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Some Conservatives Need To Be Taken To The Woodshed (vanity)
Me ^ | 18-October-2005 | Erik Latranyi

Posted on 10/18/2005 8:18:22 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi

It is time to take some conservatives to the woodshed.

With a heavy heart, I write the above after visiting Free Republic this morning.

Why?

Simply our discourse is degenerating. I am dismayed at the amount of name-calling taking place in these pages. I am even more dismayed that this name-calling is being conducted by conservatives against conservatives.

I understand the anger and disappointment stemming from the Miers nomination, but also inclusive of the budget deficit, education department, immigration, etc. These are matters that bother me as well.

Unfortunately, the tone on Free Republic bothers me even more. When conservatives call each other names and friendly disagreement over issues degenerates into those proclaiming to be "real conservatives" versus "phony conservatives" we only bow to our lowest common denominator.

Rush Limbaugh calls this the "conservative crackdown". In many ways he is right (as Rush is so often). Conservatives do not want stealth candidates. We worked hard to win and will continue to work hard to increase our majorities and enact our agenda.

We are proud conservatives and we want to proclaim this from the mountain tops!

We also want those who represent us to be proud as well. We do not want apologies. We do not want stealth. We do not need to hide behind "compassionate conservative" labels.

We are the majority and we will remain the majority as long as we continue to educate the public about what conservatism is and why we demand responsibility from both the individual and the gov't.

However, lately, we are calling each other names.

This is liberal-speak. We do not want to stoop to the level of our enemies. We should not use their tactics, either.

Conservatives use logic and reason to support our ideas. We can disagree without being disagreeable.

We are not doing that, folks!

Too many of us are so caught up lately that we forget how to be civil. If you want to call names and use the F-bomb, go to DU. You will find that language replaces truth and fact everywhere.

And that is what names do, isn't it? Names replace truth and fact.

But we are conservatives. Truth and fact are what got us this far and it will be truth and fact that continue our rise to roll back 80 years of liberalism.

Some of us back President Bush and trust his judgement. Some of us do not. That is OK. That is healthy for our movement.

What is unhealthy for our movement is this name-calling.

Let it stop. Let us debate Harriet Miers over facts and truth. Stop pronouncing yourself a "true conservative" and anybody who backs President Bush a "Bush-Bot". That is liberal-speak.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: bohica; bush; bushbot; callawaaahmbulance; conservatives; fakeconservative; holierthanthou; miers; pedantry; poopoohead
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1 posted on 10/18/2005 8:18:24 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: Regicide
You big moronic poser! ;)

Oh, that's it you liberal troll weenie! ;)

3 posted on 10/18/2005 8:23:17 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (9-11 is your Peace Dividend)
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To: Erik Latranyi
Amen, brother. I'm not even going to participate in the infighting threads any more.

If you support and trust the President in this matter, as I do, you are not a "real" conservative.

In the vernacular of the the "true" conservatives posting on the subject, screw that.

Leni

4 posted on 10/18/2005 8:24:27 AM PDT by MinuteGal (Re: The Anti-War Sheehan-ites - They want to live in the garden but not tend the garden)
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To: Regicide

"Conservative" branch of the Republican party as represented by the tantrum throwing George Will, those with the tendency to go off the deep end like Rush Limbaugh have done a lot of damage with their childish behavior and need to grow up, start acting responsibly, doing more good than harm and behaving like mature adults.


5 posted on 10/18/2005 8:25:20 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heros have always been cowboys-Reagan and Bush)
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To: Erik Latranyi
Oh you're just a RHINO BUSH BOT! Neener Neener! Tongue Out(only kidding!) Good Post!
6 posted on 10/18/2005 8:25:40 AM PDT by areafiftyone (Politicians Are Like Diapers, Both Need To Be Changed Often And For The Same Reason!)
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To: Erik Latranyi

It's not conservative vs. conservative. It's conservative vs. Republican. Anyone who supports the big government blowout that's occurred since 2001 is probably not a conservative, at least not a fiscal one.


