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Spanish judge orders arrest of three US soldiers
Jerusalem Post ^ | Oct. 19, 2005 | AP

Posted on 10/19/2005 6:47:04 AM PDT by ScaniaBoy

A Spanish judge has issued an international arrest order for three US soldiers whose tank fired at a Baghdad hotel during the war in Iraq, killing a Spanish journalist, a court official said Wednesday.

Jose Couso, who worked for the Spanish television network Telecinco, died April 8, 2003, after the tank crew fired a shell at the Palestine Hotel in Baghdad where many journalists were staying to cover the war.

The Spanish judge said he issued the arrest order because of a lack of judicial cooperation from the United States regarding the case.

US officials insist the soldiers believed they were being shot at when they opened fire.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: dondeestaelcommies; iraqwar; spain; spainsucks; ussoldiers
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Many FReepers have feared the day when US soldiers are no longer going to be able to travel outside the US without risk of being prosecuted. It seems that day is coming closer.
1 posted on 10/19/2005 6:47:10 AM PDT by ScaniaBoy
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To: ScaniaBoy

... yeah, that's gonna fly...


2 posted on 10/19/2005 6:49:46 AM PDT by Michael Goldsberry (an enemy of islam -- Joe Boucher; Leapfrog; Dr.Zoidberg; Lazamataz; ...)
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To: ScaniaBoy

A large telescopic lens on a camera looks just like a rocket launcher from the front. Too bad, so sad, troops made the right call in a war zone, the new wuss Spaniards need to get over it.


3 posted on 10/19/2005 6:51:44 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly catching hell for posting without reading since 2004)
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To: ScaniaBoy

Spain needs another El Cid.


4 posted on 10/19/2005 6:52:07 AM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: ScaniaBoy

Which is why President Bush has-quite rightfully-rejected the International Criminal Court.


5 posted on 10/19/2005 6:52:26 AM PDT by Do not dub me shapka broham ("We don't want a Supreme Court justice just like George W. Bush. We can do better.")
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To: ScaniaBoy

Espania es no amigo. No cajones........


6 posted on 10/19/2005 6:52:30 AM PDT by Red Badger (In life, you don't get what you deserve. You get what you settle for...........)
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To: ScaniaBoy

> ... after the tank crew fired a shell at the Palestine
> Hotel in Baghdad where many journalists were staying
> to cover the war.

Booking into ground zero of an impending war is, um, risky.

> US officials insist the soldiers believed they were
> being shot at when they opened fire.

Or they might just have been extra insightful, and
recognized that the press is a real enemy.


7 posted on 10/19/2005 6:53:04 AM PDT by Boundless
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To: ScaniaBoy

Yeah right. We'll send 'em right on over there. We need a second request from the French on this.


8 posted on 10/19/2005 6:53:08 AM PDT by Chuck54 (Free Tom DeLay)
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To: sheik yerbouty

Spain needs another Ferdinand and Isabella.......


9 posted on 10/19/2005 6:53:42 AM PDT by Red Badger (In life, you don't get what you deserve. You get what you settle for...........)
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To: Boundless

The enemy was, in fact, firing from the Palestine Hotel.

A clue to our friends in the press. If you are standing next to somebody who is firing at US troops, then you are, at best, acting as a human shield for their operations. Do not be surprised when you receive return fire.


10 posted on 10/19/2005 6:56:17 AM PDT by gridlock (Nature started the fight for survival, and now she wants to quit because she's losing... Monty Burns)
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To: Abathar

You would think that grown up people would understand that people are killed in a war zone. Either you take the risk or you keep away.


11 posted on 10/19/2005 6:56:41 AM PDT by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: ScaniaBoy; fastattacksailor; swordfish71; broadsword; Nesher; Fred Nerks; jan in Colorado; ...
It's a WAR ZONE! Stuff happens....perhaps if they had stayed indoors and not tried for a "good shot" from the balcony, a "good shot" from a tank, under and expecting more enemy attacks, would not have occurred.

Can you believe this? PING!

