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Michigan Senate: Stabenow with Big Lead
Rasmussen Reports ^ | January 23, 2006

Posted on 01/23/2006 7:14:02 PM PST by Clintonfatigued

Debbie Stabenow (D) 56% Michael Bouchard (R) 31% RasmussenReports.com

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Debbie Stabenow (D) 54% Keith Butler (R) 34% RasmussenReports.com

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Debbie Stabenow (D) 58% Jerry Zandstra (R) 30% RasmussenReports.com

(Excerpt) Read more at rasmussenreports.com ...


TOPICS: Politics/Elections; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: 109th; 2006; stabenow

1 posted on 01/23/2006 7:14:02 PM PST by Clintonfatigued
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To: Dan from Michigan; fieldmarshaldj; AuH2ORepublican; CSM; Kuksool; zbigreddogz; MassachusettsGOP; ...

Bad news ping.


2 posted on 01/23/2006 7:15:32 PM PST by Clintonfatigued (Sam Alito Deserves To Be Confirmed)
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To: Clintonfatigued

Was this poll conducted by weight?


3 posted on 01/23/2006 7:15:42 PM PST by zzen01
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: Clintonfatigued

I don't see how the Senator in a State that is such an economic basket case can take credit for anything, and I can't see why the voters would have any desire to return her to the Senate.

I guess that incompetent voters elect incompetent politicians.


5 posted on 01/23/2006 7:16:26 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: Brilliant

what economic message is the republican challenger putting forth?


6 posted on 01/23/2006 7:17:52 PM PST by oceanview
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To: Clintonfatigued

Joe Scarboruough doing a piece now on the Katherine Harris campaign mess.


7 posted on 01/23/2006 7:19:01 PM PST by oceanview
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To: oceanview

Don't know, but just about anything beats socialism.


8 posted on 01/23/2006 7:20:41 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: Brilliant

What I find ironic is that Michael Bouchard was lured into the race because he was perceived to be more electable, yet he's running weaker than Keith Butler. Something to think about.


9 posted on 01/23/2006 7:24:33 PM PST by Clintonfatigued (Sam Alito Deserves To Be Confirmed)
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To: Clintonfatigued

Get Stabmenow in a debate with Keith Butler. It will be no contest.

Don't know about Bouchard.


10 posted on 01/23/2006 7:25:51 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: Clintonfatigued

Maybe he's running weaker because he's perceived as being more to the middle in a conservative party. Put him on the ballot, and it might work to his advantage, though.


11 posted on 01/23/2006 7:27:01 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: Clintonfatigued

The voters in certain cities in Michigan are stupid. Anybody hear how the woman who oversaw the vote counting in Detroit was indicted (I think) for voting irregularities? Anyone ever notice how in the past Detroit always waited until after the rest of the state reported? That just couldn't possibly have anything to do with manufacturing votes.


12 posted on 01/23/2006 7:27:11 PM PST by MichiganConservative (Government IS the problem.)
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To: oceanview

None, as of yet. I'd rather see Keith Butler get the nomination.

Michigan's GOP has been pretty pathetic. The legislature is under their control and they *refuse* to lay any of the state's economic mess at Granholm's feet. She panders to Detroit and the unions, ignores the economic engine of Oakland County, the state is the ONLY one that's still hemmoraging jobs, yet it looks like the Canadian Trash will win re-election.

Stabenow, Hillary's other head, will probably win, too.

Things could be changing for the better, but not for a few years. The western side of the state -- Grand Rapids -- could have greater pull since it's population is gaining ground. Anything that helps keep money from being thrown into the black hole of Detroit is fine with me.


13 posted on 01/23/2006 7:32:04 PM PST by Kieri (Midwestern Snark Claw and Feather Club Member)
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To: MichiganConservative
The voters in certain cities in Michigan are stupid. Anybody hear how the woman who oversaw the vote counting in Detroit was indicted (I think) for voting irregularities? Anyone ever notice how in the past Detroit always waited until after the rest of the state reported? That just couldn't possibly have anything to do with manufacturing votes.

Yep. That's Debbie Curry for ya. She was voted OUT because the Detroit Free Press and News actually *reported* on the shennanigans in her office, her defiance of a judicial court order, seniors with dementia voting, etc.

Oh, she blamed the GOP, too. I kid you not.

14 posted on 01/23/2006 7:34:43 PM PST by Kieri (Midwestern Snark Claw and Feather Club Member)
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To: ConservativeGreek; Savage Beast; Howlin; NormsRevenge; doug from upland; Sub-Driver; ...

