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To draft a better DUI law
The Boston Herald ^ | 11/5/05 | Randy S. Chapman

Posted on 11/09/2005 3:39:41 PM PST by elkfersupper

It is time to separate fact from fiction about our drunken driving laws. It is time to stop deluding ourselves into believing that stricter penalties are the solution. It is also time to start promulgating laws that attack the core problem, including creating a bright line that even an intoxicated person can walk.

Drunken driving is a problem in Massachusetts. It is also a problem in New York, Texas and every other state in the country. Statistically, Massachusetts’ roads are not the most dangerous in the country. There is also no proof that Massachusetts drivers are more likely to drive impaired.

-snip-

Perhaps it is time to make it illegal to drink any alcohol and drive a car.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.bostonherald.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: alcohol; dui; dwi; libertarian
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Well, there you have it. A major U.S. newspaper advocating a return to prohibition.

MADD should be proud.

1 posted on 11/09/2005 3:39:41 PM PST by elkfersupper
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To: elkfersupper

Well maybe you would be more accepting if it was worded this way :

Perhaps it is time to make it illegal to drive when you have had any alcohol to drink.


I doubt you will but it was worth a try.....


2 posted on 11/09/2005 3:43:34 PM PST by BlueStateDepression
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To: elkfersupper
This reminds me of a colorful conversation I had with someone from MADD who called me on the telephone seeking donations for MADD. Let's just say I'm no longer on their fund-raising solicitation list. LOL.

"Drunk driving" isn't nearly the problem it is often made out to be, and the issue would nearly disappear if people were simply prosecuted for violating motor vehicle laws on a regular basis regardless of whether they were sober or drunk at the time.

3 posted on 11/09/2005 3:45:14 PM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: elkfersupper

I think they should just ban cars in Massachussetts. High time those bastards should have to use the mass transit everyone else has to pay for. And think of all the green space they could reclaim!

MADD is out of its mind. And cops angling for a reason to bust anyone walking out of a bar love them for it.


4 posted on 11/09/2005 3:45:58 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (Let O'Connor Go Home!)
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To: elkfersupper
I really don't see how they are suggesting prohibition. I beleive they are talking about driving after drinking.
5 posted on 11/09/2005 3:46:02 PM PST by dfwddr (What's the use of happiness? It can't buy you money.)
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To: elkfersupper
Drunken driving is a problem in Massachusetts.

And so are drunk Senators.

6 posted on 11/09/2005 3:46:53 PM PST by WillamShakespeare (What is a John Kerry?)
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To: dfwddr

"I really don't see how they are suggesting prohibition. I beleive they are talking about driving after drinking."

Thank you.


7 posted on 11/09/2005 3:47:45 PM PST by BlueStateDepression
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To: BlueStateDepression
The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it. – John Hay (1872)
8 posted on 11/09/2005 3:48:16 PM PST by elkfersupper
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To: elkfersupper

Think when you Drink...don't drive. BSD (2005)

or


Drink all you want to...just don't drive. BSD (2005)


9 posted on 11/09/2005 3:49:34 PM PST by BlueStateDepression
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To: BlueStateDepression; dfwddr

Which leaves three choices for folks who drink...

1 - Drink at home only
2 - Live within easy walking distance of a bar
3 - Always have a sober driver handy to pick your sorry butt up and schlep you home (or to your next destination)

The idea of responsible drinking, of course, goes right out the window... but that's no different from what we do with respect to other drugs anyway. Since we're already settled on a police state, might as well have an egalitarian police state.


10 posted on 11/09/2005 3:51:21 PM PST by thoughtomator (Bring Back HUAC!)
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To: dfwddr
I really don't see how they are suggesting prohibition. I beleive they are talking about driving after drinking.

How to "Drive" Under the Influence While Sleeping

11 posted on 11/09/2005 3:52:25 PM PST by elkfersupper
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To: elkfersupper
"Perhaps it is time to make it illegal to drink any alcohol and drive a car."

Perhaps it is time to make it illegal to drink any alcohol and write for a newspaper.

12 posted on 11/09/2005 3:53:39 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: BlueStateDepression
Perhaps it is time to make it illegal to drive when you have had any alcohol to drink.

...and perhaps it is time to don your jackboots!

I'm sure you have them all polished.


13 posted on 11/09/2005 3:54:13 PM PST by pageonetoo ( you'll spot them soon enough!)
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To: Alberta's Child
"'Drunk driving' isn't nearly the problem it is often made out to be, and the issue would nearly disappear if people were simply prosecuted for violating motor vehicle laws on a regular basis regardless of whether they were sober or drunk at the time."