12 posted on 10/19/2005 6:56:41 AM PDT by Former Dodger ( "Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." --Einstein)
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To: sheik yerbouty


El Cid

Catholic Encyclopedia on CD-ROM
Contains 11,632 articles. Browse off-line, ad-free, printer-friendly.
Get it here for only $29.95

(Rodrigo, or Ruy, Diaz, Count of Bivar).

The great popular hero of the chivalrous age of Spain, born at Burgos c. 1040; died at Valencia, 1099. He was given the title of seid or cid (lord, chief) by the Moors and that of campeador (champion) by his admiring countrymen.

Tradition and legend have cast a deep shadow over the history of this brave knight, to such an extent that his very existence has been questioned; there is however, no reason to doubt his existence. We must, at the same time regard him as a dual personality, and distinguish between the historical Cid and the legendary Cid. History paints him as a free booter, an unprincipled adventurer, who battled with equal vigour against Christians and Moors; who, to further his own ends, would as soon destroy a Christian church as a Moslem temple; who plundered and slew as much for his own gain as from any patriotic motives. It must be born in mind, however that the facts which discredit him have reached us through hostile Arab historians, and that to do him full justice he should be judged according to the standard of his country in his day. Vastly different indeed is the Cid of romance, legend, and ballad, wherein he is pictured as the tender, loving husband and father; the gentle courageous soldier; the noble, generous conqueror, unswervingly loyal to his country and his king; the man whose name has been an ever-present inspiration to Spanish patriotism. But whatever may have been the real adventures of El Cid Campeador, his name has come down to us in modern times in connection with a long series of heroic achievements in which he stands out as the central figure of the long struggle of Christian Spain against the Moslem hosts.

Ferdinand I, at his death (1065), had divided his dominions between his three sons, Sancho, Alfonso, and Garcia, and his two daughters, Elvira and Urraca, exacting from them a promise that they would respect his wishes and abide by the division. But Sancho, to whose lot had fallen the Kingdom of Castile, being the eldest, thought that he should have inherited the entire dominions of his father, and he resolved to repudiate his promise, claiming that it had been forced from him. Stronger, braver, and craftier than his brothers, he cherished the idea of despoiling them and his sisters of their possessions, and becoming the sole successor of his father.

At this time, Rodrigo Diaz was quite young, and Sancho, out of gratitude for the services of Rodrigo's father to the State, had retained his son at the court and looked after his education, especially his military training. Rodrigo later rendered such distinguished services in the war in which Sancho became involved with Aragon that he was made alferez (standard-bearer or commander-in-chief) of the king's troops. After ending this war with Aragon, Sancho turned his attention to his plan of despoiling his brothers and sisters (c. 1070). He succeeded in adding to his dominion Leon and Galicia, the portions of his brothers, but not until in each instance Rodrigo had come to his rescue and turned apparent defeat into victory. The city of Toro, the domain of his sister Elvira, was taken without trouble. He then laid siege to the city of Zamora, the portion of his sister Urraca, and there met his fate, being treacherously slain before the gates of the city by one of Urraca's soldiers (1072). Learning this, Alfonso who had been exiled to the Moorish city of Toledo, set out in haste to claim the dominions of his brother, and succeeded him on the throne as Alfonso VI, though not without opposition, from his brother Garcia, in Galicia, and especially in Castile, the inhabitants of which objected to a Leonese king. The story is told, though not on the best historical authority, that the Castilians refused Alfonso their allegiance until he had sworn that he had no hand in his brother's death, and that, as none of the nobles was willing to administer the oath for fear of offending him, Rodrigo did so at Santa Gadea before the assembled nobility. If this be true, it would account in a great measure for the ill-will Alfonso bore Rodrigo, and for his subsequent treatment of him. He did not at first show his hatred, but tried to conciliate Rodrigo and the Castilians by bestowing upon him his niece Jimena in marriage (1074). It was not long, however, before he had an opportunity to satisfy his animosity. Rodrigo having been sent by Alfonso to collect tribute from the king of Seville, Alfonso's vassal, he was accused on his return, by his enemies of having retained a part of it. Whereupon, Alfonso, giving free rein to his hatred, banished him from his dominions (1076). Rodrigo then began his career as a soldier of fortune, which has furnished themes to Spanish poets of early modern times, and which, idealized by tradition and legend, has made of him the champion of Christian Spain against her Moorish invaders. During this period of his career, he offered his services and those of his followers first to one petty ruler and then another, and often fought on his own account, warring indifferently against Christians and Moors, always with distinguished success, and incidentally rising to great power and influence. But in time of necessity his assistance was sought by Alfonso, and in the midst of career of conquest he hastened to the latter's support when he was hard pressed by Yusuf, the founder of Morocco. Through some mistake or misunderstanding, however, he failed to join the king, who listening to the complaints and accusations of the Cid's enemies, took from him all of his possessions, imprisoned his wife and children, and again banished him for his dominions. Disgraced and plundered, the Cid resumed his military operations. Upon his return from one of his campaigns, hearing that the Moors had driven the Christians from Valencia and taken possession of the city, he determined to recapture it from them and become lord of that capital. This he did (1094) after a terrible siege. He spent the remainder of his days there. His two daughters were married to the Infante of Navarre and the Count of Barcelona respectively. His remains were transferred to the monastery of San Pedro de Cardena near Burgos, where they now rest.

