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Ancient lakes of the Sahara
Innovations Report ^ | Jan 19, 2006 | University of Reading

Posted on 01/21/2006 4:14:03 AM PST by Tyche

The Sahara has not always been the arid, inhospitable place that it is today – it was once a savannah teeming with life, according to researchers at the Universities of Reading and Leicester.

Eight years of studies in the Libyan desert area of Fazzan, now one of the harshest, most inaccessible spots on Earth, have revealed swings in its climate that have caused considerably wetter periods, lasting for thousands of years, when the desert turned to savannah and lakes provided water for people and animals.

This, in turn, has given us vital clues about the history of humans in the area and how these ancient inhabitants coped with climate change as the land began to dry up around them again.

In their article ‘Ancient lakes of the Sahara’, which appears in the January-February issue of American Scientist magazine, Dr Kevin White of the University of Reading and Professor David Mattingly of the University of Leicester explain how they used satellite technology and archaeological evidence to reveal new clues about both the past environment of the Sahara and of human prehistory in the area.

“The climate of the Sahara has been highly variable over the millennia and we have been able to provide much more specific dating of these changes,” said Dr White. “Over the last 10,000 years, there have been two distinct humid phases, separated by an interval of highly variable but generally drying conditions between roughly 8,000 and 7,000 years ago. Another drying trend took place after about 5,000 years ago, leading to today’s parched environment.”

The researchers determined where surface water was once present by using radar images of the desert taken from space. These images showed rivers, lakes and springs now buried below shifting sand dunes. As these bodies dried out thousands of years ago, the resulting mineral deposits cemented the lake sediments together and these hardened layers are detectable by using radar images.

“This information was essential because archaeologists need to focus their efforts near ancient rivers, lakes and springs, where people used to congregate due to their basic need for water,” said Dr White. “We found large quantities of stone tools around the ancient water sources, indicating at least two separate phases of human occupation.”

The earliest humans in the area were Palaeolithic hunter-gatherers, who lived in the Fazzan between about 400,000 and 70,000 years ago. They survived by hunting large and small game in a landscape that was considerably wetter and greener than it is now. A prolonged arid phase from about 70,000 to 12,000 years ago apparently drove humans out of the region, but then the rains returned – along with the people.

Around 5,000 years ago the climate began to dry out again, but this time people adapted by developing an agricultural civilization with towns and villages based around oases. This process culminated with the emergence of the Garamantian society in the first millennium BC.

Professor Mattingly said: “We have been given a completely new view of this elusive and remarkable society. The Garamantes were known to the ancient Romans as a race of desert warriors, but archaeology has shown they had agriculture, cities and a phenomenally advanced system of water extraction that kept their civilisation going for 1,000 years as the land was drying up around them.”

They cultivated a variety of high-grade cereals, such as wheat and barley, and other crops such as date palms, vines, olives, cotton, vegetables and pulses.

As the Saharan climate began to dry out they drew their water from a large subterranean aquifer (an underground bed of rock that yields water) and transported it through a network of tunnels.

“The fact that the Garamantes developed this ingenious irrigation system shows that our ability to apply engineering solutions to deal with climate change is by no means only a modern phenomenon,” said Dr White. “The gradual drying up of springs and dessication of the surrounding landscape must have seemed ominous , but they knew they had to develop sophisticated methods to cope with it.

“But even this remarkably adaptable society – one of the first urban civilisations built in a desert – could not cope forever with a falling water table and intensifying aridity. Sometime around 500AD, the Garamantian society collapsed and their irrigation system fell into disuse.”

Associated with this research, Reading’s School of Human and Environmental Sciences, in collaboration with the Department of Meteorology, are undertaking a major project, linking climate, water and civilization in the Middle East and North Africa, with a £1,240,000 grant from the Leverhulme Trust.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Unclassified
KEYWORDS: africa; catastrophism; garamantes; globalwarminghoax; godsgravesglyphs; libya; paleoclimatology; sahara; water; weather
See also, Crocodiles found living in Sahara Desert. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/06/0617_020618_croc.html
1 posted on 01/21/2006 4:14:04 AM PST by Tyche
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To: zot

Techno ping


2 posted on 01/21/2006 5:40:10 AM PST by GreyFriar ((3rd Armored Division -- Spearhead))
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To: Tyche
This can't be right. Everyone knows the global climate was perfectly balanced and stable until those awful Americans came along and ruined everything with their SUVs. I think it's George Bush's fault.