Agreed on both points. Every time I see this kind of crap I can't help but miss Sam Kinison.

14 posted on 11/09/2005 3:57:40 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (Let O'Connor Go Home!)
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To: elkfersupper

It took me 6yrs to quit drinking, after I had lost my license...I've now been almost 5yrs.

I still do not agree with the DUI laws...and detest MAD, but if I hadn't lost my license...I'd probably still be drinkin.


15 posted on 11/09/2005 3:57:58 PM PST by Mrite
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To: LibertarianInExile

In downtown Owego, they force the bars to close by not allowing parking between 2 and 5 AM. Effectiveness depends on how swift the police are in getting out to issue tickets.


16 posted on 11/09/2005 3:58:55 PM PST by Styria
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To: Alberta's Child
"Drunk driving" isn't nearly the problem it is often made out to be, and the issue would nearly disappear if people were simply prosecuted for violating motor vehicle laws on a regular basis regardless of whether they were sober or drunk at the time.

There you go, being rational again (doesn't pay).

17 posted on 11/09/2005 3:59:07 PM PST by elkfersupper
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To: pageonetoo

Sure, I like raodside safety checks. They are akin to metal detectors at the airport. OH wait I suppose you oppose them too eh? If not what is the difference?


18 posted on 11/09/2005 3:59:31 PM PST by BlueStateDepression
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To: pageonetoo

Good one. Certain city/county governments base their budgets on ticket quotas. While this is going on the bastards from third world nations are creeping across our borders. And nobody gives a sh!t. I'll drink and drive if I want to. Stop this PC crap.


19 posted on 11/09/2005 4:00:43 PM PST by Utah Binger (American Art in the West)
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To: LibertarianInExile

Knda living dangerously to be bringing up sammy in this forum eh?

After all he did like to tell a joke about Jesus being able to use his hands as a whistle.....


20 posted on 11/09/2005 4:01:02 PM PST by BlueStateDepression
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To: Mrite
It took me 6yrs to quit drinking, after I had lost my license...

I don't drink either, although I didn't have to put up with your punishment.

I just don't like getting caught up in the checkpoints, which are clearly designed to just get us used to the idea.

21 posted on 11/09/2005 4:01:58 PM PST by elkfersupper
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To: Utah Binger

" I'll drink and drive if I want to."

With an attitude like that I hope you get what it is you are asking for and that you do not hurt anyone but yourself.

BUT I suppose you do agree with terrorists when they say "Ill blow people up if I want to"

Sad....very very SAD.


22 posted on 11/09/2005 4:03:22 PM PST by BlueStateDepression
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To: BlueStateDepression

Sounds good to me. The world would be better off if alcoholic beverages didn't exist. The carnage, both on the roads and in domestic violence, that stems directly from drinking alcohol, is way out of proportion to any benefits it provides. Anyone who can't have a good time without drinking alcohol has a serious problem IMO.


23 posted on 11/09/2005 4:03:41 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: BlueStateDepression
Sure, I like raodside safety checks. They are akin to metal detectors at the airport.

Exactly. Which is why I and most other freedom-loving people despise them.

24 posted on 11/09/2005 4:03:45 PM PST by elkfersupper
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To: elkfersupper; BlueStateDepression
I think you either missed, or ignored the context of my post. YOU were suggesting the paper was calling for prohibition. I was trying to point out it was calling for different DUI laws. If you only consume alcohol within a 3 foot radius of a car, then yes, this could be interpreted as prohibition. I see that as quite a stretch.
25 posted on 11/09/2005 4:04:41 PM PST by dfwddr (What's the use of happiness? It can't buy you money.)
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To: BlueStateDepression

Tsk, Tsk. Some idiots really believe MADD. Sounds like you too are one of them.


26 posted on 11/09/2005 4:05:22 PM PST by Utah Binger (American Art in the West)
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To: pageonetoo
Pay Day!

(On a bit of a sidebar, Secretary at City Hall recently informed me that after Perps are arrested and stolen property has been recovered that it is up to me to keep checking with the PD to see if my property is with any of the recovered goods and that after 30 days of recovery, identified or not it belongs to them, for them to auction off) How quaint, sounds like just another arm of the Mafia to me, why the hell did I go through the hassle of waiting for the stupid detective to finish his dunkin dough-nuts and submit a detailed list of items stolen?

(Bunch of Worthless Dickwad seatbelt ticketing tax collectors)
27 posted on 11/09/2005 4:06:41 PM PST by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
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To: dfwddr
If you only consume alcohol within a 3 foot radius of a car, then yes, this could be interpreted as prohibition.

Most of the U.S. I've never even seen public transportation, much less let myself be herded onto it.

