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Giuliani in '08 might be an uphill battle against McCain
New York Newsday ^ | December 10 2005 | GLENN THRUSH

Posted on 12/10/2005 9:06:19 PM PST by jmc1969

WASHINGTON -- Rudy Giuliani and John McCain are the top-polling Republican rivals for the White House in 2008, but the two dinner buddies avoid talking about that topic when sharing tortellini and bresaola at Giuliani's favorite Manhattan bistros.

Their latest get-together took place on Nov. 1 at Elio's, an Upper East Side eatery known for its $30 veal chops. They shared a table with McCain confidante Mark Salter, Giuliani's wife Judith and his aide-de-camp Tony Carbonetti. McCain and Giuliani reportedly chatted about the food, sports and Iraq -- everything but 2008.

The same can't be said for the Arizona senator's operatives, who are girding for a clash between the two titans even though Giuliani could be a year away from making a decision. Some even predict the Straight Talk Express will roll over America's Mayor if it comes down to McCain vs. Giuliani.

"I think Rudy would make an attractive secretary of state or secretary of defense in a McCain administration," Marshall Wittmann, a former McCain aide who is still close to the senator.

"In my humble opinion, Rudy wouldn't get out of the gate," said longtime McCain strategist John Dennehy, who helped engineer the Arizona senator's victorious 2000 primary in New Hampshire.

(Excerpt) Read more at nynewsday.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2008; defeatism; giuliani2008; giussolini; gopprimary; guiliani; mccain; mccain2008; nuclearoption; rino
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To: lowbridge

I agree 100%. I will not be happy with either of them.

However, if the choice is between the two, I would take Rudy any day. McCain has proven himself to be a selfish self promoter and a "gone with the wind" politician.


51 posted on 12/10/2005 10:18:52 PM PST by indianrightwinger
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To: conservativefromGa

Romney will be stronger than even Rudy.


52 posted on 12/10/2005 10:21:18 PM PST by indianrightwinger
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To: Richard Kimball

If 15% of the GOP won't vote for a pro abort candidate, that's about 5% of the voters. Can a guy with Rudy's stature make up that slack among the general population.

Yes, of course he could.

If Rudy gets the nomination and wins the general election, the pro life movement's leadership and rank and file need to seriously rethink things. Checking out of the political process advances no legitimate, meaningful goal.

The sad fact is, and I have mentioned this on FR many times, is that the pro life movement is a mess with very little to show for its work since 1973. They have lost ground and have been beaten back so far that they can't even get the california proposition for parental notification for minors seeking abortions passed.

As I have said many times on FR, the pro life leadership is stuck on stupid: they insist on fighting the 1973 abortion battle that they lost. They have been refighting that battle and losing ever since, unable to cope with the fact that most Americans are against abortion, but could imagine a circumstance where even they might advocate one.

The USA has no pro life majority. It's a mildly pro choice consensus. Sad but true. Lets get to work within that framework.


53 posted on 12/10/2005 10:21:48 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: nopardons

bttt!


54 posted on 12/10/2005 10:24:03 PM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: Let's Roll

Well, the reason the MSM promotes McCain is to hurt bush. When time comes, they will of course promote the Democrat nominee. Even McCain won't get the MSM love.


55 posted on 12/10/2005 10:24:15 PM PST by indianrightwinger
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To: toddrundgrenisgod


I have NO idea.


56 posted on 12/10/2005 10:24:44 PM PST by onyx ((Vicksburg, MS) North is a direction. South is a way of life.)
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To: Let's Roll

Well, the reason the MSM promotes McCain is to hurt bush. When time comes, they will of course promote the Democrat nominee. Even McCain won't get the MSM love.


57 posted on 12/10/2005 10:25:02 PM PST by indianrightwinger
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To: lowbridge
The media and political insiders are absolutely convinced McCain will be the next nominee.

That is because all of them live in states where McCain could win the Republican primary.

So, the guy probably could get 25% of the delegates.

The guy I want, Haley Barbour, is not even on their radar screen.
58 posted on 12/10/2005 10:27:50 PM PST by cgbg (MSM and Democratic treason--fifty years and counting...)
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To: Dolphy

Same here, Rudy WAY over McCain.

I'll never forget when Rudy wouldn't allow Arafat to come to some affair in Manhattan.

And when he returned the 10 million check of some Arab guy after 9/11.


59 posted on 12/10/2005 10:29:59 PM PST by Collier
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To: Calpernia

:-)


60 posted on 12/10/2005 10:30:26 PM PST by nopardons
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To: cgbg

Great choice! I too would like to see Haley run.