-ccm

3 posted on 01/21/2006 7:38:09 AM PST by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order)
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To: GreyFriar

Very interesting. Thanks for the ping.


4 posted on 01/21/2006 3:36:33 PM PST by zot (GWB -- four more years!)
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To: Tyche

Even at its greenest the Sahara was not all lush vegetation. Better than now, but still kind of hot and dusty.


5 posted on 01/21/2006 3:44:41 PM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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To: Tyche

bump


6 posted on 01/21/2006 3:49:43 PM PST by VOA
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To: blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; StayAt HomeMother; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; asp1; ...

Archaeologica · Mirabilis · Texas AM Anthropology News · ArchaeoBlog
Archaeology magazine · Biblical Archaeology Society · Archaeology Odyssey · post a topic


7 posted on 02/12/2006 9:19:14 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Islam is medieval fascism, and the Koran is a medieval Mein Kampf.)
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To: SunkenCiv

There is a microwave band sat map that shows the lakes and rivers.... looking for it to post....


8 posted on 02/12/2006 9:27:33 AM PST by xcamel (One should hope Global Dumbing is reversible.)
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To: Tyche

Great post. The Garamante civilization held on for a long time given the circumstances described. Does anyone know anything else about them?


9 posted on 02/12/2006 9:29:03 AM PST by zakbrow (I'm running out of places to bury the bodies.)
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To: Tyche
Oh no!

Could it be true that there really was a WORLDWIDE flood?

Nah, evolutionists simply will not accept that.
10 posted on 02/12/2006 9:34:38 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: nmh; jec41; PatrickHenry
Could it be true that there really was a WORLDWIDE flood? Nah, evolutionists simply will not accept that.

How is that evidence for a WORLDWIDE flood?

The earliest humans in the area were Palaeolithic hunter-gatherers, who lived in the Fazzan between about 400,000 and 70,000 years ago. They survived by hunting large and small game in a landscape that was considerably wetter and greener than it is now. A prolonged arid phase from about 70,000 to 12,000 years ago apparently drove humans out of the region, but then the rains returned – along with the people.

Just FYI, I know Blam doesn't like to turn this into a CREO thread.

11 posted on 02/12/2006 9:57:59 AM PST by phantomworker (If you're not confused, you're not paying attention.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Ancient Sahara lakes!!
How I love this ping list! Big sloppy kiss to you, SunkenCiv! To paraphrase Alexander...if I were not Graymatter I would be SunkenCiv. :)


12 posted on 02/12/2006 10:09:05 AM PST by Graymatter
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To: zakbrow

How interesting. Garamante=Black Dutch. Seems like a catch-all phrase.

http://www.geocities.com/mikenassau/BlackDutch.htm

"At other times and places, they were called Bohemians (as in La Boheme) because they were thought to be from what is now the Czech Republic."


13 posted on 02/12/2006 10:13:05 AM PST by phantomworker (If you're not confused, you're not paying attention.)
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To: phantomworker
LOL!

When evidence is presented you don't want to hear about it.

Next you have to rally the atheists to turn attention away from world wide flood evidence. What a sorry group these evolutionists are and always will be.
14 posted on 02/12/2006 10:14:07 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: phantomworker

Interesting. Thanks.


15 posted on 02/12/2006 10:15:31 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: nmh

Where is your evidence?


16 posted on 02/12/2006 10:15:48 AM PST by phantomworker (If you're not confused, you're not paying attention.)
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To: xcamel
There is a microwave band sat map that shows the lakes and rivers.... looking for it to post....

Here's one showing a hidden section of the Nile river, I bet if you poke around some of the links you can find the lakes too.

Click the pic for the page link. Facinating stuff.

17 posted on 02/12/2006 10:24:24 AM PST by PeaceBeWithYou (De Oppresso Liber! (50 million and counting in Afganistan and Iraq))
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To: phantomworker
Did it flood the driest place on earth where in some spots life does not even exist?