28 posted on 11/09/2005 4:06:55 PM PST by elkfersupper
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Well you take it a bit further in your position than I do.
Taking away the booze isn't how to solve the problems it creates....I think the best way to deal with it is to have valid punishments. Removing driving privliges is a great start, personally I advocate mote time without a license(along with jail time for driving ona suspended or revoked) as opposed to steeper dollar amount fines.

As it pertains to domestic violence, I think the best case there is for people on the recieving end of that to bail, instantly.


29 posted on 11/09/2005 4:07:52 PM PST by BlueStateDepression
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To: elkfersupper
I am not sure what problem that is suppossed to be solved by this, but it sure isn't Drunken Driving. It is kind of like going from .1 to .08, no reduction in drunken driving, just more harassment of law abiding citizens.

What frustrates the nanny state is that they cannot stop the habitual drunks who blow real high and ignore all the laws anyway, so they tighten the screws to those who they know will obey the law. It's extremely childish and extremely ineffective as well.
30 posted on 11/09/2005 4:07:58 PM PST by microgood
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To: elkfersupper

OH YES freedom loving people oppose airport security.
BWAA HAHAHAHAHA

OK


31 posted on 11/09/2005 4:08:42 PM PST by BlueStateDepression
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To: dfwddr

I see it as quite a stretch also. I agree with your call on this. My post was directed at elf.....observing a recent thread that we had a similar discussion about this topic.


32 posted on 11/09/2005 4:10:18 PM PST by BlueStateDepression
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To: microgood
What frustrates the nanny state is that they cannot stop the habitual drunks who blow real high and ignore all the laws anyway, so they tighten the screws to those who they know will obey the law. It's extremely childish and extremely ineffective as well.

Hear! Hear! Really pisses me off to hear all the bleeding hearts list all their talking points about this subject. Most of them are probably born again idiots and dumb bastards.

33 posted on 11/09/2005 4:12:02 PM PST by Utah Binger (American Art in the West)
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To: BlueStateDepression
OH YES freedom loving people oppose airport security.

I still fly. I just quit flying commercially in 1992, right after it started getting silly.

And yes, I do oppose the current level of airport security.

34 posted on 11/09/2005 4:14:04 PM PST by elkfersupper
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To: BlueStateDepression
Most accidents in the home happen in your bathroom, new helmet laws needs to be enacted, and all safety checks will be routine and unannounced.

If you wish to opt out of the routine safety checks (all for your protection) you may pay a one time fee and the government will install cameras throughout your home and yard and all infractions will be noted and you will be billed monthly.

It is all in the name of Safety. (If you are a member of a certain select group and feel that this notice was sent to you in error, bring it to work with you and you will be paid for the time it took you to read it and your name will of course be removed from the list of usual suspects)

TT
35 posted on 11/09/2005 4:15:20 PM PST by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
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To: elkfersupper
I notice nobody ever talks about why blood alcohol levels have been used to charge "drunk" drivers.

BAC was put in place because a large portion of the folks stopped for DWIs passed all of the field agility and other tests, and had to be released, even though the officers could smell/tell the subject had been drinking.

Now if we are interested in "safe" driving why would you arrest someone who was driving OK?

Oh yeah, they "might" get in an accident. So in the interest of public safety we must make it easy for the officers in the field to arrest those drivers suspected of DWI.

I'm not really against using BAC as a standard, but, it is a legitimate question, by reasonable people, to ask just exactly what is "drunk"?

This is the one situation I agree with arresting folks if there is any doubt, because this, (DWI), is a matter of life and death.
36 posted on 11/09/2005 4:15:24 PM PST by porkchops 4 mahound ("Si vis pacem, para bellum", If you wish peace, prepare for war.)
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To: microgood
they cannot stop the habitual drunks who blow real high and ignore all the laws anyway

Well, they can. But that takes work, and doesn't generate any revenue.

37 posted on 11/09/2005 4:15:56 PM PST by elkfersupper
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To: elkfersupper
doesn't generate any revenue.

Exactly!

38 posted on 11/09/2005 4:19:58 PM PST by Utah Binger (American Art in the West)
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To: porkchops 4 mahound
This is the one situation I agree with arresting folks if there is any doubt, because this, (DWI), is a matter of life and death.

Driving, flying, boating, skating, skiing, swimming, bathing, etc., etc. is (are) also a matter of life and death.

39 posted on 11/09/2005 4:20:06 PM PST by elkfersupper
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To: BlueStateDepression

"ECLIPSE!"

Sammy is popular with some folks on this board.

Others simply think of the man as better off dead.

I prefer to ignore that latter crowd anyway.


