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Creation evangelist derides evolution as ‘dumbest’ theory [Kent Hovind Alert!]
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Post ^ | 17 December 2005 | Kayla Bunge

Posted on 12/17/2005 3:58:48 AM PST by PatrickHenry

A former high school science teacher turned creation science evangelist told an audience at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee last Tuesday that evolution is the “dumbest and most dangerous theory on planet Earth.”

Kent Hovind, founder of Creation Science Evangelism, presented “Creation or Evolution … Which Has More Merit?” to a standing-room only audience in the Union Ballroom on Dec. 6. The event was sponsored by the Apologetics Association, the organization that brought Baptist minister Tim Wilkins to UWM to speak about homosexuality in October.

No debate challengers

Members of the Apologetics Association (AA) contacted biology, chemistry and geology professors at UWM and throughout the UW System, inviting them to debate Hovind for an honorarium of $200 to be provided to the individual or group of individuals who agreed.

Before the event began, the “No-Debater List,” which was comprised of slides listing the names of UWM science professors who declined the invitation, was projected behind the stage.

Dustin Wales, AA president, said it was his “biggest disappointment” that no professor agreed to debate Hovind.

“No professor wanted to defend his side,” he said. “I mean, we had seats reserved for their people … ’cause I know one objection could have been ‘Oh, it’s just a bunch of Christians.’ So we had seats reserved for them to bring people to make sure that it’s somewhat more equal, not just all against one. And still nobody would do it.”

Biology professor Andrew Petto said: “It is a pernicious lie that the Apologetics (Association) is spreading that no one responded to the challenge. Many of us (professors) did respond to the challenge; what we responded was, ‘No, thank you.’ ”

Petto, who has attended three of Hovind’s “performances,” said that because Hovind presents “misinterpretations, half truths and outright lies,” professors at UWM decided not to accept his invitation to a debate.

“In a nutshell, debates like this do not settle issues of scientific understanding,” he said. “Hovind and his arguments are not even in the same galaxy as legitimate scientific discourse. This is why the faculty here has universally decided not to engage Hovind. The result would be to give the appearance of a controversy where none exists.”

He added, “The faculty on campus is under no obligation to waste its time supporting Hovind’s little charade.”


Kent Hovind, a former high school science teacher turned creation science evangelist, said that evolution is the "dumbest and most dangerous theory on planet Earth" at a program in the Union on Dec. 6.

Hovind, however, is used to being turned down. Near the end of his speech, he said, “Over 3,000 professors have refused to debate me. Why? Because I’m not afraid of them.”

No truths in textbooks

Hovind began his multimedia presentation by asserting that evolution is the “dumbest and most dangerous” theory used in the scientific community, but that he is not opposed to science.

“Our ministry is not against science, but against using lies to prove things,” he said. He followed this statement by citing biblical references to lies, which were projected onto screens behind him.

Hovind said: “I am not trying to get evolution out of schools or to get creation in. We are trying to get lies out of textbooks.” He added that if removing “lies” from textbooks leaves no evidence for evolutionists’ theory, then they should “get a new theory.”

He cited numerous state statutes that require that textbooks be accurate and up-to-date, but said these laws are clearly not enforced because the textbooks are filled with lies and are being taught to students.

Petto said it is inevitable that textbooks will contain some errors.

“Sometimes, this is an oversight. Sometimes it is the result of the editorial and revision process. Sometimes it is the result of trying to portray a rich and complex idea in a very few words,” he said.

The first “lie” Hovind presented concerned the formation of the Grand Canyon. He said that two people can look at the canyon. The person who believes in evolution would say, “Wow, look what the Colorado River did for millions and millions of years.” The “Bible-believing Christian” would say, “Wow, look what the flood did in about 30 minutes.”

To elaborate, Hovind discussed the geologic column — the chronologic arrangement of rock from oldest to youngest in which boundaries between different eras are marked by a change in the fossil record. He explained that it does not take millions of years to form layers of sedimentary rock.

“You can get a jar of mud out of your yard, put some water in it, shake it up, set it down, and it will settle out into layers for you,” he said. Hovind used this concept of hydrologic sorting to argue that the biblical flood is what was responsible for the formation of the Grand Canyon’s layers of sedimentary rock.

Hovind also criticized the concept of “micro-evolution,” or evolution on a small, species-level scale. He said that micro-evolution is, in fact, scientific, observable and testable. But, he said, it is also scriptural, as the Bible says, “They bring forth after his kind.”

Therefore, according to the Bible and micro-evolution, dogs produce a variety of dogs and they all have a common ancestor — a dog.

Hovind said, however, Charles Darwin made a “giant leap of faith and logic” from observing micro-evolution into believing in macro-evolution, or evolution above the species level. Hovind said that according to macro-evolution, birds and bananas are related if one goes back far enough in time, and “the ancestor ultimately was a rock.”

