Skip to comments.Civil war erupts over Confederate handbags
Posted on 01/06/2006 12:05:39 PM PST by stainlessbanner
BURLESON Two North Texas high school students who were kicked out of class for displaying rebel flags vow to take their fight to court. They said they are proud of their heritage, but Burleson High School education officials maintain the Confederate symbol is offensive.
Ashley Thomas remembered how it all started. "Principal comes up and says, 'You've got to get rid of your purse... it's racist."
Ashley and Aubrie McAllum both received purses patterened after the Confederate battle flag from their parents for Christmas. Both girls decided to take their presents to school.
"I don't have 'KKK' written on me or anything; it's just a purse," Aubrie said. "Doesn't have anything to do with what color you are."
The students were asked to leave their purses with the principal; they elected to leave school after calling their parents.
Ashley was sent home three times this week. "I'm at the point where I really don't know what to do," she said. "I want to keep going to school and get my education, but this is my life. I was born and raised in the South. Why is the flag so bad?"
Here's the answer, from Burleson ISD spokesman Richard Crummel: "It's a violation of the dress code," he said. "We don't want students to wear anything that might cause a disruption, and that symbol has done that in the past."
"Then that's a heritage violation on her, on me... on all of us," said Aubrie's father, Rick McAllum. "So we can push it."
McAllum belongs to the Sons of Confederate Veterans. Ashley's mom, Joni Thomas, is from New York. But the parents of both girls praised their daughters, and vowed to fight.
"I'm hiring a lawyer," Thomas said. "I'm going all the way with it, because I think it's wrong."
Burleson High School, with a 2,200 student enrollment, is about 90 percent white, 8 or 9 percent Hispanic. There are very few African Americans.
"We want to be sensitive to everyone; make it comfortable in school for all our students," Crummel said.
Both girls said they have never been in trouble and don't want trouble now.
But they don't want to back down, either.
School officials know controversy often follows the Confederate flag, and they will not let it in.
The girls as of Friday, decided to go back to school
We grew up calling it the war between the states. Others grew up calling it the civil war. And others still, grew up calling it the War of Northern Aggression. It all depends on how you grew up.
"Let us say that his objectivity as a historian leaves much to be desired."
Thanks, that's good enough for me! I'll use the extra spare time reading something worthwhile, like Krauthammer or Sowell! Or Dave Barry!
Ok, so can you understand the anger of Blacks toward that flag your ancestors fought under? Had your ancestors won that war, the Blacks would have remained slaves. I realize the war wasn't about keeping slaves in bondage, but the fact remains, had your ancestors won the war the slaves would have remained slaves.
This why I'm glad that the all the public schools in this metropolitan area are on a school uniform code, same for the private schools. That way, one never worries about students wearing offensive T-shirts.
But seriously though, the Confederates were not traitors, they were fighting for their country just as the Yankees were fighting for theirs.
The slaves probably would not have remained slaves, because in the Southern cities, agitation was growing due to immigrant laborers who resented the fact that they had to compete with slave labor for work. Political pressure from the cities (particularly the seaports) would have forced slavery to end by the 1870s, had the South won.
I have no doubt slavery would have ended eventually, but I seriously doubt it would have been a result of pressure from imigrants. Most likely by the 80's or 90's pressure would have come from foreign countries who consumed the South's cotton. The South learned a hard lesson when they discovered that Egypt easily picked up the slack for the world's loss of the South's cotton.
Dude...YOU said the Southern States fought a war for slavery....back it up or shut up....sheesh...our Constitution was designed for States rights and the BoR for citizens rights....whatever right the States had was taken away with the Civil War....you can compare slavery then...to gay rights now....only a few select individuals care about it...but it will be imposed on all of us...
Still, I'd like to express my opinion, as a Northerner and descendant of members of the Grand Army of the Republic, that I'm disgusted by the war to stigmatize the Confederate cause as illegitimate and evil and to strip Southerners of their heritage and history. That's just wrong.
The same reason that poor soldiers have been dying for rich people forever. Because their political leaders told them it was the right, Godly and patriotic thing to do. Because their economy depended on it, even if they didn't personally own slaves. Because they had already joined the army and invested too much blood and sacrifice to quit when it got terrible. Because they saw Northerners as invaders.
