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Time to Leave (Time to Surrender)
NY Slime ^ | November 21 2005 | PAUL KRUGMAN

Posted on 11/20/2005 10:01:13 PM PST by jmc1969

Not long ago wise heads offered some advice to those of us who had argued since 2003 that the Iraq war was sold on false pretenses: give it up. The 2004 election, they said, showed that we would never convince the American people. They suggested that we stop talking about how we got into Iraq and focus instead on what to do next.

It turns out that the wise heads were wrong. A solid majority of Americans now believe that we were misled into war. And it is only now, when the public has realized the truth about the past, that serious discussions about where we are and where we're going are able to get a hearing.

Representative John Murtha's speech calling for a quick departure from Iraq was full of passion, but it was also serious and specific in a way rarely seen on the other side of the debate. President Bush and his apologists speak in vague generalities about staying the course and finishing the job. But Mr. Murtha spoke of mounting casualties and lagging recruiting, the rising frequency of insurgent attacks, stagnant oil production and lack of clean water.

The only way to justify staying in Iraq is to make the case that stretching the U.S. army to its breaking point will buy time for something good to happen. I don't think you can make that case convincingly. So Mr. Murtha is right: it's time to leave.

(Excerpt) Read more at select.nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: cutandrun; handwringers; krugman; murtha

1 posted on 11/20/2005 10:01:14 PM PST by jmc1969
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To: jmc1969

KRUGMAN pfft!


2 posted on 11/20/2005 10:02:43 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: jmc1969
Here's your answer Paul Slugman:

Is this Iraq's Walter Cronkite moment?("A Canadian's Opinion" )

3 posted on 11/20/2005 10:03:21 PM PST by streetpreacher (If at the end of the day, 100% of both sides are not angry with me, I've failed.)
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To: jmc1969
Oh for the love of PETE!
4 posted on 11/20/2005 10:03:42 PM PST by Psycho_Bunny (Base. All Yours = Mine.)
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To: jmc1969
I'm pushing these Photoshops tonight... forgive me!



5 posted on 11/20/2005 10:05:59 PM PST by SteveMcKing ("I was born a Democrat. I expect I'll be a Democrat the day I leave this earth." -Zell Miller '04)
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To: jmc1969
So Mr. Murtha is right: it's time to leave.

And Mr. Krugman is wrong. Again.

6 posted on 11/20/2005 10:07:34 PM PST by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: jmc1969

Just call me "CUT AND RUN" Liberal, socialist, elitist, dummycrat, and I will be rinning for the US Senate in 06!

All you idiots who voted for Bush, remember to vote for a liberal in 06. WE "cut and run" when the going gets political!


7 posted on 11/20/2005 10:08:20 PM PST by standing united (82nd ABN 1/508th BN Bco 1st Sqd. Alpha Fireteam Leader: "fury from the sky" 8-Duce on the Loose!!)
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To: jmc1969
To the dims Z-man isn't evil. Just nice and cuddely.
8 posted on 11/20/2005 10:09:08 PM PST by jmc1969
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To: jmc1969

I thought you had to pay for his columns? Are they back to giving this crap away for free? Or is this fair use? Just Curious.


9 posted on 11/20/2005 10:11:34 PM PST by There You Go Again
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To: jmc1969

It's a good thing that the Left hates war and killing, and are so educated that they can think these things thru </sarcasm>

If we leave quickly:

- We insure another 50 years of the same war tactics against us (Tet-sytle hits that look awful on the news, but are not militarily significant)

- Assure another Lebanon, Afghanistan, etc in that it becomes anarchy, torn by civil war, and a headquarters for terrorists

- and will no doubt insure that the 2-3 million deaths in southeast Asia after our departure will be surpassed.

I figure the Kurds will try to put together a greater Kurdistan, starting with the oil-rich base in northern Iraq. This will draw Iran, Syria, and Turkey into conflict with their Kurdish populations, who no doubt will realize that they are fighting to the death if they rise up.

