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ADF Intervenes, School Gives Wearer of Pro-Life Sweatshirts 'Green Light'
Agape Press ^ | 11/4/05 | Jim Brown

Posted on 11/05/2005 11:11:51 AM PST by wagglebee

A Georgia high school has decided against censoring a student's pro-life expression on his clothing.

Senior Brian Ramirez was recently forced to serve an in-school suspension for wearing sweatshirts with messages such as "Abortion is homicide" and "She is a child, not a choice." The student also was penalized with a zero grade for each day's lab missed while in suspension, and informed that for each day he continued to wear clothing bearing a pro-life message he would remain on suspension.

But after the Alliance Defense Fund intervened on his behalf and threatened to file a federal lawsuit against the school, Ramirez was allowed to wear the shirts without detention. His ADF attorney, David Cortman, says officials at Maxwell High School of Technology in Lawrenceville acknowledged their error -- promptly.

"It's always interesting to see how schools respond when they're called on the carpet on these things," Cortman says, "but the good part about the response [is that] it was very quick in coming -- it was pretty much immediately after we sent our letter."

According to the attorney, the school basically said while it has established policies that require no material to be obscene or offensive, Ramirez's sweatshirts did not violate any of those policies. Cortman adds that the school stated, in so many words -- "We were mistaken. We'll erase everything from your record." The lawyer believes the school was right to admit its mistake -- and to avoid possible allegations of maintaining a double standard.

"Whether it's done out of ignorance or whether it's done intentionally, the problem here is you have students in Brian's school who are wearing shirts promoting drugs, that are sexually suggestive -- and of course the administration never says anything about those," he says.

"But the minute someone stands up for life and has a T-shirt that someone may not agree with, they're the ones who are singled out and put into in-school suspension."

Cortman says schools should be educating their students about the First Amendment -- not violating it. "It should be clear by now that the First Amendment does not contain exemptions against unpopular speech," he adds.

Administrators had told Ramirez that the pro-life messages were offensive to certain teachers at the school.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Georgia
KEYWORDS: abortion; adf; alliancedefensefund; censorship; firstamendment; freespeech; infanticide; prolife; schools; tshirt
Administrators had told Ramirez that the pro-life messages were offensive to certain teachers at the school.

I don't really care if Marxists are offended. What I do find offensive is the 40 million+ infants that have been butchered in this country over the last three decades.

1 posted on 11/05/2005 11:11:54 AM PST by wagglebee
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To: cpforlife.org; Coleus; little jeremiah; DirtyHarryY2K

Ping.


2 posted on 11/05/2005 11:12:32 AM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee
To me, the thing that is pertinent here is there is no way to state the message on his shirt is false.
It is not a matter of opinion, it is a fact and that should send a strong message to the kids who are led to believe it is about "privacy" rather than murder.
3 posted on 11/05/2005 11:16:01 AM PST by msnimje ("People for the American Way have issued a Fatwah against Alito" --- John Cornyn)
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To: wagglebee
Good for Brian for standing up for himself and thanks to ADF for their work.
4 posted on 11/05/2005 11:16:29 AM PST by Mulch (tm)
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To: wagglebee
I read a very disturbing study about the statistics of abortion and the 2000 election, had abortion been still be outlawed then President Bush statistically would have lost easily to Gore, or even to Kerry for that matter.
If we ban it again then it is just a matter of time before the non-aborted get old enough to demand it be done again. Then their numbers drop, we win again and their numbers increase until they vote it in again, talk about a sick circle of life...
5 posted on 11/05/2005 11:20:36 AM PST by Abathar (Proudly catching hell for posting without reading since 2004)
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To: msnimje

I would be inclined to say that a shirt showing an aborted fetus would probably be inappropriate to wear in in school (although I strongly believe that these images, however upsetting they may be to some, should be seen by high school students). Short of that, I fail to see the problem. What I find most alarming is the fact that it is now "fashionable" for students to wear shirts with pictures of Che Guevara, who personally murdered hundreds and was responsible for the death and torture of thousands; however, I have yet to see wear schools are banning these shirts.


6 posted on 11/05/2005 11:23:10 AM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee
I would be inclined to say that a shirt showing an aborted fetus would probably be inappropriate to wear in in school...

