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THE LINE OF FIRE:Some citizens fear for safety if courts uphold S.F.'s voter-approved ban on handgun
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 12/5/5 | Cecilia M. Vega

Posted on 12/05/2005 7:38:31 AM PST by SmithL

For a long time, Margaret Hurst lived in fear.

Gangs control turf just a few blocks from her Mission District apartment in San Francisco, and she's sure a neighbor across the street deals drugs. Her building was broken into four times in one year. She saw teenagers on her street display a gun. And while she was stopped at a red light one day, a man tried to punch in her car window in a case of road rage.

So she bought a handgun. Now Hurst is no longer scared.

"I'll tell you one thing. If I'm going down, I'm taking them with me," said 49-year-old Hurst, who is about as un-Charlton Heston as any woman with a British accent, braided bun and long flowing skirt could be.

After a heated campaign brought the national debate over gun control to San Francisco, the city's famously liberal voters passed a law last month banning the sale, manufacture and distribution of firearms and ammunition within city limits. The measure, which takes effect Jan. 1, also makes it illegal for residents to possess handguns.

And as that date approaches, handgun owners like Hurst are becoming increasingly fearful of the consequences.

"We're exactly the kind of people that should have weapons. We're vulnerable," Hurst said during a recent conversation in her cozy apartment, where she lives with her partner and their two cats. "The guns are not going away unless they absolutely have to."

When 58 percent of the city's voters approved the handgun ban, San Francisco joined only two other cities in the nation with similar laws, Chicago and Washington, D.C.

The day after the election, the National Rifle Association and other gun advocates filed a lawsuit challenging the ban, saying it oversteps local government authority and intrudes into an area regulated by

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: banglist; yougogirl

Margaret Hurst engages in target practice with a handgun at Bullseye shooting range in San Rafael.
1 posted on 12/05/2005 7:38:34 AM PST by SmithL
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To: SmithL

San Francisco isn't really in the United States anyways.


2 posted on 12/05/2005 7:39:43 AM PST by Lazamataz (Proudly Lying About My Sign-Up Date Since 1998)
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To: SmithL
"I'll tell you one thing. If I'm going down, I'm taking them with me,"

Reminds me of what Napoleon said about Queen Louise of Prussia - that she was the only "real man" in Prussia.

This lady may be the only "real man" in San Francisco.

3 posted on 12/05/2005 7:43:24 AM PST by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: SmithL

"San Francisco joined only two other cities in the nation with similar laws, Chicago and Washington, D.C."

Ahh, those crime-free havens of rainbows and sunshine!


4 posted on 12/05/2005 7:46:57 AM PST by L98Fiero
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To: SmithL

Won't San Fran be suprised when crime with guns does not go down....


5 posted on 12/05/2005 7:55:06 AM PST by Kimmers
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To: SmithL
Margaret Hurst engages in target practice

Wow, her weak hand thumb is in a bad position, and as a result her grip is way too low on the frame. Fortunately the Ruger has a high backstrap or she would be seeking medical aid for a sliced thumb!

Superb photographic evidence that seeking competent instruction is critical to learning the proper operation of firearms.

6 posted on 12/05/2005 8:06:46 AM PST by xsrdx (Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas)
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To: Kimmers
Won't San Fran be suprised when crime with guns does not go down....

Not at all, reducing crime was never the point.

It's about control, and making political statements. Reality is not part of the calculation.

7 posted on 12/05/2005 8:10:06 AM PST by xsrdx (Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas)
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To: Joe Brower

Ping!


8 posted on 12/05/2005 8:11:06 AM PST by xsrdx (Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas)
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To: xsrdx

Thank you for the clarification, you are so right.


9 posted on 12/05/2005 8:19:40 AM PST by Kimmers
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To: xsrdx

I suspect that most of the competent firearms safety instructors have long since fled California as the legislature and cities have steadily tightened the screws on lawful gun ownership.


10 posted on 12/05/2005 9:01:39 AM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: mvpel

Yep, most of them probably have fled. Same with NY and a few other commie north east states...

There comes a point when ya have to say, 'Honey, it time to move out of the enclave of California or Northeast and migrate to the United States".


