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Driver who ran over cat 11 times spared prison
The Daily Telegraph (UK) ^ | December 22, 2005 | Unsigned

Posted on 12/22/2005 10:49:03 AM PST by aculeus

A man who was caught on CCTV repeatedly driving his car over a cat has been spared jail.

Barry Haggerty, a 58-year-old chartered surveyor from Buckinghamshire, claimed he ran over the cat 11 times because he wanted to put it out of its misery.

Haggerty was heading for work when he ran over Mixey the cat on April 12. He returned to the scene and drove forwards and backwards over the animals as it thrashed around in pain, eventually killing it.

He pleaded guilty to a charge of animal cruelty and was sentenced by Milton Keynes Magistrates to a period of imprisonment of six weeks, suspended for 52 weeks. He was also ordered to do 60 hours' community service and to pay the prosecution costs of £4,182.

Dean Price, the defence solicitor, said Haggerty was "an animal lover" who was trying to put the cat out of its misery and had reacted with "horror and remorse" when he was shown CCTV footage of what he had done.

He told police he thought he had killed the cat outright when he first hit it but he returned and ran it over a further 10 times just to be sure.

The four-minute CCTV footage showed Haggerty's silver Renault Clio drive forwards and backwards over the one-year-old tortoiseshell female 10 times over a two-and-a-half-minute period.

The cat could clearly be seen thrashing its legs and tail in agony. Haggerty is seen to get out of his car at one stage to assess the state of the cat.

"I feel really awful," Haggerty said. "My only thoughts were how can I stop this animal suffering. The only thing I had was the car. I thought I was acting in the best interests of the cat."

Information appearing on telegraph.co.uk is the copyright of Telegraph Group Limited and must not be reproduced in any medium without licence. For the full copyright statement see Copyright


TOPICS: Extended News; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: kittyping
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To: SALChamps03

Drowned it, or wrung it's neck?


101 posted on 12/22/2005 11:48:38 AM PST by Modok
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To: plain talk

Twice is usually enough. At least that's what I've heard.


102 posted on 12/22/2005 11:49:01 AM PST by AD from SpringBay (We have the government we allow and deserve.)
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To: RobRoy
I believe it is stimulus response and all preprogrammed response.

My guess is that you're working from a different definition of "pain" than I am.

103 posted on 12/22/2005 11:50:28 AM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Fawn

I do not understand statements like that.


104 posted on 12/22/2005 11:51:35 AM PST by SALChamps03
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To: indcons

Exactly. They can give the impression that they feel pain, but so do characters in video games when you "smack 'em" or shoot 'em. But they don't really.

I believe the animals brain is quite aware of what is stimulating his nervous system and responds with a pre-programmed response. I also believe animals can "learn". But I do not believe they "feel" in the way we apply the word to humans. They "feel" like you car "feels" when the check engine light comes on. It is a pre-programmed response originating from the brain (cpu) in response to an electrical impulse from a sensor (nerve ending), and that is all.

It would be unnerving if every time your check engine light came on, part of the programming cased a digitally stored recording of a womans blood curdling scream to come over the stereo speaker system. But it wouldn't really mean your car felt anything.


105 posted on 12/22/2005 11:52:37 AM PST by RobRoy
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To: Wissa

"Here's a little experiment to try to test your hypothesis. Light a cigarette and tape it onto a 6' stick. Sneak up behind a pitbull and hold the lit cigarette against his rump until it starts to burn into the flesh.

Get back to us and let us know if it showed any indication of feeling pain."

See my post 105.


106 posted on 12/22/2005 11:55:22 AM PST by RobRoy
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To: Fawn

"Wow....I hope you're a rare breed."

Like you, I'm one of a kind! 8^>


107 posted on 12/22/2005 11:57:13 AM PST by RobRoy
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To: aculeus

That's how we used to make sail cats. Poor man's frisby.


108 posted on 12/22/2005 11:59:17 AM PST by Casloy
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To: Fawn

Fawn,

You just don't understand! This man HAD to run over the cat AT LEAST 11 times....How else do you get the meat tenderized enough for the stew?


109 posted on 12/22/2005 11:59:19 AM PST by politicket
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To: politicket

I hope you get all clothes for Christmas.


