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Season Finale: Rome, Episode 12, Kalends of February 9PM EST---Legio XIII Forever!
HBO ^ | 20 NOV 2005 | dcbryan1

Posted on 11/20/2005 3:52:19 PM PST by DCBryan1

As a result of their arena exploits, Pullo and Vorenus have become heroes to the Roman rank and file, causing Caesar to reward those he normally would punish. Pullo's unexpected return to Vorenus' household is not appreciated by his former slave Eirene. Caesar decides to overhaul the Senate by adding some unexpected new faces, to the chagrin of the old guard. And Servilia hurdles the final obstacle in her ambitious revenge scenario, at Niobe's expense.


TOPICS: Announcements
KEYWORDS: 13th; 13thfloorelevators; 13thforever; 13thlegion; archaeology; atia; augustus; brutus; brutusofmanyteeth; caesar; centurion; daciancatamite; godsgravesglyphs; hbo; hd; history; julia; julias; julii; legio; legion; legioxiii; lucius; luciusvorenus; magistrate; octavia; octavius; pompey; prefect; pullo; romanempire; romans; rome; thegift; titus; tituspullo; vorenus; xiii
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To: eddie willers
Et tu Brutus?

I saw it in his eyes...waiting for him to say it.

I was yelling at the TV like Sam Kinison..."Say it!...Saaaay it!"

151 posted on 11/20/2005 8:22:23 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸Ooooh...I think I over-medicated¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸)
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To: teenyelliott
He would have forgiven her, and understood the circumstances, I think, because he loved her so much.

I know he would have. My wife thought he was going to kill the boy...but I knew that he was only sitting there letting the steam vent off. If Naobi had only waited another minute or two the rage would have subsided.

But I guess that wasn't in the script. I wonder if he'll be allowed to keep his Senate seat now that his patriarch is dead.

152 posted on 11/20/2005 8:25:34 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸Ooooh...I think I over-medicated¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸)
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To: rintense
Servilla is screwed, assuming they take a brief detour from history.

I looked at the rage on Octavian's face and thought for sure he was going to kill the wench right there. But that would have been quite a turn from history.

153 posted on 11/20/2005 8:29:38 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸Ooooh...I think I over-medicated¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸)
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To: Rosemont

there's a lot of talk about sex, but the battles, amputations and other deaths are not too pleasant for many viewers.


154 posted on 11/20/2005 8:29:42 PM PST by bigsigh
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To: claudiustg
Only because Rome has a bigger budget than I, Claudius. As stories and characters go, I would say they're equally as entertaining. Both of them also appeal to the viewer's most delightfully vile nature, while at the same time, allowing you to say, "But this is history--it's good for me."
155 posted on 11/20/2005 8:34:17 PM PST by Uncle Vlad
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To: rintense

And Pullo will save him in battle.


156 posted on 11/20/2005 8:34:18 PM PST by bigsigh
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To: Melas

I would have know she died of old age, but I stopped just short of my PhD.


157 posted on 11/20/2005 8:41:07 PM PST by bigsigh
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To: bigsigh

and spelling too


158 posted on 11/20/2005 8:41:24 PM PST by bigsigh
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To: Pukin Dog
"She should have told him the truth. Because she lied, she is a whore."

About the time she got that bun in the oven she thought she was a widow. A widow who'd received none of hubby's pay in years. Bro-in-law (Babydaddy) was the only thing keeping her and the kids out of the street. She told her daughter to lie because she feared he may just kill them all. He prolly would have.

Glad Pullo got his little slave girl back.
159 posted on 11/20/2005 8:51:20 PM PST by myheroesareDeadandRegistered (Ann Coulter/ Mark Levin tag team in '08)
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To: Pukin Dog

Not just that, She used her own 13 year old daughter to hide what she did.


160 posted on 11/20/2005 8:58:18 PM PST by qam1 (There's been a huge party. All plates and the bottles are empty, all that's left is the bill to pay)
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To: DCBryan1

Thank the gods it's over.