In addition, Iran has a vested interest in the Shiite holy places and the Shiite populations, not to mention the oil in that part of the world.



10 posted on 11/20/2005 10:11:47 PM PST by TWohlford
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To: jmc1969

The New Left: Stuck on Coward, since the 1960s.

11 posted on 11/20/2005 10:12:48 PM PST by JRios1968 ("Cogito, ergo FReep": I think, therefore I FReep.)
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To: jmc1969

Does this man know the meaning of "honor"? Of "commitment"? Of finishing a job correctly? Guess not ....

My BIL thinks Krugman hung the moon, and we're going to his house for Thanksgiving. Yikes. Should be a "fun" holiday.


12 posted on 11/20/2005 10:13:39 PM PST by Hetty_Fauxvert (Kelo must GO!! ..... http://sonoma-moderate.blogspot.com/)
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To: jmc1969
403-3 You lose Paulie! Time to leave the stadium.
13 posted on 11/20/2005 10:14:03 PM PST by LZ_Bayonet
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To: jmc1969

So .. this idiot was out of town on Friday and didn't see all the democrats vote NO - on pullout in Iraq ..??

Or this means that the vote didn't really mean anything to the democrats .. they were just playing politics as usual.


14 posted on 11/20/2005 10:14:15 PM PST by CyberAnt ( I believe Congressman Curt Weldon re Able Danger)
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To: There You Go Again

a few paragraphs is fair use.


15 posted on 11/20/2005 10:14:43 PM PST by jmc1969
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To: standing united
Just call me "CUT AND RUN" Liberal, socialist, elitist, dummycrat, and I will be rinning for the US Senate in 06!

I call you a DUmmy.


16 posted on 11/20/2005 10:15:26 PM PST by JRios1968 ("Cogito, ergo FReep": I think, therefore I FReep.)
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To: jmc1969

>>>A solid majority of Americans now believe that we were misled into war<<<

Because they have heard nothing but lies and propaganda from the left wing media since the war began.

>>>And it is only now, when the public has realized the truth about the past<<<

Uh, Commie Paul, the public has been deceived. How about a little truth from you and your fellow propagandists and liars, for a change?

>>>But Mr. Murtha spoke of mounting casualties and lagging recruiting, the rising frequency of insurgent attacks, stagnant oil production and lack of clean water. <<<

And in doing so he convinced anyone with half-a-brain that he is a dimwit, on the order of Cindy Sheehan. Even President Bush had to back off grouping him with Michael Moore, because the President quickly realized there is no way Murtha is in the same league, intellectually, with Moore.

>>>So Mr. Murtha is right: it's time to leave.<<<

Which convinces me that we should stay. You will most likely never be wrong if you do the opposite of what Commie Paul Krugman suggests. And if Commie Paul suggests the same as Murtha, you can be guaranteed to be correct if you do the opposite.


17 posted on 11/20/2005 10:16:09 PM PST by PhilipFreneau ("The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. " - Psalms 14:1, 53:1)
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To: Hetty_Fauxvert
Does this man know the meaning of "honor"? Of "commitment"? Of finishing a job correctly? Guess not ....

You have to remember, Paul Slugman was an advisor to Enron during the time Enron was cooking the books...then when Enron collapsed, he cut and ran, and tried to blame Enron on Bush. Of course he has no such concepts!

18 posted on 11/20/2005 10:17:30 PM PST by JRios1968 ("Cogito, ergo FReep": I think, therefore I FReep.)
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To: jmc1969

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1460062/posts


19 posted on 11/20/2005 10:19:16 PM PST by april15Bendovr
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To: JRios1968

Speaking of TROLLS! Of course now who is the real dummy?

You don't know -sarcasm- when you see it? The troll is on you my friend!


20 posted on 11/20/2005 10:22:54 PM PST by standing united (82nd ABN 1/508th BN Bco 1st Sqd. Alpha Fireteam Leader: "fury from the sky" 8-Duce on the Loose!!)
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To: jmc1969
So Paul Krudmunch is taking time off from advocating for the destruction of capitalism to advocating for the destruction of freedom.

