GM Bankruptcy Fears Rising on Wall Street

ap ^ | 11.15.05 | ALEKSANDRS ROZENS, AP Business Writer

[snoringbear]

The caveat in all this is that we will soon find that corporate management, which has historically been against socialized medicine, will soon openly become advocates of it. With high visibility corporations such as Delta, United, Northwestern, American, GM, Ford, and on and on, soon filing for Chapter 11 and then chapter 7, so to get out from under uncompetitively high wage rates and benefits, our friends in congress will soon offer up some legislative relief. However, I as a taxpayer am personally against this happening and plan to use my one vote of influence to see that my congressman and two senators know as much! Let the markets work and have their way, we as a country will be the stronger for it!

[michaelbfree]

ROFL dumbass, unions "remotely" involved - how stupid are you? The only knee jerk response is yours fool - remotely involved, so stupid it's incredibly funny, you actually should get post of the day for your idiocy - it also appears most on this board would disagree with your position - anyone with a brain knows the damage the UAW has caused the auto industry...ROFL

[SamAdams76]

Unless removed, a parasite will usually kill its host. The same rule applies to labor unions and GM.

[TheIndependentMinded]

I had just the opposite experience:

74 Vega - Gigalemon, so horrible it cannot be described
83 Firebird - Underpowered megalemon, had to have carbs replaced and exhaust manifolds welded.
85 C10 Truck - Lemon, never ran right cold, dealership could not fix it. Tranny horrible.
90 Cavalier - Lemons, bad brakes, bad head gasket, etc.
96 Blazer - Ultralemon, bad brakes, bad U joints, bad wiper motor, etc. with just 40,000 miles.

I worked at GM for 12 years, the day I left is the day I started buying Toyotas.

[a4realguy]

U forgot number 4. Retirees Pensions

[Big Horn]

You nailed it with UAW.

[strategofr]

"Finally, there's a real question whether free trade is workable. Maybe we need some tarriffs, painful as it would be to restore them at this point."

Worst possible solution.

You just explained why. If we focus on protecting companies like GM, in short order the whole country will be poor. how could it be otherwise when we prop up inefficient companies? We end up like France.

I give GM credit for one thing---consistancy: they do everything wrong.

[em2vn]

Present some of the damage done by union workers that is even equal to the damage done by the sorry management of General Motors. You can't. You may play the fool and attack without any specifics but you can do nothing more than be a fool.
It's important to remember that G.M. freely entered into its labor agreements with its unions just as it recently did it a modified labor agreement adressing health care costs.
This may surprise you but I don't think you speak for most on Free Republic. Group think is anathema to conservatives. If you must practice it you may wish to head to moveon.org and get in with those who are as unable to think for themselves as you appear to be.
Keep seeking 1984 and you may find it.

[palmer]

This may surprise you but I don't think you speak for most on Free Republic.

No he doesn't but nor do you with your rude post #53. Disagree, but be civil.

[michaelbfree]

This is the last time I'm responding to you on this issue, we'll just have to disagree about the role of unions in the demise of GM - but it has been going on since 1945. You blame GM management, I blame the unions - they have caused GM to build low quality vehicles with their wage and benefit demands. In order to stay competitive price wise, GM has no choice but to cut quality when the UAW has their foot on their neck. GM's only hope is to cut at least 250,000 jobs and eliminate at least half of the models (over 80) that they currently build. Yet, if GM tries to do that, all their plants will close due to strikes by the "brotherhood". Unions are nothing but communist and socialist fronts that have absolutely no place in a capitalistic society. You may wish to read some of the history of your beloved union here, but do not bother responding to me again - as far as I'm concerned you are on ignore.

http://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/ni/vol11/no09/edcom.htm

[michaelbfree]

you need to mind your own business - I didn't start this fight nor was I the first to use "rude" language - stuff it

[palmer]

I realize you weren't the first, that's why I pointed out post #53.

[ContemptofCourt]

GM's preferred stock is yeilding almost 12% nowadays. I don't have the stones to buy any, as I think they will declare bankruptcy...but if you have money to lose, that's a ballsy play.

[Brilliant]

My brother works for GM. Unfortunately, the attitude of the UAW is that it's more important for the union to survive than it is for GM to survive. The union can survive without GM, and if that's the way it's got to be....

[BlueStateDepression]

I agree that union leadership oversteps and demands unreasonable concessions from GM. But I would also offer that the SUITS contribute to the overall problem in much the same way. In my vision for a successful corperation that will last thru the ups and downs economies experience, a delicate balance must be struck in the devision of profits. This being between Labor, management, and stockholder.