The Driest Place on Earth By: Leslie Mullen In Northern Chile, a pick-up truck bumps along dusty old mining roads toward the Atacama Desert. A team of scientists is driving from the coastal town of Antofagasta, and they occasionally pass other vehicles on the road - mostly prospectors searching for metals and minerals. After an hour, they arrive at a lonely meteorological station situated in the driest part of a very dry desert. The scientists have come to the Atacama to investigate how much water life needs to survive. Water is necessary for life, but water is so scarce in the Atacama that it is a wonder anything can live there at all. Some parts of the desert have not seen rain for centuries. The desert itself is thought to be between 10 to 15 million years old, making it the oldest desert on Earth. The Atacama is probably also the driest desert in the world. While some areas of the Atacama along the coast have succulent plants like cacti, the more arid parts of the desert have no vegetation. These parched regions do not even have cyanobacteria - green photosynthetic microorganisms that live in rocks or under stones in most other deserts. The Atacama desert is one of the driest places on Earth. Scientists are searching for traces of microorganisms in this extreme environment. Credit: Carnegie Mellon University Over the course of five expeditions to the Atacama, the scientists have been searching for any traces of microscopic life in the desert rocks. "What we are studying is, 'What is the limit of life?'" says Imre Friedmann, a microbiologist with Florida State University and the NASA Ames Research Center. "At the moment, we do not know the limit of life along the aridity gradient. Organisms may have several strategies to cope. Some organisms become desiccated; others can live with very little water. Some organisms, like the common mold, can take up water from the atmosphere if the humidity is above a certain level. But these strategies aren't very well explored, and the conditions are very difficult to replicate in the lab." The best way to study such life is to go outside and observe Nature's laboratory - a far more complex structure than any man-made lab. While this is possible in the Atacama, at the moment such a field trip is impossible for the planet Mars. But by studying life in the Atacama, scientists hope to learn more about the possibility of life on Mars. Mars has two major factors affecting life: the planet is very cold - with an average temperature of minus 69 degrees C (minus 92 F) - and it is very dry. Although channels and basins seem to give testament to liquid water on the surface of Mars, they probably were created long ago. Today, any water on Mars will be in the form of ice - an essentially "dry" medium. Extreme Life Briefing Hottest: 235 F (113 C) Pyrolobus fumarii (Volcano Island, Italy) Coldest: 5 F (-15 C) Cryptoendoliths (Antarctica) Highest Radiation: (5 MRad, or 5000x what kills humans) Deinococcus radiodurans Deepest: 3.2 km underground Acid: pH 0.0 (most life is at least factor of 100,000 less acidic) pH 5-8 Basic: pH 12.8 (most life is at least factor of 1000 less basic) pH 5-8 Longest in space: 6 years Bacillus subtilis (NASA satellite) High Pressure (1200 times atmospheric) Saltiest: 30% salt, or 9 times human blood saltiness. Haloarcula Smallest: <0.1 micron or 500 fit across a human hair width (picoplankton) Credit: USGS "When is dry too dry for life?" asks Chris McKay, a planetary scientist with NASA Ames. "In the Atacama, we think we have crossed that threshold." The Atacama, however, is not as dry as Mars. It is not as cold as Mars, either, although it is cooler than most other deserts on Earth. The Atacama enjoys a temperate, Mediterranean-like climate with temperatures ranging between 0 and 23 degrees C (32 to 73 F). "The problem with having an Earth analog of Mars is that Mars is both extremely cold and very dry - on Earth, both conditions don't often occur together," says Friedmann. "In Antarctica, we studied the affect of cold on life. Atacama will help us answer the other question about Mars: the affect of dryness on life." The Antarctic studies showed scientists that cold itself is not necessarily fatal to life. Life can tolerate very low temperatures and the process of freezing. But problems occur when low temperatures persist for long periods of time. All organisms on Earth need a period every now and then when they can awaken from their winter hibernation. They use this time to gather energy, repair any DNA damage their cells may have incurred from UV radiation, grow in size, and reproduce. "There are places in Antarctica that are 'dead' because there are not enough hours of warmer temperatures," says Friedmann. "Even asleep, organisms need energy. The dead areas are where organisms must have used more energy than they could produce." Antarctica makes a good Mars analogue because the region is both cold and essentially dry. But Antarctica experiences seasonal fluctuations when the ice in the microorganism's environment melts, so it can not answer questions about the water limits of life. To learn more about the "dry" part of the Mars question, Friedmann, McKay, and others are now focusing on the Atacama. "The soils in the extreme arid core region of the Atacama appear to be the most lifeless and Mars-like on Earth," says McKay. The large deposits of nitrate in the Atacama indicate the area has very little life. The nitrate is produced by electrical discharges (lightning): during storms, the lightning causes nitrogen and oxygen in the atmosphere to combine to form nitrate. This nitrate precipitates down to the desert floor, but in such small amounts it is not discernable. "You cannot see or feel the tiny amounts of falling nitrate, and it doesn't collect in your clothes," says Friedmann. "After a year, though, you can show by chemical tests their presence in a rock." Normally, bacteria and plants immediately use up any nitrate produced by lightning. The accumulation of nitrate - such as the deposits found in the Atacama - usually means there is no life present. While cyanobacteria appear to be absent, the scientists did find small numbers of heterotrophic bacteria in some Atacama desert soils. Instead of producing their own energy through photosynthesis - as cyanobacteria do - heterotrophic bacteria gather their energy by feeding on other organisms. The scientists don't know what these Atacama bacteria are eating, or how they get their water. They are not even sure why some spots of the desert had the heterotrophic bacteria, while other areas seemed to be completely lifeless. "It may be awhile before we understand the water limits of life," says Friedmann. "The Antarctic studies took us 20 years before we felt we had an answer about the limits of low temperature." In addition to water limits, the scientists are also hoping to determine how organisms develop defenses against UV radiation. Such radiation would be yet another limit to life on Mars, which experiences more intense radiation than Earth. Friedmann cautions that while the Atacama studies may go a long way toward improving our understanding of the limits of life, they will not fully answer our questions about life on Mars. "All our Earth analogies are much weaker than the conditions that are present on Mars," says Friedmann. "Mars is much drier, much colder, with much more intense UV radiation." What's Next "Our main focus right now is to understand these organic-free, sterile, and presumably oxidizing soils that we find in the core of the Atacama Desert," says McKay. For instance, by combining measurements from nature, theoretical equations, and lab experiments, the scientists hope to determine what sort of climate microorganisms may experience in the soils of the Atacama. "Microorganisms live in a different climate than what we live in," says Friedmann. "They live between particles in the soil, in compact places with very small distances. We're trying to measure the climate in these tight places."