7 posted on 10/18/2005 8:26:06 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: Erik Latranyi

Naah. Name calling is much more fun.


8 posted on 10/18/2005 8:27:05 AM PDT by sauropod (Polite political action is about as useful as a miniskirt in a convent -- Claire Wolfe)
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To: Erik Latranyi

It's all a vast MoveOn.org conspiracy.


9 posted on 10/18/2005 8:27:20 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: Erik Latranyi
One thing I have learned on here

Conservative does not= integrity and respect
10 posted on 10/18/2005 8:27:30 AM PDT by PaulaB
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To: Erik Latranyi
However, lately, we are calling each other names.

Idiot.

11 posted on 10/18/2005 8:27:47 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: Erik Latranyi
"But we are conservatives. Truth and fact are what got us this far and it will be truth and fact that continue our rise to roll back 80 years of liberalism."

Ahem...In case you hadn't noticed, not all Freepers and Republicans are "conservative," but are in fact "compassionate conservatives" or RINOS who are "rolling" towards liberalism (or mushy-middle.)

12 posted on 10/18/2005 8:27:52 AM PDT by F16Fighter
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To: Erik Latranyi

Bushbots are not just anyone who backs Bush on Miers, but those who back him no matter what he does, who backed him on Federalizing education, on McVain-Vaingold, on the largest entitlement program in 40 years, on his massive ag spending, on AIDS aid for Africa, on his refusal to do anything about the borders, on issue after issue after issue. And they back Miers too, not for substantive reasons (as some do, although I disagree with tehm), but because they "support our President." Sorry, but that's not a good reason.

They support open-borders Republicans over Minutemen. They support RINOs in Senate and House races over principled conservatives -- after all,the White House backs them, so that's reason enough, isn't it?

If you have a good reason for supporting any of this, that's one thing. I may disagree, but I can at least respect it. But "we have to support our President" is not a good reason. Sorry.


13 posted on 10/18/2005 8:27:56 AM PDT by TBP
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To: Erik Latranyi

Hear, hear!


14 posted on 10/18/2005 8:28:59 AM PDT by Termite_Commander (Warning: Cynical Right-winger Ahead)
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To: Erik Latranyi
Simply our discourse is degenerating... I understand the anger and disappointment stemming from the Miers nomination, but also inclusive of the budget deficit, education department, immigration, etc. These are matters that bother me as well.

Hah. Forget Miers... how about when the Terri Schiavo matter was raging on here? Half the board were calling the other half death-worshippers.

15 posted on 10/18/2005 8:29:08 AM PDT by SedVictaCatoni (<><)
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To: Erik Latranyi

Yeah, just stick our heads in the sand, and ignore REALITY. Wow, super lib!!!


16 posted on 10/18/2005 8:29:35 AM PDT by EagleUSA
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To: Erik Latranyi
What you say is pretty much true. Your comment re if you say anything negative about Bush here, you get immediately jumped on is totally true. As good a person as Bush seems to be, he is human, has made some big mistakes. He is not perfect, thus has made some gross errors in judgment in my opinion. And, like you, I think I am ENTITLED to that OPINION. I believe I have earned it. But, I do not back ANY candidate 100%. I do not give anyone TOTAL control over my life, thoughts, wishes, desires, wants and life. I do not trust anyone to make decision regarding my life but ME. It is my life. If I make the errors, I pay for them. Not you, not Bush, not anyone else, but ME. However, if Bush or out beloved RINOcrat congress makes a MISTAKE, ERROR IN JUDGMENT, We all PAY for it. Usually with our pocket books. When I personally make comments concerning President Bush's decisions, etc., it is because I have MY OPINION as he has his. But, again, he is not perfect. If in my judgment, he made an error, I feel I have a right to say that. Just because I disagree with his decisions does not mean I hate the guy. It means I think he made a MISTAKE. We all make them I think. Well most of us. Some here think they are above mistakes, thus perfect. I assume they live in that town in the TV commercial, of Perfect, USA.
17 posted on 10/18/2005 8:29:37 AM PDT by RetiredArmy (The RNC & RINOcrats - The party of self-inflicted Wounds)
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To: Erik Latranyi

I dont even read the flame Harriet posts anymore. Like her or not the lady is entitled to her confirmation hearing. Im looking forward to hearing her for myself.