I agree.
7 posted on 11/05/2005 11:24:26 AM PST by msnimje ("People for the American Way have issued a Fatwah against Alito" --- John Cornyn)
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To: msnimje

Whenever they spout the buzz word "privacy", retort that what they really want is the "right to secretly abort."

Don't let the "privacy" buzz word stand.



8 posted on 11/05/2005 11:26:43 AM PST by i_dont_chat (Houston, TX)
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To: Abathar

I question the findings of such a study. I am passionatly pro-life; however, I do not believe it is the federal government's role to ever "outlaw" abortion. All that would be done by overturning Roe v. Wade is to return jurisdiction to the individual states and they could either leave it alone or make it illegal. Many of the "blue states" like Californian and New York would certainly keep it legal. The difference is that for the first time in decades, abortion would be out from control of unelected federal judges.


9 posted on 11/05/2005 11:28:32 AM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee

"I do not believe it is the federal government's role to ever "outlaw" abortion."

Are you saying this becaue you believe there should be no federal laws outlawing murder? Or, because of the unique circumstances of abortion...i.e. the victim is inside a woman, that this should prevent the feds from becoming involved?



10 posted on 11/05/2005 11:44:12 AM PST by fizziwig
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To: fizziwig
There is no federal law outlawing murder (except for murder that occurs on federal property).

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
-- Amendment 10

This is a matter of state sovereignty. If we decide that it is the role of the federal government to begin making laws such as these, the entire purpose of having individual sovereign states becomes meaningless.

11 posted on 11/05/2005 11:55:01 AM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee
Senior Brian Ramirez was recently forced to serve an in-school suspension... The student also was penalized with a zero grade for each day's lab missed while in suspension, and informed that for each day he continued to wear clothing bearing a pro-life message he would remain on suspension.

Anyone in the school administration now serving a similar penalty to those imposed on this innocent young man?

Perhaps a suspension without pay is in order.

12 posted on 11/05/2005 12:00:40 PM PST by RJL
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To: wagglebee

Remember in the 80's when Wham! first came out? George Michael wore that "Choose Life" t-shirt in the video. Lots of kids were wearing that on their t-shirts soon after. Where was the outrage THEN!


13 posted on 11/05/2005 12:08:41 PM PST by toothfairy86
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To: wagglebee
the pro-life messages were offensive to certain teachers at the school...............

One of, if not the main, assault on the American way of life as we once knew it is the teaching profession - from the pre-K thru PhD. We have given up the local control of our teachers and public schools and can no longer complain when one of the teachers spreads their liberal beliefs. We also have to take the blame for not appearing to care - how many of us attend the local school board meetings? the parents nights? any school function?
14 posted on 11/05/2005 12:22:35 PM PST by momf (Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all . T Roosevelt)
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To: momf

And the ACLU was where on this case?


15 posted on 11/05/2005 12:40:04 PM PST by kjo
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To: Abathar

>> a sick circle of life...

A believe the term is "dans macabre".


16 posted on 11/05/2005 12:41:46 PM PST by HKMk23 ("In a land of moral imbeciles, I knew I could be king." -- Aaron Tonken, Celebrity Manipulator)
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To: wagglebee
Administrators had told Ramirez that the pro-life messages were offensive to certain teachers at the school.

...We were mistaken.

But because God was not included with the Pro-Life statement, its OK. I sometimes wonder if these lefties are more anti-God than anti-life.

17 posted on 11/05/2005 12:53:24 PM PST by evolved_rage
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To: wagglebee

Do you feel the same way about homosexual marriage or polygamy?


18 posted on 11/05/2005 12:56:38 PM PST by em2vn
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To: em2vn
Do you feel the same way about homosexual marriage or polygamy?

Absolutely not!

A homosexual or polygamous marriage in one state would become an issue if the people moved to a different state. This would clearly become an issue in terms of the "full faith and credit" clause in Article IV of the Constitution.

As much as I would wish for every state to ban abortion, a woman would be allowed to travel to a state which allows abortion. The abortion would occur in one state and the other state's laws would not apply. In simpler terms, some states allow the sale and use of fireworks while others don't, there is no prohibition from someone travelling to a different state and using fireworks there.

19 posted on 11/05/2005 1:07:43 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: kjo

Doesn't matter. Just look at what the 9th out west said. WE don't matter, WE cannot think. WE are incapable of deciding what is best for our children. WE have NO rights over the public school system. Thank The LORD my kids are grown and gone.