40 posted on 11/09/2005 4:20:53 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (Let O'Connor Go Home!)
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To: elkfersupper

Penalties for first offense DUI are serious enough in some states to ruin the life of the offender. Beyond the $3,000 - $5,000 in legal fees and fines, the more serious penalty will be loss of a driver's license for 3-6 months. This can easily lead to loss of employment and even bankruptcy -- for a first offense, without any damage done to people or property. Some states do not permit any driving at all on a suspended license, even driving to work.

The penalty experienced by someone who loses his driving license depends on something irrelevant to the offense: how far the offender lives from his workplace, markets, etc. Someone who walks to work may expereience only minor inconvenience, while someone who drives many miles to work and can't get a ride has a personal disaster, plus a substantial incentive to drive illegally. Isn't the punishment supposed to be proportional to the crime?

I talked to one man who had been arrested for first offense DUI, lost his license, but found himself in a situation where it was necessary to him to drive. He was caught driving, and a judge gave him six months in jail. He lost everything -- house, job, etc. He talked freely about the appeal of suicide. All for drinking a too much at a party and then driving once when he shouldn't have. I had no way to verify his story, but I talked to an attorney who said that it was very plausible.

DUI at high blood alcohol levels is a serious offense that merits penalties that serve as effective deterrents. But first offense DUI should not destroy the offender's life, and necessary driving should be permitted.


41 posted on 11/09/2005 4:22:22 PM PST by TChad
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To: elkfersupper
Driving, flying, boating, skating, skiing, swimming, bathing, etc., etc. is (are) also a matter of life and death.

Don't leave out making love. Heart attacks do happen. That is, unless we can get them for DFI.

42 posted on 11/09/2005 4:23:11 PM PST by Utah Binger (American Art in the West)
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To: BlueStateDepression; Utah Binger

Are you really saying that people who drink and drive are as bad as TERRORISTS? That's like saying kids who play with guns are as bad as murderers.


43 posted on 11/09/2005 4:26:40 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (Let O'Connor Go Home!)
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To: TChad
He talked freely about the appeal of suicide.

According to some sources, far more people commit suicide while incarcerated for DWI in this country than are killed in crashes caused by drunk drivers.

Yet another reason to fight this tyrrany.

44 posted on 11/09/2005 4:27:26 PM PST by elkfersupper
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To: BlueStateDepression
Welcome to freerepublic...and yes...you are depressing.

FMCDH(BITS)

45 posted on 11/09/2005 4:28:09 PM PST by nothingnew (I fear for my Republic due to marxist influence in our government. Open eyes/see)
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To: elkfersupper

Of course.


46 posted on 11/09/2005 4:29:10 PM PST by porkchops 4 mahound ("Si vis pacem, para bellum", If you wish peace, prepare for war.)
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To: LibertarianInExile
Are you really saying that people who drink and drive are as bad as TERRORISTS?

Sorry you have confused sarcasm with reality. Please get a grip and lets go get a beer.

47 posted on 11/09/2005 4:29:33 PM PST by Utah Binger (American Art in the West)
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To: BlueStateDepression; elkfersupper

So he has a habit of screaming "prohibition" on "DUI" threads then ?

elf... don't lecture me on DUI's. Been there, done that, got thr T-shirt. The night I got mine, I deserved it. Thank God I got it before I killed someone, because there's a good chance I may have, I was that drunk. I grew up in a time and place that if the cops caught you driving drunk, all they did was follow you home to be sure you could find it. Now, many moons later, times have changed. Still now, 10 years after my DUI, I either dring at home, or turn my keys over to a DD BEFORE I even start to drink. Not really that hard.
If I'm going to kill someone, I'm going to do it on purpose.


48 posted on 11/09/2005 4:31:04 PM PST by dfwddr (What's the use of happiness? It can't buy you money.)
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To: GovernmentShrinker; BlueStateDepression
Anyone who can't have a good time without drinking alcohol has a serious problem IMO.

Anyone who can't have a good time while drinking alcohol has a serious problem IMO.

The use of alcoholic beverages is a matter of personal liberty. In case you didn't know it, it's legal...

Of course, from your posts, it is obvious that you disagree with that, so all I can say is start your own country!

Have one on me...


49 posted on 11/09/2005 4:31:27 PM PST by pageonetoo ( you'll spot them soon enough!)
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To: dfwddr
I grew up in a time and place that if the cops caught you driving drunk, all they did was follow you home to be sure you could find it.

Me too, and I miss it. My hat is off to you, BTW. Better safe than sorry.

I didn't intend to lecture you, just used your comments to point out that this is hysteria, and has gotten completely out of hand.

50 posted on 11/09/2005 4:35:48 PM PST by elkfersupper
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