But, from Bloody Kansas to the Missouri Compromise to the 3/5ths provision of the Constitution itself, it is no use denying that slavery was the root cause of the North/South division. It was the underlying schism of the two cultures.
And that's why it's known down here as the "War of Yankee Agreession".
Yea I know about Fort Sumter. Where Lincoln to incite a hot headed idiot to shoot at the Union troops in the fort, rather than evacuating them from the new nation.
Are you referring to the same Richland Rebels who are now banned from displaying the Confederate flag and had 'Dixie' removed as their school song?
Sorry about that.
My ancestors didnt get here till late 1800s early 1900s. As a thrid party observer to some of these threads it does seem to get a bit silly with all the ingrained bias and anger.
I agree with you...trying to remove someones heritage/history/culture is wrong. Its no wonder people are passionate about defending themselves.
Whenever I hear that it always makes me laugh!
I hate to admit it, but the first place I can recall hearing it is on "The Beverly Hillbillies".
Are you saying then that this school is within its right and is doing the right thing by preventing these girls from bringing these pureses to school?
Rich people died in that war too, among them, a great man, one of the greatest who has ever walked this planet, of course, I'm referring to Stonewall, tragically struck down in battle by the misguided bullet of one of his own men.
No I'm not, if the school does not have an official uniform code, they have no right to do anything. What the school did here was take an abritrary action with no policy in writing to back them up. The uniform policies the schools have here are different because they set in stone what's permissable and what's not, though on out-of-uniform days, Dixie Outfitter clothing is usually permitted, and alot of people around here still put the Battle Flag on their class rings.
after the SCV won the TN case on this VERY same issue, you'd think that school districts would "smarten up"!
obviously, the Burleson ISD didn't get the message & NOW they will PAY two young ladies for violating their civil rights.
serves them right, imVho.
MANY still do.
The slavery issue was a good moral underpinning for the North. In addition the North knew that Southerners would have to bear the brunt of social adjustments.
PLEASE note that NOBODY was offended enough to say anything. it was the UNelected school administrators that did this particular STUPIDITY!
I was under the impression that Jackson was an instructor at VMI or the Citadel or somesuch. He wasn't rich, or a member of the Plantation Class, IIRC.
And that's not to say some of the rich didn't fight for their cause. Nathan Bedford Forrest, for example, was a wealthy slave trader, who was destituted by the war after spending his fortune in support of the Confederacy.
If burning the American flag is protected speech, then what's wrong w/girls and their Confederate flag purses? There are times when it's better for "educators" to turn a blind eye to minor PC things and get on w/their primary job of TEACHING students. Frankly, I am offended that they'r not doing their primary job.
Jews also fought for Apartheid, and against it.
i am pleased & humbled to use a diminutive of his WAR-NAME!
Should a T-shirt stating "If your great-grandfather was a Confederate, you're a descendant traitor." be banned from this school if the current dress-code doesn't specifically prevent it?
When you're in a hole, it's best to stop digging.
No, because if that occurs in a public school environment in the South, then likely, a few kids will meet up with that kid after school and.....
I'm not condoning violence, I'm just saying what would happen. That's why you'll never see anyone where something like that.
So it's OK to offend a couple black kids, just don't offend the descendant of a single Confederate because that will likely end in an after school brawl. Not sure which group in this debate should be more offended by your position.
You do see the hypocrisy of your position I hope?
There were plenty of American exports of the time besides cotton and tobacco. Whale oil out of Nantucket and metal from Northern mines, for example. Also, Great Britain, where the great textile mill industry was at the time, had an interest in fostering cotton imports from her own colonial areas, like Egypt and India. You could as well say the tariffs aided American industry at the expense of Great Britain's.
The real question is why the South never tried to develop their own domestic textile industry. Or any other significant manufacturing, for that matter. One of the main reasons the South lost was the inability to manufacture the goods needed in the face of the blockade.
If I posted every slavery comment made by Southern leaders as the cause for secession, I would be still posting 25 years from now. So, I'll limit myself to the opening text of the Declaration of Causes of Seceding States.
Georgia: "The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery ..."
Mississippi: "In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery ..."
South Carolia: "The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States ..."
And so on. Geez for slavery not being an issue, those seceding states sure dwell on it a lot in the "declarations of independence". They talk about it a heck of a lot more than they talk about tariffs. I can't belive we're even arguing about this obvious fact.