18 posted on 10/18/2005 8:29:55 AM PDT by DogBarkTree
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To: Erik Latranyi; MurryMom

O.K. But Murrymom is still an infidel


19 posted on 10/18/2005 8:31:33 AM PDT by small voice in the wilderness (Behold the Riderless Pony. Bringing doom and destruction on a smaller scale.)
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To: mysterio

See thats the point, certain conservatives think they own the only version of conservatism out there.


20 posted on 10/18/2005 8:32:39 AM PDT by aft_lizard (This space waiting for a post election epiphany it now is: Question Everything)
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To: Erik Latranyi

Another 'stinkin, bandwidth-wasting vanity!!!!


21 posted on 10/18/2005 8:32:47 AM PDT by johnny7 (“What now? Let me tell you what now.”)
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To: Erik Latranyi
For good or ill, the Republican party has become the "big tent" that the Dems claimed to be for so many years. There are many varieties of conservatives: Social conservatives who don't really give a crap about fiscal issues, fiscal conservatives who don't really give a crap about social issues, small-government conservatives, "little l" libertarian conservatives, Southpark conservatives, evangelical conservatives, etc. Then, you have whole tribes of single-issue conservatives: pro-life, pro-RKBA, illegal immigration, the list goes on.

There really isn't one single definition of "conservative" anymore.

22 posted on 10/18/2005 8:32:56 AM PDT by Terabitten (God grant me the strength to live a life worthy of those who have gone before me.)
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To: PaulaB
Conservative does not= integrity and respect

Neither does conservative=morally perfect. Or perfect in any way.

There are no "true conservatives". Some people believe in more conservative principles than others. Conservatism is not a monolithic block of exactly like-minded people.

Conservatism is like beauty --- there is no perfection, but eveybody has their own idea of what it is.

23 posted on 10/18/2005 8:33:02 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (9-11 is your Peace Dividend)
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To: Erik Latranyi
Amen! We are a political force that does not subscribe to a herd mentality. Instead, we put our support behind ideas based upon truth. If there are differences, it is because the availability of the full facts may be deficient--not each other!
24 posted on 10/18/2005 8:33:31 AM PDT by jonrick46
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To: Erik Latranyi

Exactly the divisive nonsense democrats love.


25 posted on 10/18/2005 8:33:35 AM PDT by DManA
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To: Erik Latranyi
Clearly you overlook the value of using "names". It is far more efficient and productive than to waste time and keystrokes beating around the bush.

Just bleat it all right out quick-like and we can then focus quality time on finding out about that missing teen in Aruba.

Oh, I almost forgot, Moron!

26 posted on 10/18/2005 8:33:44 AM PDT by corkoman (Uncompassionate Conservative, (incompassionate?, non-compassionate?))
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To: Erik Latranyi

I think we've become so sensitive to DUmmies coming in and infiltrating us, and this is our first major disagreement, that I'd be surprised if this didn't happen.

Now that we know where people of good faith can disagree, it's time to can the insults. DUmmies will still post easily-spotted, zot-worthy drivel :-)


27 posted on 10/18/2005 8:34:15 AM PDT by VictoryGal (Never give up, never surrender!)
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To: Erik Latranyi

Thank you for the article. And, I wholeheartedly agree.


28 posted on 10/18/2005 8:34:24 AM PDT by el_texicano (Liberals, Socialist, DemocRATS, all touchy, feely, mind numbed robots, useless idiots all)
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To: mysterio; Erik Latranyi

Great posts. Lets not let the liberals take us down their paths with filibustering and namecalling. Lets be conservatives and remain on the high road.

