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Peru to Sue Yale to Regain Artifacts
The Ledger ^ | 11/30/05 | RICK VECCHIO/AP

Posted on 12/01/2005 6:41:25 PM PST by wagglebee

LIMA, Peru Peru is preparing a lawsuit against Yale University to retrieve artifacts taken nearly a century ago from the Inca citadel of Machu Picchu, a government official said Wednesday.

Peru has held discussions in recent years with Yale seeking the return of nearly 5,000 artifacts, including ceramics and human bones that explorer Hiram Bingham dug up during three expeditions to Machu Picchu in 1911, 1912 and 1914.

"Yale considers the collection university property, given the amount of time it has been there," said Luis Guillermo Lumbreras, chief of Peru's National Institute of Culture, in an interview with The Associated Press.

"This is something we do not recognize because the pieces were legally granted in a temporary loan. That is the reason it will be necessary to air this in the courts and no longer simply on the level of diplomatic conversations."

Peru's Foreign Ministry was preparing the legal case and would likely present it in Connecticut state court, Lumbreras said. He said it was not clear when the lawsuit would be filed.

Richard Burger, chairman and director of graduate studies at Yale's Council on Archaeological Studies, did not immediately return telephone messages seeking comment.

Lumbreras said former President Augusto B. Leguia gave Bingham "permission to temporarily export the objects for scientific ends," with the agreement that the artifacts would be returned after one year. That later was extended by 18 months.

"Theoretically, they should have been returned after Jan. 27, 1916," Lumbreras said. "The fact is, they weren't returned."

For decades, Peru did not pursue the matter, he said.

"It stayed that way for nearly 100 years," Lumbreras said. "The 100th anniversary of the scientific anniversary of Machu Picchu is coming. We believe it is time to return the collection."

David Bingham, grandson of Hiram Bingham, said he never heard of any promise to return the artifacts and said Yale has been a good caretaker.

"Yale has taken very good care of the stuff and it probably brought more visitors to Peru than almost any other thing because the exhibits at Yale are so famous," he said.

But Bingham said there's no reason Yale and Peru shouldn't be able compromise, assuming the country can guarantee the preservation of the artifacts. He said there are enough artifacts to create displays in both places.

"There's enough interest where you could have a permanent exhibit in Peru, on loan from Yale, but there would be somebody who would be responsible for it," he said. "It seems to me there's certainly a place for that to happen. But it would be a disaster if a lot of stuff got shipped down there and wasn't properly cared for."

The Incas ruled Peru from the 1430s until the arrival of the Spaniards in 1532, constructing incredible stone-block cities and roads and developing a highly organized society that extended from modern-day Colombia to Chile.

The reconstructed ruins at Machu Picchu, located on a craggy mountaintop above a lush valley about 310 miles southeast of Lima, are Peru's top tourist attraction.

Bingham, the first foreigner to reach Machu Picchu, had multiple theories about Machu Picchu: that it was perhaps a religious estate inhabited mostly by women, a last Inca stronghold abandoned as the Spanish invaded or the Incas' city of origin.

Experts now say Bingham was wrong on all counts. Machu Picchu was, in fact, a summer estate for royalty, a sort of Camp David for the Inca ruler Pachacuti, Yale's Burger told AP in 2003. About 600 people, mostly royalty and their servants, are believed to have lived there during the summer.

After his explorations, Bingham turned to politics. He served one day as Connecticut governor in 1925 before resigning to take a seat in Congress.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ggg; godsgravesglyphs; incanartifacts; incas; machupicchu; peru; yaleuniversity
Of course if the US government were to take some ancient artifacts from Iraq for safekeeping, the leftists at Yale would be going crazy.
1 posted on 12/01/2005 6:41:26 PM PST by wagglebee
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To: SunkenCiv

GGG ping!


2 posted on 12/01/2005 6:41:43 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee
Of course if the US government were to take some ancient artifacts from Iraq for safekeeping, the leftists at Yale would be going crazy.