I think that Keith Butler could be helped by this poll. He runs the most strongly of the GOP candidates in the race.


15 posted on 01/23/2006 7:52:12 PM PST by Clintonfatigued (Sam Alito Deserves To Be Confirmed)
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To: Clintonfatigued

If Michigan ever needed a conservative, life-cherishing, business-supporting, republic-honoring senator, it is now.


16 posted on 01/23/2006 7:52:54 PM PST by polymuser (Losing, like flooding, brings rats to the surface.)
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To: Kieri

Thanks. I couldn't remember her name and I'm too lazy to look it up right now.


17 posted on 01/23/2006 7:54:27 PM PST by MichiganConservative (Government IS the problem.)
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To: Aussie Dasher

Here's more Senate election information.


18 posted on 01/23/2006 8:04:38 PM PST by Clintonfatigued (Sam Alito Deserves To Be Confirmed)
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To: Clintonfatigued

Stabenow is great with consituent services. Give her office a call, and those staffers will go to hell and back to help you out. If Spence Abraham would've done services like that he'd still be our Senator.

Stabenow is awful in front of a camera. She does come off as a person who cares, but when speaking to a group she doesn't even regurgitate Dem speaking points well.

She definitely relies on that Dem unholy aliance - big labor, big welfare, liberal college towns, etc.

The sad commentary is that, aside from Engler's notable 12 year run as Gov, we've not had any credible state-wide candidates emerge from the primordial political ooze. Part of the reason is the STUPID term limits we've got here, which churns up the political office holders so we can't figure out who's emerging as serious talent.



19 posted on 01/23/2006 8:04:57 PM PST by TWohlford
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To: Clintonfatigued

Thanks for that!


20 posted on 01/23/2006 8:05:49 PM PST by Aussie Dasher (The Great Ronald Reagan & John Paul II - Heaven's Dream Team!)
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To: Brilliant
Feel free to blame the RNC. (RINO headquarters).  If you get flamed I've got an asbestos suit and a rather big blowtorch ready to go on the offensive, I've got your back.
21 posted on 01/23/2006 8:49:00 PM PST by quantim (If the Constitution were perfect it wouldn't have included the Senate.)
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To: Brilliant

"I don't see how the Senator in a State that is such an economic basket case can take credit for anything, and I can't see why the voters would have any desire to return her to the Senate.

I guess that incompetent voters elect incompetent politicians."


Michigan is full of Islamic voters.


22 posted on 01/23/2006 9:17:07 PM PST by Sweetjustusnow (Oust the IslamoCommies here and abroad.)
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To: Clintonfatigued
What were the voter totals when she last won election?

Too bad there isn't enough grass-roots soapboxing to make a difference. I thought I saw a map of the 2004 election that colored most of the state red, with a big patch of blue around Detroit, Marquette, possibly Ann Arbor. I suspect that if the people in Michigan who own guns and hunt were informed of her position the tally would be different.

Stabenow is against our First Amendment rights; she voted for BCFR. Stabenow is against our Second Aamendment rights; she voted against Protection of Legal Commerce in Arms. The implications of those two issues alone should be enough to influence gun owners, hunters, as well as their families. The implication of the vote totals is that gun owners and hunters are not made aware of her record.

I imagine it would be easy to inform the electorate with a concerted effort on the part of a vocal and articulae few across the state.

Throw in her record on environmental issues and you probably gather voters concerned about their property rights.

The media isn't going to tell us the truth; it is high time those who care about those issues speak, and speak often. A letter to the editor can be written fairly easily. The NRA-ILA website has helpful links to write an informed letter.

23 posted on 01/24/2006 5:34:07 AM PST by Simo Hayha (An education is incomplete without instruction in the use of arms to defend oneself against harm.)
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To: Sweetjustusnow; Brilliant; quantim
Feel free to blame the RNC. (RINO headquarters).

Yep. Islamics and liberals are also on the same page. Blame stupid white and stupid black people too.

Also blame William Clay Ford Jr. for all of his leftist ideologies. His great grandfather practically built the industrial base of the state. It sure is going down in flames now and has been since Old Man Henry Ford died and the 1960's crowd came in with the dope, hashish, marijuana, etc...

I was born and raised in Dearborn. Michigan is a beautiful state, I love it dearly for how I remember it. Sorry you still have to live there, but it is fading fast I hate to say from the looks of the last time I visited four years ago. I can't believe that idiot Conyers is still in Congress!