I bet his mother can't stand him.

21 posted on 11/20/2005 10:24:59 PM PST by smoothsailing (540th TC (AM)(GS) QuiNhon 68-69)
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To: jmc1969

Yeah, Paul, and George Washington should have cut his losses and not crossed the Delaware.


22 posted on 11/20/2005 10:26:21 PM PST by DTogo (I haven't left the GOP, the GOP left me.)
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To: jmc1969

Isn't the New York Times yesterday's news?


23 posted on 11/20/2005 10:36:34 PM PST by MikeHu
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To: jmc1969
Paul Krugman is a professor at Princeton. As such, he should be aware of the career of Neville Chamberlain and the "peace in our time" that he obtained by not fighting Hitler, in 1939. And if Krugman is aware of this, then there is no way he can justify the geopolitical drivel he writes in this column.

He and his newspaper are simultaneously dishonest, ludicrous, and wrong. Quite a trifecta, but they've achieved that before. Many times.

Congressman Billybob

Latest column: "What If the French Had Pulled a 'Murtha' in 1781?"

24 posted on 11/20/2005 10:37:41 PM PST by Congressman Billybob (Do you think Fitzpatrick resembled Captain Queeg, coming apart on the witness stand?)
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To: jmc1969
"Paul you ever notice that I never ask condescending questions to demagogue liberals such as yourself?"

"Yes Jon I have and thank you for being a loyal left wing butt-swab."
25 posted on 11/20/2005 10:39:25 PM PST by april15Bendovr
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To: jmc1969

Well, we've found one of Times Select's 150,000 subscribers. Anymore out there?


26 posted on 11/20/2005 10:43:47 PM PST by tanuki
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To: tanuki

So when are those other 150,000 going to figure out it's much cheaper just to read it online than to pay for a regular subscription -- and eliminate a forest a day?


27 posted on 11/20/2005 10:50:20 PM PST by MikeHu
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To: jmc1969

Paul Krugman, the Marxist of the millenium. Has there EVER been a wrong-headed, misguided and anti-American position this loser hasn't agreed with?


28 posted on 11/20/2005 10:50:55 PM PST by MikeA
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To: jmc1969
Don't tell me you paid for this!

I love how Krug's a little behind the times. The Pubbies smoked out the RATs, they had to tell their moonbat constituency that, no, they weren't for an immediate pullout after all.

29 posted on 11/20/2005 10:53:06 PM PST by AmishDude (Mathematics -- better than science, harder than science, and always true. Always.)
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To: jmc1969

Hey, Paul!

There is a difference. http://www.pottymouth.org/humor/shinola.html


30 posted on 11/20/2005 10:54:53 PM PST by Nasty McPhilthy (Those who beat their swords into plow shears….will plow for those who don’t.)
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To: tanuki

Actually no I don't subscribe, it doesn't mean I can't find passwords for these news sites.


31 posted on 11/20/2005 10:56:16 PM PST by jmc1969
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To: PhilipFreneau

When will we learn how manipulated polls are?????? We can't believe the MSM and we can't believe their polls. The majority of people in this country still support Bush. Who else can a sensible person support? George Soros? Kennedy?Clinton? Biden? Schumer? Kerry? We're toast if we don't stand behind Bush in the fight against terrorism. Wake up! We're in World War III.


32 posted on 11/20/2005 11:17:00 PM PST by dimmer-rats stealvotes (Catching onto the FOX Fonies)
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To: JRios1968

I think he was being sarcastic.


33 posted on 11/20/2005 11:27:31 PM PST by Republican Wildcat
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To: jmc1969

re: "A solid majority of Americans now believe that we were misled into war"

A more accurate description would be that a solid majority of Americans have been misled into believing that we were misled into a war.