61 posted on 12/10/2005 10:31:44 PM PST by nopardons
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To: cgbg

Haley Barbour is definitely the best man, but the best man doesn't always win. We still need him here in MS, but I'd certainly support him, should he decide to seek the nomination.


62 posted on 12/10/2005 10:31:58 PM PST by onyx ((Vicksburg, MS) North is a direction. South is a way of life.)
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To: Calpernia

I'm aware of the negative side of McCain and I'm still upset over how the media focused on him when he was criticizing Bush. I just think that we also have to look at the conservative issues that he has compared to other candidates. He's a free-trader too...voted against the tariffs and in favor of all the trade deals.
Also, assuming the war continues, they certainly won't be able to call McCain a "chickenhawk".

I admire Giuliani, but I don't trust him to uphold gun rights and choose conservative judges.


63 posted on 12/10/2005 10:32:42 PM PST by Susannah (If you're from California, aren't you glad your state did NOT help Carter to the White House?)
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To: Collier

McCain is Hitlery's Ross Perot against Guiliani.


64 posted on 12/10/2005 10:34:33 PM PST by JoeSixPack1
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To: bill1952

Rudy never ran against Hillary. I think he would have beat her if he did.


65 posted on 12/10/2005 10:34:55 PM PST by Collier
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To: Susannah

>>>>I'm aware of the negative side of McCain and I'm still upset over how the media focused on him when he was criticizing Bush. I just think that we also have to look at the conservative issues that he has compared to other candidates.

Negative side? Conservative issues? We are talking death of our MIL personnel. How do you call that negative and look for a conservative view in DEATH????


66 posted on 12/10/2005 10:38:08 PM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: Susannah
McCain has been saying a lot of the right things lately--everywhere, from sea to shining sea, in front of every camera that he can find.....but, he cannot be trusted, and trust is the most important thing in a Presidential candidate.

McCain is blind ambition, supporting the pet causes of the media.

His campaign finance "reform" bill trashed the first amendment and reformed nothing as campaigns easily circumvented its stupid provisions.

This legislation was so bad that no person who respected the liberties of the American people could have supported it, much less proposed it.

McCain's current pro-Iraq speechmaking is imho a calculated appeal to the Republican base.

He can't earn my trust--he has lost it for this lifetime.
67 posted on 12/10/2005 10:41:33 PM PST by cgbg (MSM and Democratic treason--fifty years and counting...)
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To: bybybill

BTTT


68 posted on 12/10/2005 10:44:45 PM PST by 185JHP ( "The thing thou purposest shall come to pass: And over all thy ways the light shall shine.")
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To: Popman

"In a bid to pick up President George W. Bush supporters, McCain's backers have been casting him as the president's conservative heir-apparent in key primary states like Michigan, New Hampshire and South Carolina, where the senator suffered his most bitter primary defeat."

Something tells me both these men will have alot of trouble down here in South Carolina, God willing.


69 posted on 12/10/2005 10:47:50 PM PST by SC33
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To: jmc1969
I would never vote for McCain. I used to think "anything but Hillary", but at this point, I wouldn't care either way if it was Hillary v McCrazy.

OTOH, I will knock on doors to get people to vote for Rudy. I worked in NYC before he was Mayor, and after. THE MAN CAN LEAD. I don't agree with all his positions, but I completely trust him to kick the tar out of terrorists, which is the A-1 priority.

McCrazy is far too unstable to be President. And he does not inspire any confidence that he will vigorously prosecute the war. He says one thing, then undermines the troops and our efforts. Plus, he hates the first amendment.

I despise McCain.
70 posted on 12/10/2005 10:58:30 PM PST by motzman (It's cold outside, and the gloves are off!)
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To: motzman

Oh man, you must be reading my mind. No way Insane McCain is getting my vote. He'll probably end up as Hillary's running mate anyway.

I'll go out on a limb here, but I'm betting that Gov. Huckabee is going to throw his hat in the rring in 2008.


71 posted on 12/10/2005 11:05:16 PM PST by Left2Right ("Democracy isn't perfect, but other governments are so much worse")
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To: jmc1969

Title: Guiliani 08 might be an uphill battle against McCain

Article text: Last month, a nationwide Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll showed Giuliani beating McCain, 34 percent to 31 percent, in the GOP primary. And 20 percent of Republicans polled said they wouldn't vote for the senator under any circumstances, with only 8 percent of voters expressing similar distaste for Giuliani.

