Skip to comments.Bush’s Bait - The president on immigration.
Posted on 11/30/2005 3:00:33 AM PST by dennisw
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Nope and not drinking yours either.
So now your accusing us American Citizens of making the poor Mexican illegals fat! Does your disdain for American's ever end. You sir are a patriot of the highest degree, you are always right on every issue. I am amazed at the huge number of people you have managed to influence over the past few years. You always win everyone over to your side twenty seconds after an immigration thread starts. When it comes to expressing conservative ideals you are truly unmatched in the universe. We humbly bow down to your brilliance each and every day. Actually we should just rename the sight Dane's free Republic.
What the hell are you talking about. You mentioned the movie Soylent Green, a movie I believe set in the year 2005 and how shows a world of hunger and poverty, all I noted is that in the year 2005, hunger isn't a problem in America, obeseity is.
Sheesh get a grip.
Do that and the vast majority of illegal will stop coming and then controlling the border will become easy.
THANKS! And that folks comes straight from the horse's mouth. Marine Inspector works in either ICE or our Customs Service. He knows what the deal is
Sure why not, although you will conviently forget that he has cut taxes, signed a partial birth abortion bill, signed an education bill the NEA hates and IMO will lead to more school choice, signed a bill protecting gun manufactuerers from frivolus law suits, is in support of private medical accounts, has proposed real social security reform etc.etc.
So MI, is saying the way to stop illegal immigration is to contract the economy(i.e put it into recession), isn't that throwing the baby out with the bath water.
What the hell am I talking about. Are you saying that you have difficulty understanding English? Let me go very slow so even tools like yourself can understand. You are alone, you are a joke. For years you have been here fighting for your pro illegal position and you have never convinced a single person to see it your way. If you were anything other than an absolute hack you would have noticed that you could have been sneaking in hundreds of illegals during the time you have waisted on this sight. Whatever the reason is that you repeatedly come here day in and day out you are failing miserably.
Huh Ms. Miers isn't on SCOTUS, ted kennedy hates his own education bill, thank God, Bush doesn't listen to armchair generals, and he actually put tariffs on steel, which did abosolutely no good(economically or politically).
Get back to me when your hero pat buchanan is President.
Unless at some point we need to actually ramp for a real war and make ships and tanks, other than that I say go ahead and close all steel plants.
Why not import the entire nations of Guatemala and Honduras here? This would expand our economy in the sense that some economic figures would be instantly larger. This would add the people (12 million) and GDP of these two cesspits to our own GDP. This would be a smart move in your eyes
Pat Buchanan has been on the case of illegal immigration for at least 15 years. He was way ahead of the curve. Darn right he gets credit on this issue
Dane keeps pooping up just like an good OBL Straw man, we keep knocking him/her down.
Nice how you can't refute the message, so you just attack the messenger, like a good little apparachik!
Dane, you are an OBL fool, and a shill for Illegal behaviour that supports Drug Trafficking, Terrorism, Murder, Robbery and Rape.
All for cheap lettuce, clean toilets, and profit over Principles!
LOL, who is attacking the messenger now, especially with the customary over the top hyperbole.
Wow...you must be psychic!
Just like the OTHER apparachiks here, it's Party over Principles...Profit over Principles, and "Cult of Bush" uber alles!
Now where have I said that, I haven't. I'm just not for MI's idea of contracting(i.e a recession) the US economy to solve the illegal immigrant problem.
I'm for a guest worker program which brings some sanity to an immigration problem and which doen't throw a wrench into the modern American economy.
A master of sarcasm, you are not. Oh well I can't help it if you wish that I was silent about my opinions.
Get back to me when you have a bad word about the NEA, who are doing much more damage to the American education system.
Now, we just need to beware the President's bait and switch he's going to try to pull next year. And we need to keep the pressure on.
I am still waiting for your single conversion to appear. The only reason to participate in political debate is to influence others. You are a total failure in that regard and I will remind you of that everyday if need be.
Yeah know you spend an awful lot of time and energy saying I'm a failure, kinda of like the democrats who spend an awful lot of time and energy saying Iraq is a failure.
You are incapable of persuading anyone to your view. You are terribly weak in your arguments. I feel like I should help you explain your position better just for the sake of pity. I feel the same way about the administration half the time. When are you ever going to win a convert? Why do you try? You are so terribly bad at it.
No it is not. There are many areas in this country where a teenager can no longer find a job that pays even a reasonable wage. Believe me, this was very recently for me.