161 posted on 11/20/2005 9:25:00 PM PST by ValenB4 ("Every system is perfectly designed to get the results it gets." - Isaac Asimov)
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To: DCBryan1

I just finished watching it, I taped it. A strong season finale, tragic. The show smartly realizes that the story is Vorenus and Pullo, given that they are fictional characters, and built the climax around those two. The audience knows what happens to Julius--but not what would happen to Niobe.

The only weakness through the whole series has been the undercutting of Cicero. The writers have interpreted the actions of Brutus and the conspirators in almost a Freudian manner, given no credence whatsoever w/ political disagreement. I really think the show could have been even stronger if Cicero and Cato's arguments were given more air time. Cato's portrayal was pathetic, and we get none of what made Cicero the intellectual that he was. There's still time to work on Cicero, but just seems like the creators aren't interested in him at all.


162 posted on 11/21/2005 12:09:47 AM PST by 0siris
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To: 0siris

I bet Vorenus sticks with Antony and Pullo sides with Octavian. That a nice set up for another 12 episodes.


163 posted on 11/21/2005 5:07:23 AM PST by Callahan
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

"I was yelling at the TV like Sam Kinison..."Say it!...Saaaay it!""

I was screaming at the top of my lungs!! I was dissapointed, to say the least!


164 posted on 11/21/2005 5:12:07 AM PST by bonfire (dwindler)
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To: rintense

if they hold to history, octavian cleans out the entire nest of vipers and goes on to greatness.

i hope they let antony run wild for a while, he was one of my favorite characters.

bummer about 2007- thats a long way off, but we may need something to look forward to besides the 2006 elections.

and we may really need something good after nov 2006


165 posted on 11/21/2005 5:47:34 AM PST by beebuster2000
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To: bonfire

Did you notice that Caesar didn't say "Alia iacta est" when crossing the Rubicon?


166 posted on 11/21/2005 5:49:09 AM PST by SmithL (There are a lot of people that hate Bush more than they hate terrorists)
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To: teenyelliott

vorenus marries his wifes sister- adopts the child.


167 posted on 11/21/2005 5:49:36 AM PST by beebuster2000
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To: DCBryan1

What I took from this episode, thematically, apart from the history, was the notion of how quickly fortunes can change, and roles can reverse. The person who has everything can lose it, and those with nothing can land on the top, either by sheer will, chance or the whims of the Gods. Bruno Heller (the writer) did a masterful job of weaving history, human nature, and the capricious nature of luck, into the episode.


168 posted on 11/21/2005 5:49:57 AM PST by veronica (....."send Congressman Murtha a message: that cowards cut and run, Marines never do.")
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To: bonfire
I was dissapointed, to say the least!

I was too until my wife reminded me that the line was from Shakespeare and probably wasn't actually uttered by Julius Caesar.

169 posted on 11/21/2005 5:53:58 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸Ooooh...I think I over-medicated¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸)
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To: jmc1969

"Octavious is a panzie, if he wins it will only be because Cleopatra has cut off Antony's nads."

Octavius will later become Augustus Caesar.


170 posted on 11/21/2005 6:00:40 AM PST by adam_az (It's the border, stupid!)
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To: Pukin Dog

"She was a whore. She had to go."


Nah - her husband was part of a bloody war in Gaul for years without being able to send her a message, and she thought he was dead.


171 posted on 11/21/2005 6:17:01 AM PST by adam_az (It's the border, stupid!)
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To: rintense

"Octavian, the master thinker he is, now knows Servilla used his sister for information to damn his family."


...and we know how much Octavian loves his sister! (sorry, couldn't resist.)


172 posted on 11/21/2005 6:22:32 AM PST by adam_az (It's the border, stupid!)
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To: Pukin Dog
Because she lied, she is a whore.

That's crazy talk.

If she lied, that makes her a liar. If she slept around, that makes her a whore. Lying does not make one a whore.

And besides, she thought he was dead. And when he came back, she had never loved him, and still didn't. He was a hardened soldier, and she was afraid he would kill her, as well as her child.

Even today, there are women who lie to their husbands when they fear being beaten or killed. Natural response, I think.