If we can'tcome to the truth with logic and fact, minus the name calling, then why bother. That does not mean that we cannot identify hypocritic acts and broken promises,by our so called leaders.

However, I reserve the right to use the term "presstitute". I just have to.


29 posted on 10/18/2005 8:34:26 AM PDT by HonestConservative (Bless our Servicemen!)
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To: F16Fighter
Ahem...In case you hadn't noticed, not all Freepers and Republicans are "conservative," but are in fact "compassionate conservatives" or RINOS who are "rolling" towards liberalism (or mushy-middle.)

On KSFO this AM they talking about this very topic. The Republican party is proving to not necessarily be the best vehicle for representation of conservatives, and that conservatives might just need to find another party.

30 posted on 10/18/2005 8:34:56 AM PDT by tertiary01 (For every Act of God, the Libs will demand a human sacrifice.)
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To: Erik Latranyi

With all due respect, this is not a new phenomenon at FR.


31 posted on 10/18/2005 8:35:00 AM PDT by Constitution Day
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To: Erik Latranyi
Oh, that's it you liberal troll weenie! ;)

Weenie!? I knew Weenie personally, and you're no Weenie!

32 posted on 10/18/2005 8:35:07 AM PDT by TChris ("The central issue is America's credibility and will to prevail" - Goh Chok Tong)
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To: aft_lizard

Explosion of government spending and continuation of the nanny state is conservatism? I don't think anyone can say that with a straight face. The fight is between Republicans who still think the party is somehow strategizing and conservatives who realize that they have been left behind.


33 posted on 10/18/2005 8:35:19 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: Erik Latranyi
This should be nice.


If you want a Google GMail account, FReepmail me.
Also, please see The Backside of American History
You'll love this 187 page .pdf (1.99 MB)

34 posted on 10/18/2005 8:35:43 AM PDT by rdb3 (Have you ever stopped to think, but forgot to start again?)
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To: yldstrk

*sigh*


35 posted on 10/18/2005 8:35:46 AM PDT by VictoryGal (Never give up, never surrender!)
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To: Erik Latranyi
I'm so tired of being a BOHICA Conservative for the republicans the past few years....

So you'll excuse me when I rant about more and more pork spending, entitlement growth, poor trade policies, poor border enforcement, and other such filth making its way through a Republican President and a Republican congress..

36 posted on 10/18/2005 8:35:57 AM PDT by N3WBI3 (If SCO wants to go fishing they should buy a permit and find a lake like the rest of us..)
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To: Erik Latranyi
I understand the anger and disappointment stemming from the Miers nomination, but also inclusive of the budget deficit, education department, immigration, etc. These are matters that bother me as well. Unfortunately, the tone on Free Republic bothers me even more.

There's your problem. The "tone" on an internet site bothers you more than the public rape of the U.S. Constitution. Your priorities are skewed.

37 posted on 10/18/2005 8:38:08 AM PDT by Sloth (We cannot defeat foreign enemies of the Constitution if we yield to the domestic ones.)
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To: Erik Latranyi

FR wouldn't be FR without the hysterical ranting.


38 posted on 10/18/2005 8:38:56 AM PDT by Kuksool
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To: Terabitten
There really isn't one single definition of "conservative" anymore.

Well! I see that I'm not alone with this thought.


If you want a Google GMail account, FReepmail me.
Also, please see The Backside of American History
You'll love this 187 page .pdf (1.99 MB)

39 posted on 10/18/2005 8:39:37 AM PDT by rdb3 (Have you ever stopped to think, but forgot to start again?)
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To: Erik Latranyi

Well I have great affection for all of my co-FReepers although we spout our differing opinions across the board.


