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McCartney attacks China over fur
BBC ^ | 11/28/05 | Adrian Addison

Posted on 11/28/2005 11:40:43 AM PST by bloggodocio

Sir Paul McCartney has vowed never to perform in China after seeing horrific undercover footage of dogs and cats being killed for their fur.

The former Beatle also said he would boycott the 2008 Beijing Olympics after viewing the footage taken in a fur market in Guangzhou, southern China.

The film shows animals being thrown from a bus, and into boiling water.

A Chinese official said boycotts were not justified, and blamed US and European consumers for buying the fur.

In the film, dogs and cats packed by the dozen into wire cages little bigger than lobster pots are pictured being thrown from the top deck of a converted bus onto concrete pavements.

The screaming animals, many with their paws now smashed from the fall, are then lifted out with long metal tongs and thrown over a seven foot fence.

They are then killed and skinned for their fur.

Animal welfare group Peta believes many of them are still alive as their skins are peeled away.

Sir Paul, and his wife Heather, looked aghast and close to tears as they watched the footage for a special report for the BBC's Six O'clock News to be screened on Monday.

They urged people not to buy Chinese goods.

"This is barbaric. Horrific," said Sir Paul.

"It's like something out of the dark ages. And they seem to get a kick out it. They're just sick, sick people.

"I wouldn't even dream of going over there to play, in the same way I wouldn't go to a country that supported apartheid. This is just disgusting. It's just against every rule of humanity. I couldn't go there."

In another piece of the harrowing footage, shot this summer by an undercover investigator connected to the People for the Ethical treatment of Animals (Peta) campaign group, cats are seen squirming inside a sack which is then thrown into a vat of steaming water.

They are boiled to death and skinned by a fleecing machine similar to a launderette tumble drier.

Some of the 28-minute footage is too gruesome to be broadcast.

Campaigners estimate that over two million dogs and cats are killed for their fur in China every year. China also farms animals such as mink for their fur and makes over half of the world's fur products.

McCartney added: "How can the host nation of the Olympics be seen allowing animals to be treated in this terrible way?"

Heather McCartney, herself a vociferous animal rights campaigner added: "I've seen so much footage where these poor creatures are clearly alive when they're skinned. And for what? For fashion? It's sick.

"People in every other country in the world should now boycott Chinese goods."

"If they want to consider themselves a civilized nation," said Sir Paul, "they're going to have to stop this."

A spokesman for the Chinese Ambassador in London told the BBC: "Though cats and dogs are not endangered, we do not encourage the ill treatment of cats and dogs.

"But, anyway, the fur trade mostly feeds markets in the US and Europe. Most of this fur is not for the Chinese market. So the Americans and Europeans should accept the blame.

"We have no plans to clamp down on this internally that I am aware of - it is for the US and Europeans to take their own action. They should boycott fur as a fashion material.

"I do not agree with Mr McCartney and his wife's point of view - a boycott of Chinese goods and the Olympics is simply not justifiable."

It is not currently illegal to trade in dog and cat fur in the UK and most of Europe.

Ethical abhorrence

But the UK government sees any legislation as being a European issue - as once the fur enters Europe from China, free trade and the difficulty of identifying the fur makes it almost impossible to police.

A DTI spokesman told the BBC: "The government shares the ethical abhorrence felt by many. That is why it banned by statute fur farming in the UK in 2000.

"Action is best taken at the EU level as a harmonised approach throughout the EU would have greater impact and avoid obstacles to the operation of the single market."

There is little evidence, as yet, of the fur products being sold in the UK. Campaigners insist they are available up and down the country, but it is impossible to tell the difference from other fur without the aid of expensive genetic tests.

The British Fur Trade Association, which represents the booming fur industry in the UK, insists that its members do not knowingly use dog and cat fur and have introduced a fur labelling system to try to guard against its use.

"As an industry, we are against any form of animal cruelty," said a spokeswoman.

"We deplore and work against the mistreatment of animals. For this reason, we also actively support and encourage the adoption of Western fur farming practices on Chinese fur farms."

Ruse accusation

But pro-fur campaigner Richard D North says a European ban is heavy handed.

"This is a ruse by campaigners to attack the legitimate fur trade. Nobody has ever found a large amount of cat and dog fur in the UK.

