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Bush was denied wiretaps, bypassed them (FISA Court denied them in unprecedented numbers)
UPI ^ | Dec. 27, 2005 | UPI

Posted on 12/27/2005 10:47:23 AM PST by Pragmatic_View

WASHINGTON, Dec. 26 (UPI) -- U.S. President George Bush decided to skip seeking warrants for international wiretaps because the court was challenging him at an unprecedented rate.

A review of Justice Department reports to Congress by Hearst newspapers shows the 26-year-old Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court modified more wiretap requests from the Bush administration than the four previous presidential administrations combined.

The 11-judge court that authorizes FISA wiretaps modified only two search warrant orders out of the 13,102 applications approved over the first 22 years of the court's operation.

But since 2001, the judges have modified 179 of the 5,645 requests for surveillance by the Bush administration, the report said. A total of 173 of those court-ordered "substantive modifications" took place in 2003 and 2004. And, the judges also rejected or deferred at least six requests for warrants during those two years -- the first outright rejection of a wiretap request in the court's history.


TOPICS: Extended News; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: abovethelaw; alqaeda; fisa; gwot; heroic; homelandsecurity; nsa; patriotleak; spying; terrorattack; terrorism; wiretap; wiretaps; wot
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To: speedy

This will make things worse, not better.....because the media will spin it as Bush trying to circumvent the courts even more than they tried to spin the original story.

This would not have helped Bush to use this at all.


221 posted on 12/27/2005 1:49:12 PM PST by rwfromkansas (http://www.xanga.com/rwfromkansas)
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To: SandyInSeattle; Pragmatic_View; AmishDude
just posted this:

Constitutional Spying ~ The solution to the FISA problem

222 posted on 12/27/2005 1:50:00 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: Cementjungle

"The MSM is desperately doing all in their power to have another 9-11 occur so they can:
Sell more newspapers
Blame Bush for not protecting us "


===

I agree, except for the order. I think their first agenda is to get rid of President Bush, so a Dem can take over.


223 posted on 12/27/2005 1:50:13 PM PST by Pragmatic_View
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To: Pragmatic_View

Great find.

" U.S. President George Bush decided to skip seeking warrants for international wiretaps because the court was challenging him at an unprecedented rate. "

My first reaction: "Good for you, President Bush!"

My second reaction: "Ann Coulter said, "I would impeach any President who didn't wiretap calls to foreign terrorists."


224 posted on 12/27/2005 1:52:45 PM PST by Forgiven_Sinner (God is offering you eternal life right now. Freep mail me if you want to know how to receive it.)
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To: Wasanother
"Is that the newest slogan?"

No, that would be "I didn't do it. You didn't see me. You can't prove anything."

"Read the Congressional Authorization."

I have, many times. It does not and can not trump the constitution, only an amendment can do that.

"Most legal opinions support the President."

Which legal opinions are you referring to?
225 posted on 12/27/2005 1:52:47 PM PST by ndt
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To: ndt
BTW, I didn't ask for your opinionated historical overview of similarities between the KGB and America. All I asked was, who's rights have been violated? Please substantiate with real evidence and not just "The President admitting to authorizing a program".
226 posted on 12/27/2005 1:53:58 PM PST by Wasanother (Terrorist come in many forms but all are RATS.)
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To: All
From the link at #222:

***************************************

Though much of the court's workings are classified, there are known instances in which FISA's "probable cause" standard prevented the government from getting warrants where common sense made it perfectly clear surveillance was justified. Notably, there was the case of Wen Ho Lee, the Chinese--American scientist who worked at the Los Alamos nuclear weapons lab. Lee downloaded nuclear codes and databases from the lab's secure computers. "In the wrong hands," his boss noted, such information could "change the global strategic balance." Despite this, and the fact that Lee had access to a warhead design that had leaked to the Chinese, had visited China in the period when Beijing apparently acquired the data, and had obvious friendly ties to Chinese nuclear scientists, it was judged that a FISA warrant could not be obtained. It didn't matter how grave the damage might be if Lee was actually engaged in espionage; what mattered was the government had no real evidence that Lee was a likely spy.