And since they did come to love each other, I am sad for Vorenus. He was so happy for a few episodes. And now, just like Pullo had to watch Vorenus be in love, Vorenus is without and Pullo gets his woman. Damned show.

173 posted on 11/21/2005 7:02:30 AM PST by teenyelliott (Soylent green should be made outta liberals...)
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To: 0siris
The show smartly realizes that the story is Vorenus and Pullo, given that they are fictional characters...

Actually, Vorenus and Pullo were real, but nothing much is known about them. They were the only common soldiers mentioned in Caesar writings of the Gaul campaign. The very first scene in the first episode is taken from "A Short Story of the Two Sargents" where Pullo breaks formation and Vorenus has to save him. But they were both of the same rank and in heavy competition for a promotion in real life.

http://community.middlebury.edu/~harris/Texts/CaesarV.html

174 posted on 11/21/2005 7:09:06 AM PST by Brian Mosely (A government is a body of people -- usually notably ungoverned)
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To: Pukin Dog

Having just watched the episode, I'd just say that the dark look that Octavian gives to Servilla indicates that he's 'marked' her.


175 posted on 11/21/2005 7:28:17 AM PST by Tallguy
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To: teenyelliott

Yes, looks like a role reversal for sure. But Pullo will never leave Vorenus. He will be there for him, whether Vorenus wants him there or not. It will be interesting to see how Vorenus reacts to Pullo killing junior's daddy.


176 posted on 11/21/2005 7:30:54 AM PST by rintense
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To: rintense
It will be interesting to see how Vorenus reacts to Pullo killing junior's daddy.

No telling. Vorenus is always mad about something.

But I think he would be more upset that Pullo knew, and didn't tell him, than the fact that he killed the guy.

177 posted on 11/21/2005 7:36:53 AM PST by teenyelliott (Soylent green should be made outta liberals...)
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To: teenyelliott; All
I had lots of wine last night, and it shows in my posts on this subject. Of course, Niobe is not a whore. I will still miss her breasts, though.
178 posted on 11/21/2005 8:01:30 AM PST by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: Tallguy
Yeah, but Servilla doesn't die in historical texts. I think it will be Octavian's lesbian sister that will save Servilla from being gutted.
179 posted on 11/21/2005 8:03:23 AM PST by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: Pukin Dog

That is pretty funny. Drunk posting. Perhaps one night we can all plan to get plastered, and then start a thread in the SBR for laughs the next day.


180 posted on 11/21/2005 8:08:29 AM PST by teenyelliott (Soylent green should be made outta liberals...)
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To: teenyelliott
Oh, well, with me you can pick just about any night.(kidding)

I had a nice(cheap) Tisdale Shiraz last night. Doc says Pukin should switch to red wine from Scotch Whiskey. I aint giving up the Whiskey, but I am adding the Red Wine.
181 posted on 11/21/2005 9:18:31 AM PST by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: rintense

I have a hunch,from the look he gave her after she was finished threatening his mother, that Octavian was measuring Servilia for her funeral shroud. Looked like she knew it, too.


182 posted on 11/21/2005 9:20:41 AM PST by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: Pukin Dog
As far as reds go, I love Chianti, without the fava beans, and I love sangria.

I really prefer Rieslings or my new fave, Peisporter Goldtroppen Asalaisa. And I am sure I spelled all of that incorrectly.

183 posted on 11/21/2005 9:21:33 AM PST by teenyelliott (Soylent green should be made outta liberals...)
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To: Pukin Dog

BTW, mu hubby's dad was told by his doc that he needed a good stiff liquor drink (any kind of whiskey will do)and(yes, they are southern), every night. So he drinks a couple, just to be on the safe side. : )


184 posted on 11/21/2005 9:26:10 AM PST by teenyelliott (Soylent green should be made outta liberals...)
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To: 0siris

Not a lot of time for Cicero. He barely survives a year after Ceaser's death.


185 posted on 11/21/2005 9:26:40 AM PST by Melas (What!? Read or learn something? Why would anyone do that, when they can just go on being stupid)
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To: 0siris

After Latin 3, I CAN'T wait for Cicero to get whacked!