110 posted on 12/22/2005 12:01:43 PM PST by Fawn
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To: RobRoy

Are you saying by your post that animals don't feel pain?

Their distress is not analytical - oh my I have a broken leg and I may have trouble walking in the future - but animals do feel pain just as we do. Did you believe otherwise?


111 posted on 12/22/2005 12:03:12 PM PST by Wicket (God bless and protect our troops and God bless America)
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To: RobRoy

Your understanding of animals' minds is not based on facts.


112 posted on 12/22/2005 12:04:26 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: Fawn
I hope you get all clothes for Christmas.

LOL!! Touche..
113 posted on 12/22/2005 12:05:16 PM PST by politicket
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To: aculeus

Gee.The last cat I ran over only needed one pass. Not ten more.


114 posted on 12/22/2005 12:05:53 PM PST by Mjpaco
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To: Fawn
"I hope you get all clothes for Christmas"

Ouch! ROTFL!!

sw

115 posted on 12/22/2005 12:06:27 PM PST by spectre (Spectre's wife)
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To: RobRoy

My wife was taught to use a plastic gallon milk jug at 4H.

Cut off the bottom and enough of the top to fit a chicken's neck. Tie it to a clothes line. Thread the chicken's neck through the opening in the milk jug. Slit the throat with a razor.

They even gave her a chicken to practice on. I think she was 12. I wonder if 4H clubs do that sort of practical training today....


116 posted on 12/22/2005 12:06:50 PM PST by frgoff
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To: Wissa

Er, I don't think he'd be getting back to us after that :-)


117 posted on 12/22/2005 12:07:54 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: Wicket

See post #105......it is quite...ummm...interesting (for the lack of a better word).


118 posted on 12/22/2005 12:08:53 PM PST by indcons (FReepmail indcons to join the MilHist ping list)
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To: jmq

That's about the funniest thing I've seen in a long time.


119 posted on 12/22/2005 12:08:59 PM PST by sparkomatic (I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me. Phil 4:13)
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To: RobRoy
It's a CAT, for crying out loud! Some people eat them!

I'd like to see you try!

120 posted on 12/22/2005 12:12:06 PM PST by SlowBoat407 (The best stuff happens just before the thread snaps.)
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To: RobRoy
I believe the animals brain is quite aware of what is stimulating his nervous system and responds with a pre-programmed response. I also believe animals can "learn". But I do not believe they "feel" in the way we apply the word to humans. They "feel" like you car "feels" when the check engine light comes on. It is a pre-programmed response originating from the brain (cpu) in response to an electrical impulse from a sensor (nerve ending), and that is all.

If that is how you'd define the mechanism whereby an animal senses and can respond to the stimulation, how is it different in a human?

121 posted on 12/22/2005 12:12:28 PM PST by Wissa (I despise the liberal media.)
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To: calex59

"...and had reacted with "horror and remorse" when he was shown CCTV footage of what he had done."

Like Tookie Williams?"



The ONLY thing I said was "Like Tookie Williams"

Immediately you assumed that I was equating killing a human being with killing a cat.

I was making a sarcastic remark about this guy's apparent "horror and remorse" when he saw a picture of himself running over a cat 11 TIMES, with Tookie Williams for his feigned "conversion".

That's all.

Imediately you assumed I was equating killing a cat with killing a human being.

I don't even wish to address that analogy as it is irrelevant to the point I was making.

Either YOU have a serious problem in that YOU view any sympathic expression about somebody killing an animal with a PETA-like evaluation of human life, OR you totally misinterpreted what I was saying.

The latter is very possible as a written format for expressing ideas is inferior to a face to face conversation.

If you were misled by my original remark, I apologize. And I think you owe me an apology for making insinuations about me which were totally inappropriate.



122 posted on 12/22/2005 12:13:32 PM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: Pessimist
Have you ever watched a cat when it catches a bird or a mouse? They "play" with it (aka torture it) before they kill it.