I had an interesting discusion yesterday. A friend of mine made an interesting aurguement that the illegal immigrants were a bigger threat to the long term US nation/economic security then Al Qaeda. His arguement was basically that though the terrorist could sting us they could not really do much major damage. 911 basically distroyed 12 city blocks and killed just under 3000 people. More then that will day this month in traffic accidents. That as bad as 911 was it was a pin prick and illegal immigration is a knive to the throat of the middle class. They raise taxes and lower wages for the middle class. And as we all know it is the middle class and it's consumerism that drives the economy.
Just when I thought you couldn't make more of a fool of yourself, you step up and outdo yourself. You can't begin to argue against Lowry's points with any substance, so you attack the messenger.
What are you saying is a reasonable wage?
When I was a teenager I could easily find a job at minimum wage and I have no doubt that any teenager could walk into any McDonald's and get a job 2 or 3 dollars above minimum.
I agree illegal immigration is a problem, but I'd like to point out that your son's problem is not so much illegal immigration as oppressive government regulations placed on employers. I don't know a teenage kid who's not willing to work for cash with no benefits, just like the Mexicans. However, an employer has much less chance of getting caught when the family, friends, and acquaintances of person being paid has no interest in turning the employer in.
Not that you would turn your son's cash paying employer in, but maybe his teacher or one of his friend's parents would. That's just not going to happen with Manuel with illegal ditch digger.
While there may be a select few jobs that Americans won;t do and illegals will, it is taking its toll on the job market for teenagers and many people trying to put themselves through college. A few years ago I can remember looking for a job after HS, and there was very little out there. Same thing with most of my friends. At the time, however, we did not know why this was.
Actually democrats do that.
Yes, I agree that a teen can get a job at McDonalds, etc., much of the times. But look at this way. How many City McDonalds do you walk into tehse days and find somebody who is not speaking to you in some sort of English jumbled with Spanish. It is my understanding that many of tehse restaurants are far more likely to hire somebody who speaks limited English but fluent Spanish than they are to hire somebody who just speaks English.
Secondly, for a teenager it is extremely difficult these days to find a manual labor job for one or two dollars above minimum, atleast in some parts of this country.
Sorry Dane, the effect to the economy would be minimal.
The National Review reads more like the New York Times every time I read it.
"A Republican close to the White House has told Time how Bush wants to"
This line does not belong in an article writen by any reputible journalist. However, as we say in the Miers nomination debacle, the editors at the National Review appear to be getting their guidelines from the New York Times these days.
An unnamed source, with an unknown relationship to the subject, told a third party something? The only purpose of such garbage is to spread gossip or to try and lend credibility to a story that doesn't have a credible source. It's the kind of writing that belongs in tabloids.
The author should be ashamed for using such techniques, and the editor should be ashamed for letting this be published by the National Review.
As for the content of the article, it's sensationalism that's only likely to make it considerably harder to pass any kind of immigration reform.
Let me make this simple for Mr. Lowery. Our unemployment levels are low.
We currently have a large number of illegal immigrants working in this country in legal and productive industries.
This number of employeed illegal aliens considerably exceeds the number of unemployed workers.
If we manage to accomplish reform in our immigration enforcement, but don't at the same time increase legal immigration, it's going to have a very serious, advarse effect on our economy.
Unless you think that rising inflation while the economy shrinks do to a shortage of labor is a good idea, a comprehensive approach is the only rational approach to immigration.
We MUST address both illegal immigration and legal immigration at the same time.
This is not a simple task, and there are many different special interest groups pulling in different directions.
Making it sound like the president has some devious plan isn't going to help matters. It definately isn't addressing the problems by addressing the facts, it's pulling the typical liberal tactic of emotionalizing the issue.
We need a program that includes an increase of legal immigration as goals in reducing illegal immigration are met. That's going to be difficult because the numbers are all estimations and everyone is going to estimate things differently.
People who keep calling this an amnesty program without offering solutions that address real labor needs are part of the problem.
There is still considerable leeway in how an increase in legal immigration could be handled.
Do we allow people who are in the country illegally to apply? My answer would be a resounding no. Even the suggestion of such would cause a surge in illegal immigration. We have a right and a duty to be selective in who we admit to work in our country.
Bush has remained consistent in his approach to this, his initial program would have allowed illegal immigrants to apply from within the US. However, he has not taken a hard stance on that and I highly doubt he would veto legislation over that. Therefore it's up to congress, since they're the ones that make laws, not the president.
Do we allow people who have been deported to apply for legal immigration?
This one is a bit harder for me. They are criminals, but they are basicly laws that are enforced about as stricty as speeding. They come from countries where law enforcement is arbitrary. It's hard to respect laws that are obviously not enforced.
