no ID studies. No one has a background in ID studies.

Being in denial does not change the facts.

662 posted on 10/12/2005 12:47:03 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: jennyp
Maybe you should ask JimRob for a ruling on your posts at 375 & beyond.

I am led to believe that JimRob has considered my later posts and sees the logic that I have submitted and considered it worthy of discussion.

663 posted on 10/12/2005 12:50:16 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: taxesareforever
...Dembski’s filter has never been demonstrated to be able to distinguish anything in the biological realm — it has never been successfully applied by anyone to any biological phenomena (Elsberry and Shallit, 2003).

If you have a link to anyone who has actually performed Dembski's calculation of "complex specified information" please post it.

No one has seen it done anywhere as far as I know.

664 posted on 10/12/2005 1:05:07 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: taxesareforever

No. It's some guy claiming to talk for God. You accept, uncritically, the claims the Bible makes for being the Word of God. Yet you really have nothing other than the words in the Bible to base that acceptance upon.


665 posted on 10/12/2005 1:11:53 PM PDT by Junior (From now on, I'll stick to science, and leave the hunting alien mutants to the experts!)
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To: Junior
Yet you really have nothing other than the words in the Bible to base that acceptance upon.

I'll believe the Words of God before I believe the words of mere mortals.

666 posted on 10/12/2005 1:14:40 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: taxesareforever
But you don't know those are the words of God. You are taking the word of mere mortals that they are.
667 posted on 10/12/2005 1:16:26 PM PDT by Junior (From now on, I'll stick to science, and leave the hunting alien mutants to the experts!)
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To: <1/1,000,000th%

You posted this to me. I was not the one who posted the quote you listed.


668 posted on 10/12/2005 1:16:58 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: taxesareforever

What I posted to you are the words of one of the critics of Behe's book on ID.

I'm giving you the opportunity to link to an "ID study" based on Dembski's definition that Behe uses repeatedly.


669 posted on 10/12/2005 1:25:45 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: taxesareforever
Point of order. Post #375 wasn't mine.

Of course it was. Responding to 375 gives:

[In a shaded box] In the News/Activism forum, on a thread titled Evolution and intelligent design Life is a cup of tea , taxesareforever wrote:

[In the posting itself.] My position on slavery? I don't consider it is wrong to have slaves.

Who else do you allow to use your posting privileges?

670 posted on 10/12/2005 1:26:00 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Thatcherite
We have a new modus operandi:

Make a provocative post (supporting slavery in this case);

Have the post pulled;

Deny that one did this.

Even Arnold can't erase this post.


671 posted on 10/12/2005 1:32:35 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: jennyp

I do not find it curious that no creationist has yet criticized slavery.


672 posted on 10/12/2005 1:34:57 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: jennyp
"By the way, anyone who is employed is in effect a slave. "

This is the usual Marxist conflation of force with money. I do not find it curious that creationists make such catagorical mistakes.

673 posted on 10/12/2005 1:41:03 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: <1/1,000,000th%

I do not know a thing about Behe or Dembski. I don't know why you insinuate that I should.


674 posted on 10/12/2005 1:41:03 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: Doctor Stochastic

Read my post #643. Might clear up some of your confusion.


675 posted on 10/12/2005 1:43:38 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: taxesareforever
"Supporting it and saying that it is not wrong are two different things."

Saying that slavery is not wrong goes against the entire purpose this website exists. There is no way to reconcile individual rights, which the Free Republic called the United States is the first and greatest historical example, with slavery.


"Is gambling wrong? No. Do I support it? No. Illogical?"

Slavery is not gambling. Slavery is always immoral; it is the initiation of force against another. Gambling is a matter of choice; slavery is the annihilation of choice.