186 posted on 11/21/2005 9:28:01 AM PST by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: Callahan

Nah, the next 12 episodes will no doubt be about the 2nd triumvirate where Antony will marry Octavia all ally himself with Octavius. The political split between those two should be a long way off.


187 posted on 11/21/2005 9:32:35 AM PST by Melas (What!? Read or learn something? Why would anyone do that, when they can just go on being stupid)
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To: beebuster2000

Don't worry, it's a long way to greatness. Octavian first becomes the jr. member of the 2nd triumvirate and controls the lesser 1/3 of the empire. His story will have to include how his portion of the empire is plagued by Pompey's brat, now a pirate, and how he deals with him.


188 posted on 11/21/2005 9:34:29 AM PST by Melas (What!? Read or learn something? Why would anyone do that, when they can just go on being stupid)
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To: Melas

I think the producers have a dilemma. Do they take their time telling the story and risk losing cast members or do they speed it up so some can die off and leave. Since they already paid for the set, I hope it runs many years. Their story is already there.


189 posted on 11/21/2005 9:34:58 AM PST by bigsigh
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To: PzLdr

LOL. I took two years in HS from the priests. If you were on the football team and shut up in class you got a C. Our class had a guy who seemed to know the original Latin at birth. He and the priest read and interpreted back and forth. The guy was the smartest in our class of 79 and drove a school bus for a living.


190 posted on 11/21/2005 9:36:57 AM PST by bigsigh
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

Shakespeare only changed it slightly. Shakespeare coined the "You too Brutus?" albeit in Latin for flavor, while history records that Ceaser's last words were, "Even you my child?" Save for the affection in the latter, not much different.


191 posted on 11/21/2005 9:37:10 AM PST by Melas (What!? Read or learn something? Why would anyone do that, when they can just go on being stupid)
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To: Pukin Dog

Unlikely. Octavia's future lies with Marc Antony, the husband who will abandon her for Cleopatra.


192 posted on 11/21/2005 9:42:45 AM PST by Melas (What!? Read or learn something? Why would anyone do that, when they can just go on being stupid)
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To: bigsigh

Well, the producers have 400 years of Rome left to go. The first 12 episodes spanned more years than the casual viewer with no command of history realizes.


193 posted on 11/21/2005 9:44:39 AM PST by Melas (What!? Read or learn something? Why would anyone do that, when they can just go on being stupid)
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To: LibFreeOrDie

You are aware that actavious is infact destined to become the first true emperor of Rome, he is infact Caeser Agustus considered to be the greatest of the Roman Emperors. They directors have done a good job of showing him as very polictically adept. His sexuallity was in question


194 posted on 11/21/2005 9:59:31 AM PST by qman
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To: jp3

that's where I've seen him!! but what's this 2007 business?


195 posted on 11/21/2005 5:30:00 PM PST by tai-pan (Mitch Rapp is my hero)
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To: tai-pan

Creators unsure if the series would be a hit. After the first few episodes this season, the producers contracted the actors for another season but that season wont air until Feb/Mar of 2007. Believe me, we're all aching over it....

Our little Max Pirkis will be a good 3 years older by then and will perhaps play the part of an emperor...depending on where they decide to pick up the story. Until then, I will familiarize myself with I, Claudius.


196 posted on 11/21/2005 7:02:44 PM PST by jp3 ("Who cares what entertainers think about international affairs." Johnny Carson, Dec. 1967)
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To: jp3

We are all going to die in 2007!

197 posted on 11/21/2005 7:33:07 PM PST by DCBryan1
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To: jp3

Hopefully Niobe returns in 2007 with a bandage.

198 posted on 11/21/2005 7:34:39 PM PST by DCBryan1
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To: jp3

Cassius: "Brutus, the 2007 script says we die next season".

199 posted on 11/21/2005 7:36:35 PM PST by DCBryan1
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To: teenyelliott

What a sad end to wonderful acting from Ciaran Hinds.

200 posted on 11/21/2005 7:38:46 PM PST by DCBryan1
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