He concluded his speech by encouraging students to personally remove the lies from their textbooks and parents to lobby their school board for accurate textbooks.

“Tear that page out of your book,” he said. “Would you leave that in there just to lie to the kids?”

Faith, not science

Petto said Hovind believes the information in textbooks to be “lies” because his determination is grounded in faith, not science.

“Make no mistake, this is not a determination made on the scientific evidence, but one in which he has decided on the basis of faith alone that the Bible is correct, and if the Bible is correct, then science must be wrong,” he said.

Petto said Hovind misinterprets scientific information and then argues against his misinterpretation.

“That is, of course, known as the ‘straw man’ argument — great debating strategy, but nothing to do with what scientists actually say or do,” he said. “The bottom line here is that the science is irrelevant to his conclusions.”

Another criticism of Hovind’s presentation is his citation of pre-college textbooks. Following the event, an audience member said, “I don’t think using examples of grade school and high school biology can stand up to evolution.”

Petto called this an “interesting and effective rhetorical strategy” and explained that Hovind is not arguing against science, but the “textbook version” of science.

“The texts are not presenting the research results of the scientific community per se, but digesting and paraphrasing it in a way to make it more effective in learning science,” he said. “So, what (Hovind) is complaining about is not what science says, but what the textbooks say that science says.”

Petto said this abbreviated version of scientific research is due, in part, to the editorial and production processes, which impose specific limits on what is included.

He added that grade school and high school textbooks tend to contain very general information about evolution and pressure from anti-evolutionists has weakened evolutionary discussion in textbooks.

“Lower-level texts … tend to be more general in their discussions of evolution and speak more vaguely of ‘change over time’ and adaptation and so on,” he said. “Due to pressure by anti-evolutionists, textbook publishers tend to shy away from being ‘too evolutionary’ in their texts … The more pressure there is on schools and publishers, the weaker the evolution gets, and the weaker it gets, the more likely that it will not do a good job of representing the current consensus among biologists.”

Debate offer still stands

Hovind has a “standing offer” of $250,000 for “anyone who can give any empirical evidence (scientific proof) for evolution.” According to Hovind’s Web site, the offer “demonstrates that the hypothesis of evolution is nothing more than a religious belief.”

The Web site, www.drdino.com, says, “Persons wishing to collect the $250,000 may submit their evidence in writing or schedule time for a public presentation. A committee of trained scientists will provide peer review of the evidence offered and, to the best of their ability, will be fair and honest in their evaluation and judgment as to the validity of the evidence presented.”

Make it visible

Wales said the AA’s goal in bringing Hovind to UWM was “to crack the issue on campus” and bring attention to the fallibility of evolution.

“The ultimate goal was to say that, ‘Gosh, evolution isn’t as concrete as you say it is, and why do you get to teach everyone this non-concrete thing and then not defend it when someone comes and says your wrong?’ ” he said. “It’s just absurd.”


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: antisciencetaliban; clowntown; creatidiot; creationisminadress; crevolist; cultureofidiocy; darwindumb; evolution; fearofcreation; fearofgod; goddooditamen; hidebehindscience; hovind; idiocy; idsuperstition; ignoranceisstrength; keywordwars; lyingforthelord; monkeyman; monkeyscience; scienceeducation; silencingdebate; uneducatedsimpletons
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We haven't had a Kent Hovind thread in a long time.
1 posted on 12/17/2005 3:58:49 AM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: VadeRetro; Junior; longshadow; RadioAstronomer; Doctor Stochastic; js1138; Shryke; RightWhale; ...
Evolution Ping

The List-O-Links
A conservative, pro-evolution science list, now with over 320 names.
See the list's explanation, then FReepmail to be added or dropped.
To assist beginners: But it's "just a theory", Evo-Troll's Toolkit,
and How to argue against a scientific theory.

2 posted on 12/17/2005 3:59:39 AM PST by PatrickHenry (... endless horde of misguided Luddites ...)
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To: PatrickHenry

If Hovind says so, it must be so!! lol

Thanks for the ping.


3 posted on 12/17/2005 4:01:05 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: PatrickHenry

I hope that's an observation, not a reason.


4 posted on 12/17/2005 4:02:38 AM PST by Oztrich Boy (so natural to mankind is intolerance in whatever they really care about - J S Mill)
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To: PatrickHenry

"“Tear that page out of your book,” he said. “Would you leave that in there just to lie to the kids?”"

He's promoting vandalism too. Who does he think he is, Robin Williams in the Dead Poets Society? What a loon. I DO think this deserves a few choice Jack Chick cartoons.


5 posted on 12/17/2005 4:06:46 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

Interesting, do you even know what he's
pointing out to be a lie? Why do you sacastically
spew "If Hovind says so!!"?

Evolution is such a ridiculous cult and why so many
scientist are blinded by it's UNscientific allure is
beyond me?