The exploits of El Cid form the subject of what is generally considered the oldest monument of Spanish literature. This is an epic poem of a little over 3700 lines as it has reached us (several hundred lines being missing), the author of which, as is not uncommon with works of those days, is unknown. The date of its composition has long been a disputed question. Many critics whose names must be mentioned with respect, among them Dozy and Ticknor, place it at the beginning of the thirteenth century; but today the best opinion places the poem a half-century earlier. Among those who think it was written as early as the middle of twelfth century are many eminent Spanish and foreign scholars, including Sanchez, the first editor of the poem, Capmany, Quintana, Gil y Zarate, Bouterwek, Sismondi, Shlegel, Huber, and Wolf. The learned Amador de los Rios, whose opinion carries great weight, thinks that the famous poem must have been written prior to 1157. Though based upon historical facts, the "Poema del Cid" is to a very large extent legendary. Its theme is twofold, the adventures of the exiled Cid and the mythical marriage of his two daughters to the Counts of Carrion. The first few pages are missing, and what remains opens abruptly with the banishment of the Cid by King Alfonso, and ends with a slight allusion to the hero's death. But the story it tells is not its chief claim to our consideration. The poem deserves to be read for its faithful pictures of the manners and customs of the day it represents. It is written with Homeric simplicity and in the language of the day, the language the Cid himself used, which was slowly divorcing itself from the Latin, but was still only half developed. The versification is rather crude and ill-sustained. The prevailing metre is the Alexandrine or fourteen syllabled verse with a caesural pause after the eighth; but the lines often run into sixteen or even twenty syllables, and sometimes stop at twelve or ten. This however, may be partly due to careless copying.

The adventures of the Cid have furnished material for many dramatic writers, notably to Guillen de Castro, the eminent Valencian poet and dramatist of the early seventeenth century, whose masterpiece, "Las Mocedades del Cid" earned him whatever reputation he enjoyed outside of Spain. This latter work, in turn, furnished the basis for Corneille's brilliant tragedy, "Le Cid", which according to Ticknor, did more than any other drama to determine for two centuries the character of the theatre all over the continent of Europe. Among other works dealing with the life and adventures of the Cid are:

* "La Legenda de las Mocedades de Rodrigo", or "La Crónica Rimada", as it is sometimes called. This work has been thought to be even older than the "Poema del Cid" by some critics, among them so eminent authority as Amador de los Ríos.
* "La Crónica General ó Estoria de España", written by Alfonso the Wise.
* "La Crónica del Cid", the manuscript of which was found in the very place where the Cid lies buried, the monastery of San Pedro de Cardeña. Its author and the time of its appearance are unknown


13 posted on 10/19/2005 6:57:37 AM PDT by Red Badger (In life, you don't get what you deserve. You get what you settle for...........)
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To: ScaniaBoy

Es la guerra senor juez!!


