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A Polite Society (gun owners)
The Omegaletter ^ | Oct. 19, 2005 | Jack Kinsella

Posted on 10/19/2005 12:59:27 PM PDT by txgirl4Bush

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To: txgirl4Bush
That is not to say I am an advocate of returning to the era of vigilante justice as handed down from the barrel of a .44 Colt

A .44 Colt? I guess there were some in .44 S&W, but wasn't the .45 Colt much, much more common. These days it would be hard to say which caliber it would be, but I would still go with a Colt caliber, .45 Automatic Colt Pistol (ACP). Ballistics are similar to the old .45 Colt, now called the "Long Colt". It got 'er done then, it can git 'er done now.

21 posted on 10/19/2005 2:55:05 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: jim_trent
Actually, I have met some obnoxious, loud-mouthed, louts at the gunrange. They seem to be self-acknowledged experts on everything. so have I and everywhere else the grass grows green. Whats your point? The polite part comes when the some stupid jackass has to think twice before breaking into a house or carjacking you if they are not sure you are armed or not. The whole armed society thing only works in a true 'libertarian' society where if you insult the virtue of my bride...and I shoot you down like the dog you have proved yourself to be. Then everyone just shakes there head and says "he had it coming" and thats it. If I am armed today and do the same thing...I go to jail and all my possessions are summarily removed by some sleaze bag lawyer. So just being armed is not enough, its a whole mindset(whose time has come).
22 posted on 10/19/2005 2:59:51 PM PDT by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" R. A. Heinlein)
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To: GrandEagle
It ruled (could have been an opinion of the court) that the Guard is routinely sent overseas and therefore could not be the militia

The Guard is only the militia, or part of it that is, when serving in their state role. Once they are federalized, they are part of the Army or Air Force. We say they are "dual hatted". In point of fact, all Guardsmen are members of the reserve of the appropriate federal service, as well as members of the National Guard of their state.

When I became an Air National Guardsman, I did not need to get a new ID card, as the ID card was the same as I carried as an Air Force Reservists. I did need to take a new commissioning oath, to the state as well as to the federal Constitution.

23 posted on 10/19/2005 3:01:22 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: Javelina
Every Swiss citizen is required to both own, and be proficient with, his own gun.

Actually they are not required to own them, they are issued with them. (Men only BTW). They are required to maintain the issued sealed tin of ammunition at the ready as well. Subsidized or Ammunition is available though, and they are required to show some degree of proficiency periodically. All this is because they are in what amounts to the Army, or more correctly the militia. They have to "drill" periodically. When they complete their required militia service, and it's decades long, they are allowed to buy the weapon for a nominal amount.

Shooting contests are still quite popular however, and it's nothing to see a group of youngsters, of both sexes, with rifles over their shoulders on public transportation. (not so) Strangely they haven't had much problem with the Jihadies, even though they have a substantial Muslim "guest worker" population. :)

At one time, but AFAIK no longer, you had to show up with your rifle, or you couldn't vote! Our original militia system was modeled on theirs.

24 posted on 10/19/2005 3:16:42 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: El Gato
Thanks, I never went into the active reserves.
My suspicion is that they are part of the militia only to the extent that they are males between certain ages. I'll have to look up my information on this. I've got it somewhere - buried where I wouldn't loose it - you know how that goes. I've probably not lost it, but I'll never be able to find it! :)

Cordially,
GE
25 posted on 10/19/2005 3:19:45 PM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: Redcloak
And had evidence been presented to show the sawed-off shotgun was a suitable weapon for Militia use, the NFA's restrictions against such guns may have been struck down.

It's really too bad that Miller and his Partner weren't big time gangsters, even at the level of Bonnie and Clyde. If they were ,they'd have had Thompsons or BARs, or both. Even the Supreme Court would likely have ruled that it was permissible to "take judicial notice" that those were suitable for military/militia use.

26 posted on 10/19/2005 3:20:32 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: Vaquero
So just being armed is not enough, its a whole mindset(whose time has come).

AMEN!
I had to chuckle at my brothers wedding some years ago. I was his best man. All 6 of the grooms men and I were standing around the punch bowl socializing at the reception when the subject turned to firearms. As it turned out all seven of us were armed. Two had ankle holsters, the rest of us shoulder holsters. The ushers were also armed. No one had discussed it, nor was it planned. It is just the "mindset" of the group. I felt very safe.
In the group that I "hang out" (so to speak) with, rarely will you find someone unarmed unless we are at work. I travel in and out of manufacturing plants - most of which forbid firearms. There is one in my truck though.
Kinda like underwear - We don't leave home without it!

