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WorldWatch - Creation and Evolution in the Schools
World Watch and The Rhinoceros Times ^ | January 8, 2006 | Orson Scott Card

Posted on 01/19/2006 3:35:07 AM PST by Mr170IQ

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A good read.
1 posted on 01/19/2006 3:35:10 AM PST by Mr170IQ
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To: Mr170IQ
Evolutionary education in the only kind of education allowed in the public school system.

The results are observable and testable, and they are most commonly descending into the muddy mire.
2 posted on 01/19/2006 3:39:43 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: Mr170IQ
The real problem is that Darwinism is not just being used to teach elements of biology to children - it's being used as a foundation to "disprove" the existence of a Creator to generations of students.

The intemperate - even rabid - response of the "evolution answers everything" crowd suggests a proof of a greater agenda.

3 posted on 01/19/2006 3:42:09 AM PST by USMCVet
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To: USMCVet

Yet most people still believe God is the creator. Looks like the Darwinists still have work to do.


4 posted on 01/19/2006 4:02:58 AM PST by mlc9852
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To: Mr170IQ

I think I've seen these points in action:

The Darwinist answer was immediate. Unfortunately, it was also illogical, personal, and unscientific. The main points are:

1. Intelligent Design is just Creation Science in a new suit (name-calling).

2. Don't listen to these guys, they're not real scientists (credentialism).

3. If you actually understood science as we do, you'd realize that these guys are wrong and we're right; but you don't, so you have to trust us (expertism).

4. They got some details of those complex systems wrong, so they must be wrong about everything (sniping).

5. The first amendment requires the separation of church and state (politics).

6. We can't possibly find a fossil record of every step along the way in evolution, but evolution has already been so well-demonstrated it is absurd to challenge it in the details (prestidigitation).

7. Even if there are problems with the Darwinian model, there's no justification for postulating an "intelligent designer" (true).


5 posted on 01/19/2006 4:04:54 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: Mr170IQ
I'm so glad my God isn't an "ape" and I was created in His image. I feel sorry for those who are determined to believe their ancestors are "apes".

Everything about Creation is correct. God isn't a liar; man is. The evidence support it too when you factor in the faulty dating methods. The "big bang" was when He spoke it into existence. At my daughters school that is what they teach. Of course it's not a public school!
6 posted on 01/19/2006 4:06:24 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: Mr170IQ

As a matter of fact, she's going on a school trip to a Creation conference tomorrow. More information at http://wwww.answersinGenesis.org.


7 posted on 01/19/2006 4:09:28 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: All

That is quite an elaborate dissertation. However, I feel that the insertion of a divine or supernatural entity into natural affairs just plain goes beyond what should be taught in a science class.

'Of course scientists can't document every step of the historical process of evolution. That wouldn't be science anyway, it would be mere data collection.'

Doing a proper job of collecting data is part of the scientific method. Reducing, analyzing and interpreting it properly is the other part of the scientific method. When scientists have insufficient data to fill in the gaps left, they must then theorize (punny word in this case considering its root) what could fill in the gaps. However, they cannot insert non-scientific (i.e., non-natural) mechanisms or causal explanations to do this. Don't shoot the messenger trying to work within the bounds of her/his field of expertise, go instead after the left-leaning liberal loonies (L^4) trying to use it for their own selfish/immoral/power-hungry intentions.

God isn't trying to fool us, we are doing a good enough job on our own.


8 posted on 01/19/2006 4:21:37 AM PST by jbp1
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To: Mr170IQ
Sometimes, I think I believe in both creationism and evolution. Both could be true, but the time line for the initial existence of each were thousands of years apart. I think some of us were created by intelligence design and others evolved from forms other that human. Over time, the two mutated into what we have today. Look around, even today you can see variations of the process still being merged into a similar human form.
9 posted on 01/19/2006 4:34:59 AM PST by SR 50 (Larry)
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: wtp7

but why...

I think it's countering the scientific approaches to understand the world to much. It's more like propaganda then christianity.


11 posted on 01/19/2006 4:50:32 AM PST by globalheater (There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare - Sun Tzu)
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To: jbp1

"God isn't trying to fool us, we are doing a good enough job on our own."


I don't know about that one considering what Paul writes

IIThessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


12 posted on 01/19/2006 4:53:41 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: Mr170IQ

All I have ever seen Creationism or ID do is criticize Darwinism. Finding flaws in Darwinism is NOT the same as proving Creationism or ID (and yes, I believe they are the same, just under different names). This is just more of the same.


13 posted on 01/19/2006 5:18:00 AM PST by jim_trent
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To: ClearCase_guy
7. Even if there are problems with the Darwinian model, there's no justification for postulating an "intelligent designer" (true).

That is, unless the Creator reveals himself and explains what he did and why he did it. That takes you right out of science and into theology. You can't do that unless you are a private school.
14 posted on 01/19/2006 5:25:15 AM PST by carumba (The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. Groucho)
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To: Mr170IQ; PatrickHenry

In that entire screed, there is not one mention of any evidence in support of intelligent design, nor is there any mention of how to test for intelligent design. Whoever the author is, the sciecne train left the station before he could get on the platform. It's a propaganda puff piece with a lot of tired, old creationist B.S.


15 posted on 01/19/2006 5:30:23 AM PST by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: Mr170IQ; PatrickHenry; <1/1,000,000th%; balrog666; BMCDA; Condorman; Dimensio; Doctor Stochastic; ..

Here's an interesting read for Thursday morning.


16 posted on 01/19/2006 5:30:53 AM PST by shuckmaster (An oak tree is an acorns way of making more acorns)
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To: nmh

Intelligent design isn't much of a help to you. The leaders of the ID movement believe in common descent.


17 posted on 01/19/2006 5:41:24 AM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: doc30
Complex systems in advanced organisms depend on many biochemical steps, all of which must be in place for the system to work at all...

I take it you are dismissing this with a wave of the hand.
18 posted on 01/19/2006 5:43:49 AM PST by carumba (The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. Groucho)
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To: carumba; doc30

That's not evidence, it's an assertion. Support it, and we can talk.


19 posted on 01/19/2006 5:49:40 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: Mr170IQ
The Darwinist answer was immediate. Unfortunately, it was also illogical, personal, and unscientific. The main points are:

Card forgot one point:

0. It is an argument from incredulity, and is therefore a fallacy.

20 posted on 01/19/2006 6:00:32 AM PST by Physicist
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