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Germans Say U.S. Used Bad Data to Justify Iraq Invasion...
Drudge ^ | 11/19/05 | Drudge

Posted on 11/19/2005 3:05:26 PM PST by bnelson44

Germans Say U.S. Used Bad Data to Justify Iraq Invasion Sat Nov 19 2005 17:58:49 ET

The German intelligence officials responsible for one of the most important informants on Saddam Hussein's suspected weapons of mass destruction say that the Bush Administration and the CIA repeatedly exaggerated his claims during the run-up to the Iraq war.

The LOS ANGELES TIMES is planning to front the allegation is Sunday editions, newsroom sources tell the DRUDGE REPORT.

Five senior officials from Germany's Federal Intelligence Service, or BND, said in interviews with the LOS ANGELES TIMES that they warned U.S. intelligence authorities that the source, an Iraqi defector codenamed Curveball, never claimed to produce germ weapons and never saw anyone else do so.

According to the Germans, President Bush mischaracterized Curveball's information when he warned before the war that Iraq had at least seven mobile factories brewing biological poisons. Then-Secretary of State Colin L. Powell also misstated Curveball's claims in his pre-war presentation to the United Nations on Feb. 5, 2003, the Germans said.

Curveball's German handlers for the last six years said his information was often vague, mostly second-hand and impossible to confirm.

``This was not substantial evidence,'' said a senior German intelligence official. ``We made clear we could not verify the things he said.''

The German authorities, speaking about the case for the first time, also said that their informant suffered from emotional and mental problems. ``He is not a stable, psychologically stable guy,'' said a BND official who supervised the case. ``He is not a completely normal person,'' agreed a BND analyst.

Developing...

(Excerpt) Read more at drudgereport.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: curveball; iraq
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1 posted on 11/19/2005 3:05:27 PM PST by bnelson44
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To: bnelson44

I'll worry about it when the Germans decide what they're going to do about it. I don't think I'll be losing much sleep over it.


2 posted on 11/19/2005 3:07:48 PM PST by cripplecreek (Never a minigun handy when you need one.)
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To: bnelson44

Hasn't the Curveball story been played already? Not this particular one, but hasn't it?


3 posted on 11/19/2005 3:09:39 PM PST by digger48
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To: bnelson44

Yep, the thousands of missiles that Hussein fired at our pilots prior to our side going to war against Hussein were mere figments of our imagination.


4 posted on 11/19/2005 3:09:39 PM PST by vbmoneyspender
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To: bnelson44

BS - He had WMD and could not tell us how he disposed of them so the logical assumption is he still had them. The delay in congress is what messed things up.


5 posted on 11/19/2005 3:09:56 PM PST by PeterPrinciple (Seeking the truth here folks.)
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To: digger48

Probably, anyone have a link?


6 posted on 11/19/2005 3:10:12 PM PST by bnelson44 (Proud parent of a tanker!)
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To: bnelson44

Let's see...the invasion was when??? And now they come forward with this hot new information??? I think the UN needs to investigate these Germans and find out why they didn't speak up much earlier if they had this information. [This is a job that the UN can bungle without any ill effects.]


7 posted on 11/19/2005 3:10:33 PM PST by Clara Lou
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To: bnelson44
Hey Herm.....always error on the side of caution. There are a lot more Germans speaking English than Brits or Americans speaking German....and that's after thousands upon thousands of occupiers have been in Deautschland over the years.
8 posted on 11/19/2005 3:11:43 PM PST by RVN Airplane Driver (Freedom isn't Free....never has been...never will be)
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To: bnelson44
The German authorities, speaking about the case for the first time, also said that their informant suffered from emotional and mental problems. ``He is not a stable, psychologically stable guy,'' said a BND official who supervised the case. ``He is not a completely normal person,'' agreed a BND analyst.

Nuts N' Sluts defense? Why did the use him for 6 years?