No they don't.
While domesticated cats certainly retain much of the predatory nature of their wild "cousins", enough of the killer instinct has been bred out that a quick and certain kill is not assured. What YOU describe as "playing" is actually the cat fluctuating between two instinctive impulses: to kill OR to ignore. If the prey remains motionless, the cat will likely ignore it. But if the prey moves, the cat will reflexively attack (albeit with much less competence than wild felines).

That's why cats sometimes chase their own tails or like to "play" with string or yarn. They're instinctively programmed to attack something that shape that is moving: snakes!

123 posted on 12/22/2005 12:16:15 PM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: RobRoy; Billthedrill; Fawn
I believe the animals brain is quite aware of what is stimulating his nervous system and responds with a pre-programmed response.

That's probably about how a large predator assesses the responses of a human as it rips out the first big bite. "I bite food, it makes a loud noise, so what?" Most humans, excepting you apparently, are better able to comprehend what another sentient creature is feeling. Animals, like very young humans, don't appear to be able to "put themselves in another's shoes", and consider what it must feel like to be that other creature in the given circumstances. But, also like very young humans, this does not mean they aren't feeling anything themselves. A 2 year old human which hits or bites its newborn sibling out of instinctive jealousy, doesn't grasp that it is causing the little creature pain, but torture the same 2 year old and s/he he will definitely experience agony.

124 posted on 12/22/2005 12:17:26 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: pabianice
"This guy deserves to be run over 11 times. Bastard."

Absolutely.

Carolyn

125 posted on 12/22/2005 12:18:09 PM PST by CDHart (The world has become a lunatic asylum and the lunatics are in charge.)
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To: GovernmentShrinker

The punishment for running over Tabby or Fido is greater than drowning a baby in a toilet.


126 posted on 12/22/2005 12:19:26 PM PST by stocksthatgoup ("It's inexcusable to tell us to 'connect the dots' and not give us the tools to do so." G W Bush)
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Comment #127 Removed by Moderator

To: GovernmentShrinker

Some people never develope empathy....I think it's from inbreeding.


128 posted on 12/22/2005 12:33:34 PM PST by Fawn
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To: stocksthatgoup

There is no punishment for accidentally running over Tabby or Fido, nor for humanely euthanizing Tabby or Fido (either at the vet, or with a clean close-range shot to the head). Quick killing of newborns is generally viewed as a panic reaction, especially when, as usual, it's by a very young mother who has good reason to fear abuse from a parent if the baby is discovered. Such cases virtually always draw at least a short prison term or a psych hospital term. The girl who drowned her newborn in a toilet at a high school prom a few years back, and then went right back to dancing, spent at least a couple of years in prison, as I recals, with several years of parole/probation afterwards. Repeated infliction of severe pain on a newborn, whether or not resulting in its death, or serious neglect of a newborn (such as not feeding it), will result in a signficantly longer prison term. Sadly, what those deliberate heinous acts do NOT result in, is sterilization of the perpetrator before release. As a result, most of the severe child abuse cases we hear about are "not the first time" cases.


129 posted on 12/22/2005 12:34:20 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: aculeus

The horror!

He should have used his cell phone to call the China Dragon restaurant.

Problem solved.


130 posted on 12/22/2005 12:52:58 PM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon Liberty, it is essential to examine principle)
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To: GovernmentShrinker

"Your understanding of animals' minds is not based on facts."

Absolutely!


131 posted on 12/22/2005 12:55:37 PM PST by RobRoy
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To: Wicket

"Are you saying by your post that animals don't feel pain?"

Correct. "Pain" is a subjective word and has no context outside of humans. We only know that other humans feel pain because we are one ourselves and WE feel pain. It is a thing that cannot be measured.That is the only basis we have.

We don't have that basis in animals, so my post 105 applies.


132 posted on 12/22/2005 12:58:45 PM PST by RobRoy
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To: Modok

If your question was inadvertently addressed to a Santaria member, you should have added the option of "Bit the head off".


133 posted on 12/22/2005 1:00:34 PM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon Liberty, it is essential to examine principle)
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To: RobRoy

That is ludicrous. Absurd.

*You* automatically cry out in pain if you're slashed; so somehow, that's *just* an "autoMATED" response that has nothing to do w/feelings?

This makes no sense whatsoever. Why cry out? What's the purpose? If the animal feels nothing, there's no point in crying out! For crying out loud....