"The European fur industry would never use it. Why bother, when there are lovely skins from properly farmed animals?"

Euro MP Struan Stevenson has an array of cat and dog products in his Brussels office - including a coat made from Alsatian skin, a pelt made from four golden retrievers and a blanket made from around 70 cats. All were bought in Europe.

"It's cheaper to make these things from cat and dog than it is to make synthetic fur," he told the BBC.

"It really is time for this trade to be banned and the EU border to be sealed against it. And the new trade commissioner is more than sympathetic."

Markos Kyprianou, EU Commissioner for Health and Consumer Protection, is responsible for this area of EU law.

His spokesman, Phillip Todd, told the BBC: "As a human being, the commissioner abhors this trade and is very supportive of there being a ban. There are, however, legal obstacles which would need to be addressed before a ban could be put in place."


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To: bloggodocio

Let me see if I get the liberal mindset. Forced abortions, using babies bodies for their stem cells, and murder of political dissedents by communists, OK, set up the concert. Use of fur from Dogs and Cats, that is horrible. Stop the planet I want to get off. Skinning an animal alive is wrong, but hardly compares to the real horrors of China.


51 posted on 11/28/2005 12:24:06 PM PST by sharkhawk (Play me a dirge matey)
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To: angkor
It's a cultural investigation.

Whatever... Half the posters thinking whatever Paul says must be wrong because he's Paul, and he's a lefty, Half think he shouldn't care about this as long as people suffer, as if there is only one good cause in life, a few will proclaim that there is no reason not to wear dog, we should all do it, as if we have no higher relationship with dogs in this country than we have with our food, and some will read it and just be saddened.

I guess I'm in the latter. I sometimes get so fed up with the vile product of mankind, I see little worth in the lot of us :~D

52 posted on 11/28/2005 12:25:29 PM PST by HairOfTheDog (Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/ 1,000 knives and counting!)
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To: Nonstatist
Why? Well, because Samoyeds are great dogs; friendly, strong, brave, perserverent, good with children, loyal. Great companions.

Obviously you're a fan of the breed. I picked a fuzzy dog picture at random, it's nothing personal.

Why would I want them killed for their fur when you can make similar stuff in a factory??

Apparently, it's cheaper to use dog and cat fur.

Instead, How bout we take ten of your best human friends and skin them for their hair, to make wigs out of (fake wigs are no fun) ? Only we won't kill them, since that would be mean.

Why don't you dry your eyes, blow your nose, take a deep breath, and reread my post (The first one, where I said I'm not inclined to wear fur), and realize that since I don't buy fur, and don't eat much meat, you don't have to kill my friends to keep your dogs safe.

53 posted on 11/28/2005 12:31:14 PM PST by LongElegantLegs (Yarn-ho.)
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To: LongElegantLegs
why is it any more cruel to wear a dog than it is to wear a fox or mink

Oh, so all animals lower than human deserve the same disdain? From the lowly snake to the dog and cat? No credit for human companionship or basic compatability?

Is this in the Bible? I must have missed that particular lesson.

54 posted on 11/28/2005 12:34:12 PM PST by Nonstatist
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To: bloggodocio

We kill cattle and use the beef for food and hides for upholstered products, we kill hogs and use the pigskin to wrap an oblong ball for that famous anti-islamite Sunday ballgame.

The Chinese kill dogs and cats and use the meat for food (delicacy - not for average fare) and the hides are used for stuffed toys.

Because we've preferred one domesticated specie over another for food doesn't mean we're any different.

"There's a cat in the kettle at the Peking Moon,
A little puppy dog on the end of a spoon.
I'd really rather have beef, chicken, or pork -
but it's right there on my fork. Yea, it's right there on my fork."


55 posted on 11/28/2005 12:34:59 PM PST by azhenfud (He who always is looking up seldom finds others' lost change.)
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To: LongElegantLegs
you don't have to kill my friends to keep your dogs safe.

You don't have to kill dogs to get access to their fur , either. But thats what they do in China. I think it's SICK, personally.

56 posted on 11/28/2005 12:36:19 PM PST by Nonstatist
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To: bloggodocio

If animals are being boiled or skinned alive, I find that I have common ground with Sir Paul here. Can these allegations be verified?