9 posted on 11/19/2005 3:11:45 PM PST by operation clinton cleanup
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To: bnelson44
``He is not a stable, psychologically stable guy,'' ... ``He is not a completely normal person,''

``We made clear we could not verify the things he said.''

Sounds like they're talking about Saddam himself.

10 posted on 11/19/2005 3:12:07 PM PST by thoughtomator (Democrats think 1984 is an instruction manual)
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To: bnelson44

Oh, No! Does that mean the Germans will be withdrawing their troops from Iraq immediately? We're dooooomed! /sarcasm


11 posted on 11/19/2005 3:12:13 PM PST by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: vbmoneyspender

I remember Cheney being asked "why Iraq?""What were they doing to us?".

His response was that one of the reasons was, that Iraq was the only country in the world that was shooting at us on a daily basis.


12 posted on 11/19/2005 3:13:06 PM PST by digger48
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To: bnelson44

Iraq may have nuclear weapons in three years, says Germany

http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/print.asp?ArticleID=10537


13 posted on 11/19/2005 3:13:36 PM PST by jimbo123
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To: bnelson44

coming from the leader of warmongering western countries? meh.


14 posted on 11/19/2005 3:13:51 PM PST by RedBeaconNY (Vous parlez trop, mais vous ne dites rien.)
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To: bnelson44

What data did Hitler use to invade most of Europe and surrounding countries?


15 posted on 11/19/2005 3:14:34 PM PST by DTogo (I haven't left the GOP, the GOP left me.)
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To: bnelson44
The LA Times is trying to make a splash with very old news.

Wouldn't it have been nice to be able to critique FDR's decisions on the front page of widely read newspapers 3 years after the fact. Why were the Philippines left so poorly defended? And wasn't it obvious that after you cut Japan's oil off they would attack us? And was it really necessary to invade Okinawa, North Africa, Sicily, and Italy? Etc, etc.

The DIMs are shameless.
16 posted on 11/19/2005 3:16:45 PM PST by ml1954 (NOT the disruptive troll seen frequently on CREVO threads)
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To: bnelson44
Nice timing on this one Krauts. LOL!

Who in the CIA egged this one on?

17 posted on 11/19/2005 3:16:59 PM PST by zarf (The BCS sucks.)
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To: bnelson44

There were multitudes of reasons to depose Saddam but he MSM and Dims only want to focus on WMD. Typical. But this goes beyond that. CIA, at war with the Bush administration, is now calling on foreign agencies to try to make him look bad. That place can't get cleaned out fast enough to suit me.


18 posted on 11/19/2005 3:17:07 PM PST by vigilence
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To: zarf
More sour grapes from the krauts for putting their chemical weapons dealers out of business:


19 posted on 11/19/2005 3:20:15 PM PST by jimbo123
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To: Clara Lou
Hello,

Exactly, why is this coming out now? Could it be that this was planned prior to the Congressional Smack-Down of last night? Could it be that it was planned to follow the demand by a certain congressman (a Nam Vet), demanding an immediate pullout from Iraq? Could this have been the next "nail" for the Left's hysterical screaming that President Bush misled the country and world into an illegal war?


Glad to be here, MOgirl
20 posted on 11/19/2005 3:20:48 PM PST by MOgirl (In memory of Walton Wayne Callahan, I love you forever.)
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To: cripplecreek

People...people. Let's review for the millionth time. Saddam signed a peace treaty to avoid being toppled by the US. Part of the treaty included inspections. Saddam wouldn't let the UN inspect. Following 9/11, the US had enough B.S. from the a##hole that was running Iraq. The US assumed the worse case scenario (an assumption based on both credible data as well as Saddam's behavior and statements through the years--not to mention he was a druthless dictator) and decided to attack. It's not President Bush's fault that Saddam is a screwball. Saddam bluffed one too many times and that's the way it went.

What is written above is absolute fact. Why do we need to keep rehashing everything? Are we totally stupid as a country...as a people? Just yesterday the Congress voted unanamously to keep the troops in Iraq. It's over...move on. 70% of the people in Iraq voted in the last two elections. Let's get behind them. Let's help them.