Well, Hillary took half the stuff out of the White House in January '01 for safekeeping.

3 posted on 12/01/2005 6:44:07 PM PST by peyton randolph (Warning! It is illegal to fatwah a camel in all 50 states)
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To: wagglebee
Yale is a liberal, politically corrupt (er, correct) Ivy League school polluted by liberals and Communists (er, socialists) and anti-American democrats.

They would NEVER have taken from Native Americans "anything". Ever.
4 posted on 12/01/2005 6:48:57 PM PST by Robert A. Cook, PE (-I contribute to FR monthly, but ABBCNNBCBS supports Hillary's Secular Sexual Socialism every day.)
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To: wagglebee

already posted:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1532386/posts


5 posted on 12/01/2005 6:52:09 PM PST by xcamel (a system poltergeist stole it.)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

Yes, but I doubt Yale sees it as stealing from Native Americans, but rather as depriving the evil imperialist Spaniard overlords of their misbegotten spoils of rape and pillage.


6 posted on 12/01/2005 6:52:53 PM PST by AntiGuv ()
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To: wagglebee
NO Artifacts For OIL !!!!!!!
7 posted on 12/01/2005 6:53:39 PM PST by cmsgop ( Bill Clinton's License Plate..... "Herpes 1")
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To: xcamel

The search missed it, sorry.


8 posted on 12/01/2005 6:53:53 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee

Who did the hard work or research and excavation? The Americans from Yale University did. Peru was too poor and disinterested to bother.


9 posted on 12/01/2005 6:55:08 PM PST by dennisw (You shouldn't let other people get your kicks for you - Bob Dylan)
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To: peyton randolph

Naaa, she just stole it.


10 posted on 12/01/2005 7:06:18 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: wagglebee

Yale is probably going to bill Peru for "storage" fees.


11 posted on 12/01/2005 7:19:42 PM PST by fat city ("The nation that controls magnetism controls the world.")
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To: dennisw

"Who did the hard work or research and excavation? The Americans from Yale University did. Peru was too poor and disinterested to bother."

...So what, does it gives you the title to keep it. How about some honor and respect for history. So the poor people doesn't deserve it ah?

Give me a brake and grow up.


12 posted on 12/01/2005 9:11:15 PM PST by Lily4Jesus ( Jesus Saves)
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To: wagglebee; blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; StayAt HomeMother; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; asp1; ...
Thanks waggs. Is this the first such topic? Maybe I just saw it in the actives and didn't visit it earlier today, or rather, yesterday.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

13 posted on 12/01/2005 10:17:51 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated my FR profile on Wednesday, November 2, 2005.)
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To: dennisw

Ah, I see. No nation has sovereignty over its own history, property, or anything else except these United States. Especially if another nation does not have the ability to fund research of its own history at the time? I do so love ardent nationalism.


14 posted on 12/01/2005 10:25:34 PM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: peyton randolph
Well, Hillary took half the stuff out of the White House in January '01 for safekeeping.

People around here carp and carp about Alberto Gonzales, but who do they think got that stuff back?

15 posted on 12/01/2005 10:28:34 PM PST by Howlin ("Victory is not a strategy. " ``Jack Murtha 11/18/05)
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To: Howlin
People around here carp and carp about Alberto Gonzales, but who do they think got that stuff back?

Did he? That is nice to know. I thought she kept it all to decorate the NY home.

16 posted on 12/01/2005 10:39:56 PM PST by peyton randolph (Warning! It is illegal to fatwah a camel in all 50 states)
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To: peyton randolph

He sure did!


17 posted on 12/01/2005 10:44:00 PM PST by Howlin ("Victory is not a strategy. " ``Jack Murtha 11/18/05)
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To: billbears

I think there are plenty of other Inca ruins for Peru to dig up and stop trying to get a freebie off of Yale. My guess would be with modern overflights with radar and infrared cameras they can find more than they can ever properly excavate. I see Yankee bashing going on


18 posted on 12/02/2005 4:58:45 AM PST by dennisw (You shouldn't let other people get your kicks for you - Bob Dylan)
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To: dennisw
I think there are plenty of other Inca ruins for Peru to dig up and stop trying to get a freebie off of Yale.