Your new tagline should be, "Slavery Now, Slavery Tomorrow, Slavery Forever-- If that's what the Government Wants"
676 posted on 10/12/2005 2:10:15 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: Doctor Stochastic
When I was a Director I frequently beat my staff. I chained them up at night and made free with their women, keeping the resultant children as my own future slaves if it pleased me to do so. I kicked a couple of the men to death (they made an inadvertant error), but fortunately for me they survived 36 hours in horrible pain so at least I need fear no biblical injunction. Now I am an employee my bosses do the same thing to me and my fellow wage-slaves. Truly, paid employment is just like slavery.

But I was always sure that I let Hebrews go before 6 years were up (well, actually I sold them on after 5 years).

And don't get me started when it comes to tax inspectors. Taxes are just like slavery too (according to the cretinists).

677 posted on 10/12/2005 2:15:38 PM PDT by Thatcherite (Feminized androgenous automaton euro-weenie blackguard)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
Slavery is always immoral;

In your opinion. And what is your opinion based on?

678 posted on 10/12/2005 2:52:00 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
Slavery is always immoral; it is the initiation of force against another.

Is abortion always immoral? Does it initiate force against another? Yes and yes, yet the government sanctions it and women and doctors use it. Go figure.

679 posted on 10/12/2005 2:54:53 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: taxesareforever

Let's try this again:

You in the infamous post 375:
"I don't consider it is wrong to have slaves."

Clean and simple: You don't consider it is wrong to have slaves.

Now you imply, but do not say directly, that although is is not wrong you would not support it, making an analogy with gambling not being wrong but something you nevertheless would not support.

That leaves me with two questions:

1. Why is is not wrong to have slaves?
2. How does the idea that is is not wrong to have slaves relate to your religious views?


680 posted on 10/12/2005 2:58:59 PM PDT by From many - one.
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To: taxesareforever
Is abortion always immoral? Does it initiate force against another? Yes and yes, yet the government sanctions it and women and doctors use it. Go figure.

So by your own logic, since abortion is legal you must not consider it wrong.

681 posted on 10/12/2005 3:04:45 PM PDT by jennyp (WHAT I'M READING NOW: Art of Unix Programming by Raymond)
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To: taxesareforever

One of the benefits of not being a literalist is that one can understand the underlying truth of the Bible and not have to twist one's mind into a pretzel in order to defend parts for which understanding is context based.


682 posted on 10/12/2005 3:06:25 PM PDT by From many - one.
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To: taxesareforever
"In your opinion. And what is your opinion based on?"

My individual rights as a human being. Nobody has the right to initiate force. I can't believe that on a conservative website, I have to defend the immorality of slavery, but so it is.

"Is abortion always immoral? Does it initiate force against another? Yes and yes, yet the government sanctions it and women and doctors use it. Go figure."

You are equating what the government allows, what is legal, with what is moral. According to this statist mentality, people can do anything they wish to each other if a majority says so. That is the essence of evil.

To quote John Locke:

“Every man has a property in his own person. This nobody has any right to but himself. The labor of his body and the work of his hands…are properly his. Whatsoever he removes out of the state nature has provided, and left it in, he has mixed his labor with, and joined to it something that is his own, and thereby makes it his property.” 8

8. John Locke, Two Treatises of Government (New York: New American Library, 1963), Section 27, pp. 328-329.

You are really sinking deeper and deeper.
683 posted on 10/12/2005 3:08:52 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: jennyp
"So by your own logic, since abortion is legal you must not consider it wrong."

You're going to confuse him with tough words like *Logic*. lol
684 posted on 10/12/2005 3:10:32 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: Dimensio

It appears that some of you are reading impaired. Not unusual given the lack of critical thinking skills that infects the evolutionist and atheist camps.

Allow me to repost.

"Atheists and evolutionists may need to state their opposition to slavery forthrightly, repeatedly, and constantly given the fact of lack of moral clarity in the atheist fold."

Christians do not.

That meains that it is a given that Christians would oppose slavery and subjugation as indeed they have done over and over again.