A cat is most definitely a living being; a car is not. I love both, but I'm well aware it's my CAT that experiences pain, whereas my inANIMate car does not.


134 posted on 12/22/2005 1:08:55 PM PST by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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To: Wissa

"If that is how you'd define the mechanism whereby an animal senses and can respond to the stimulation, how is it different in a human?"


It isn’t different in a human machine. It is the same. But the human machine is merely what we occupy. You and I are not the body we occupy any more than we are the car we occupy when we drive. Our feelings of pain are merely via our connection to this body, and our interpretation of the stimulus originating at our nerve endings. And this does not even get into our feelings when shunned by a group, etc. when nothing has been physically done to us. Animals do not contain a human spirit. They are basically automatons.

I think of the human machine as a fighter plane with a pilot, and animals as drone aircraft. What makes the fighter more important to protect is not really the fact that it is more expensive to produce. What makes it more valuable is that it contains a human pilot. What makes a human body more valuable is that it contains a human soul. Once the soul leaves, the body is just so much meat, like a car at a junk yard.


135 posted on 12/22/2005 1:10:55 PM PST by RobRoy
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To: Joe Boucher

Yeah. You can never perfectly trust them to keep themselves from mauling small children...

...oh wait, that's dogs! ;-)


136 posted on 12/22/2005 1:11:50 PM PST by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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To: GovernmentShrinker

I "put myself in the shoes" of humans, not animals.


137 posted on 12/22/2005 1:12:07 PM PST by RobRoy
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To: All; Fawn

Well, having read most of the posts; people are upset. Okay then, how would you have dealt with the cat having been run over once and it was still alive?
The driver's statement was that ""I feel really awful," Haggerty said. "My only thoughts were how can I stop this animal suffering. The only thing I had was the car. I thought I was acting in the best interests of the cat." From that, I derive the thought that he tried his best to put out the cat. Yes,the cat suffered pain, but did his actions result in less duration of suffering for the cat? If so, then the cat was treated humanely just as if it went to the vet.
He most likely did not have a gun. The UK is a gun control society where even airguns are restricted. I think he may have been panic stricken. Have you ever been in that state? That is why he could have done that multiple times.
Using any other instrument such as a shovel,boot, or a tire iron just looks to some people as unnecessary cruelty.
Taking him to the vet sounds like a good idea, but the cat would have been suffering longer and it would have cost him some money that he may have needed. Who knows. I was not there so I cannot say the state of his finances. Call animal control? Wait how long while kitty is expiring horribly? I don't want the creature to suffer long.
There was another poster who admitted hitting a bird and he kept driving although he felt bad. Some other poster called him a Heartless B*****D.
D*MN*d i fyou do, d*MN*d if you don't.


138 posted on 12/22/2005 1:12:23 PM PST by Redcitizen (My tagline can beat up your honor tagline)
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To: Fawn

"Some people never develope empathy....I think it's from inbreeding."

You're not showing me much empathy. ;)


139 posted on 12/22/2005 1:13:01 PM PST by RobRoy
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To: Williams

I think maybe this was perfect. I'm not big into animal "abuse" jailing (mainly cuz the term "abuse" is ABUSED just as much as "torture"), but I do think there should be exceptions.

I'm betting this man had "good" intentions; he was just stupid. So, maybe he shouldn't have gotten 6 weeks, but at least a week or so should drive home the point to him and others that such abuses are just too much.

Some1 intentional - go ahead and give'em 6 weeks.

If he was just run over or struck once, I wouldn't make it worse than the couple weeks.

What scares me is that a) people might think they can go around abusing OTHER PEOPLE'S animal property w/impugnity and b) it might illicitly condone rage and abuse and such people could be very unstable around ANY living being. We should send the message that out-of-control behavior is BAD.


140 posted on 12/22/2005 1:17:05 PM PST by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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To: the OlLine Rebel
*You* automatically cry out in pain if you're slashed; so somehow, that's *just* an "autoMATED" response that has nothing to do w/feelings?

The crying out comes WITH the feelings. It is merely a response of your human machine. You do not make a conscious decision to do it. It is part of your human machines defensive mechanism. And, unlike animals, we can make a conscious decision to suppress it, if need be. Animals don’t.