14 posted on 10/19/2005 6:59:18 AM PDT by bubman
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To: ScaniaBoy

Come and get them...


15 posted on 10/19/2005 7:00:40 AM PDT by gridlock (Nature started the fight for survival, and now she wants to quit because she's losing... Monty Burns)
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To: ScaniaBoy

By name, or just "those in that tank" kinda order? Spain would lose a war to Girl Scouts if that is how they think a war should be waged; lawyers in every tank.


16 posted on 10/19/2005 7:01:30 AM PDT by CodeToad
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To: ScaniaBoy

The Spanish judge can kiss his butt and his gay boyfriend goodbye as far as I'm concerned.

(I don't really know if he has a gay boyfriend, but that's how Spain is becoming these days...Liberal and gay friendly.)


17 posted on 10/19/2005 7:02:06 AM PDT by BushisTheMan
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To: ScaniaBoy
Here's a relatively realistic scenario:

A US soldier takes a vacation to the Caribbean and books his tickets online with Expedia or some such company.

One of these island governments requests lists of customers traveling to their country for security purposes.

The island government has a relationship with Spain and tips Spain to the soldier's travel plans.

Spain quietly works with the island's gov't to extradite the soldier once he arrives.

The soldier arrives, passport control says there's a problem with his passport, asks him to step into an office while they check their paperwork and an island detective then cuffs him and escorts him on the next flight to Barcelona.

18 posted on 10/19/2005 7:03:52 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: ScaniaBoy

Sound and fury, signifying nothing.


19 posted on 10/19/2005 7:03:57 AM PDT by SilentServiceCPOWife
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To: ScaniaBoy

STFU spain. It is a WAR ZONE after all.


20 posted on 10/19/2005 7:08:55 AM PDT by Paul_Denton (Stom ta jora Oom (Translation: Shut the F*** up UN))
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To: ScaniaBoy
How come there are no indictments against Iraqui Fedayeens for the murder of journalists during the war??

Hipocritas todos. Los españoles son una imitación pálida de sus mismo anteriores. Vaya a tomar por culo maricones de mierda!!!

21 posted on 10/19/2005 7:10:24 AM PDT by bubman
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To: wideawake

Next step:

Seals and Marines attack Spain and rescue the soldier, sadly killing 15,000 Spanish civilians. Lots of international complaints, but nothing comes of them. Judge and Spanish government are changed by their people because they were stupid enough to attack the U.S.

End of problem.


22 posted on 10/19/2005 7:10:48 AM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: BushisTheMan

A better insult would be to say that Spanish Judge has lost his masculinity and is a limp wristed girlie man.


23 posted on 10/19/2005 7:10:48 AM PDT by Rebelbase (""As far as I can tell, she (Miers) is every bit as conservative as George Bush." --NCsteve (FR))
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To: AFPhys

The Spanish have all the reason in the world to remember the man who said this:

"Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far"

It would be good for them if they listened to that advice as well.


24 posted on 10/19/2005 7:14:30 AM PDT by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: Leapfrog

This is great chance for President Bush to come out strongly and denounce this stuff...

Cmon, Bush, you have got to have a whole lot of anger pent up over every little bit of crapola that is being thrown at you...take it all and tell the Spanish idiots where they can stuff their arrest warrants!


25 posted on 10/19/2005 7:15:08 AM PDT by Txsleuth (Please say a prayer, and hold positive thoughts for Texas Cowboy...and Faith.)
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To: CodeToad
lawyers in on every tank

Now it sounds like a good idea. Extra ablative armor never hurt anyone.

26 posted on 10/19/2005 7:16:45 AM PDT by magslinger (At the end of the day the only truly educated people are autodidacts.)
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To: Red Badger

Charles "The Hammer" Martell.