Sometimes I wish Hillary would be president just so people would quit their f#$king whining and start concentrating on the bigger picture....democracy in the Middle East. I, for one, am mature enough to look past a leader I might not like in support of a grand policy.


21 posted on 11/19/2005 3:20:58 PM PST by Firefox1
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To: bnelson44

hell, the german leaders have been feeling 'left' out of the media loop lately


22 posted on 11/19/2005 3:22:25 PM PST by sure_fine (*not one to over kill the thought process*)
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To: Clara Lou

I'll bet the sources for the LAT story are bitter and angry members of Gerhard Schroeder's outgoing government who are taking this opportunity to stick it to Bush. The Germans are claiming the evidence was merely circumstantial, not "substantial" or concrete.


23 posted on 11/19/2005 3:25:28 PM PST by moose2004 (You Can Run But You Can't Hide!)
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To: bnelson44

What data did the Germans use to justify talking Oil for Food kickbacks from Saddam?


24 posted on 11/19/2005 3:25:28 PM PST by Chi-townChief
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To: bnelson44
Thinking as a contrarian, "What if they're on to something, and right?"

What if the ClintonCIA--read: the likes of Valerie Flame--did feel compelled to exaggerate? And of course, in the transition to the Bush Administration, they conveniently forgot to re-do the books, so as not to expose themselves. Besides, who likes extra work? Certainly not a Clinton hold-over!

Now that all this focus has gone toward bad intell, could it be the CIA has purposely had Wilson go over the top, and thrown the monkey on the back of the administration, both serving their "former master" while also covering up their half-truths to allow Kurintong his justification for Monica missiles?

Tenet was probably re-using that "slam-dunk" line he got from Bubba hisseff.

HF

25 posted on 11/19/2005 3:28:21 PM PST by holden (holden on'a'na truth, de whole truth, 'n nuttin' but de truth)
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To: holden

It really doesn't matter if they are right. As others have pointed out we had plenty of reasons to get rid of Saddam and it was the policy of the US since Clinton's time. The only reason this is any kind of issue is that we let the terrorists get a foothold in certain places in Iraq. But that is a different problem, with a different solution, isn't it?


26 posted on 11/19/2005 3:30:24 PM PST by bnelson44 (Proud parent of a tanker!)
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To: bnelson44
Germans Say U.S. Used Bad Data to Justify Iraq Invasion

Here, let me try...

Germans Say Iraqi Oil contracts Justify No Invasion.

There, that's better.

5.56mm

27 posted on 11/19/2005 3:33:44 PM PST by M Kehoe
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To: DTogo
What data did Hitler use to invade most of Europe and surrounding countries?

The appease-o-meter.

Like Churchill said, WWII was the most avoidable war we've fought.

28 posted on 11/19/2005 3:37:50 PM PST by evad ( Politicians are devious scum, right after newspaper editors)
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To: bnelson44
I agree with you, but I was seeing possible kernels of truth that could help understand some motivations in the current CIA Flame-gate nuttiness. Some Clinton-appointed CIA types probably salivated buckets imagining ways to get President Bush impeached for using Monica-missile-cooked WMD books from what was actually Clinton's CIA. Such ops are those folks speciality, after all.

HF

29 posted on 11/19/2005 3:42:32 PM PST by holden (holden on'a'na truth, de whole truth, 'n nuttin' but de truth)
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To: bnelson44

I remember reading something about curveball some time after 911. I think this information has been out for a while.


30 posted on 11/19/2005 3:44:14 PM PST by coffee260 (coffee(I BELIEVE CONGRESSMAN WELDON!))
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To: bnelson44

Sounds like sour grapes to me - because we pulled the rug out from under the OFF scam that they were enjoying.


31 posted on 11/19/2005 3:49:33 PM PST by PatriotGirl827 (There are no short cuts to any place worth going.)
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To: bnelson44

We did not use bad data. Saddam signed a Cease-Fire agreement. He did not abide by the agreement. We had 17 UN resolutions (for whatever that was worth!).