11 posted on 12/05/2005 9:12:36 AM PST by BigTom85 (Proud Gun Owner and Member of NRA)
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To: xsrdx

She's going to try somebody else's pistol at the range, and get a nasty cut.


12 posted on 12/05/2005 9:13:24 AM PST by Travis McGee
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To: AAABEST; wku man; SLB; Travis McGee; Squantos; Shooter 2.5; The Old Hoosier; xrp; freedomlover; ...
A good story to start your week off...

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

13 posted on 12/05/2005 9:30:26 AM PST by Joe Brower (The Constitution defines Conservatism. *NRA*)
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To: SmithL
"I will let go of my handgun," Hurst said, "and buy another rifle."

A silver lining?

14 posted on 12/05/2005 9:36:07 AM PST by xsrdx (Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas)
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To: BigTom85
"There comes a point when ya have to say, 'Honey, it time to move out of the enclave of California or Northeast and migrate to the United States'."

I just can't understand what is taking most people so darned long. I left Cali in 1973. It was pretty obvious where the place was going that far back.
15 posted on 12/05/2005 9:47:56 AM PST by Old Student (WRM, MSgt, USAF(Ret.))
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To: BenLurkin
This lady may be the only "real man" in San Francisco.

That's a dangerous statement on so many levels....

16 posted on 12/05/2005 9:50:48 AM PST by Grut
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To: SmithL
After a heated campaign brought the national debate over gun control to San Francisco, the city's famously liberal voters passed a law last month banning the sale, manufacture and distribution of firearms and ammunition within city limits

Those that want to take away the means to protect myself and my family are far more dangerous to my security than a firearm in the hands of responsible law abiding people ever would be.

17 posted on 12/05/2005 9:57:45 AM PST by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: 2nd amendment mama; basil; songbird51; B4Ranch; Ronaldus Magnus; Brad's Gramma; ...

18 posted on 12/05/2005 9:58:08 AM PST by Ladysmith ((NRA, SAS) Support Zien's PPA/CCW bill in Wisconsin.)
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To: SmithL

"Gangs control turf just a few blocks from her Mission District apartment in San Francisco"

I'm leaning towards Sierra 168 gr. HPBT in .308 as a possible solution to this infestation. But that's just me, please feel free to use a caliber of your choosing.


19 posted on 12/05/2005 9:59:59 AM PST by dljordan
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To: xsrdx

I noticed her grip immediately. I emailed the author of this piece and asked her to have Ms. Hurst get some additional training to adjust her grip.


20 posted on 12/05/2005 10:38:04 AM PST by gieriscm
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To: BenLurkin

There is a lot of confusion about what is a man and what is a woman in San Francisco.


21 posted on 12/05/2005 10:51:14 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: xsrdx

Exactly. Liberal laws are intended to make the people passing them feel good rather than to actually have any positive effect.


22 posted on 12/05/2005 10:53:43 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: xsrdx
If you can afford one of these expensive courses then that is fine but you do not have to go through one to be competent and safe with a handgun.

A family member or friend who is knowledgeable can teach someone the basics of the individual gun they have.

.It's not like they are going to go out in the streets as professionals do,kick down doors and fight crime or fight gun battles. Most simply just want to be able to protect themselves in their home.

I do not think it ought to be required to take a firearms course to own a weapon.

There are people from from their teens through their eighties who have and do defend themselves and their families effectively on a daily basis if you read some of the self defense news articles available.

While professional instruction is a plus and is desired if it can be afforded it should not stop someone from being able to defend themselves.

As for the lady in the photograph she is at least doing one of the most important and most often neglected things that is required to be competent with a handgun and that is practice.

Yes her thumb from the photograph [though they can be deceiving at times] is in a bad position. however we do not know it is her weak hand as I look I think what I see which makes it look odd is the grip of a southpaw or left-handed person. Two members of my family are left-handed and if this is the case at least it explains the left thumb on top.

We also do not know at what stage this person is in with her association with firearms and she may be firing for the first time and in the presence of someone who is giving her instruction.