18 posted on 02/12/2006 10:39:32 AM PST by jec41 (Screaming Eagle)
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To: nmh

Start yer own thread. It's not that hard.


19 posted on 02/12/2006 10:44:54 AM PST by null and void (<---- Aged to perfection, and beyond...)
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To: Tyche

Dry sand regions are ideal for the SAR experiments. They are using this tech on Mars as well for the same purpose. What are the chances of finding ancient villages along old river channels and around old lakes? Good, in fact some have been found, but not on Mars as yet.


20 posted on 02/12/2006 10:48:36 AM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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To: phantomworker
3. Schwarzer Deutsch or Black Germans, found along the Danube River in Austria and Germany, in the Black Forest and, to a lesser extent, along the Rhine River, have dark hair and eyes, unlike the fairer people both north and south of them.
Their descendants in America may be called either Black Dutch or Black German.
The origin of their dark coloration is ancient, from the Roman army in the third and fourth centuries, C.E.
The Roman army of this time period was mostly made up of German mercenary soldiers, but along the German border, the Romans preferred to station non-Germans. The army on the Danube was mostly drawn from Black African soldiers from Nubia (northern Sudan and southern Egypt) and Numidia (Libya).
One significant Numidian people were the Garamante, who were fierce warriors and long resisted Roman conquest, but were later incorporated in the Roman legions and particularly sought as soldiers.
The Garamante (called Tubu now) were Black Africans from the central Sahara. Now the Tubu live in northern Chad, eastern Niger and southern Libya.
They are not usually found north of Marzuk in Fezzan or Kufra in Cyrenaica now, but in Roman times they ranged north to the central coast of Libya and to Ghadames in southern Tunisia.
As well as Garamante and other Africans, there were some Iranic people stationed on this frontier, especially Sarmatians (called Ossets now) and Scythians (Ashkenazi in the Bible) from southern Russia and the Ukraine.