24 posted on 01/24/2006 6:26:49 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Clintonfatigued; Dan from Michigan; JohnnyZ; fieldmarshaldj; Kuksool; Coop; William Creel

Obviously, I'd rather have Stabenow at below 50%, but the poll shows the race to be winnable if we play our cards right. Reverend Keith Butler does the best among the three Republicans, holding Stabenow to 54% and trailing by "only" 20%, as opposed to by 25% for Bouchard and by 28% for Zandstra. It would be interesting to know if the poll shows Butler reducing Stabenow's margins in Detroit and southern Oakland County.

Right now, we have three candidates who need more resources to make their case statewide. I have long thought that Butler is our most promising candidate, since any reduction in the RAT share of the black vote (or even a reduction in black turnout, which could happen if blacks don't feel energized by Stabenow's appeal when she's running against a black candidate who shares many of theur values) would cause the state to go from RAT-leaning to GOP-leaning.

I would hate for this Senate race to slip away.


25 posted on 01/24/2006 6:50:22 AM PST by AuH2ORepublican (http://auh2orepublican.blogspot.com/)
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To: TWohlford
She definitely relies on that Dem unholy aliance - big labor, big welfare, liberal college towns, etc.

Your "etc." are the dead, multiple, and non-existing voters?

26 posted on 01/24/2006 6:56:33 AM PST by ASA Vet (Those who know don't talk, those who talk don't know.)
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To: Kieri

Keith Butler would be a terrible nomination. I have had discussions with both him and Jerry Zandstra. Zandstra is heads and tails above Butler. Butler seems to think he is entitled to the nomination due to his demographic draw. Zandstra has true conservative principles, not just the "moral" conservatism.


27 posted on 01/24/2006 7:08:00 AM PST by CSM
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To: TWohlford
Stabenow is great with consituent services.

They hang up on me, and I don't even swear.

28 posted on 01/24/2006 7:09:53 AM PST by Dan from Michigan ("What does a guy have to do to get fired around here?" - Darryl Rogers, former Lions Coach)
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To: AuH2ORepublican

"I have long thought that Butler is our most promising candidate, since any reduction in the RAT share of the black vote...."

The inner city Detroit vote will be energized by Butler to vote for Debbie. They consider him a sellout and will do anything for that "uncle tom" to go down in flames. Even his own parishinors are against him.

EVERYONE, please stay off the Butler band wagon. It is a house of cards that will come crashing down.


29 posted on 01/24/2006 7:15:07 AM PST by CSM
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To: CSM

"The inner city Detroit vote will be energized by Butler to vote for Debbie. They consider him a sellout and will do anything for that "uncle tom" to go down in flames. Even his own parishinors are against him."



Do you have any evidence of this? Remember, Butler actually got elected to the Detroit City Council a few years back, the only Republican to be elected there since before World War II. And I don't know what "parishinors" are, but assuming that you mean "parishioners," you should not jump to conclusions based on anecdotal evidence from die-hard Democrats. Of course that many of his parishioners will vote for Stabenow---they're Democrats! But if he can get, say, 35% of the vote among Oakland County blacks and 25% among Detroit blacks, Stabenow would be unable to make up the votes elsewhere and would lose.


30 posted on 01/24/2006 7:38:27 AM PST by AuH2ORepublican (http://auh2orepublican.blogspot.com/)
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To: polymuser

Too bad that a majority of folks in Michigan don't want that.


31 posted on 01/24/2006 7:39:47 AM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: CSM

"Butler seems to think he is entitled to the nomination due to his demographic draw. Zandstra has true conservative principles, not just the "moral" conservatism."



Sure, Butler's electability is one of his main assets, but he's a real conservative, no doubt about it. Zandstra is a true conservative, but so is Butler. Here is Butler's issue position on taxes and economic growth (from his website):

Our goal should be a single flat rate that is as low as possible, but any changes that reduce the rates and number of rates is making progress and will produce economic growth. We should greatly simplify the tax code. We need a United States Senator who supports lowering the tax burden on working families and American business. I believe the following should be our goals when changing the tax structure.

Our tax code should be pro-growth. It should reward entrepreneurs, and it should give families incentives to save and invest.

Corporate taxes should be lowered, to enable American businesses to better compete in the global economy and keep working men and women of America employed and well paid.
Our tax code should be greatly simplified and shortened. I believe we should take radical steps to adopt a flatter, fairer tax policy. Taxpayers spend too much time preparing annual tax forms.