57 posted on 11/28/2005 12:40:21 PM PST by RonF
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To: Nonstatist
Oh, so all animals lower than human deserve the same disdain?

As long as you disdain them all equally.
Seriously, though, say you had a pet mink, or fox, or raccoon, that you loved and raised from a tiny baby. If your neighbor's pit bull got hold of it, would you shoot the dog?
Of course you would. It's not the species that matters, but how close the animal is to you.

Is this in the Bible? I must have missed that particular lesson.

You also must have missed the part where I completely fail to bring the Bible into this discussion.

58 posted on 11/28/2005 12:44:54 PM PST by LongElegantLegs (Yarn-ho.)
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To: RonF

Back in '98, I went through the farmers' market in Guangzhou - before the SARS episode. I SAW them knock a cat unconscious (killed? I don't know) and dip it into a cauldron of about six gallons of boiling water. It was immediately skinned and hanged upon a hook by the sinews of the hind feet.

The last time I was in Guangzhou, the market had been cleaned up, the restaurant (I then thought was a pet shop) no longer had live, caged animals at the entrance.


59 posted on 11/28/2005 12:48:05 PM PST by azhenfud (He who always is looking up seldom finds others' lost change.)
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To: bloggodocio

Wow. So glad that old beatle is on top of that fur thing. We certainly wouldn't want to waste anytime on a silly thing like forced abortions and other lack of human rights over there.


60 posted on 11/28/2005 12:48:52 PM PST by Lanza
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To: Nonstatist

Alot of animals are killed for their fur, but I think the way they treat them is sick, too.


61 posted on 11/28/2005 12:50:38 PM PST by LongElegantLegs (Yarn-ho.)
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To: Nonstatist
"Is this in the Bible?"

Genesis 9:3

62 posted on 11/28/2005 12:53:08 PM PST by azhenfud (He who always is looking up seldom finds others' lost change.)
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Comment #63 Removed by Moderator

To: bloggodocio

What's wrong with fur? Animals wear it. Why can't we? There is a place for animals. It's right between the mashed potatoes and vegetables.


64 posted on 11/28/2005 12:54:48 PM PST by rfreedom4u (Native Texan)
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To: SunnySide

absolutely right. the only countries that could compete with China in human rights abuses are N. Korea and Cuba. My boss (this past summer) was from Cuba. He told me some horror stories.

For instance, every STREET had a Party house. But not like the local frat house where ya go to "party" it up every weekend. Basically, the Party house was inhabited by that street's representative. However, he did not represent the neighbors, but Castro. And his only job was to walk around the street during the day and promote Castro's image. If anyone said anything in disagreement, the rep would hear about it. My boss said that it was not uncommon for a friend's father to disappear in the middle of the night, often never heard from again.

that's just one of the fairytales he told me from his life in Cuba.


65 posted on 11/28/2005 12:55:31 PM PST by Zeppelin (Stop Global Warming. Shut a Liberal's Mouth.)
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To: bloggodocio

OF course, he doens't mind a bit that political prisoners are killed for their organs.

They're just people, after all.


66 posted on 11/28/2005 12:55:59 PM PST by Constantine XIII
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To: Nonstatist

Oh yes - might I also add...

Proverbs Ch.12:10
A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.


67 posted on 11/28/2005 12:56:19 PM PST by azhenfud (He who always is looking up seldom finds others' lost change.)
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To: bloggodocio

"Don't make it too obvious but I wanna see fur, and early morning dew."


68 posted on 11/28/2005 12:57:40 PM PST by Recovering Hermit (Amateur naked ear squatter.)
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To: Recovering Hermit
Easy there Rafterman!
69 posted on 11/28/2005 1:03:59 PM PST by wireman
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To: NavyCanDo
Shut up and sing Paul, shut up and sing.
Shut Up and DON'T sing Paul, your lyrics are trite.
70 posted on 11/28/2005 1:09:52 PM PST by jrg
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To: bloggodocio
Sir Paul McCartney has vowed never to perform in China after seeing horrific undercover footage of dogs and cats being killed for their fur.

Of course that the Chinese authorities torture people to death for their religious beliefs ain't so bad -- but being mean to a dog -- that's over the line.

71 posted on 11/28/2005 1:11:30 PM PST by tallhappy (Juntos Podemos!)
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To: Nonstatist
"Somoyeds?! That's really, really cruel!"

