Skip to comments.First Americans May Have Been European
Posted on 02/19/2006 9:08:52 PM PST by anymouse
ST. LOUISThe first humans to spread across North America may have been seal hunters from France and Spain.
This runs counter to the long-held belief that the first human entry into the Americas was a crossing of a land-ice bridge that spanned the Bering Strait about 13,500 years ago.
The new thinking was outlined here Sunday at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science.
The tools dont match
Recent studies have suggested that the glaciers that helped form the bridge connecting Siberia and Alaska began receding around 17,000 to 13,000 years ago, leaving very little chance that people walked from one continent to the other.
Also, when archaeologist Dennis Stanford of the Smithsonian Institution places American spearheads, called Clovis points, side-by-side with Siberian points, he sees a divergence of many characteristics.
Instead, Stanford said today, Clovis points match up much closer with Solutrean style tools, which researchers date to about 19,000 years ago. This suggests that the American people making Clovis points made Solutrean points before that.
Theres just one problem with this hypothesisSolutrean toolmakers lived in France and Spain. Scientists know of no land-ice bridge that spanned that entire gap.
The lost hunting party
Stanford has an idea for how humans crossed the Atlantic, thoughboats. Art from that era indicates that Solutrean populations in northern Spain were hunting marine animals, such as seals, walrus, and tuna.
They may have even made their way into the floating ice chunks that unite immense harp seal populations in Canada and Europe each year. Four million seals, Stanford said, would look like a pretty good meal to hungry European hunters, who might have ventured into the ice flows much the same way that the Inuit in Alaska and Greenland do today.
Inuit use large, open hunting boats constructed from animal skins for longer trips or big hunts. These boats, called umiaq, can hold a dozen adults, as well as several children, dead seals or walruses, and even dog-sled teams. Inuit have been building these boats for thousands of years, and Stanford believes that Solutrean people may have used a similar design.
Its possible that some groups of these hunters ventured out as far as Iceland, where they may have gotten caught up in the prevailing currents and were carried to North America.
You get three boats loaded up like this and you would have a viable population, Stanford said. You could actually get a whole bunch of people washing up on Nova Scotia.
Some scientists believe that the Solutrean peoples were responsible for much of the cave art in Europe. Opponents of Stanfords work ask why, then, would these people stop producing art once they made it to North America?
I dont know, Stanford said. But youre looking at a long distance inland, 100 miles or so, before they would get to caves to do art in.
Well in that case we can put Columbus back in a position of honor.
I dislike sloppy writing. Of course, the author means "what is now Spain and France."
Who were the French running away from way back then?
Because people struggling for survival in the wilderness on an uninhabited continent don't produce art.
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So does this mean, the next time I fill out a job application, I can refer to myself as a "Native American?"
Some European names for the first Native Americans?
Big Chief Government
Oh course they were and the johnny-come-lately Asians, massacred them all and now want to hide that fact!
The forms I've seen lately, mostly govt forms, now list "American Indian" or somesuch.
Before, I checked off Native American every chance I got. Hell, I was born here.
Just wait until open minded, accepting and tolerant professors from universities across the country hear this. They're going to be SO PISSED.
related (mostly in chrono order):
Study: New World Map Is a Forgery
AP | 7-29-02 | DIANE SCARPONI
Posted on 07/29/2002 7:41:39 PM EDT by Pharmboy
14 posted on 07/29/2002 9:34:01 PM EDT by crystalk
Discover | 2-1999 | Karen Wright
Posted on 10/07/2002 12:57:05 AM EDT by blam
Discovery casts doubt on Bering land bridge theory
Contra Costa Times | July 30, 2003 | Allison Heinrichs
Posted on 08/04/2003 3:50:12 PM EDT by NukeMan
Edited on 04/13/2004 6:31:41 AM EDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
Immigrants From The Other Side (Clovis Is Solutrean?)