The law should allow exemptions only for the following:

for children (because children are a valuable resource)
for elderly dependents (because caretakers should be compensated)
for college students (to incentivize higher education)
for military service (because of the personal sacrifice)
for home mortgages (to encourage home ownership)
for charitable giving (because non-profit organizations are doing essential work deserving of support)

Senator Stabenow was opposed to President Bush's tax cuts and now she is opposed to the extension of those cuts. Her tax policy is the wrong prescription for America's economy.

http://www.keithabutler.com/taxpolicy.asp


Here is Butler on legal reform:

We live in the most litigious society in the world. Ironically, this is making us less free than we used to be. We need commonsense legal reform that includes tort reform and medical liability reform. We need to dramatically reduce the number of fraudulent and frivolous lawsuits in this country.

Most importantly we need more Judges on the bench who interpret the law as written, not Judges who legislate from the bench.

http://www.keithabutler.com/legalreform.asp


Here is Butler on the right to keep and bear arms:

Keith Butler has always supported our 2nd amendment right to bear arms.

Keith is a member of the National Rifle Association and a lifelong hunter who personally owns shotguns, rifles and pistols. He has had the opportunity to hunt all over the country and the world.

Keith Butler was an early supporter of concealed weapons "shall issue" legislation. Keith saw first hand how prior to the "shall issue" bill, permits were often restricted to people with connections to the local officials who made the permit decisions.

Early in the debate over the "shall issue" legislation, many elected officials including Republican law enforcement officials, opposed the bill. They made dire predictions of increased violence. None of these predictions have come true in Michigan or any of the other states that have enacted "shall issue" legislation.

Keith has been a concealed weapons permit holder since the early 1990's. Keith has always felt that law-abiding citizens should be treated equally and not have to rely on whom they know in the government.

"The right to bear arms is as important as the right of free speech, the right to assemble, freedom of the press, and freedom of religion. The founding fathers knew how important it was to give its citizens this right to bear arms. It is through our right to bear arms that the citizenry can protect itself from an out of control government. I will always defend our right to bear arms and as your United States Senator I will fight any effort to restrict, in any way, this right."

Keith Butler


Click on the link below to read Keith's interview with the Michigan Citizens for Responsible Gun Owners:

www.mcrgopac.org/interview_butler.html.

"Unlike some candidates, Keith has always been a supporter of our 2nd amendment right to bear arms. He was a staunch supporter of the CCW "shall issue" legislation when many in the state and even our party were opposed."

State Senator Alan Cropsey

http://www.keithabutler.com/secondamendment.ASP


Here is Butler on immigration:

I fully support legal immigration. Immigrants, as we all know, have been a wonderful blessing to this country. All Americans benefit from the flow of new thoughts and new ideas into our culture and we should encourage those who wish to preserve and recognize their unique heritages.

However, I feel strongly that coming to the United States means that you must accept that some changes on your part are necessary - we should not be forced to radically alter our society to meet the demands of each new immigrant. People must understand that American life and American business is based on the English language. Today's immigrants, just as the immigrants that came before them, can only be successful in our society by learning English and joining their new countrymen in our wonderful melting pot. We should help provide the tools to learn our language, but our schools must be based on English-only courses.

As for the seemingly endless flow of illegal immigrants - it must be stopped. We need to beef up our border patrols and increase our use of technology to stop illegal immigration. We need to crack down ruthlessly on those who prey on these people by engaging in human trafficking and we need to punish employers who knowingly and repeatedly take advantage of them.

Recently Congresswoman Candice Miller introduced a resolution supporting a constitutional amendment to keep illegal immigrants from counting in the reapportioning of congressional seats. What could make more sense than this - I fully support Congresswoman Miller efforts on behalf of Michigan and the nation.

http://www.keithabutler.com/immigration.asp


32 posted on 01/24/2006 7:46:58 AM PST by AuH2ORepublican (http://auh2orepublican.blogspot.com/)
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To: Clintonfatigued

Why is this? A do nothing, lightweight Senator with a 20 plus point lead? I guess it's name recognition, blue state, union nonsense. They kept sending Paul Simon back. And Obama is an untouchable, I guess.


33 posted on 01/24/2006 7:53:43 AM PST by Inwoodian
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To: quantim

blame the republicans? no way, they have nothing to do with budget issues...
well, except for the 30%+ raise they gave themselves a few years back.. and their trying to tax themselves into prosperity.. and their devotion to the auto unions.. and the jobs cuts that cost us millions in fed money..