27 posted on 10/19/2005 7:18:43 AM PDT by ghitma (Lifter)
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To: ScaniaBoy

With friends like Spain,who needs enemies?Am i to assume that these men can be arrested and prosecuted in Spain,or is this a worldwide warrant?


28 posted on 10/19/2005 7:30:13 AM PDT by Thombo2
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To: Thombo2; AFPhys

It says that he issued an "international arrest order".

Given the EU-wide extradition treaty to be on the safe side I don't think those soldiers should visit any EU country.

OTH see post #22


29 posted on 10/19/2005 7:35:12 AM PDT by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: ScaniaBoy

And the terrorists have a complete victory in Spain.


30 posted on 10/19/2005 7:40:29 AM PDT by SmithL (There are a lot of people that hate Bush more than they hate terrorists)
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To: ScaniaBoy

Were these the same soldiers who fired a tank shell that did almost a 180 degree turn in mid air and hit the back side of the hotel?


31 posted on 10/19/2005 7:42:02 AM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult
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To: ScaniaBoy
GOOOOOOOOOD Morning Madrid......

Image hosted by Photobucket.com

32 posted on 10/19/2005 7:45:09 AM PDT by WilliamWallace1999
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To: ScaniaBoy

In other news: Spanish wine and other exports to the USA take a dramatic dive at time when the Spanish economy is beginning to mirror Germany and France.


33 posted on 10/19/2005 7:45:33 AM PDT by schaketo (Not all who wander are lost)
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To: wideawake

An all too likely scenario except it could happen with any country with an extradition treaty with Spain or the EU. These troops will not be able to leave the US in safety unless Bush takes action to force Spain to rescind this order.


34 posted on 10/19/2005 7:45:44 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: wideawake

"The soldier arrives, passport control says there's a problem with his passport, asks him to step into an office while they check their paperwork and an island detective then cuffs him and escorts him on the next flight to Barcelona."

Theoretically, maybe. In actuality, not a chance. Liberals and US haters are good at finding activist judges who will pull crap like issuing an arrest warrant like this. Spain's govenment might do some political posturing, but neither Spain, nor some little Caribian country is going to abduct a US citizen under the guise of a criminal trial for an incident that has already been reviewed by the US military.

That would likely be considered an act of war.


35 posted on 10/19/2005 7:52:30 AM PDT by untrained skeptic
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To: ScaniaBoy

Hay Judge....remember the Spanish American War? Maybe you need to go read back up on it. What shall we take this time? Toledo? Or just go straight for Madrid and remove the socialist cancer there?


36 posted on 10/19/2005 8:03:34 AM PDT by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: untrained skeptic

Exactly. Did'nt spain learn its lesson last time when we were a much weaker nation a.k.a. the Spanish/American war. The tank commander probably thought they were being aimed at with an Anti-Tank missle or rpg and took a counter measure attack to eliminate the threat. I dont blame the soldiers its your life or the enemies in a hot zone, only idiots would think otherwise.


37 posted on 10/19/2005 8:05:29 AM PDT by MARKUSPRIME
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To: Do not dub me shapka broham

Except where we support it, for example the 5 year trial of Milosovic (they can't pin him on the main charges so they'll keep trying him until they get lucky or everyone dies of old age) who was defending his people from Islamic Jihadies.


38 posted on 10/19/2005 8:05:57 AM PDT by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: jb6

See my post #24.

The author of those words: Theodore Roosevelt


39 posted on 10/19/2005 8:08:17 AM PDT by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: wideawake

Very true but the diplomatic shiete storm and embargo on Spanish goods and tourism will cause them more grief then its worth in the long run. Might even be a catalyst to change governments. But the Islamics will love them long time.


40 posted on 10/19/2005 8:08:48 AM PDT by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: wideawake
The soldier arrives, passport control says there's a problem with his passport, asks him to step into an office while they check their paperwork and an island detective then cuffs him and escorts him on the next flight to Barcelona.

Continuing Post 18:

Shortly thereafter, the skys over Barcelona fill with B52s. Spain is given 15 minutes to put soldier back on plane to USA or start digging mass graves. P.S. You can use the B52 bomb craters for starters.