I do not want the elderly who are one of the high risk groups to be targeted by criminals or women to think that learning to defend yourself requires some big expensive training course to be able to defend yourself with a handgun nor should they be required to complete some rigorous course that may be beyond their physical ability to do so.

. If we are not careful we will regulate the ones who need it the most out of the right and ability to defend themselves ie: the frail, the elderly, women, and the handicapped.

23 posted on 12/05/2005 10:54:01 AM PST by mississippi red-neck (You will never win the war on terrorism by fighting it in Iraq and funding it in the West Bank.)
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To: dljordan
I caught word that if you've got all your Class III paperwork in order, that the folks over at Tromix can whip you up a .458 SOCOM AR knockoff with an integral suppressor. You wouldn't want to annoy your neighbors with all those loud reports now would you?
24 posted on 12/05/2005 11:37:16 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. -El Neil)
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To: Ladysmith

The Second Amendment - Commentaries
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1016481/posts


25 posted on 12/05/2005 12:03:16 PM PST by PsyOp (Men easily believe what they want to. Caesar, De Bello Gallico, III, 18.)
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To: Joe Brower

Thanks for the ping.


26 posted on 12/05/2005 1:48:22 PM PST by Badray
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To: SmithL

The second silver lining to this story (the first being that Hurst may buy a rifle to replace the handgun stolen by the city) is that Hurst and her girlfriend may finally figure out that liberals are willing to sacrafice them (two people who I bet vote a straight liberal ticket and think conservatives are gay bashing neocons) on the alter of political correctness.

These two ladies may be moving toward the libertarian camp.


27 posted on 12/05/2005 4:47:02 PM PST by ibbryn (this tag intentionally left blank)
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To: ibbryn
Hurst and her girlfriend may finally figure out that liberals are willing to sacrifice them (two people who I bet vote a straight liberal ticket and think conservatives are gay bashing neocons) on the alter of political correctness.

I was waiting for someone to propose this epiphany, but I wonder, as Hurst mentions that she stores her firearm and ammunition separately. It appears she is of the understanding that San Fransicko criminals honor time outs to load.

28 posted on 12/05/2005 5:55:28 PM PST by Navy Patriot (I was so anxious to unload my gun that I used the burglar as a bullet trap.)
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To: mississippi red-neck

Re: #23, all excellent points, I have great suspicions that required training is really about incremental discouragement rather than safety.


29 posted on 12/05/2005 6:00:12 PM PST by Navy Patriot (I was so anxious to unload my gun that I used the burglar as a bullet trap.)
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To: SmithL
When 58 percent of the city's voters approved the handgun ban, San Francisco joined only two other cities in the nation with similar laws, Chicago and Washington, D.C.

Looks like someone forgot about NYC

30 posted on 12/05/2005 6:33:41 PM PST by Centurion2000 ((Aubrey, Tx) --- America, we get the best government corporations can buy.)
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To: Navy Patriot

"as Hurst mentions that she stores her firearm and ammunition separately."

Handgun is in the right pocket, magazine in the left or handgun in the holster, magazines in the counter balancing ammo pouch.


31 posted on 12/06/2005 9:55:25 AM PST by B4Ranch (No expiration date is on the Oath to protect America from all enemies, foreign and domestic.)
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To: xsrdx
One of the best home defense systems: Wilson Combat Remington 870 (and others):


32 posted on 12/06/2005 1:43:16 PM PST by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

The effect desired by liberal morons is a change from a Constitutional Republic to a Marxist Community-based Utopia. They need to disarm the sheep first.


33 posted on 12/06/2005 1:45:00 PM PST by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: Dead Corpse
...the folks over at Tromix can whip you up a .458 SOCOM AR knockoff with an integral suppressor.

Oh, that's just ridiculous. Way overkill. Nobody would ever...uh...

How much are they going for?

34 posted on 12/06/2005 1:48:36 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Billthedrill
No idea. Their baseline models are all right aournd a Grand. For a special toy like this one probably an extra thousand or two. Send 'em an e-mail and ask. Assuming you can get all the BATFag forms in order, they hsould be able to whip you up one.