Beethoven and Hitler are two famous examples of this group. It is interesting to imagine Hitler's reaction to someone telling him he probably got his heavy, black hair from Black African ancestry.
Since this was so long ago, with population movement and inter-marriage, all Europeans must have some ancestry from these Black African soldiers.
In sixty generations, a person could leave 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 descendants with just two children per person each generation so long as no descendants married each other.
Obviously, after a time, many descendants will marry each other, but still it works out statistically that most people from that long ago who left descendants at all are ancestors of everyone in Europe today.
The tendency for people to stay in their own community explains why we can see the effects along the Danube and in the Black Forest in the people with black hair and dark eyes but do not see it far afield like Iceland.
The concentration is far greater at the point of origin, but the dispersion radiates out to everywhere given enough time.

21 posted on 02/12/2006 11:06:13 AM PST by blam
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To: zakbrow

The Garamante Family is now in Southern Italy? ;^)


22 posted on 02/12/2006 11:13:19 AM PST by litehaus
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To: phantomworker; blam

Thanks for the further info.


23 posted on 02/12/2006 12:59:13 PM PST by zakbrow (I'm running out of places to bury the bodies.)
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To: Tyche

Excellent article.


24 posted on 02/12/2006 1:04:33 PM PST by Dustbunny (The best sermons are lived, not preached)
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To: zakbrow

Thanks for pointing out the Garamantes civilization. I would have missed it.


25 posted on 02/12/2006 1:08:01 PM PST by phantomworker (If you're not confused, you're not paying attention.)
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To: xcamel

I think Sgt. Pepper had a microwave band. Somethin' like that. Hmm. Must be late, I'm lame.


26 posted on 02/12/2006 6:34:26 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Islam is medieval fascism, and the Koran is a medieval Mein Kampf.)
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To: Graymatter
:') You are too kind. Here's a snip from Herodotus regarding Lake Tritonis, which had declined to marshes by his time.
"Histories"
Book IV "Melpomene"

Herodotus
tr by George Rawlinson
The sea-coast beyond the Lotophagi is occupied by the Machlyans, who use the lotus to some extent, though not so much as the people of whom we last spoke. The Machlyans reach as far as the great river called the Triton, which empties itself into the great lake Tritonis. Here, in this lake, is an island called Phla, which it is said the Lacedaemonians were to have colonised, according to an oracle.

The following is the story as it is commonly told. When Jason had finished building the Argo at the foot of Mount Pelion, he took on board the usual hecatomb, and moreover a brazen tripod. Thus equipped, he set sail, intending to coast round the Peloponnese, and so to reach Delphi. The voyage was prosperous as far as Malea; but at that point a gale of wind from the north came on suddenly, and carried him out of his course to the coast of Libya; where, before he discovered the land, he got among the shallows of Lake Tritonis. As he was turning it in his mind how he should find his way out, Triton (they say) appeared to him, and offered to show him the channel, and secure him a safe retreat, if he would give him the tripod. Jason complying, was shown by Triton the passage through the shallows; after which the god took the tripod, and, carrying it to his own temple, seated himself upon it, and, filled with prophetic fury, delivered to Jason and his companions a long prediction. "When a descendant," he said, "of one of the Argo's crew should seize and carry off the brazen tripod, then by inevitable fate would a hundred Grecian cities be built around Lake Tritonis." The Libyans of that region, when they heard the words of this prophecy, took away the tripod and hid it.