It looks more like an American Eskimo than a Samoyed. The pointy nose and small feet are a give away.

The more I know about people, the more I appreciate my dog.
72 posted on 11/28/2005 1:17:59 PM PST by USFRIENDINVICTORIA (")
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To: angkor
I didn't know that dog and cat fur was fashionable in the West

I remember back in the 70's or 80's some dog and cat fur was found in the US and was immediately banned. I don't remember how it got here, but it was being passed off as something else.

Anyway, there are humane was to kill animals. Why does China have to be so brutal about everything?!

73 posted on 11/28/2005 1:36:07 PM PST by Americanchild
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To: Bavarian Leprechaun
The Fab Four = John Lennon plus three.

The Fab Four = George Martin + 4 FLUNKIES!

74 posted on 11/28/2005 1:40:06 PM PST by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything.")
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To: theFIRMbss
Rabbit fur is often used as a 'cover' for dog and cat fur

Anyone who can't tell the difference between rabbit and dog or cat fur needs to get out more.

75 posted on 11/28/2005 1:42:18 PM PST by Americanchild
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To: angkor

A while back I watched a fascinating show on food in China. There were housecats in cages and snakes in pits with metal covers. Also rats, rabbits and dogs. All at the food market.

The images from that show haunt me to this day. I am not a vegan, so I have no problem with them eating whatever floats their boat. However, if animals are going to be slaughtered for food or fur/skin/leather whatever, let's try to do it in the most humane way possible.


76 posted on 11/28/2005 1:42:50 PM PST by GatorGirl
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To: bloggodocio

On the plus side, all this activity is keeping Paulie from recording another one of his unlistenable albums.


77 posted on 11/28/2005 1:45:58 PM PST by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything.")
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To: bloggodocio

Gotta wonder how outraged McCartney is about forced abortions and other human rights abuses in China.


78 posted on 11/28/2005 1:50:08 PM PST by Bonaparte
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To: rfreedom4u

Fur is warm. Synthetics cannot match the warmth. I don't know why; they just can't. We just need to be sure we are raising and killing them humanely.


79 posted on 11/28/2005 1:51:19 PM PST by Americanchild
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To: Americanchild
>Anyone who can't tell the difference between rabbit and dog or cat fur needs to get out more

Take off the long tail
and I don't think I could tell
the bunny from cat . . .


80 posted on 11/28/2005 2:28:45 PM PST by theFIRMbss
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To: GatorGirl

I agree with you completely on all points. But I don't like it when everyone shrugs this off just because they don't care for the messengers, PETA and McCartney, instead of the unbelievably horrendous treatment of animals - I don't think even the Chinese would throw people in boiling water and skin them still half alive, do they??? Words don't do justice to the horrors of this disgusting practice. You have to see the footage which I have, and I think Chinese goods SHOULD BE boycotted until this behavior stops.


81 posted on 11/28/2005 2:37:31 PM PST by parisa
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To: GatorGirl
let's try to do it in the most humane way possible.

Agreed, the Chinese are somewhat ... heartless??... when it comes to their table fare.

82 posted on 11/28/2005 3:10:50 PM PST by angkor
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To: theFIRMbss
Take off the long tail and I don't think I could tell the bunny from cat

I've always had the uncanny abilty to tell one fur from another. I can usually identify a faux fur from a real one also without touching it. Maybe I've spent too much time around animals!

83 posted on 11/28/2005 3:55:37 PM PST by Americanchild
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To: Zeppelin
"I really hate to side with PETA on something, but that is just disgusting. I'm not opposed to skinning animals, but let's keep it humane."

I agree I guess. But what is humane? Should we require they each be individually sedated before they are killed? and if we require animals killed for their skins be sedated, then how can we logically require any less for animals killed for their meat?

The problem with banning dog and cat fur is, why are dogs and cats special? I have two dogs that I love. One is sitting at my feet as I type, however, if we ban dog and cat fur, logically we should ban all types of animal fur. There really isn't much difference between a cat and a mink intellectually speaking. If we ban all animal fur then logically we should also ban meat and meat byproducts.