Well except for the fact that the artifacts Yale currently has belong to the Peruvians and their history. I'm sure there are quite a few others out there as well. There's a reason there are international laws in existence outlining the behavior of researchers from taking artifacts out of a country. To prevent this very thing from continually happening.

Of course I'm sure you would be just as excited if an team of 'foreigners' came here and found artifacts. You'd have no problem with them just taking it out of the country would you?I see Yankee bashing going on

LOL!!! A nation standing up for its national sovereignty and retaining its history is yankee bashing. Right....

19 posted on 12/02/2005 6:01:31 AM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: billbears

Sure took the Peru-vians a long time to complain. But in this day where all things 3rd world are good and romanticized they get more traction. Can you imagine how chaotic Peru was when Yale spent money and effort to recover these treasures? They would have just sat there if these "evil Anglo white men" had not mounted their expeditions.

This is just the latest iteration of the centuries old Anglo-Spain conflict


20 posted on 12/02/2005 6:08:09 AM PST by dennisw (You shouldn't let other people get your kicks for you - Bob Dylan)
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To: Howlin

I didn't know that. Many thanks for letting us know! I thought they got away with the silver, our inauguration celebration notwithstanding.


21 posted on 12/02/2005 6:10:18 AM PST by twigs
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To: Lily4Jesus
Finders, Keepers, dude. If I find a doubloon (or a heap of 'em), the Spanish government has no claim on my find 'cause it came from a wrecked galleon.

Dunno about the artifacts, but if Peru didn't make a deal to assert ownership or arrange for their return when they were discovered, they should be surely outta luck.

As for Iraq, it would be spoils of war. We shoulda moved all the worthwhile stuff out of Iraqi National Museum to the Smithsonian.
22 posted on 12/02/2005 6:17:03 AM PST by Little Ray (I'm a reactionary, hirsute, gun-owning, knuckle dragging, Christian Neanderthal and proud of it!)
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To: dennisw
Sure took the Peru-vians a long time to complain.

So complaints have a statute of limitations?

But in this day where all things 3rd world are good and romanticized they get more traction.

Ah, so actually accepting that 3rd world nations have rights of sovereignty as the rest of the world is romanticizing things? Why can't they be good little vassal states like they should be!! That about it?

Can you imagine how chaotic Peru was when Yale spent money and effort to recover these treasures?

That doesn't change the issue that those treasures belong to the Peruvian government and their citizenry does it? What have Egypt and other older civilizations done to recover their artifacts. Should Peru not have the same right to do the same thing?

They would have just sat there if these "evil Anglo white men" had not mounted their expeditions.

I don't care if the researchers were black, green, purple, or yellow. It doesn't change the issue that these independent researchers violated the sovereignty of Peru. However I'm beginning to believe to some the color of the researchers, along with nationalistic tripe, is of a concern.

This is just the latest iteration of the centuries old Anglo-Spain conflict

No, this is the latest iteration of another nation state, and its citizenry apparently, believing that it has a greater right to sovereignty than another nation state.

So by dennisw's argument, a researcher can enter our borders, root around in the mud, find perhaps one of the greatest discoveries known to man (who knows?), take it home to his nation's museum without as much as a by your leave, and we would have no recourse. Well that is I suppose as long as he was an 'evil Anglo white man' and not of Spanish ancestry? And our researchers, have the right to go root around in other people's mud (third world nations only please), take what they want, and just because it's our researchers they can bring it back to our museums with no recourse for the nation it came from.

23 posted on 12/02/2005 6:30:11 AM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: Howlin
People around here carp and carp about Alberto Gonzales, but who do they think got that stuff back?

I'll take my 2nd Amendment rights over missing crap from the White House any day.

24 posted on 12/02/2005 11:04:42 AM PST by jmc813 (Compassionate Conservatism is Gay)
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