The next tribe beyond the Machlyans is the tribe of the Auseans. Both these nations inhabit the borders of Lake Tritonis, being separated from one another by the river Triton. Both also wear their hair long, but the Machlyans let it grow at the back of the head, while the Auseans have it long in front. The Ausean maidens keep year by year a feast in honour of Minerva, whereat their custom is to draw up in two bodies, and fight with stones and clubs. They say that these are rites which have come down to them from their fathers, and that they honour with them their native goddess, who is the same as the Minerva (Athene) of the Grecians. If any of the maidens die of the wounds they receive, the Auseans declare that such are false maidens. Before the fight is suffered to begin, they have another ceremony. One of the virgins, the loveliest of the number, is selected from the rest; a Corinthian helmet and a complete suit of Greek armour are publicly put upon her; and, thus adorned, she is made to mount into a chariot, and led around the whole lake in a procession. What arms they used for the adornment of their damsels before the Greeks came to live in their country, I cannot say. I imagine they dressed them in Egyptian armour, for I maintain that both the shield and the helmet came into Greece from Egypt. The Auseans declare that Minerva is the daughter of Neptune and the Lake Tritonis -- they say she quarrelled with her father, and applied to Jupiter, who consented to let her be his child; and so she became his adopted daughter. These people do not marry or live in families, but dwell together like the gregarious beasts. When their children are full-grown, they are brought before the assembly of the men, which is held every third month, and assigned to those whom they most resemble...

Thus from Egypt as far as Lake Tritonis Libya is inhabited by wandering tribes, whose drink is milk and their food the flesh of animals. Cow's flesh, however, none of these tribes ever taste, but abstain from it for the same reason as the Egyptians, neither do they any of them breed swine. Even at Cyrene, the women think it wrong to eat the flesh of the cow, honouring in this Isis, the Egyptian goddess, whom they worship both with fasts and festivals. The Barcaean women abstain, not from cow's flesh only, but also from the flesh of swine.

West of Lake Tritonis the Libyans are no longer wanderers, nor do they practise the same customs as the wandering people, or treat their children in the same way. For the wandering Libyans, many of them at any rate, if not all -- concerning which I cannot speak with certainty -- when their children come to the age of four years, burn the veins at the top of their heads with a flock from the fleece of a sheep: others burn the veins about the temples. This they do to prevent them from being plagued in their after lives by a flow of rheum from the head; and such they declare is the reason why they are so much more healthy than other men. Certainly the Libyans are the healthiest men that I know; but whether this is what makes them so, or not, I cannot positively say -- the healthiest certainly they are. If when the children are being burnt convulsions come on, there is a remedy of which they have made discovery. It is to sprinkle goat's water upon the child, who thus treated, is sure to recover. In all this I only repeat what is said by the Libyans.

The rites which the wandering Libyans use in sacrificing are the following. They begin with the ear of the victim, which they cut off and throw over their house: this done, they kill the animal by twisting the neck. They sacrifice to the Sun and Moon, but not to any other god. This worship is common to all the Libyans. The inhabitants of the parts about Lake Tritonis worship in addition Triton, Neptune, and Minerva, the last especially.

27 posted on 02/12/2006 6:46:11 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Islam is medieval fascism, and the Koran is a medieval Mein Kampf.)
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To: Tyche

Very interest ping!


28 posted on 02/13/2006 12:08:03 AM PST by Bellflower (A Brand New Day Is Coming!)
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To: nmh

I, like many, believe in God & Evolution.

Does that make you like me better?


29 posted on 02/13/2006 7:02:47 AM PST by S0122017
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To: zot

Ping.


30 posted on 02/13/2006 3:11:47 PM PST by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
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To: Tyche

Good, if I wait 5000 to 10,000 years the lakefront property I bought there will be worth millions.


31 posted on 02/13/2006 3:14:40 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: GreyFriar

Thanks for the ping. Very interesting.


32 posted on 02/13/2006 10:21:59 PM PST by zot (GWB -- four more years!)
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To: Interesting Times

Thanks for the ping. I found this especially interesting: "A prolonged arid phase from about 70,000 to 12,000 years ago apparently drove humans out of the region, but then the rains returned – along with the people."

The prolonged arid phase from about 70,000 to 12,000 years ago corresponds to the last "ice age" in North America, and the return of the rains corresponds to the melting of the North American ice sheet.

The lack of ice in Africa at that time suggests it wasn't a global ice age, but an arctic ice cap centered on what is now Hudson Bay, Canada.


33 posted on 02/13/2006 10:33:23 PM PST by zot (GWB -- four more years!)
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To: GreyFriar
Here's the source of the information you requested in a FReep mail.

Black Dutch

34 posted on 02/14/2006 7:40:41 AM PST by blam
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To: blam

Thank you.