34 posted on 01/24/2006 7:54:48 AM PST by absolootezer0 ("My God, why have you forsaken us.. no wait, its the liberals that have forsaken you... my bad")
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To: Inwoodian

Sorry 'bout that . Brain freeze. Thinking Illinois.


35 posted on 01/24/2006 7:55:09 AM PST by Inwoodian
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To: AuH2ORepublican

"Our goal should be a single flat rate that is as low as possible....." Then "The law should allow exemptions only for the following: "

Well, he really isn't for a single flat rate, is he?

"Here is Butler on legal reform:"

Then he says nothing.

That is part of my problem with him. I attempted a dialogue with him specifically about taxes and legal reform. He wasn't interested in even discussing them. Due to those attempts at discussion I get all of his communications. I am not impressed and I don't see a true committment to core fiscally conservative issues.


36 posted on 01/24/2006 8:05:51 AM PST by CSM
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To: CSM

Most flat-tax plans allow exemptions. I recall Phil Gramm's plan from 1996 (when he ran for President) specifically allowing the mortgage deduction, and both his plan and Steve Forbes's exempted the first $40,000 or so in earnings (which would rise for people with dependents) from the tax.

I think Butler could certainly flesh out his positions a little more on some issues, but the election is over 10 months away. The point is, Butler is a conservative across the board, not just on "moral issues."


37 posted on 01/24/2006 8:46:39 AM PST by AuH2ORepublican (http://auh2orepublican.blogspot.com/)
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To: AuH2ORepublican

I suppose I just have a bad taste in my mouth after my discussions with him. I just didn't get the impression that I could trust him. In addition, I support the FairTax and I know that Zandstra is now a FairTaxer too.


38 posted on 01/24/2006 9:19:44 AM PST by CSM
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To: TWohlford
Part of the reason is the STUPID term limits we've got here, which churns up the political office holders so we can't figure out who's emerging as serious talent.

Amen to that. Term limits don't work in the real world. They just make the unelected professional bureaucrats more powerful.

39 posted on 01/24/2006 10:16:54 AM PST by polymuser (Losing, like flooding, brings rats to the surface.)
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To: CSM

I'm a big supporter of the FairTax, too; I think we should get rid of the income tax altogether. But I also want to make abortion illegal, and adopt a Federal Marriage Amendment, and plenty of other things, and I think Butler would increase our odds of achieving those things, since (i) I think he has a better chance of winning, and (ii) as a black conservative, he would be a better spokesman for getting blacks around the nation to support those goals.


40 posted on 01/24/2006 11:12:21 AM PST by AuH2ORepublican (http://auh2orepublican.blogspot.com/)
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To: AuH2ORepublican

You're very impressed with the Reverand Butler (who's a real reverand, in contrast to a better-known Civil Rights leader who only uses the title).

I still have doubts about Butler's electability, but I object to the sneaky, back-handed way that Elizabeth Dole & Company lured Michael Bouchard into the race. So I'm for Keith Butler on that principal alone.


41 posted on 01/24/2006 4:05:21 PM PST by Clintonfatigued (Sam Alito Deserves To Be Confirmed)
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To: Kieri

Is that my dear women: Hows a bout a date?


42 posted on 01/25/2006 9:37:10 AM PST by Rhadaghast (Yeshua haMashiach hu Adonai Tsidkenu)
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To: Rhadaghast

Very funny, DH. I want a steak!


43 posted on 01/25/2006 2:29:12 PM PST by Kieri (Midwestern Snark Claw and Feather Club Member)
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To: AuH2ORepublican

1) Zandstra is 100% on board with the FairTax.
2) Abortion is no longer up to the legislature. It is left to the supreme court.
3) Any ammendment to the constitution is dang near impossible at this point in time.

Keep in mind the only thing the Senate can really effect is fiscal policies.


44 posted on 01/25/2006 7:53:05 PM PST by CSM
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To: Clintonfatigued

Geez. I know it is still early, but it is depressing to see a lack of motivation in these states. We should be able to pick up seats in Florida, Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, and Washington easily; and have some close races in North Dakota, Nebraska, and New Mexico, but our recruitment sucks.

Feh. Maybe something will happen in the next few months.


45 posted on 01/25/2006 7:59:49 PM PST by RabidBartender
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To: Clintonfatigued

46 posted on 03/15/2006 8:37:43 AM PST by OB1kNOb (America is the land of the free BECAUSE of the BRAVE !!)
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