Is this what we want? It is obvious this is what Paul McCartney and his PETA buddies want, but we need to think about where this is all heading before blindly deciding based on emotion.
84 posted on 11/28/2005 4:20:24 PM PST by monday
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To: jdm
What about not performing in China because it's...... well...... CHINA!

You'll never see any of our Political Leaders going there.

85 posted on 11/28/2005 4:23:09 PM PST by Doe Eyes
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To: Gay State Conservative

What a lighweight schlock artist he is!

Fur sure. Seriously he gets all hot and bothered with fur stories but forced abortion at 9 months gets not a word from this idiot.


86 posted on 11/28/2005 4:25:31 PM PST by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: monday

I wouldnt say "blindly deciding based on emotion." the article says that the dogs and cats were thrown into boilers alive. I too have a dog, but I don't have a problem with dogskin/catskin apparel if thats what people want, but I would require they not boil them alive, or throw them from heights to break their bones, as was depicted in the video. Simple decapitation would be much less painless. But most people would have problems with dogskin/catskin because of emotional attachment to the species, as opposed to, say, a turkey. My argument was that theres more humane ways of doing it than China is practicing.


87 posted on 11/28/2005 4:33:09 PM PST by Zeppelin (Stop Global Warming. Shut a Liberal's Mouth.)
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To: bloggodocio

Well, I think it is kind of sick, but they are only animals. I really don't care what happens to them. As for Mr. PETA, he really needs to STFU and sing. The Chinese are guilty of human atrocities. Those are important. Skinning dogs and cats is nothing compared to that.


88 posted on 11/28/2005 4:37:21 PM PST by SALChamps03
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To: Revolting cat!
The Fab Four = George Martin + 4 FLUNKIES

Now now, that's uncalled for. After all, George Martin did such a bang-up job with Gerry and the Pacemakers...

I was going to say America, but they actually did a few things without George Martin.

89 posted on 11/28/2005 7:38:58 PM PST by MikeD (We live in a world where babies are like velveteen rabbits that only become real if they are loved.)
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To: Izzy Dunne

McCartney and China fighting like cats and dogs will send the fur flying.


90 posted on 11/28/2005 7:42:08 PM PST by azhenfud (He who always is looking up seldom finds others' lost change.)
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To: angkor

NC - I think.


91 posted on 11/28/2005 7:44:05 PM PST by azhenfud (He who always is looking up seldom finds others' lost change.)
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To: GatorGirl

My guide in Guangzhou said "Chinese would eat anything with four legs - except the table and anything with wings and a tail - except an airplane."


92 posted on 11/28/2005 7:48:27 PM PST by azhenfud (He who always is looking up seldom finds others' lost change.)
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To: MikeD
I was listening to Penny Lane on the radio just yesterday afternoon, and I thought, no way these four musical illiterates had anything to do with this wonderfull arrangement, the trumpet solo, the horns, which all sounded out like they had been written out beforehand and certainly not improvised in the studio by the musicians playing.
93 posted on 11/28/2005 7:53:08 PM PST by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything.")
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To: Revolting cat!

The horn arrangement was done by McCartney & Martin, since McCartney can't read/write music. The picolo trumpet solo was McCartney's idea after watching a performance of Bach's Brandenburg Concertos on the BBC. The actual song (melody, chord sequence, etc.) is McCartney's with a *heavy* Beach Boys/Brian Wilson influence.


94 posted on 11/28/2005 8:16:06 PM PST by MikeD (We live in a world where babies are like velveteen rabbits that only become real if they are loved.)
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To: MikeD

No way. Circumstantial proof? Paulie's first solo album recorded not long after that.


95 posted on 11/28/2005 8:19:45 PM PST by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything.")
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To: MikeD; Revolting cat!
>The Fab Four = George Martin + 4 FLUNKIES
>>...they actually did a few things without George Martin







The Beatles never
recovered from this gay's guy's death.
They needed Brian.

96 posted on 11/29/2005 7:09:19 AM PST by theFIRMbss
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To: bloggodocio
Sir Paul McCartney has vowed never to perform in China after seeing horrific undercover footage of dogs and cats being killed for their fur.

I much prefer to wear my dogs and cats live.

97 posted on 11/29/2005 7:10:05 AM PST by Lazamataz (When life gives you lemons, kick it in the shins and take its wallet.)
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