Wow. That is what you call one uphill battle for Rudy (not to be taken as an endorsement by me).

Meanwhile, reliable sources tell me that more than 90% of the pajama people reported that they would not vote for McCain under any circumstances. Not today, nor tomorrow, not ever.

85% said they sometimes wished he would join another party ...


72 posted on 12/10/2005 11:10:46 PM PST by freespirited
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To: onyx

Watch out for Sen. Allen on VA!!!!


73 posted on 12/10/2005 11:14:41 PM PST by Bombard
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To: section9
Neither of these guys can get past the Base.

And nobody in the GOP believes that! Boy, are they in for a surprise.

74 posted on 12/10/2005 11:17:17 PM PST by Howlin
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To: Left2Right
Oh man, you must be reading my mind

Not really reading your mind, but here's an actual picture of me while freeping



I know, I know, I need a haircut.

And a manicure...
75 posted on 12/10/2005 11:17:31 PM PST by motzman (It's cold outside, and the gloves are off!)
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To: jmc1969
Glenn Thrush?

Oral thrush is a disorder caused by infection of the mouth with the fungus (yeast) Candida albicans.

76 posted on 12/10/2005 11:19:01 PM PST by Petronski (I love Cyborg!)
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To: motzman

I hear, I obey....


77 posted on 12/10/2005 11:27:04 PM PST by Left2Right ("Democracy isn't perfect, but other governments are so much worse")
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To: Susannah
That seems strange that he would support a Senator who is 100% pro-life and standing up for gun rights

McCain went from state to state after the school shooting at Columbine campaigning for passage of more gun control laws in those states. He also crafted the unconstitutional CFR law which has severely diminished the influence of pro-gun orgs like NRA and GOA on Capitol Hill.

I haven't heard him say anything regarding the abortion issue, but I don't trust him to stand strong for the sanctity of human life on religious or moral principle the way Bush has throughout his time in office.

As for Rudy, no way Jose. AFAIC Rudy is totally disqualified for any high office because of his position on both human life and 2nd Amendment issues.

78 posted on 12/10/2005 11:28:41 PM PST by epow ("Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people" Prov. 14:34)
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To: jmc1969
Giuliani: Gun grabbing, gay-loving, pro-abort, pro-spending, corrupt associations. Loved by the liberal media due to the above positions. OVERRATED due to September 11th.

McCain: Good on pork barrel spending, pro-life, usually good on R2KBA issues. Nevertheless, has a tendency to flip flop and grandstand if it gets him good press.

I really hope that their are more alternatives. If it came down to McCain and Giussolini, I would hold my nose and vote McCain.

79 posted on 12/10/2005 11:32:52 PM PST by Clemenza (Smartest words ever written by a Communist: "Show me a way to the next Whiskey Bar")
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To: freespirited

That's because few people, even Republicans, really know about Rudy's stance on important national issue. They only drank the media Kool Aid on Giuliani because of 9/11.


80 posted on 12/10/2005 11:34:28 PM PST by Clemenza (Smartest words ever written by a Communist: "Show me a way to the next Whiskey Bar")
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To: jmc1969

A McCain administration; nearly a reason to vote shrillary. God preserve us either way.


81 posted on 12/11/2005 12:05:50 AM PST by Lion Den Dan
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To: Clemenza

McCain has no use for the 1st Amendment........he's nothing in my book, just for that.


82 posted on 12/11/2005 12:06:19 AM PST by Gabz
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To: epow

Here's some of the ratings conservative organizations gave McCain:

Fall 2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Conservative Index - The John Birch Society 90 percent in Fall 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Eagle Forum 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Family Research Council 67 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 83 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 72 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Republican Liberty Caucus 77 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Christian Action Network 79 percent during their legislative career up until 2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Concerned Women for America 100 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 On the votes that the Campaign for Working Families considered to be the most important in 2003-2004, Senator McCain voted their preferred position 84 percent of the time.

(more McCain ratings available at:
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=S0061103&type=category&category=Conservative


83 posted on 12/11/2005 12:45:26 AM PST by Susannah (If you're from California, aren't you glad your state did NOT help Carter to the White House?)
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To: indianrightwinger

I would be much more happy with a Lieberman democrat than either one of these (r)inos


84 posted on 12/11/2005 1:34:12 AM PST by Seven Minute Maniac
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To: Clemenza
That's because few people, even Republicans, really know about Rudy's stance on important national issue. They only drank the media Kool Aid on Giuliani because of 9/11.