Cordially,
GE
27 posted on 10/19/2005 3:29:13 PM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: El Gato

There was already evidence, though none presented in court, that a sawed-off shotgun has military application. "Trench guns" were used during WWI and, AFAIK, were in the Army's arsenal at the time.


28 posted on 10/19/2005 4:12:12 PM PDT by Redcloak (We'll raise up our glasses against evil forces singin' "whiskey for my men and beer for my horses!")
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To: GrandEagle
My suspicion is that they are part of the militia only to the extent that they are males between certain ages

Active reservists are part of the militia, except when in a duty status, on either inactive or active duty. The same is true of inactive reservists, but they never are in a duty status, unless they are recalled, in which case they are no longer in inactive status. The terminology is a bit confusing, with "active/inactive" duty easily confused with active or inactive status. Active status means participating some amount per year. Inactive status means you are on a list for call up. In my case I'm on the Retired Reserve list of the Air Force (it says so right here on this nice framed certificate I have beside me), but without sufficient career points to be eligible for retired pay, now or when I turn 65. Active duty means well on active duty, full time, drawing pay and benefits proportional to the time served on active duty. Active Duty can be for training (as in two week annual training) or can be for other reasons, such a call up, or so called "man days", to either aid the active force, or for strictly reserve force administration or other none training matters. Inactive duty is the classic "weekend" duty, although in reality it need not be on the weekend. Drills are 4 hours long, for which the member is paid a full day's pay, but does not get any benefits, such as BAQ, or BAS. You get one point for each drill, paid or unpaid, plus one for each day of active duty. Plus you get 15 points per year for participation. Points can also be earned by taking correspondence courses. I took Squadron Officers School and an Intelligence Officer's course that way.

29 posted on 10/19/2005 4:14:26 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: txgirl4Bush

"A relative handful of well-armed and motivated citizens can hold even the most powerful military forces at bay."

Shoot, sometimes you don't even need a 'handful" Sometimes one skinny kid will do:


CASAMENTO, ANTHONY

Rank and organization: Corporal, Company D, First Battalion, Fifth Marines, First Marine Division.

Place and date: Guadalcanal, Solomon Islands.

Entered service at: Brooklyn, New York. Date and place of

Birth: 16 November 1920, Brooklyn, New York. For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving with Company D, 1st Battalion, 5th Marines, 1st Marine Division on Guadalcanal, British Solomon Islands, in action against the enemy Japanese forces on 1 November 1942. Serving as a leader of a machine gun section, Corporal Casamento directed his unit to advance along a ridge near the Matanikau River where they engaged the enemy. He positioned his section to provide covering fire for two flanking units and to provide direct support for the main force of his company which was behind him. During the course of this engagement, all members of his section were either killed or severely wounded and he himself suffered multiple, grievous wounds. Nonetheless, Corporal Casamento continued to provide critical supporting fire for the attack and in defense of his position. Following the loss of all effective personnel, he set up, loaded, and manned his unit's machine gun. tenaciously holding the enemy forces at bay. Corporal Casamento single-handedly engaged and destroyed one machine gun emplacement to his front and took under fire the other emplacement on the flank. Despite the heat and ferocity of the engagement, he continued to man his weapon and repeatedly repulsed multiple assaults by the enemy forces, thereby protecting the flanks of the adjoining companies and holding his position until the arrival of his main attacking force. Corporal Casamento's courageous fighting spirit, heroic conduct, and unwavering dedication to duty reflected great credit upon himself and were in keeping with the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United States Naval Service.

RIP Mr. Casamento


30 posted on 10/19/2005 4:18:25 PM PDT by TalBlack
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To: Redcloak
There was already evidence, though none presented in court, that a sawed-off shotgun has military application.

Of course there was, but the Supreme Court ruled that the lower court should not have taken judicial notice of that evidence without it being presented in Court. The case had been thrown out before the trial, based on the Unconstitutionality of the law. The Supreme Court overruled that and returned the case to the lower court for further proceedings. However by then Miller was dead, found in a creek with his 1911, with some rounds fired. His partner had plea bargained for a lessor charge, and thus no further proceedings were held. If they had been, such evidence could have been presented in, or in support of, a new motion to throw out the indictment.