Labor sees managmement taking millions upon millions and hundreds of thousands upon hundreds of thousands per "suit" and I can understand why unions would make demands for Labor's wages and benefits to be increased. This is not to say that suits shouldn't make money, but I will offer that some think labor is an underclass and thus not deserving of a fair cut of the profits they directly contribute to.
Dividends paid out on stocks held are good for investment, but again without labor their could be no profits to pay that dividend.

Personally I think all three entities need to see that they all have to work together in balance OR ELSE they all three lose.

Could it be that management needs to take a bit smaller bite of the profits in the over all solution to what GM faces today?

Could sales as they are today ( or lack of them) be partially due to the tactics of GMAC in the 90's? WHat with their 19% interest loans and such? Could it be that their service departments have grown inhospitable to customers? Could it be (as to the entire auto industry) that losing such a large chunk of value the SECOND you title it is part of the problem?

Could it be that a ten year old truck has to be kept artificially inflated in value ( ie a truck with 150 thousand miles still being "worth" 10 grand) to justify a new one being 30 grand or even 40 grand is part of the problem?

Labor management and stockholders need to see that they have to work as a team to gain sales, and thus profits, from the consumer. Working against each other and ignoring the rest will only see GM fall.

[BlueStateDepression]

(("1.labor cares about one think...a fast vested check")) And you don't as a salesman? Cmon now EVERY one that gets a paycheck considers that fact. (("2.labor will eat her mother for that check")) So will suits and so will stockholders. Seems that your points reflect my position of them not working as a team...hardly aimless as you claimed. (("3.19% interest ? oh please...that is easy to sell a buyer/sarcasm....a buyers pay history is his/her credit")) Gmac did it alot in 90's take a good look back and you will see that. Maybe I missed all those interest free loaning campaigns then. Oh maybe I missed all those 'employee pricing" discounts then as well eh? Show me those from the 90's. I bet ya cannot. (("4.a 10 year truck w/150 k miles in NOT worth 10k so says a bank,the NADA and Kelly's blue book ")) WANNA BET? http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.ur?kbb.IL;229658;IL167&62670;suv+r&277;GMC;1996%20Suburban&10;GM;C2 Go here : http://www.kbb.com/ and do a loaded suburban for 1996 in excellent condition with 150 thousand miles and jsut see that its retail value is over 11 thousand dollars. Lower miles noted here but it is ten years old: http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=189420724&dealer_id=72593&car_year=1996&search_type=both&make=CHEV&model=&distance=0&address=62670&advanced=&certified=&bkms=1132158565835&max_price=15000&min_price=9000&first_record=26&end_year=1999&start_year=1996&isp=y&pager.offset=25⟨=&cardist=1689 Here is almost hundred thousand miles on a ten year old truck:http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=189953647&dealer_id=99488&car_year=1996&search_type=both&make=CHEV&distance=0&model=&address=62670&certified=&advanced=&max_price=15000&bkms=1132158565835&min_price=9000&end_year=1996&start_year=1995&isp=y⟨=&cardist=486 Here is another this one has 126 thousand miles: http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=191401104&dealer_id=568678&car_year=1996&search_type=both&make=CHEV&distance=0&model=&address=62670&certified=&advanced=&max_price=15000&bkms=1132158565835&min_price=9000&end_year=1996&start_year=1995&isp=y⟨=&cardist=762 Here is a 1995 tahoe with 164 thousand miles priced at $9895! http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=192161880&dealer_id=43306806&car_year=1995&search_type=both&make=CHEV&model=&distance=0&address=62670&advanced=&certified=&bkms=1132158565835&max_price=15000&min_price=9000&first_record=26&end_year=1996&start_year=1995&isp=y&pager.offset=25⟨=&cardist=1150 Ill stop now. The point I was trying to make is this. Used vehicles with so many miles are NOT worth actually what they are stated to be worth. This , over the course of the last decade and a half has deterred people from buying them again. They are over priced when new and the latest round of 'discounts' offers shows that. GM has tried to keep hold of the status quo of raking in the cash and it has come back to bite them now. Blaming it all on labor is hardly an objective position. Blaming it all on "suits" is hardly objective. Blaming it all on stockholders is hardly objective. A reasonable person would agree that all three contribute to the problems GM now faces. Problems that rest mostly in the laps of managment to lead thru. If they continue to take the position to just blame Labor GM will be no more.