We did not require any additional intelligence, other than he was in violation of the Cease-Fire and had used Chemical Weapons on his neighbors.

The fact that the French, Russians and Germans were all supplying Saddam, the Oil program was lining their pockets and the UN officials all give weight to the fact that US action was necessary because the World Body failed.

You would think the Nancy Pelosi's would be rushing to Iraq to chant "Workers of the World, Unite!" But we know their true convictions....


32 posted on 11/19/2005 3:50:04 PM PST by Prost1 (If you fight, fight hard, fight dirty, fight to win!)
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To: thoughtomator
"``He is not a stable, psychologically stable guy,'' ... ``He is not a completely normal person,''"

This from the country that brought us that stable and normal guy named Hitler.

33 posted on 11/19/2005 3:51:04 PM PST by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway~~John Wayne)
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To: bnelson44

Well, I suppose that settles that. Whoever heard of a Herm lying or betraying an ally?


34 posted on 11/19/2005 3:58:25 PM PST by thelastvirgil (More convinced than ever that the United States Congress is a bigger threat than radical Islamists.)
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To: DTogo

It seems to me the Germans exaggerated their data to justify the invasion Poland in 1939...and France in 1940...and Russia in 1941.


35 posted on 11/19/2005 4:00:04 PM PST by 04-Bravo
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To: bnelson44

Gee, what data did they use to invade Poland in 1939?


36 posted on 11/19/2005 4:01:01 PM PST by Fintan (One of these days I'll tell you what I really think.)
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To: 04-Bravo

Damn...foiled again.


37 posted on 11/19/2005 4:01:43 PM PST by Fintan (One of these days I'll tell you what I really think.)
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To: Firefox1

>>Are we totally stupid as a country...as a people?<<

Short answer: yes, obviously.


38 posted on 11/19/2005 4:04:17 PM PST by thelastvirgil (More convinced than ever that the United States Congress is a bigger threat than radical Islamists.)
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To: digger48

Exactly, in the leadup to 9/11, there were only two entities in the world that were routinely attacking us -- Al Qaeda and Baathist Iraq. Then 9/11 came along and every national leader (including even Arafat) figured out it was bad idea to get sideways of the United States. Everyone that is except for Hussein, who continued to attack us on almost a daily basis. Which is another way of saying that Hussein was just begging to be whacked after 9/11.


39 posted on 11/19/2005 4:11:29 PM PST by vbmoneyspender
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To: PeterPrinciple
BS - He had WMD and could not tell us how he disposed of them so the logical assumption is he still had them. The delay in congress is what messed things up.

The delay and Jay Rockefeller telling Assad our plan to invade Iraq...Assad called Saddaam and said he should ship the goodies to him to hide.

Syria has the goods, and a lot of Saddaam money that he's "holding".

Oh, and the source of this story - the Germans who were in bed with Saddaam and his Oil for Food program - are really trustworthy(sarcasm).

40 posted on 11/19/2005 4:21:20 PM PST by Former Dodger ( "Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." --Einstein)
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To: jimbo123

Good catch. These guys are disgusting.


41 posted on 11/19/2005 4:21:25 PM PST by LS
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To: holden
That would be a good story if the Germans THEMSELVES did not say the same things in 2001; and the French; and the Russians; and the Israelis; and the IRANIANS; and the . . . and the . . . everybody knew the data was real. Saddam had WMDs.

The question the LA Times and others should be asking is, "where did they go?" not, "were there ever any . . ."

42 posted on 11/19/2005 4:23:54 PM PST by LS
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To: digger48

No Sh*t! I forgot about that. They were constantly firing at us in the no-fly zone. That alone is and was grounds for war.