CSFA | 11-3-2003 | Dennis Sanford
Posted on 11/02/2003 7:11:21 PM EST by blam
Iberia, Not Siberia
Team Atlantis | 12-6-2000 | Michael A Arbuthnot
Posted on 12/21/2003 12:48:22 PM EST by blam
The Relationship Between The Basque And Ainu
High Speed Plus | 1996 | Edo Nyland
Posted on 06/25/2004 6:44:16 PM EDT by blam
72 posted on 12/27/2004 4:59:30 PM EST by peterpanther
79 posted on 02/26/2005 8:58:26 AM EST by peterpanther
Kennewick Man, Meet Your Distant Cousins
Seattle Times | 11-7-2005 | Kate Riley
Posted on 11/07/2005 6:24:22 PM EST by blam
Why not, Ward Churchill did!
Good answer... Also worth noting is that the people who did the boating, hunting and fishing were not necessarily the same people who made the cave paintings. Specialization had advantages, even in early human societies. Or did they all do everything? Some Americans build jet planes. So, if a small company of American hunters were to be stranded in a remote area, would they be expected to build jet planes there?
Thanks. It's too late for me to go looking for those posts.
IIRC, these people left there before the modern French had reached what is now France and made surrender into an art form.
Archaeology Magazine | March/April 2003 | Colleen P. Popson
Posted on 02/22/2003 12:06:38 PM EST by blam
I drink firewater and speak with forked tounge.
I recall reading of this link on another thread in the Religion forum. They'll have a hard time proving European descent from artifacts when there is DNA evidence to support otherwise. My point is NOT to start a discussion about mormonism but it was part of the thread I found it on and I felt the comment at the bottom was useful in supporting the use of the link as the link didn't seem to have anything to do with the article.
DNA PROVES MORMON FAITH BASELESS -- NATIVE INDIANS HAVE NO JEWISH BLOOD -- DNA CAME FROM ASIA
Large predators with poor senses of smell or taste. ;-)
Long ago, Oscar Wilde said America was discovered before 1492, "but it was hushed up."
Wait til Mecha hears this.
You'd have to get quite a bit further west (Greenland) to get in the prevailing currents to end up in Nova Scotia.
Conservatives hunted. Liberals painted.
A preliminary report from some of the Kennewick man researchers is supposed to be released this month
When I learned about Indians coming from the Bering Strait as a kid, I never believed it. Too simplistic for me. I tend to believe that the first Americans came by boat from the South Pacific and went north. The second wave would be from Europe, Cro-Magnon man. I remember reading Mayans, Incas, and Mapuches have the same rate of Rh negative blood as Basques, Celts, Guanches, and Berbers. In fact, when Spaniards encountered Incas, they reported seeing faired skinned and red haired people among Incas. They also found red haired mummies in Peru.
They'll have a hard time proving European descent from artifacts when there is DNA evidence to support otherwise.That doesn't appear to make any sense, because the artifacts don't have DNA (presumably; I'd guess Og's skin cells probably flaked off while using the tools, but are unlikely to have been preserved).
Tangled strands of time...the work of the Paabo team is evaluated uncritically by Stringer and McKie in their article, essentially because it tends to support their biases and preconceptions about modern human origins. Other interpretations are possible. It should be noted first that molecular clock models are full of questionable assumptions. Leaving aside differences of opinion about the rate of base pair substitutions, how to calibrate a molecular clock, and whether or not mitochondrial DNA mutations are neutral, the fact that the Neanderthal sequence (and it should be kept in mind that there is - to date - only one) differs from those of modern humans does not resolve the question of whether or not moderns and Neanderthals were different species... A more convincing test of the implications of the Paabo data would be to sequence mitochondrial DNA from an unambiguously modern early European or better yet from alleged archaic and modem human fossils from the Israeli cave sites of Skhul and Qafzeh (supposedly modern) and Kebara and Tabun (supposedly Neanderthal). If the Israeli fossils all show differences with modern humans of the same order of magnitude of those between Neanderthal and moderns, that would be compelling evidence that all Upper Pleistocene hominids diverge from moderns by about the amount (evidence for continuity), and that the distinction between Neanderthals and moderns in the Levant at least is utterly without foundation... Those who would argue - like Stringer and Mickie - that Neanderthals became extinct without issue must show how it could have occurred without leaving traces of disjunction in the archaeological record and in the fossils themselves.
by G.A. Clark
Friday August 8, 1997
original, extinct link
Very witty, Wilde. ;')
Instead, Stanford said today, Clovis points match up much closer with Solutrean style tools, which researchers date to about 19,000 years ago. This suggests that the American people making Clovis points made Solutrean points before that. Theres just one problem with this hypothesis -- Solutrean toolmakers lived in France and Spain. Scientists know of no land-ice bridge that spanned that entire gap.The other problem is the gap in time between Solutrean points and Clovis, but that will be solved in the coming years as archaeologists dig deeper, and possibly as they explore the continental shelves.