20 posted on 11/05/2005 1:31:52 PM PST by Texas WOP
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To: wagglebee
The remedy to the ''full faith and credit'' end-run for homosexual 'marriage' (sic) has already been implemented in at least two states. All that need occur is the passage of an amendment to the state constitution defining marriage correctly, and prohibiting the executive branch of the state government from recognising homosexual 'marriages' in any form or fashion.

If stare decisis is the game the homos want to play, they'll lose; Federal courts have decided on numerous occasions that a provision in one state's constitution absolutely trumps another state's statutory permissions, within the former state's jurisdiction. It can hardly be otherwise, for, were it so, any state legislature could void any other state's constitution in whole or in part by merely passing a statute.

The technical term for such an eventuality, given some sort of ex jure barbaro voiding process like this, is chaos.

21 posted on 11/05/2005 1:36:56 PM PST by SAJ
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To: SAJ

I agree. However, to compare state sovereignty with homosexual marriage with abortion, is a non-issue. Abortion could easily be determined by the individual states.


22 posted on 11/05/2005 1:41:47 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee

So, if Roe V. Wade were to be overturned, it would then go back to the states. This would be better than nothing of course, but I would like to see a Constitutional amendment that would protect innocent human life. If it goes back to the states, then unborn babies in some states would not have a right to life while those in other states would. I think something as sacred as defenseless human life should be equally protected under the Constitution. That's my two cents worth.


23 posted on 11/05/2005 1:48:13 PM PST by fox0566
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To: kjo

And the ACLU was where on this case?


Helping the liberal teachers/administrators.


24 posted on 11/05/2005 1:55:44 PM PST by momf (Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all . T Roosevelt)
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To: fox0566
Obviously, a Constitutional amendment banning abortion would be the ideal situation, but I don't see it happening. To pass an amendment, two third of the Senate and the House would have to favor it AND three quarters of the states would have to ratify it -- I don't see either of these as being likely to happen any time in the near future.

I do think it would be possible to pass an amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman.

25 posted on 11/05/2005 2:00:51 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee

Thanks - just sneaking onto FR for a minute, will ping the list later.

You're on top of things, aren't you!


26 posted on 11/05/2005 2:49:37 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: little jeremiah
You're on top of things, aren't you!

Yeah, well somebody needs to do YOUR job!!! -:)

27 posted on 11/05/2005 3:06:39 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee

And so it should. The language of the 10th Amendment is perfectly plain. Not even the lawyer class can ''misinterpret'' it; all they can do is ignore it...which they've done for -- frankly -- I don't know how long.


28 posted on 11/05/2005 10:43:45 PM PST by SAJ
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To: 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...


29 posted on 11/06/2005 10:49:14 PM PST by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: wagglebee

If Roe and Casey are reversed, as you say, it will return the question of abortion to the states where it was earlier.

The situation when Roe v. Wade was pronounced was that almost every state outlawed abortion but a few, such as New York, were in the process of legalizing it. We will not necessarily return to that situation, since people have had decades to get used to the idea of legalized abortion as "normal," whereas previously they had had centuries to get used to the idea that abortion was a shameful crime.

So, it would be fought out in the states. Probably in most conservative states, most abortions will be outlawed, and in some states all abortions. Possibly the laws will revert to what was in effect prior to Roe, possibly lawyers will argue that the old laws no longer apply and that if people want abortion outlawed the matter must be revisited.

There is at least some possibility that a constitutional right can be found to say that abortion is a crime. The great analogy is slavery. When the constitution was written it gave all men equal rights, but it didn't say "women" and it winked at slavery. Later, it came to be seen that the right to equality should include women and slaves. But just to make sure, amendments were passed to confirm it.

It depends on the definition of "natural person." it is now agreed that women and children and former slaves are natural persons with all constitutional rights. It COULD be decided that unborn children also are persons--as, indeed, science says they are. They are human, they are living, they are unique persons in their own right.

The constitutional right of an unborn child to life would certainly have to be fought out, however, and is unlikely to be asserted anytime soon.


30 posted on 11/07/2005 7:46:52 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: wagglebee

Bttt


31 posted on 11/07/2005 1:25:53 PM PST by davidosborne (www.DavidOsborne.net)
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