This makes no sense whatsoever. Why cry out? What's the purpose? If the animal feels nothing, there's no point in crying out! For crying out loud....

There are several beneficial reasons for quickly crying out, actually. Heck, watch March of the Penguins.

A cat is most definitely a living being; a car is not. I love both, but I'm well aware it's my CAT that experiences pain, whereas my inANIMate car does not.

You believe your cat experiences pain, but being a human and not a cat, you cannot know, and both the cat and the car can be programmed to scream. You lower the bar too much. The bar is not “being alive”. Plant’s are alive.

141 posted on 12/22/2005 1:36:23 PM PST by RobRoy
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To: RobRoy

Surely you don`t really believe animals are incapable of feeling pain? If that was true, why will a dog cower in fear from someone who beats it?


142 posted on 12/22/2005 1:43:42 PM PST by chessplayer
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To: aculeus

My grandfather use to do that to snakes in the road, not to put them out of their misery but, to make sure they were dead.


143 posted on 12/22/2005 1:49:27 PM PST by wolfcreek
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To: aculeus

A few years ago, I saw a duck and a bunch of ducklings in the cement median of a highway during rush hour. There was no way they were getting out of there alive. I gavem brief consideration to sliding over and performing a quick mercy killing. I didn't but there were a bunch of dead ducks on the median the next day.


144 posted on 12/22/2005 2:06:19 PM PST by cyclotic (Cub Scouts-Teach 'em young to be men, and politically incorrect in the process)
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To: the OlLine Rebel

I'd come back with a line about children but I'd get in trouble,
Again.


145 posted on 12/22/2005 2:07:25 PM PST by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
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To: chessplayer

"Surely you don`t really believe animals are incapable of feeling pain? If that was true, why will a dog cower in fear from someone who beats it?"

Is it fear, or self preservation and anticipation from what it has learned.

I believe an animals brain receives the same sort of impulses that a human brain does if you step on it's toe. I believe it is the conscious interpretation of that signal that is different. In humans, it is called pain. In animals, it is pure stimulus, response. And it is often what keeps them alive - which is the whole point.


146 posted on 12/22/2005 2:11:47 PM PST by RobRoy
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To: RobRoy
I agree with you completely on there being a value difference between humans and animals.

Animals are around for various purposes on this world. Meat, companionship as pets, workers as draft animals or protection as guard dogs etc, or just fitting in as parts of God's grand plan.

Animals don't have souls, but they DO experience physical pain and suffering just as we do. To cause an animal to suffer needlessly is cruel. Recognition of that cruelty is what makes us different from animals. A cat will toy with a mouse and torture it without any thought of how the mouse feels about the situation or implications of "right and wrong".

Many animals DO also show some evidence of limited emotions. A dog will show all the signs of being lonely or sad when he's left alone, joy when you return, fearfulness, remorse when he knows he's been misbehaving, and even a sense of humor at times.

If your experience with the animal world is limited to chickens, you just might have an incomplete view of the world from which to base your opinions on what animals are capable or incapable of experiencing.

147 posted on 12/22/2005 2:13:28 PM PST by Wissa (I despise the liberal media.)
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To: RobRoy
I hit a robin once with my car

Heartless bast**d!

(Giggle) Stupid damn robins all fly low over the roadways. They're at the bottom of the bird gene pool for intelligence.

148 posted on 12/22/2005 2:27:20 PM PST by Ciexyz (Let us always remember, the Lord is in control.)
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To: Wissa

Even a small animal is sensitive to its owner's emotions and pain. Our family dog would sit by my bedside (when I was a child) when I was sick, and wail. There is definite psychic interaction between animals and humans. I believe animals have some genetic, God-given capacity to understand human emotional needs so that they can interact well with humans, which helps guarantee their survival.


149 posted on 12/22/2005 2:38:33 PM PST by Ciexyz (Let us always remember, the Lord is in control.)
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To: Wissa

Actually, I think animals "appear" to suffer as humans do, but they don't have the consciousness to experience it as pain as we do.


150 posted on 12/22/2005 3:57:18 PM PST by RobRoy
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