Tell that to the Israelis.
Posted on 02/07/2006 9:59:00 AM PST by boryeulb
There are laws now in place to keep illegals from working, I would have to see them enforced before I get fired up about new laws.
If a fence is a pipe dream, then solving the border issues will not be possible. A fence will slow illegal traffic to a manageable number, then enforcement is possible. The border is now in reality undefined in most areas. Enforcement is spread out willy nilly in hope of catching what they can. A fence would allow enforcement to concentrate on the actual border, so for that reason would be more effective.
I have lived on the border over 30 years and am living with the results of many failed plans. If the government is so sure they can close the border without a fence, and make it impossible for illegals to work here without documents, then they need to prove that part of the plan works before they move foreward with any plan to allow more in. For years I thought the problems could be solved without a fence, I am now convinced otherwise.
I agree with you Tammy. We need to build that damn wall or the immigration policies will not ever change.
I also agree that more should be done to enforce the laws currently in place.
No I am not. If an illegal crosses the border, they are on US soil. The Posse Comitatus Act prevents the military from performing law enforcement duties on US soil, therefore they have no authority to arrest them. This whole discussion has nothing to do with my sentiments towards Bush, I disagree with some of his plans as much as you do...I definitely do not agree with his immigration plan. Here is a summary of my argument...
FACT: Hayworth KNOWS Bush's plan was DOA.
FACT: Hayworth is spewing that crap to sell his book.
FACT: I don't appreciate that at all.
If he wants to push his own damn plan, fine. However, for Hayworth to state that Bush's plan is somehow inevitable unless the people rise up against Bush is what is truly disengenuous. The rest, such as your "international border" comment are just semantics. Y'all can go on ranting all you want, but the facts don't change...Bush submitted his plan twice, Congress rejected it, therefore it is up to Congress work out a plan of their own and get it passed.
I can hardly wait for MNJohnnie to finish up with that Rush Limbaugh thread he's been so busy with today, and comment on Rep. Hayworth's legislation, the legislation Johnnie claims doesn't exist.
First of all, your points are wrong, you don't have a clue. Bush is President, not king...there are limitations to his power that apparently you cannot grasp. Secondly, speaking of calling names...I distinctly remember someone accusing me of sympathetic to illegals (that would be you). And finally, I am still here...I haven't run anywhere, I've been here on this forum a heck of alot longer than you and am well known for the research that goes into my posts that are backed up by facts, so don't play that game. You can't seem to carry on a rational conversation, it is like talking to a drunk. What's the point in discussing this with you further if you refuse to face the facts presented? I have more pleasant things to do, like going to get my teeth pulled, (literally, I have a dental appointment at 3:30). I will be back, however, I just won't be engaging with...how did you put it...oh yeah, "the likes of you". Goodbye.
And I told you - any plan that comes out of Congress is going to get watered down by RINOs who got their arms twisted by the administration. Hayworth & Tancredo aren't stupid, that is why they're keeping the heat on the President so that it doesn't turn into another fraudulent amnesty scheme.
Tell that to Bush. He's just proposed $247 million dollars in the budget for a new massive guest worker/amnesty program so apparently he's anticipating something you believe is a dead horse.
Sorry, borders are international territories.
Therefore, the President is obligated to send in the military.
Border Patrol agents have been shot at repeatedly by Mexican military personell and violent drug/coyote smugglers. State and local law enforcement are hopelessly outmatched.
Amazing, isn't it? Evidently some people think if you say it enough times, it will be true.
Hayworth for senator.
Oh, please, tell that to Bush. He's pushing it like it's gospel. And the money is behind him. If that's the best you can come up with for a "Lie" by Hayworth, you're parsing just like Bush.
Tell that to the Israelis.
You have to concede Howlin that the Posse Comitatus Act has a huge loophole. Obviously, I'm not in favor of military incursions into states too. But where does it end or begin? A boundary with another foreign country cannot solely be a state's responsibility. All I'm saying is that there has to be a defined zone of area where the military are allowed to patrol - and it should only be as a stop-gap measure anyway, until more Border Patrol agents are trained and technicalities related to the PCA are worked out among the states and feds.
Even beyond that, why do we even have a Congress? Guess the whole idea of being a Constitutional Republic just did not work out and we should just convert over to the Presidential Dictatorship some Americans apparently seem to think we all ready have.
Huh? "Even beyond" what?
The US-Mexican border is "just a tad" longer than the sum of the various Israeli borders. Without strong laws and ACTIONS to discourage the things that encourage aliens to come here illegally, a fence will prove 1) expensive and 2) useless.
Key among these is strong enforcement actions on businesses who hire them (knowlingly OR unknowingly). The owners of said businesses should face stiff fines AND prison time.
Well, I certainly agree with the above--but a fence by itself will help nothing. The traffic will simply move to other areas of the border.
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