Most of the world's totalitarian political leadership has embraced atheism and evolution...using the arguments therein to enslave and annihilate millions of "unsuitables" and "lesser" evolved humans, even the pre-born.


685 posted on 10/12/2005 3:46:32 PM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: eleni121
That meains that it is a given that Christians would oppose slavery and subjugation as indeed they have done over and over again.

Now I am confused. Are you saing taxesareforever isnt a christian?

686 posted on 10/12/2005 3:48:57 PM PDT by RightWingNilla
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To: RightWingNilla

I don't know who taxesareforever is? Is it you?


687 posted on 10/12/2005 3:50:49 PM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: eleni121
I don't know who taxesareforever is? Is it you?

No, I am diamondsareforever.

688 posted on 10/12/2005 3:52:16 PM PDT by RightWingNilla
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To: eleni121
That meains that it is a given that Christians would oppose slavery and subjugation as indeed they have done over and over again.

Starting when?

689 posted on 10/12/2005 3:56:07 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: eleni121
I don't know who taxesareforever is? Is it you?

Taxesareforever (post #375):

"My position on slavery? I don't consider it is wrong to have slaves. "

690 posted on 10/12/2005 3:59:44 PM PDT by RightWingNilla
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To: RightWingNilla

You're stuck on stupid.

What is the context of why he posted it is he did that is. The posting has been removed. It exists in your memory...whatever that is. What someone else has written usually means nothing in an anonymous forum. For all I know he could be a dumb Darwinian posing as a Christian. Lots of factors involved and so little time and logic on your part.

You should be worrying about your own beliefs and stop worrying about taxesareforever whoever. It is your beliefs/stands/opinions that lead to genocide and racialism not Christian ones.

Hope this helps...somehow I know it won't.



691 posted on 10/12/2005 4:11:12 PM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: js1138

S. Paul-Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


692 posted on 10/12/2005 4:22:31 PM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: eleni121

So when did Christians start freeing slaves?


693 posted on 10/12/2005 4:26:53 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: js1138

When did atheists and evolutionists stop believing in the theory of the evolution of the tooth fairy?

Answer: They haven't.


694 posted on 10/12/2005 4:29:11 PM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: eleni121

So when did Christians start freeing slaves?


695 posted on 10/12/2005 4:29:38 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: jennyp
So by your own logic, since abortion is legal you must not consider it wrong.

Of course I consider abortion wrong. If the our government sanctioned slavery I would say it was wrong because it would be against our Constitution. What is right or wrong for one country is not necessarily right or wrong for another country. Just ask the people living in other countries.

696 posted on 10/12/2005 4:32:36 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: js1138

Do I detect a certain robotic tendency amongst you evos/atheists? Yup.

When did atheists and evolutionists stop believing in the theory of the evolution of the tooth fairy?

Answer: They haven't.


697 posted on 10/12/2005 4:33:33 PM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: eleni121
"What is the context of why he posted it is he did that is. The posting has been removed. It exists in your memory...whatever that is."

It exists on my computer, since I saved it. He also said,

""I am not in support of slavery. What I am saying is if government allows slavery than slavery is permissible. However I am not an advocate of government sanctioning slavery."

"For all I know he could be a dumb Darwinian posing as a Christian. Lots of factors involved and so little time and logic on your part."

He quoted scripture to support his position, not Darwin.

"It is your beliefs/stands/opinions that lead to genocide and racialism not Christian ones. "

That's a lie. Not surpised though.
698 posted on 10/12/2005 4:35:45 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: eleni121
That meains that it is a given that Christians would oppose slavery and subjugation as indeed they have done over and over again.

When did they start freeing slaves? Name the time and place.

699 posted on 10/12/2005 4:36:42 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: longshadow

700


700 posted on 10/12/2005 4:37:20 PM PDT by PatrickHenry ( I won't respond to a troll, crackpot, retard, or incurable ignoramus.)
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