40 posted on 10/18/2005 8:40:30 AM PDT by maxter
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To: Erik Latranyi
No offense, but you seem to have a rather idealized version of this forum. I've been here a loooong time, and have seen many a flame war. It comes and goes as the membership turns over and based on current events and hot-button issues.

Most of it is due to the nature of the medium. It is much easier to be rude and condescending behind the relative anonymity of a keyboard than it would be face-to-face. Also, even with HTML assistance in bold, italics, underline, etc., a text-only medium makes it difficult to use inflection, so cruder forms of expression have to be used.

41 posted on 10/18/2005 8:40:59 AM PDT by kevkrom ("Political looters" should be on sight)
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To: HonestConservative

Thanks for the posting of this thread. I believe we can disagree on issues and have solid, intellectual discussion threads about them. However, many of the threads here lately fall way short of those standards and we need to think before we write and remember that not every opinion we have needs to be uttered (I've certainly screwed up and said things I wish I hadn't)...Most of all, I believe we need to be praying hard for our President, for the difficult times which we are living in and for the big issues that are taking place.


42 posted on 10/18/2005 8:41:14 AM PDT by princess leah (\)
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To: TBP
Bushbots are not just anyone who backs Bush on Miers...

But calling them Bushbots does not get to the root of the problem, does it? It does not educate them, does it? It does not bring anyone to your side of the argument, does it?

No, name-calling is useless.

Why not try to explain why we believe in limited gov't? We do not believe in limited gov't so we can have a small deficit---we believe in limited gov't because gov't is not the answer (New Orleans).

Calling people Bushbots divides us and makes conservatism look like a club run by a few that casts out those who do not think like we do.

43 posted on 10/18/2005 8:41:28 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (9-11 is your Peace Dividend)
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To: rdb3

You're certainly not.


44 posted on 10/18/2005 8:42:09 AM PDT by Constitution Day (When life hands you lemons, just shut up and eat your damn lemons.)
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To: Erik Latranyi
Simply our discourse is degenerating. I am dismayed at the amount of name-calling taking place in these pages.

What a wanker.

45 posted on 10/18/2005 8:42:18 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam Factoid:After forcing young girls to watch his men execute their fathers, Muhammad raped them.)
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To: mysterio

Ping for later smackdown, have to go to school and work.


46 posted on 10/18/2005 8:43:01 AM PDT by aft_lizard (This space waiting for a post election epiphany it now is: Question Everything)
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To: Erik Latranyi

FRiendly FiRe haPPens. :}

47 posted on 10/18/2005 8:43:27 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Monthly Donor spoken Here. Go to ... https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Erik Latranyi
You are resorting to the lib tactic of.....some people are saying.

Use the first person and don't hide behind the word 'we' or 'some'.

48 posted on 10/18/2005 8:44:03 AM PDT by OldFriend (Corine Lombardo ~ American Patriot)
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To: Erik Latranyi

You're only conservative if you're for putting the Nat'l Guard on the border, putting up a wall, and deporting ALL illegals NOW...don't ya know?


49 posted on 10/18/2005 8:44:26 AM PDT by loreldan (Lincoln, Reagan, & G. W. Bush - the cure for Democrat lunacy.)
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To: mysterio

> Explosion of government spending and continuation of the nanny state is conservatism?

Anyone who knows my posts knows I agree with you about how far afield the Republican party has gone. But I think what the submitter is saying that when we do disagree about these things, we should leave the insults back in the playground.

My grandmother-- a true turn-of-the-century spitfire-- and I used to have knock-down drag out arguments over just about everything political under the sun. (This was during my brief-but-stupid obligatory teenage liberal period.) You can bet there was no name-calling or insults although it did get mighty passionate. Invariably during these sessions she'd stop, grab my hand, and say with shining eyes, "I **LOVE** a good argument!" Boy, do I miss her.

Argue with passion, but argue with respect. We're family.


50 posted on 10/18/2005 8:44:33 AM PDT by VictoryGal (Never give up, never surrender!)
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