Skip to comments.Germans Say U.S. Used Bad Data to Justify Iraq Invasion...
Posted on 11/19/2005 3:05:26 PM PST by bnelson44
Germans Say U.S. Used Bad Data to Justify Iraq Invasion Sat Nov 19 2005 17:58:49 ET
The German intelligence officials responsible for one of the most important informants on Saddam Hussein's suspected weapons of mass destruction say that the Bush Administration and the CIA repeatedly exaggerated his claims during the run-up to the Iraq war.
The LOS ANGELES TIMES is planning to front the allegation is Sunday editions, newsroom sources tell the DRUDGE REPORT.
Five senior officials from Germany's Federal Intelligence Service, or BND, said in interviews with the LOS ANGELES TIMES that they warned U.S. intelligence authorities that the source, an Iraqi defector codenamed Curveball, never claimed to produce germ weapons and never saw anyone else do so.
According to the Germans, President Bush mischaracterized Curveball's information when he warned before the war that Iraq had at least seven mobile factories brewing biological poisons. Then-Secretary of State Colin L. Powell also misstated Curveball's claims in his pre-war presentation to the United Nations on Feb. 5, 2003, the Germans said.
Curveball's German handlers for the last six years said his information was often vague, mostly second-hand and impossible to confirm.
``This was not substantial evidence,'' said a senior German intelligence official. ``We made clear we could not verify the things he said.''
The German authorities, speaking about the case for the first time, also said that their informant suffered from emotional and mental problems. ``He is not a stable, psychologically stable guy,'' said a BND official who supervised the case. ``He is not a completely normal person,'' agreed a BND analyst.
(Excerpt) Read more at drudgereport.com ...
I'll worry about it when the Germans decide what they're going to do about it. I don't think I'll be losing much sleep over it.
Hasn't the Curveball story been played already? Not this particular one, but hasn't it?
Yep, the thousands of missiles that Hussein fired at our pilots prior to our side going to war against Hussein were mere figments of our imagination.
BS - He had WMD and could not tell us how he disposed of them so the logical assumption is he still had them. The delay in congress is what messed things up.
Probably, anyone have a link?
Let's see...the invasion was when??? And now they come forward with this hot new information??? I think the UN needs to investigate these Germans and find out why they didn't speak up much earlier if they had this information. [This is a job that the UN can bungle without any ill effects.]
Nuts N' Sluts defense? Why did the use him for 6 years?
``We made clear we could not verify the things he said.''
Sounds like they're talking about Saddam himself.
Oh, No! Does that mean the Germans will be withdrawing their troops from Iraq immediately? We're dooooomed! /sarcasm
I remember Cheney being asked "why Iraq?""What were they doing to us?".
His response was that one of the reasons was, that Iraq was the only country in the world that was shooting at us on a daily basis.
Iraq may have nuclear weapons in three years, says Germany
coming from the leader of warmongering western countries? meh.
What data did Hitler use to invade most of Europe and surrounding countries?
Who in the CIA egged this one on?
There were multitudes of reasons to depose Saddam but he MSM and Dims only want to focus on WMD. Typical. But this goes beyond that. CIA, at war with the Bush administration, is now calling on foreign agencies to try to make him look bad. That place can't get cleaned out fast enough to suit me.
People...people. Let's review for the millionth time. Saddam signed a peace treaty to avoid being toppled by the US. Part of the treaty included inspections. Saddam wouldn't let the UN inspect. Following 9/11, the US had enough B.S. from the a##hole that was running Iraq. The US assumed the worse case scenario (an assumption based on both credible data as well as Saddam's behavior and statements through the years--not to mention he was a druthless dictator) and decided to attack. It's not President Bush's fault that Saddam is a screwball. Saddam bluffed one too many times and that's the way it went.
What is written above is absolute fact. Why do we need to keep rehashing everything? Are we totally stupid as a country...as a people? Just yesterday the Congress voted unanamously to keep the troops in Iraq. It's over...move on. 70% of the people in Iraq voted in the last two elections. Let's get behind them. Let's help them.
Sometimes I wish Hillary would be president just so people would quit their f#$king whining and start concentrating on the bigger picture....democracy in the Middle East. I, for one, am mature enough to look past a leader I might not like in support of a grand policy.
hell, the german leaders have been feeling 'left' out of the media loop lately
I'll bet the sources for the LAT story are bitter and angry members of Gerhard Schroeder's outgoing government who are taking this opportunity to stick it to Bush. The Germans are claiming the evidence was merely circumstantial, not "substantial" or concrete.
What data did the Germans use to justify talking Oil for Food kickbacks from Saddam?
What if the ClintonCIA--read: the likes of Valerie Flame--did feel compelled to exaggerate? And of course, in the transition to the Bush Administration, they conveniently forgot to re-do the books, so as not to expose themselves. Besides, who likes extra work? Certainly not a Clinton hold-over!
Now that all this focus has gone toward bad intell, could it be the CIA has purposely had Wilson go over the top, and thrown the monkey on the back of the administration, both serving their "former master" while also covering up their half-truths to allow Kurintong his justification for Monica missiles?