Because of this I would go with a bit of a comprimise. I'd suggest that illegal aliens have 60 days after the law goes into effect to turn themselves in and be deported. If they do so they would be allowed to apply for the guest worker program. If they are apprehended during that sixty days, but do not fight deportation, they could possibly be treated the same as if they had turned themselves in. They would be deported, but not barred from reentry.
After that 60 days if they are caught in our country illegally, they should be barred from reentering the country for not less than 5 years.
If they committed crimes while they were in our country they should also be barred from entry. If they are unable to support themselves, they should be deported. The federal government should stipulate that illegal aliens or those here on work visas of any kind should not receive benefits from federally funded social programs. They pay their own way while they are here, or they get sent home.
The exception to this is that we should provide needed emergency medical care if they are unable to pay for it. However, if they cannot pay for it they should be deported after the necessary care is provided.
I have heard suggestions that all immigrants should be required to attain some level of health insurance to work in our country, I think that is an exellent idea. It could be provided by the companies that employ them, by thier home country's government, or they could pay for it themselves.
The problem of illegal immigration is not goingt o be solved through rhetoric about amnesty. If you require people to apply from their home countries, how are you offering illegal aliens amnesty? Yet that's exactly how Senator Cornyn's plan was described.
These people are not helping fix this problem. Fixing the problem can only be done by dealing with the facts, not by stirring up emotion with half truths.
So you weren't willing to take a job at McDonald's. When I was 16 I took a busboy job at a chain steakhouse, and probably the most disgusting one I ever had. People are pigs, that's why to this day whenever I'm done with a meal at a restaurant, I make sure to try clean up the table as much as I can, and that includes positioning the plates and utensils, and napkins in a way to make the job easier for the busser.
To be completely honest, I would have rather found a job working with my hands then working at McDonalds. Secondly, I actually do that same thing at restaurants myself, lol.
Republican free traitor open border globalist do so as well. I just got the tax bill from the county. Hospital district taxes went up, lots of illegals go to the county hospitals here in Haris county. Just one example.
From the first day, learned the the two tub method of bussing. One tub for uneaten food and trash(arghh those cracker wrappers were everywhere, especially if there was a baby, and don't get me started how many times I had to clean up baby puke) the other tub for dishes, glasses, and utensils.
Huh still no mention by you of the trial lawyers who are raising health costs on all of us.
We do? That is only your opinion for which you'll find many disagreeing with. The last 40 years have seen us take in over 40 million people, and that's just legally. Even if all immigration were to completely stop tomorrow there are more than enough ample studies which demonstrate the birth rate would continue to increase for the next 50 years.
So then why do we need more legal immigration than the current 1 million annually we already take in? Will our economy collapse without it, will the third world become unstable if we refuse to take in their masses any longer, what is the motivation driving this constant push to raise immigration levels, particularly in DC?
Nice straw man you got there. But the illegals who do not pay the bills (about 1/4 of all patients in the hospital district) for their care are a more pressing problem then any ambulance chaser.
At the the rate Jorger Arbusto is goign he is starting to amke Jimmie Carter look ok.
Back in the 70s Carter proposed building a wall on the southern border and stated correctly that illegals were taking jobs from Americans. I'm afraid on the issue of immigration anyway Bush already makes Jimmy Carter look good.
LOL, who is attacking the messenger now, especially with the customary over the top hyperbole.
OK Dane, lets play!
Given: Illegal Infiltrators cross the border Illegally, regardless of the reason. Choose on...(Y/N)
Since we have evidence of Terrorists crossing the border Illegally, we do have Illegal Infiltrators that are terrorists. Choose one...(Y/N)
We do have evidence of Illegal Infiltrators committing Robbery, Rape, Arson, Murder, and Drug Trafficking and Production. Choose one...(Y/N)
Is illegally entering the United States against the law? Choose one...(Y/N)
Is obtaining fraudulent documents Illegal? Choose one...(Y/N)
Is illegally obtaining employment with fraudulent documents illegal? Choose one...(Y/N)
Is obtaining work illegally without proper Social Security /Green Card ID illegal? Choose one...(Y/N)
Is knowingly hiring an illegal without proper papers/Green Card illegal? Choose one...(Y/N)
Is avoiding income taxes by working "under the table" illegal? Choose one...(Y/N)
Is obtaining Gub'Mint services illegally by presenting fraudulent documentation/ID illegal? Choose one...(Y/N)
Now, please answer these points carefully and accurately.
Oh, and I "attack" you because you are an OBL shill, a disrupter, a proven fool, an apparachik, and you believe Illegal Infiltrators have some excuse/escape clause from the Laws of the United States because you loves you some "cheap lettuce", and finally; you are no Conservative, you fraud!
That is truly a feet.
With some liberties taken, perhaps now it's not a personal attack, bump.