This of course would be the scenario if we had a president with a set to threaten this.

41 posted on 10/19/2005 8:15:24 AM PDT by RetiredArmy (Socialist Dems, the MSM and Islamic murderers, ALL threats to the Republic!)
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To: ScaniaBoy

If you go into a "WAR ZONE" to make lots of cash in a "HOSTILE AND DANGEROUS" place as a journalist, you might get killed. That is a fact!

The Germans, Brits, US, French and others had reporters die. It's like going to a race track getting in a race car and if you get killed your family suing the Formula one car builder. You went there completely voluntarily for reasons of "FAME and FORTUNE". If you die in the process, while truly tragic for you, it's your problem.

Had Heraldo gotten shot in the head in Afghanistan or Iraq, it would have been on him. I bet if you asked him and he answered truthfully you’d find out that he knows this as well.

So why do judges do this then? Why this type of legal case? Because Spain went anti-war after the Spanish elections and these issues ALL become political battles in essence. Example is the Italian reporter whose rescuer was shot dead. It was turned into a political issue by the socialist movement in Italy. Lets think about this. I go to Iraq as a agent to rescue someone from terrorists (In reality I’m paying ransom). Do you think this is dangerous? Yes, it is, in case you didn’t know. Especially if you can’t use headlights, don’t follow instructions and no one knows who you are and where you’re going (Because Italy does not want to advertise that they pay ransom for hostages).

This judge will continue to fall on death ears UNLESS the MSM and some bleeding heart liberal in the US pick up on it and use it for THEIR political ulterior motives.

BLUF = You do dangerous things, you may die.

Red6


42 posted on 10/19/2005 8:15:34 AM PDT by Red6
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To: bubman

Yeah! What...you...said...


43 posted on 10/19/2005 8:16:51 AM PDT by Edgerunner (Proud to be an infidel)
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To: ScaniaBoy

I'd like to see the Spanish try to enforce that order. What a joke.


44 posted on 10/19/2005 8:17:59 AM PDT by moose2004 (You Can Run But You Can't Hide!)
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To: ScaniaBoy

What part of NO JURISDICTION does Socialist Eurotrash have a hard time understanding?


45 posted on 10/19/2005 8:23:10 AM PDT by Rosemont
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To: Truth29
"These troops will not be able to leave the US in safety unless Bush takes action to force Spain to rescind this order."

Every kook foreign judge shouldn’t have a right to Bush’s time. State probably only needs to get involved if they're pursued, and it might contribute negatively to relations either way.

46 posted on 10/19/2005 8:23:26 AM PDT by elfman2
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To: ScaniaBoy

My son, a Junior at Wm & Mary, (and a recent returnee from Afghanistan) says the LTC in this cock-up is a math teacher there. Time to circle the wagons.


47 posted on 10/19/2005 8:26:58 AM PDT by Snickersnee (Where are we going? And what's with this handbasket?)
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To: elfman2

OK, total boycott of everything from al Andalus, staring NOW!

We are one people, and we will back up our soldiers!


48 posted on 10/19/2005 8:28:00 AM PDT by CondorFlight
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To: ScaniaBoy
Hmmmm. If I got into a car, which I knew had faulty brakes, and I drove it 70mph on the highway...Do you think, maybe, I should expect to have an accident?

Here's a newsflash: If a reporter chooses to stay at a hotel in a war zone, probability is high that he or she may be injured or killed. They chose to be there...they are responsible for whatever happens to them.

49 posted on 10/19/2005 8:35:32 AM PDT by I'm ALL Right! (WWW.ENDOFTHESPEAR.COM - A True Story. In theaters Jan 20, 2006. Click my profile.)
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To: ScaniaBoy

My son, a Junior at Wm & Mary, (and a recent returnee from Afghanistan) says the LTC in this cock-up is a math teacher there. Time to circle the wagons.


50 posted on 10/19/2005 8:35:39 AM PDT by Snickersnee (Where are we going? And what's with this handbasket?)
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