I'm still planning on their .50 AE upper for a future project. Next upgrade for the Mistress is converting her over to an M-4gery "Space Gun".

35 posted on 12/06/2005 1:52:47 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. -El Neil)
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To: Dead Corpse

I checked the site. $1650 for a semiauto. 18 rounds of .458? I figure I'd get the same effect by rolling my truck over my shoulder about ten times. But it'd sure take out those squirrels...


36 posted on 12/06/2005 2:18:31 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Billthedrill
Hehhe... Yeah... expect some extra for the integral Can. Fill out a Form 4 and hope the ATF agent working your paperwork is having a good year.

Cans aren't illegal, in some States, just darn hard to get due to paperwork from the Feds.

37 posted on 12/06/2005 2:23:27 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. -El Neil)
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To: SmithL
Who gave Mr. Daly and his chums on the SF Board of Stupidvisors the moral or legal authority to deny law abiding citizens the means of self defense? He presumes too much.

Since Ms. Hurst knows about the drug dealers living across the street from her apartment, I assume that SF PD also knows; what the hell is Mr. Daly doing about that?

38 posted on 12/06/2005 2:44:33 PM PST by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: BigTom85

Sadly lots of libs have left San Fran and Kalifornia for surrounding states so they are all getting more liberal. Washington just passed a Kali style anti-smoking law that is the most strict in the nation. Oregon is far gone, though they haven't attacked gun ownership yet. I feel it is only a matter of time in both states. Because SOCIALISM is the new norm in the USA, along with BUSYBODY BIG MOMism I'm not sure there is really anywhere left to go.


39 posted on 12/06/2005 8:13:34 PM PST by Jack Black
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To: 45Auto
The effect desired by liberal morons is a change from a Constitutional Republic to a Marxist Community-based Utopia. They need to disarm the sheep first.

I think they have it. Obviously the Constitutional Republic is hurting big time. Everything from the Fed to agricultural subsidies, to welfare, to social security, to medicare, to NPR, etc, etc.

As I said elsewhere FDR won. We're a post-Constitutional mobocracy now.

40 posted on 12/06/2005 8:18:01 PM PST by Jack Black
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To: mississippi red-neck; Navy Patriot
If you can afford one of these expensive courses then that is fine but you do not have to go through one to be competent and safe with a handgun.

The NRA offers outstanding basic firearms instruction for the cost of a cheeseburger and a movie. I'm not advocating that every new shooter attend a course at Gunsite.

IF a new shooter has access to a friend or relative that is competent in firearms handling, super - many people have nowhere to turn except the guy who sold them the gun, or some dude at the range - there is no guarantee that either will provide adequate instruction.

Training lends confidence, and teaches the basics of what it means to shoot well - providing a foundation for future learning, in the classroom or at the range. It's certainly possible to self-teach, but for those who don't know where to start adequate training is essential.

Firearms training is not simply about "certification" to satisfy right to carry critics, it's about individuals seeking competent instruction in the use of a complex and unforgiving tool.

41 posted on 12/07/2005 2:29:28 PM PST by xsrdx (Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas)
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To: xsrdx
Re: #41,

Your points are excellent, and I fully support firearms training in the variety of ways you mentioned, and have participated in several of them myself. A competent and trained pro-gun person like yourself would both train and instruct to produce a safe and competent trainee.

I am concerned about the disingenuous anti-gun activist. With him it's about control not safety, and he will attempt to get control of the training for the very purpose of preventing your type of individual from doing the training. The approved trainers will be so expensive and strict that only politicians and their large contributors will be able to pass the required training course. Do you really think that Diane Feinstein is more proficient with a handgun than you or me, or is she more proficient at getting the permit to own and carry in San Fransicko?

42 posted on 12/08/2005 11:45:49 AM PST by Navy Patriot (Please wait a moment while I load.)
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To: B4Ranch
Handgun is in the right pocket, magazine in the left

I was concerned that Hurst needed to know the pros and cons of the various ways you "store" a firearm that is designated for personal defense. Obviously you are aware of those various ways. More power to you.

43 posted on 12/08/2005 11:55:51 AM PST by Navy Patriot (Please wait a moment while I load.)
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