35 posted on 02/14/2006 9:36:37 AM PST by GreyFriar ((3rd Armored Division -- Spearhead))
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To: zakbrow
There's not an incredible amount known about them because they didn't leave much of a written record (they did write, borrowing the written language from the Berbers). We know that they were black, that they were slave traders, and that they had some sort of historical association with Egypt since they worshipped Egyptian gods and buried their people in tiny pyramids. They were able to hang on so long as the savannahs turned to desert because they also developed what may have been the worlds most elaborate underground irrigation system at the time. Some of their tunnels were miles long and were brilliantly engineered and sloped just right.

There are many indicators that Islam may have been instrumental in their final demise. They were certainly dhimmi's after the Muslim conquest, and the taxes imposed on them would have been devastating for a society that was already on the verge of collapse. Even their irrigation system wasn't keeping up with their needs and many fields were being abandoned for lack of water. When the Muslims imprisoned their king and subjugated their people, it was simply the last blow for an empire that was once so strong that even the Romans couldn't conquer them (though they did try).

If you can get a copy of American Scientist, it has some great photos of the ruins and diagrams of the irrigation systems they used. Many of the sites are faily untouched because of their remoteness, so archaeologists are really just now getting a good look at what these people were actually like.
36 posted on 02/14/2006 9:57:37 AM PST by Arthalion
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To: zot
"... but an arctic ice cap centered on what is now Hudson Bay, Canada."

I've read that it collapsed/melted in the 7-8,000 year time frame.

37 posted on 02/14/2006 9:58:10 AM PST by blam
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To: blam

The end of the Wisconsin Glaciation was about 10,000 years before present or 8,000 BC.


38 posted on 02/14/2006 4:42:23 PM PST by zot (GWB -- four more years!)
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To: zot
"The end of the Wisconsin Glaciation was about 10,000 years before present or 8,000 BC."

Yup. That's what I mean. There were three melt periods, this was the third and last.

39 posted on 02/14/2006 5:29:16 PM PST by blam
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To: blam

Yes, there were three phases of Wisconsin Glaciation, but no total melt-down between them. More important for my point on this thread, there was no ice-age in Africa at any time during the period 70,000 to 10,000 BP which indicates that it wasn't a world-wide ice-age.


40 posted on 02/14/2006 9:21:24 PM PST by zot (GWB -- four more years!)
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To: zot
Haven't you seen anything lately on the newest "Snowball Earth" theory? The entire Earth froze over from pole to pole and it happened at least twice. (Africa included)

There is credible archeology to support it as well.(you'll find it on discovery .com/science channel. Super good documentary aired on this theory as well.

41 posted on 02/14/2006 9:33:48 PM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (M.S.M. Creed: "Truth has no substance until we give it permission! ")
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP

Check the time-frames of the two world-wide freezes.


42 posted on 02/14/2006 9:41:35 PM PST by zot (GWB -- four more years!)
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To: blam; Michael81Dus
Beethoven and Hitler are two famous examples of this group. It is interesting to imagine Hitler's reaction to someone telling him he probably got his heavy, black hair from Black African ancestry.

THe silliest thing about the Nazzis is that the GErmans are among the most ethnically mixed peoples in the world -- they definitely have Slavic and Celtic blood and through the Romans, they have Italic blood. This made them a better people I think -- like an alloy stronger than the base elements -- think bronze or brass.
43 posted on 02/15/2006 5:25:53 AM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Ultra-Catholic)
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To: Cronos

I too believe that an ethnical mix means an improvement of skills. Just look at the United States.


44 posted on 02/15/2006 5:30:59 AM PST by Michael81Dus
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To: Michael81Dus

well, yeah, you look at the English -- The Celts were defeated by the Romans & the Saxons, the Saxons were weak compared to the NOrmans. but with the Norman-Saxon-Celt blood they became world conquerors.


45 posted on 02/15/2006 8:36:29 PM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Ultra-Catholic)
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46 posted on 04/16/2006 2:39:04 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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47 posted on 03/27/2008 11:01:30 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/______________________Profile updated Saturday, March 1, 2008)
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48 posted on 06/03/2012 3:04:15 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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49 posted on 09/21/2012 5:03:25 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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