All Hovind does is point out FACTUAL untruths in text
books. ie, the spotted moth. He does have some theories,
that are just as valid as any scientific GUESS around.


6 posted on 12/17/2005 4:30:06 AM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: PatrickHenry

Is he the same guy who came on the Ali G show?


7 posted on 12/17/2005 4:33:08 AM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: sirchtruth
"Why do you sacastically
spew "If Hovind says so!!"? "

Hovind wouldn't know the truth if it bit him on the ass.

"All Hovind does is point out FACTUAL untruths in text
books. ie, the spotted moth"

The peppered moth is a fine example of natural selection in action. There is nothing wrong wrong with using it.

" He does have some theories,
that are just as valid as any scientific GUESS around."

His theory is he can make a lot of money selling videos to boobs with a 3rd grade education. He has a lot of supporting evidence for this theory. His other *theories*?; not so much.
8 posted on 12/17/2005 4:33:46 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: sirchtruth
He does have some theories, that are just as valid as any scientific GUESS around.

you mean like his "theory" that the grand canyon was created in a 30 minute flashflood?

9 posted on 12/17/2005 4:35:48 AM PST by bobdsmith
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
Hovind wouldn't know the truth if it bit him on the ass.

LOL. This is the correct motorcycle.

Of course, there are always some who will believe some moron who calls himself Dr. Dino and thinks the income tax is voluntary.

Since he was raided by the IRS about a year and a half ago, there's probably an indictment looming in his relatively near future. Perhaps his next project will be grey-bar motel theme park.

10 posted on 12/17/2005 5:01:10 AM PST by AntiScumbag
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To: PatrickHenry

bump


11 posted on 12/17/2005 5:03:22 AM PST by tutstar (Baptist Ping List Freepmail me if you want on or off this ping list.)
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To: PatrickHenry

It is all about fleecing the flock.

Note that I didn't include the links for the above in the public interest.

12 posted on 12/17/2005 5:08:52 AM PST by peyton randolph (Warning! It is illegal to fatwah a camel in all 50 states)
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To: PatrickHenry
“In a nutshell, debates like this do not settle issues of scientific understanding,” he said. “Hovind and his arguments are not even in the same galaxy as legitimate scientific discourse. This is why the faculty here has universally decided not to engage Hovind. The result would be to give the appearance of a controversy where none exists.”

He added, “The faculty on campus is under no obligation to waste its time supporting Hovind’s little charade.”

Exactly and perfectly stated.

13 posted on 12/17/2005 5:11:37 AM PST by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopechne is walking around free)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
The peppered moth is a fine example of natural selection in action. There is nothing wrong wrong with using it.

If YOU say so!

Look, my contention is evolution is not proven and shouldn't be taught as such.

14 posted on 12/17/2005 5:16:25 AM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: AntiScumbag
Since he was raided by the IRS about a year and a half ago, there's probably an indictment looming in his relatively near future.

Yes, and this is the same stuff evolution is made up of, halftuths, speculative B.S. wishful thinking...

Thank you for providing a perfect example of the idiocy of agendized science.

15 posted on 12/17/2005 5:21:15 AM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: sirchtruth
"If YOU say so!"

I do, and so does the evidence. The peppered moth example was never meant to show speciation.

" Look, my contention is evolution is not proven and shouldn't be taught as such."

No theory in science ever gets proven. Proof is for mathematics and whiskey. It's all about evidence in science; and Hovind with his fake diploma hasn't any. :)
16 posted on 12/17/2005 5:24:41 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: bobdsmith
you mean like his "theory" that the grand canyon was created in a 30 minute flashflood?

Yeah, like the "theory" our ears use to be fish gills. Don't you remember when your ancestors were swimin' around? Someone HAD to come up out of the water to take that first breath!

17 posted on 12/17/2005 5:31:31 AM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: PatrickHenry
Better dumb and right, than clever and wrong.
18 posted on 12/17/2005 5:33:10 AM PST by JasonC
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past; ohioWfan; Tribune7; Tolkien; GrandEagle; Right in Wisconsin; Dataman; ..
“No professor wanted to defend his side,” he said. “I mean, we had seats reserved for their people … ’cause I know one objection could have been ‘Oh, it’s just a bunch of Christians.’ So we had seats reserved for them to bring people to make sure that it’s somewhat more equal, not just all against one. And still nobody would do it.”


Revelation 4:11Intelligent Design
See my profile for info

19 posted on 12/17/2005 5:34:41 AM PST by wallcrawlr (Pray for the troops [all the troops here and abroad]: Success....and nothing less!!)
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To: PatrickHenry

Wow, look what the flood did in about 30 minutes.”

LoL, That's where I stopped reading. That is just ignorant!


20 posted on 12/17/2005 5:34:50 AM PST by wolfcreek
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