Tenet was probably re-using that "slam-dunk" line he got from Bubba hisseff.
It really doesn't matter if they are right. As others have pointed out we had plenty of reasons to get rid of Saddam and it was the policy of the US since Clinton's time. The only reason this is any kind of issue is that we let the terrorists get a foothold in certain places in Iraq. But that is a different problem, with a different solution, isn't it?
Here, let me try...
Germans Say Iraqi Oil contracts Justify No Invasion.
There, that's better.
Like Churchill said, WWII was the most avoidable war we've fought.
I remember reading something about curveball some time after 911. I think this information has been out for a while.
Sounds like sour grapes to me - because we pulled the rug out from under the OFF scam that they were enjoying.
We did not use bad data. Saddam signed a Cease-Fire agreement. He did not abide by the agreement. We had 17 UN resolutions (for whatever that was worth!).
We did not require any additional intelligence, other than he was in violation of the Cease-Fire and had used Chemical Weapons on his neighbors.
The fact that the French, Russians and Germans were all supplying Saddam, the Oil program was lining their pockets and the UN officials all give weight to the fact that US action was necessary because the World Body failed.
You would think the Nancy Pelosi's would be rushing to Iraq to chant "Workers of the World, Unite!" But we know their true convictions....
This from the country that brought us that stable and normal guy named Hitler.
Well, I suppose that settles that. Whoever heard of a Herm lying or betraying an ally?
It seems to me the Germans exaggerated their data to justify the invasion Poland in 1939...and France in 1940...and Russia in 1941.
Gee, what data did they use to invade Poland in 1939?
>>Are we totally stupid as a country...as a people?<<
Short answer: yes, obviously.
Exactly, in the leadup to 9/11, there were only two entities in the world that were routinely attacking us -- Al Qaeda and Baathist Iraq. Then 9/11 came along and every national leader (including even Arafat) figured out it was bad idea to get sideways of the United States. Everyone that is except for Hussein, who continued to attack us on almost a daily basis. Which is another way of saying that Hussein was just begging to be whacked after 9/11.
The delay and Jay Rockefeller telling Assad our plan to invade Iraq...Assad called Saddaam and said he should ship the goodies to him to hide.
Syria has the goods, and a lot of Saddaam money that he's "holding".
Oh, and the source of this story - the Germans who were in bed with Saddaam and his Oil for Food program - are really trustworthy(sarcasm).
Good catch. These guys are disgusting.
The question the LA Times and others should be asking is, "where did they go?" not, "were there ever any . . ."
No Sh*t! I forgot about that. They were constantly firing at us in the no-fly zone. That alone is and was grounds for war.
Ever since Ratzel proposed that the All German Federation WOULD be in charge, not much has changed. A settlement area does not have to be restricted to a specific geography, and influence is of the utmost importance for the "next conflict". I call foreign intervention BS.
Posted on 02/04/2003 12:40:53 PM EST by Enemy Of The State
Germany's leading role in arming Iraq By Marc Erikson
Expurgated portions of Iraq's December 7 report to the UN Security Council show that German firms made up the bulk of suppliers for Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. What's galling is that German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and his minions have long known the facts, German intelligence services know them and have loads of information on what Saddam Hussein is hiding, and Schroeder nonetheless plays holier than thou to an easily manipulated, pacifist-inclined domestic audience.
If it's not the height of hypocrisy and opportunism, Schroeder's preemptive "no war. period" stance on Iraq and insistence on a "German Way" (Deutscher Weg) certainly come close. German Way? Haven't we heard that sort of talk before sometime, somewhere? But leave that be. It falls in the same category as Schroeder's former justice minister's comparison of US President George W Bush to Adolf Hitler in last summer's election campaign. Not only Schroeder and that unfortunate lady, but politicians elsewhere are of limited mental accountability when desperate about winning an election, and suffer lapses of speech and memory.
Germany intercepts (30 tonnes) chemicals (may be used to make nerve gas) for N Korea
Daily Times (Pakistan) ^ | May 19, 2003 | AFP/Reuters
Posted on 05/18/2003 11:29:57 PM EDT by FairOpinion
BERLIN: The German government has intercepted a cargo of 30 tonnes of sodium cyanide, which can be used in the manufacture of chemical weapons, at the request of Washington which believes the shipment was bound for North Korea, according to the German weekly Der Spiegel.
The substance, commonly used in the treatment of metals, can also be in the manufacture of the deadly nerve gas Tabun.
The cargo was officially being shipped by a German company to a warehouse in Singapore.
They were full of info back then.
And the Germans used bad cowardice to justify avoiding the invasion.
What makes them think we used just one source of information?
"Hasn't the Curveball story been played already? Not this particular one, but hasn't it?"
In the Senate Intel report, and the Germans didn't come out good.
This is revisionism. These Germans popping out at this particular moment can't just be the luck of a newspaper, but part of an orchestrated disinformation campaign.