43 posted on 11/19/2005 4:26:58 PM PST by CommieCutter
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To: bnelson44
Der Begriff Lebensraum wurde zuerst von Friedrich Ratzel in seinen Werken "Politische Geographie" (1897) und "Der Lebensraum" (1901) geprägt. In den Ideen des Alldeutschen Verbands bleibt der Begriff weiter in Gebrauch und nach dem Ersten Weltkrieg wird er als Terminus mit wissenschaftlichem Anspruch durch Mitglieder der Schule des Georgraphen Karl Haushofer weitergeführt. Friedrich von Bernhardi weitet in seinem Buch Deutschland und der nächste Krieg (Stuttgart, 1912) die Hypothese aus und identifizierte erstmals Osteuropa als das potentielle Siedlungsgebiet.

Ever since Ratzel proposed that the All German Federation WOULD be in charge, not much has changed. A settlement area does not have to be restricted to a specific geography, and influence is of the utmost importance for the "next conflict". I call foreign intervention BS.

44 posted on 11/19/2005 4:33:25 PM PST by ARealMothersSonForever (Proud to be named as a member of the Radical Right Wing. Vast Right Wing got old.)
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To: bnelson44
Germany's leading role in arming Iraq
Atimes | 2.4.03 | Marc Ericson

Posted on 02/04/2003 12:40:53 PM EST by Enemy Of The State

Germany's leading role in arming Iraq By Marc Erikson

Expurgated portions of Iraq's December 7 report to the UN Security Council show that German firms made up the bulk of suppliers for Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. What's galling is that German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and his minions have long known the facts, German intelligence services know them and have loads of information on what Saddam Hussein is hiding, and Schroeder nonetheless plays holier than thou to an easily manipulated, pacifist-inclined domestic audience.

If it's not the height of hypocrisy and opportunism, Schroeder's preemptive "no war. period" stance on Iraq and insistence on a "German Way" (Deutscher Weg) certainly come close. German Way? Haven't we heard that sort of talk before sometime, somewhere? But leave that be. It falls in the same category as Schroeder's former justice minister's comparison of US President George W Bush to Adolf Hitler in last summer's election campaign. Not only Schroeder and that unfortunate lady, but politicians elsewhere are of limited mental accountability when desperate about winning an election, and suffer lapses of speech and memory.

excerpt

Germany intercepts (30 tonnes) chemicals (may be used to make nerve gas) for N Korea
Daily Times (Pakistan) ^ | May 19, 2003 | AFP/Reuters

Posted on 05/18/2003 11:29:57 PM EDT by FairOpinion

BERLIN: The German government has intercepted a cargo of 30 tonnes of sodium cyanide, which can be used in the manufacture of chemical weapons, at the request of Washington which believes the shipment was bound for North Korea, according to the German weekly Der Spiegel.

The substance, commonly used in the treatment of metals, can also be in the manufacture of the deadly nerve gas Tabun.

The cargo was officially being shipped by a German company to a warehouse in Singapore.

excerpt

45 posted on 11/19/2005 5:19:10 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: jimbo123

They were full of info back then.

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/011380.php


46 posted on 11/19/2005 5:24:14 PM PST by Just A Nobody (I - LOVE - my attitude problem! WBB lives on. Beware the Enemedia trolls.)
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To: bnelson44
Germans Say U.S. Used Bad Data to Justify Iraq Invasion

And the Germans used bad cowardice to justify avoiding the invasion.

47 posted on 11/19/2005 5:27:03 PM PST by America's Resolve (I've become a 'single issue voter' for 06 and 08. My issue is illegal immigration!)
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To: piasa

Ping.


48 posted on 11/19/2005 5:33:36 PM PST by Fedora
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To: bnelson44

What makes them think we used just one source of information?


49 posted on 11/19/2005 5:40:58 PM PST by Lancer_N3502A
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To: digger48

"Hasn't the Curveball story been played already? Not this particular one, but hasn't it?"

In the Senate Intel report, and the Germans didn't come out good.

This is revisionism. These Germans popping out at this particular moment can't just be the luck of a newspaper, but part of an orchestrated disinformation campaign.


50 posted on 11/19/2005 5:44:29 PM PST by Shermy
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