I think there is something about him. . . the charisma thing. Not unlike the Kennedys for lack of a better analogy. The standing that a senator like Ted Kennedy has with voters is far out of proportion to the respect that people have for the positions he takes on the issues. This is not to say that I equate Guiliani with Kennedy. I give Rudy a lot more credit than that.

Of course I'd much prefer George Allen as nominee and Rudy as his VP. But if it comes down to Guiliani or McCain, it's going to be the former for me. I'm not worried that Rudy has a screw loose.

85 posted on 12/11/2005 2:14:07 AM PST by freespirited
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To: Let's Roll
It will be the McCaine Mutiny. The press has coddled him for years -

And , if McCain can fool enough of the voters long enough to capture the nomination, the press will turn on him faster than the tiger on Sigfried and Roy.

But the result will be far more nasty.

86 posted on 12/11/2005 3:12:56 AM PST by woofer (The faulty interface lies between the chair and the keyboard.)
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To: freespirited
McCain is a mental case.

If George Allen is the nominee we will be looking at President Hillary Clinton.

Giuliani is the only one that can beat her and he will be the nominee.

He will run with Rice.

87 posted on 12/11/2005 3:18:57 AM PST by Rome2000 (Peace is not an option)
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To: Seven Minute Maniac
I'd like to see a poll on FR:

McCain/Giuliani

OR

Zell Miller/Joe Lieberman

88 posted on 12/11/2005 3:46:12 AM PST by gg188
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To: Susannah
Seems to me the best Dem ticket would be McCain/Dean.

And the best Pub ticket would be Zell/Lieberman.

(I am only being partially sarcastic.)

89 posted on 12/11/2005 3:48:50 AM PST by gg188
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To: jmc1969
I can not imagine ANYONE, at least Republican, that would vote for McCaniac.
Since I am in Europe, I will not even bother to vote, unless there is a good candidate.
90 posted on 12/11/2005 3:51:00 AM PST by AlexW (Reporting from Bratislava, Slovakia)
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To: Popman

I don't vote for liberals like McCain or Clinton.


91 posted on 12/11/2005 3:56:36 AM PST by Modok
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To: BobS

Senator McCain is not up for reelection until 2010!!! That is a long time from now. He was just reelected in 2004.


92 posted on 12/11/2005 4:00:21 AM PST by napscoordinator
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To: lowbridge

Yeah.

These liberal rags just can't get over it.

These twin jerks will never get the Republican nomination. On the outside chance they do, it will assure a Democrat victory. Mainstream conservatives and moderates will vote for third party candidates or stay home.


93 posted on 12/11/2005 4:13:46 AM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: jmc1969

Zogby sent out a poll yesterday that sounded like it was planning for a hillary /mccain battle. I hope mccain gets the message that in no way, would I EVER vote for him. My answer in all cases was "someone else."


94 posted on 12/11/2005 4:16:19 AM PST by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like what you say))
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To: Calpernia

McCain is toast, thank God.


95 posted on 12/11/2005 4:20:28 AM PST by hershey
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To: Rome2000

Guiliani/Rice would get possibly 70% of vote


96 posted on 12/11/2005 4:22:27 AM PST by tkathy (Ban the headscarf. (All religious headdress). The effect will creat a huge domino effect..)
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To: Collier
Who dropped out of the race vs Hillary for Senator?

Beating her is exactly what he needs to do to establish credibility on the National stage.

Right now, he may be very well liked, but he's just another ex mayor of NYC to most of the country and has no experience outside of that city that I'm aware of.
97 posted on 12/11/2005 4:37:34 AM PST by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: Popman
"The only person that could make me vote for McCain is if he is running against the Beast: Queen Hillary"

I wouldn't care who is running against McCain or Julie-Annie on the dem side. No way would either of those gun-grabbers EVER get my vote.

98 posted on 12/11/2005 4:42:25 AM PST by Godebert
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To: Dscott_FR
"All I can say is..if that's what we have to choose from, this ol' boy is sitting this one out. Looks like Hitlery is a shoe in. Wake up GOP!"

Not voting is lazy and ignorant. You could always vote for the Constitution party if you're really a Conservative. If the Constitution party is too Conservative for you then write-in somebody you like.

99 posted on 12/11/2005 4:47:23 AM PST by Godebert
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To: Godebert

Thanks but no thanks. Allen 08


100 posted on 12/11/2005 4:49:01 AM PST by stocksthatgoup (Polls = Proof that when the MSM want your opinion it will give it to you.)
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