227 posted on 12/27/2005 1:55:12 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: Howlin

"How the hell can we fight terrorism when apparently the entire United States government is aligned AGAINST us!!!!
"

By going around them at every turn possible within legal means.


228 posted on 12/27/2005 1:57:18 PM PST by swheats
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To: GingisK
Great grounds for impeachment.

It certainly sounds like very arrogant behavior from any public servant.
229 posted on 12/27/2005 1:57:33 PM PST by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; All; Howlin; Condor51

The article you just posted (with link to it in your post 222 is EXCELLENT!)

I highly recommend that everyone on this thread read it.

Here is a link to your thread again:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1547770/posts

Everyone, please go to the above link, then also continue on to read the article in full at the Weekly Standard -- they have specific examples of the damage FISA is doing.


230 posted on 12/27/2005 1:57:36 PM PST by Pragmatic_View
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To: Pragmatic_View
"Are you saying that the US Constitution has been ignored for the first 200 years, all the way up to the 1970-s?"

No I do not believe I said that. Without a doubt that have been instances of constitutional violations in those 200 years, but I don't recall pointing out any specific instance.

"This whole FISA court stuff was only created then, in response to the Nixon scandal."

The Fourth Amendment predates FISA by just a bit.
231 posted on 12/27/2005 1:57:57 PM PST by ndt
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To: WatchYourself
Brilliant! They allowed everything before 9/11 and started stopping them after. Let's up more of these Fisa judges "quit in protest"

That would greatly depend on what the President was asking for.
232 posted on 12/27/2005 2:00:05 PM PST by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: ndt

So are you saying that ALL presidents violated the Constitution?

There was no law against spying on people in the US until the law passed by Congress as a knee jerk reaction to the Nixon scandal.

My point was exactly that this law has nothing to do with the Constitution and the Constitution was never interpreted as prohibiting the President from spying on our enemies, foreign and domestic. So why is it a big deal now, when in fact the only way we can find out and prevent terror attack, is by spying on terrorists inside the US.


233 posted on 12/27/2005 2:03:40 PM PST by Pragmatic_View
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To: Wasanother
"who's rights have been violated? "

Every single one of the U.S. persons that were spied on without a warrant whether innocent or guilty.

Bush has admitted it was happening and stated that it will continue, not releasing the names of those persons does not change the admission of the behavior.
234 posted on 12/27/2005 2:04:08 PM PST by ndt
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To: ContemptofCourt
Americans finally conceed that Big Goverment our Military and Intelligence is here to protect us.

Sorry, count me out.

OK, you're out.

235 posted on 12/27/2005 2:05:11 PM PST by NewLand (Posting against liberalism since the 20th century!)
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To: ndt; Howlin

"Which legal opinions are you referring to?"

===

Well, here is one, thanks to Howlin for posting it:

Appeals panel rejects secret court's limits on terrorist wiretaps

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1547700/posts?page=30#30


236 posted on 12/27/2005 2:05:21 PM PST by Pragmatic_View
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To: speedy
A few well-placed attacks would do wonders for rallying the troops.

Don't bet on it. That would be Bush's fault, too.

237 posted on 12/27/2005 2:06:11 PM PST by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: speedy

"Why didn't Bush say this when he was justifying his actions? He seems to have no interest in defending himself."

Bush has too many principles for his own good...unlike the last administration.


238 posted on 12/27/2005 2:06:11 PM PST by Fruit of the Spirit
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To: ndt
Bush has admitted it was happening and stated that it will continue, not releasing the names of those persons does not change the admission of the behavior.

He didn't admit to doing anything outside the established law.

239 posted on 12/27/2005 2:08:48 PM PST by Cementjungle
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To: ndt
I can post the AG's letter with case law supporting the President's Authorities or better yet, please show me case law supporting your argument that the President broke the law.
Can't have an honest debate with one side just yelling,"He Broke The Law" without evidence and case law to support that point.
240 posted on 12/27/2005 2:13:04 PM PST by Wasanother (Terrorist come in many forms but all are RATS.)
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