I'm sure we'll see it posted soon.
I suspect the ancient's brain had pretty much the same abilities as ours and their knowledge concerning the world they lived in, was in a way, just sophisticated as ours.
We are not big risk takers because we don't have to be, but we see Cubans risking their lives on a regular basis to get here and other peoples do the same. I would think ancient man would take similar risks. I think it's just logical to assume that ancient man would look for a better place to live if need be.
|Asian (in USA - General)||40||28||27||5|
|Blackfoot (N. Am. Indian)||17||82||0||1|
|Indians (India - General)||37||22||33||7|
|Indians (USA - General)||79||16||4||1|
|Navajo (N. Am. Indian)||73||27||0||0|
|Papuas (New Guinea)||41||27||23||9|
|United Kingdom (GB)||47||42||8||3|
A Contribution to the Physical Anthropology and Population Genetics
L. Beckman - *as revised by BloodBook.com 12/07/2000; 07/22/2001; 04/10/2002; 05/22/2004.
There is also the MN system (which is separate from ABO, but very rare; so rare, I've never found anything online, although I've not tried lately) and a mutation from A called Bombay Syndrome (this may not be the correct name).Diego blood systema human blood typing system in which there are 2 distinct types: Diego positive and Diego negative. An individual inherits a Diego type from his or her parents and does not change it throughout life. Apparently, the only people in the world who are Diego positive are some Native Americans and East Asians.
by Dennis O'Neil
corrected URL (didn't notice it was there before I clicked Post):
1. We know exactly squat about what man was doing, let alone how and where, in any period more than 5,000 years ago.
And 2. What we've been trying to tell ourselves for the last 1,500 years what went on in the distant past is not only egregiously wrong, but has obscured what did go on and hampered our ability to see the truth.
There's just too damn many Zahi Hawas' in the world spreading lies in the name of political correctness.
No way, they were Chinese!
Undeniably brought the world the best system of government and justice - even if in some parts of the world is at first only appied to him.
Big Chief, Government, Surren-Deer, Whining Bear
I would be careful with insulting names since most of you guys are the offspring of European immigrants (-no matter if they went to America 13.000 or 50 years ago).
Warm greetings from "old" Europe
Alright, tell us about the "O" blood type...and all the other ones while you are at it...if you would please.
What amazes me about this entire issue of migrations is that todays pc crowd insists on only one group or another having migrated to North America. As we should know, man in general is always curious. This fact would alert us to the distinct possibility of many groups arriving here during the past thousands of years. It is a distinct and probable. Oceans have been used for a long time, and most societies had some kind of boatcraft. But, Columbus is rightly credited, since his was the voyage which seemed to have staying power.
Looking a current map.
Obviously it would have been easier to travel via the North Equatorial Current. This is what Columbus did, no doubt earlier man did it too. Easy to travel up rivers along the Gulf Coast and end up in all kinds of places. Or get blown to the East Coast of Florida and travel up to the Carolinas and Virginia.
My reply to a FReepmail:
> Maybe this is too dumb to put on the board; but if they left Spain, drifted ...
Not dumb at all, that's the route Columbus made.
But heading out to blue water means provisioning: salted meat, barrels of water, veggies in straw, etc. A military-style naval expedition that I don't think was possible 20,000 years ago.
Note that even with sail, Columbus's ships were out of victuals by the time they got to San Salvador (or Cuba or whereever). And I doubt anyone once making landfall would stay on the water in a primative boat, up past the US coast and then decided Nova Scotia is the place to be ...
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