IOW, Miller is a darn thin reed upon which the massive edifice of modern gun control us built, at the federal level at least.

31 posted on 10/19/2005 4:20:46 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: Mr. Mojo
This past weekend the History Channel had a program on about Hitler's henchmen and they discussed this planned invasion. Hitler was pushing hard for an invasion of Switzerland and plans were drawn up for the assault, but all of Hitler's top generals were against the plan. They knew what would happen if they tried to invade the Swiss Alps. Keitel, who was the ultimate yes-man, was even against this plan and managed to dissuade Hitler from ordering the invasion.
32 posted on 10/19/2005 4:26:45 PM PDT by Stonewall Jackson ("Those who fail to study history are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past.")
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To: txgirl4Bush
From the article: "Had John Muhammed and Lee Malvo had to worry about whether or not every person they saw might be armed with a weapon, the killing spree might never have begun. "

Well ... let's not get too carried away.

The sniping of random people from a concealed position in the trunk of an automobile is going to be nearly the perfect crime whenever it occurs.

Malvo, if I recall correctly, had allowed some ballistic evidence to be found at a crime scene unrelated to the sniping that made him a suspect.

If those two killers had confined their activities to just sniping randomly and had chosen a wider geographic area, and finally had allowed a cooling off period between every three or four snipings, we might still be looking for them.

Many serial killers have longer strings of murders and lasted so long because they had no connection to their victims. For that same reason, the victims had no reason to fear attack and no opportunity to answer it.

The reason such crimes don't occur very frequently is because it is extremely irrational.

33 posted on 10/19/2005 11:51:43 PM PDT by William Tell (Put the RKBA on the California Constitution - Volunteer through rkba.members.sonic.net)
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To: GrandEagle
funny you mentioned lawyers....my wedding 25 years ago in a couple of weeks. was held in Queens NY with the reception in Brooklyn.

I noticed my cousins husband, a city cop had an ankle holster on.

A few days later I brought it up in conversation with my father in law. a self professed trade unionist and serial democrat. He was furious and told me he would have booted him out if he knew. I quietly reminded him that in the crappy neighborhoods that he had scheduled our wedding in we should have been thankful that a trained armed person was there to provide some defense if needed, this socialist mecca of NY City does not allow ordinary citizens to carry. But of course this went on deaf ears.
34 posted on 10/20/2005 3:09:48 AM PDT by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" R. A. Heinlein)
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To: Vaquero
funny you mentioned lawyers LOL!

I just noticed you are from New York. A couple of years ago I had a project in Waterford, NY - just outside of Albany. That was the only trip where I didn't carry my weapon with me. I felt a bit like I had forgotten my socks. Although the people were great, I felt uneasy the whole trip.
Down here anyone without a criminal record can carry (you still have to have your permission slip (CC permit)) from the Sheriff, but he wouldn't stay in office long if he restricted concealed carry. I don't have "official" figures but I would guess that 10%-15% of the folks you run into are carrying. In my peer group it is probably 50%. If you carry without your permission slip, and you are not committing a crime with the weapon, it is a misdemeanor much like a traffic ticket. If you decide to fight it you will win because the grand jury will never indict you.
However, if you use a firearm to commit a crime, and the "victim" doesn't get you first, you are in very big legal trouble.

Anyway, my stay in Waterford was great! I really enjoyed it. The folks at the plant were most hospitable and the weather was great! I missed an opportunity for a tour of the state capitol building (another FReeper works there) due to work. I got to see Fort Ticonderoga. I'm looking forward to another project up there.

Cordially,
GE
35 posted on 10/20/2005 5:27:50 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: Vaquero

Sounds like you may be one of them. Some people's REAL hobby is arguing. Whether or not it is about guns, Fords v Chevy, the weather or something else is secondary.

The Internet is perfect for that, isn't it. In fact, it is proof that Heinlein was right. The opposite of an armed society is the Internet. Anything can be said without worry of physical retaliation. So more arguments are started here than in any medium I can think of.


36 posted on 10/20/2005 5:28:09 AM PDT by jim_trent
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To: jim_trent

I will pause to ponder that.

interesting point.

BTW I like Mopars over Fords and chevy's.


37 posted on 10/20/2005 5:47:58 AM PDT by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" R. A. Heinlein)
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