34 posted on 11/21/2005 2:17:01 AM PST by jwpjr
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To: JRios1968
Just call me "CUT AND RUN" Liberal, socialist, elitist, dummycrat, and I will be rinning for the US Senate in 06!

Did he say "rimming?"
35 posted on 11/21/2005 2:45:51 AM PST by Beckwith (The liberal press has picked sides ... and they have sided with the Islamofascists)
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To: All

Surrendering, giving ground to Islamo-facists, betraying the Iraqi people, destroying troop moral, making the United States look weak, small price to pay for bringing George Bush down.

The United States is one country divided by who it thinks is the enemy.

The libs don't hate the war, they hate Bush. Their hatred for Bush is the sun in their universe. It illumines all else.


36 posted on 11/21/2005 3:12:40 AM PST by looloo
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To: JRios1968

37 posted on 11/21/2005 5:11:00 AM PST by Sender (Team Infidel USA)
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To: Republican Wildcat
Or just living dangerously. Beware the overly sensitive.
38 posted on 11/21/2005 5:21:16 AM PST by wolfcreek
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To: jmc1969
He needs to get in touch with the jackass demoncrats who voted against leaving when their bluff was called. What a POS liberal!
39 posted on 11/21/2005 5:42:24 AM PST by conservativecorner
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To: jmc1969

Was going to read the article until I saw who wrote it.


40 posted on 11/21/2005 6:17:56 AM PST by CaptRon (Pedecaris alive or Raisuli dead)
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To: PhilipFreneau
>"Because they have heard nothing but lies and propaganda from the left wing media since the war began. "

Just this morning abc's enemedia radio spot on how our troops are killing small women and children in cold blood, on their way from a funeral. No doubt the erratic driving towards our troops checkpoint was caused by their grief of being in an occupied territory, just like palestine.
If only we would follow Cidney Shanhee orders, and run away from the peace loving religion of peace, then all would be peacefull

""""if you need a sarcasm tag

What IS ABC's official position on broadcasting ENEMY PROPOGANDA????????


Aap aap ahh dap dap!!!!!
Ours is a religion of peace


It aint Slim W, but this'll gitr done!
KIll A Commie For Mommie

Seven Dead Monkeys Page O Tunes

41 posted on 11/21/2005 6:41:37 AM PST by rawcatslyentist ("Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous"---Hobbes the Tiger)
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To: standing united
Speaking of TROLLS! Of course now who is the real dummy?

You don't know -sarcasm- when you see it? The troll is on you my friend!

I guess I was too busy to notice the ...

Oh, wait, you didn't use the tag, and you made a great impression of a troll. I still think you are one, and should go back to DU, little one.

42 posted on 11/21/2005 6:37:19 PM PST by JRios1968 ("Cogito, ergo FReep": I think, therefore I FReep.)
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To: Beckwith
Did he say "rimming?"

Seeing how it types like a DUmmy, I wouldn't run odds either way...

43 posted on 11/21/2005 6:38:20 PM PST by JRios1968 ("Cogito, ergo FReep": I think, therefore I FReep.)
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To: Sender

Poor Bill the Cat...he didn't deserve to be in the same post as Soros...


44 posted on 11/21/2005 6:40:58 PM PST by JRios1968 ("Cogito, ergo FReep": I think, therefore I FReep.)
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To: JRios1968

True, Soros doesn't have his tongue out and it's an insult to Bill.


45 posted on 11/21/2005 6:51:01 PM PST by Sender (Team Infidel USA)
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To: jmc1969

Sorry, I didn't mean to demean a fellow Freeper. I was trying to belittle the 'success' of TimeSelect. 150,000 paying subscribers should just get them out of Manhatten.

Hope it's not too late for an apology.


46 posted on 01/08/2006 7:38:05 PM PST by tanuki
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To: Anti-Bubba182
You can basically stop reading the minute you see the name Paul Krugman on the by-line.
47 posted on 01/08/2006 7:41:01 PM PST by Uncle Vlad
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