This yankee says, "You go girls!"
A number of them may have seen their standard of living fall when they were free
Keep in mind that a slave was a capital asset, and as such slave owners tended to ensure they were fed well enough to stay healthy and productive. During slavery days, the dangerous and unhealthy jobs were done by Irish immigrants -- if one got killed or disabled, there was always a replacement available for hire
Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson Bringing up the rear of the sculpted group is "Stonewall" Jackson, the hero of the Valley campaign who died as a result of accidental gunfire from his own troops after the Battle of Chancellorsville. Jackson, because of his great successes and subsequent death in the field, was probably the most admired and worshipped of the Confederate generals behind Robert E. Lee. His great successes in the Valley, Fredericksburg, and Second Mannassas in the face of what seemed to be insurmountable odds gave the general a reputation as a master strategist and motivator of men.
It's not OK to offend anyone, but for the most part, I think people overblow the significance of this. My son was one of those people who put a Naval Jack on his class ring, and most of the blacks he knew had no problem with it. In Mississippi, a majority of the black population voted to keep the old flag. Whether or not a flag is displayed has little or nothing to do with anything. And I'm not being hypocritical, you're just misunderstanding what I'm saying, as it's complex. But for some reason, I doubt that anyone wears a Confederate flag into a school where a lot of people would be offended, for the same reason as the anti-Southern example, schoolyard justice.
You have to understand, there is a balance to be maintained between being respectful to people, maintaining proper social mores' of conduct, and being able to express yourself however you see fit. It's a hard balance to strike and it's not always a clear line.
Why would the Union sign a peace treaty with a rebellion? Peace treaties are only signed between sovereign parties; but the Union never recognized the confederacy as a sovereign nation.
Slavery was only economicly viable when land is essentially free. A slave would only work as hard as he had to. A free man working his own land would be much more productive, and could bid a higher price for land
"The real question is why the South never tried to develop their own domestic textile industry. Or any other significant manufacturing, for that matter. One of the main reasons the South lost was the inability to manufacture the goods needed in the face of the blockade."
Like weapons. I've wondered about the lack of factories, too. But the fact is that farms today are often even larger than plantations were. Where I live, the northside has higher taxes and more jobs because the southside has the better farmland. They complain that their side of town is underrated and gets less improvements.
Wouldn't cotton and tobacco be easier to load and haul via ship? Would they then be more frequent exports than whale oil and metal.
Would YOU want to be in a factory in Georgia in August without air conditioning?
Which is exactly the reason this school did what it did. It doesn't want to have clothing problems interferring with the students education. This school decided the balance would be best served by banning the confederate flag. This way, when the time comes for them to ban my suggested t-shirt, or a black panther t-shirt, or a Bush = hitler t-shirt, the school will be doing what it was always trying to do, minimize student conflict.
I don't accept that this issue is complex. It's only complex to those who are absolutely unwilling to place themselves in another person's shoes.
ours was a PEASANT REVOLT against the OPPRESSION by the northern industrial/social/monied elites, led by a HANDFUL of professionals like LEE, STUART,JACKSON, et.al.
our "barefooted, hungry lads in tattered gray rags" had NOTHING in excess except VALOR & DEDICATION. in the end, those things were not enough to overcome the northern leviathan.
That was a different time. Most people did not consider themselves so much as U.S. Citizens as Citizens of their state. Both north and south. Although the north had far more recent immigrants (although there were Irish units on both sides, even at the same battle). The states did not just rebel and take up arms against the national government. They formally seceded first. After secession they were, at least in their own lights, no longer US citizens, and thus they could not be traitors. These secession were in every case formal acts of legitimately elected legislatures.
Lee, for example, was severely chided by many Texas officers, for not declaring for the Confederacy (Lee was then serving in San Antonio) until his home state of Virginia formally seceded from the Union. Lincoln had in the interim asked Lee to take command of Union forces. Lee put him off until the Virginia legislature could make it's decision. When the war was lost on Lee's front, and he surrendered to Grant at Appomattox, he was not clapped in irons, but was allowed to go, and to keep his horse. Of course by then his home lands had been taken by the union forces. Today his place, actually it was from his wife's family, is known as Arlington National Cemetery.
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