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You choose: Civil liberties or safety? by James P. Pinkerton
Newsday ^ | December 29, 2005 | James P. Pinkerton

Posted on 12/29/2005 9:01:59 AM PST by Nicholas Conradin

This will be remembered as the year in which mass surveillance became normal, even popular. Revelations about the Bush administration's domestic eavesdropping rocked the civil liberties establishment, but the country as a whole didn't seem upset. Instead, the American people, mindful of the possible danger that we face, seem happy enough that Uncle Sam is taking steps to keep up with the challenges created by new technology. Ask yourself: Do you think it's a bad idea for the feds, as U.S. News & World Report mentioned, to monitor Islamic sites inside the United States for any possible suspicious radiation leaks?

(Excerpt) Read more at newsday.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: homelandsecurity; patriotleak; pinkerton; spying
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1 posted on 12/29/2005 9:02:00 AM PST by Nicholas Conradin
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To: Nicholas Conradin

My civil rights arent hindered so the question is moot.


2 posted on 12/29/2005 9:04:13 AM PST by smith288 (Peace at all cost makes for tyranny free of charge...)
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To: Nicholas Conradin

self ping for later


3 posted on 12/29/2005 9:05:02 AM PST by jmc813
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To: smith288
My civil rights arent hindered so the question is moot.

Do you own firearms?

4 posted on 12/29/2005 9:05:42 AM PST by jmc813
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To: jmc813

When the PATRIOT Guards come collecting the guns, a lot of folks are gonna be very confused.


5 posted on 12/29/2005 9:06:49 AM PST by Wolfie
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To: Nicholas Conradin

Mass surveillance? Oh, I hardly think Bush cares one iota about my phone calls asking Mr. M to pick up a gallon of milk or the kids asking me to pick the up after practice.


6 posted on 12/29/2005 9:07:13 AM PST by mtbopfuyn (Legality does not dictate morality... Lavin)
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To: Nicholas Conradin

Interesting article.

I always see this as not an "either/or" chioice, but a balance. We "give up" freedom by having laws in the first place, or by empowering police at all. We couldn't have a society at all with total anarchy. It's a question of how much liberty, how much security.

There is the argument that we shouldn't want President Bush to have powers that we wouldn't want a Democrat president (ecch!!!) to have. Then again, when did the law ever stop the Clintons? When will we get the true story of the IRS abuses? That was NOT legal, and yet they apparently did something, and the MSM ignored it.

I hereby give up all rights to privacy I have with respect to nuclear materials in my home, office or car. :)


7 posted on 12/29/2005 9:07:38 AM PST by cvq3842
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To: Nicholas Conradin

This is actually a pretty good article and I'd suggest others reading it.  Don't be put off by this ridiculous line at the start:

This will be remembered as the year in which mass surveillance became normal, even popular.

"Mass surveillance"?  If we've got enough people here on Khalid Sheik Muhamed's buddy list to qualify as mass, we've got way bigger problems than we think.

Owl_Eagle

"You know, I'm going to start thanking
the woman who cleans the restroom in
the building I work in.  I'm going to start
thinking of her as a human being"

-Hillary Clinton
(Yes, she really said that
Peggy Noonan
The Case Against Hillary Clinton, pg 55)

8 posted on 12/29/2005 9:08:40 AM PST by South Hawthorne (In Memory of my Dear Friend Henry Lee II)
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To: Nicholas Conradin
?You choose: Civil liberties or safety? by James P. Pinkerton ...

There can ONLY be Civil-Liberty-Safety when sovereign NATIONAL BANKING exists again.....vested interest money....

.....Safe-Money-First.....is the future

.....True Free-Speech.....is out in the 'PC' future.....

?...Is Free-Speech-Safe?

9 posted on 12/29/2005 9:08:50 AM PST by maestro
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To: Nicholas Conradin

Isn't it interesting that the liberals are continuing to run around concerned about offending people's senibilities while the grown-ups are debating life and death issues. These people wil never get it.


10 posted on 12/29/2005 9:08:54 AM PST by Spok (Est omnis de civilitate.)
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To: smith288

"My civil rights arent hindered so the question is moot."

Let's phrase that properly:

My civil rights aren't hindered AT THE MOMENT, so I don't care about anyone else's civil rights.


11 posted on 12/29/2005 9:08:58 AM PST by MineralMan
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To: smith288

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1548376/posts?page=79#79


12 posted on 12/29/2005 9:09:02 AM PST by mosquitobite (As the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down.)
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To: mtbopfuyn
This President's concerns are not the question, no matter how many times folks express their trust and confidence in him. The question is whether this kind of program would be a good idea under the worst President you could imagine.

If you don't want Hillary, or someone like her, to have unfettered surveillance capability, then you shouldn't be complacent about this President having it.

13 posted on 12/29/2005 9:09:56 AM PST by lugsoul ("Try not to be sad." - Laura Bush)
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To: cvq3842

The issue is not Democrat or Republican. It's trust of the government. Unfortunately too many people only trust the govt when "their" man is in the office. I don't trust govt period.


14 posted on 12/29/2005 9:10:04 AM PST by mosquitobite (As the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down.)
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To: lugsoul

Well said.


15 posted on 12/29/2005 9:10:52 AM PST by mosquitobite (As the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down.)
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To: Nicholas Conradin

For the last week or so, I have been thinking a lot about the possibility of the NSA listening to my phone calls or driving by my home or church and testing the level of radiation present. I have come to the conclusion that they should. It will eliminate me as a possible terrorist or my affiliation to them.


16 posted on 12/29/2005 9:11:31 AM PST by jazusamo
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To: Owl_Eagle; jmc813
Remember when Britain put up traffic cameras at intersections, for safety, of course?

Britain will be first country to monitor every car journey (Cameras Everywhere-Database Kept)

17 posted on 12/29/2005 9:12:27 AM PST by Wolfie
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To: MineralMan
My civil rights aren't hindered AT THE MOMENT, so I don't care about anyone else's civil rights.

So you think its unacceptable for the US govt to monitor comm between an American and a known terrorist? You could read a bit more on history prior to the 8 yrs of Clinton to know that there is many examples of the executive branch allowing for the monitoring of communications.

18 posted on 12/29/2005 9:13:01 AM PST by smith288 (Peace at all cost makes for tyranny free of charge...)
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To: lugsoul
If you don't want Hillary, or someone like her, to have unfettered surveillance capability, then you shouldn't be complacent about this President having it.

As one Freeper pointed out to me yesterday, we'll just change the laws once a Democrat is in office. Yeah, right.

19 posted on 12/29/2005 9:13:37 AM PST by Wolfie
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To: smith288

"So you think its unacceptable for the US govt to monitor comm between an American and a known terrorist? "

Nope. I think that's just fine. You haven't read much, have you. I used to work for the NSA. What you don't know is amazing.


20 posted on 12/29/2005 9:14:39 AM PST by MineralMan
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