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Making Islam illegal -- is it the West's only choice?
Renew America ^ | 2/19/2006 | Warner Todd Huston

Posted on 02/20/2006 7:46:11 AM PST by Dark Skies

When President Bush gave his "axis of evil" speech he went out of his way to make the world understand that it isn't a war with Islam itself that we were joining — and I say joining because the war had been started by the Jihadists decades before. And, in observance to our Western principles, that must be the correct way to view our conflagration with radical Islam.

Let's face facts, it certainly is uncomfortable to a Westerner who has been brought up on tolerance, freedom of religion, and liberty to contemplate a war against an entire religion. But are we approaching a time when Western nations won't have a choice but to target Islam itself in certain ways to keep their own people safe. The best course of action is to make public displays of Islam and certain of its practices illegal in Western nations.

So, the question becomes are we at that time now? Are we fast approaching a time when Mosques will be closed and banned? Have we come to a time when Islamic literature is turned away from our borders? Have the childish and dangerous reactions of Muslims to this cartoon in a Danish newspaper proven that Islam cannot be trusted to be a vital, peaceful, and law-abiding segment of society?

It is looking like yes is the answer to these queries.

We are already approaching this today. In Ontario they have officially outlawed Muslim Sharia law, that law that uses religious precepts to enforce moral and society codes of conduct. And Muslim "family councils" have been stopped where local community groups may supplement Canadian law with their local custom.

Several members of the John Howard administration in Australia have spoken out against Islamic clashes with Western notions of law and societal comportment many times over the last few years.

Recently Howard himself said, "I do think there is this particular complication because there is a fragment which is utterly antagonistic to our kind of society, and that is a difficulty ... You can't find any equivalent in Italian, or Greek, or Lebanese, or Chinese or Baltic immigration to Australia. There is no equivalent of raving on about jihad, but that is the major problem."

Muslims routinely destroy property, threaten death and bodily harm to those who speak out against them, and they constantly fund terrorism throughout the world. In Syria they have burnt an embassy, in Europe Muslims have been responsible for murdering people who have written out against Islam or made movies, and other forms of art. These actions are also approved by Islamic teachers (Imams) and religious leaders, not just undertaken by warped loners claiming to represent Islam quite against the will of the majority or authority.

With this ridiculous cartoon issue, we have seen that Islam has no sense of perspective. In the west parody or satire is seen as not only common, but completely harmless for the most part. And religion is not immune to parody and satire, though even in the west most people are often uncomfortable with religious satire. Usually only people filled with hate attack religion in parody and most in the West instinctively know this. As a result, most people dismiss such parody as foolishness and bad taste.

But with Muslims overreacting — in western eyes at least — to this silly cartoon issue in the way they have, it becomes nearly impossible for Westerners to view Islam as a peaceful religion, but more as a vicious hate group itself. And that perception is justified with the actions that Muslims have increasingly perpetrated over the ensuing years. So, we find that Islam presents a danger to the safety of the populace all too often. It is violent, oppressive, and reactionary.

But, what is to be done about it? We have been raised to feel that religion should be left untouched by government. Freedom of religion is at the very core of our beliefs. And this concept is an important one to uphold. So, how can we honestly and without hypocrisy begin to look toward making Islam illegal?

There is a parallel of sorts in the USA that might be used as a template for action. The Ku klux Klan.

After the Civil War ended, the KKK arose from the ashes of war as an advocacy group for the disenfranchised white voter in the south. But it quickly became a terrorist organization bent on taking out revenge on the south's newly freed black population for having lost the war. It got so bad that even one of the original organizers, C.S. Cavalry General Nathan Bedford Forrest, denounced the organization and quit it in disgust.

But as the late 1800s rolled on and the south began to re-enter the Union as full partners in government, the KKK began to lose steam and prominence. For a time it subsided. But as the 20th century neared, it re-emerged and this time became a nationwide and powerful force taking on the flavor of religious, civic and racial duty. The KKK became invested in government and claimed millions of members nation wide.

In the 1920s, however, it became too much for a liberty loving country to allow the KKK to any longer exist. In Indiana, the entire state government was scandalized by their fealty to Indiana's Klan leader who had raped and beaten his secretary on a train trip. Violence against and frequent lynching of southern blacks became so pervasive that Congress finally acted and banned the Klan. The organization collapsed never again to reclaim the power and prominence it once had.

Now, the KKK has always based its precepts on Christianity, as well as racial identity. It also reacted with violence, rallies, death threats and killing when it was threatened. It careened far away from being a mere "idea" or religious theology and became a terrorist organization. And it became a terrorist organization even though literally millions of Americans that belonged to or identified with the Klan were not themselves violent, evil, or dangerous citizens.

The leadership of the Klan supported violence. The leadership preached violence. The leadership planned and fomented it. Therefore, it had to go because it became a danger to every law-abiding citizen, whether they agreed with the racial and religious concepts the Klan espoused or not.

Islam has become the KKK of the 21st century. The sooner we awake to this truth and take steps to ban the religion, or somehow curtail its pernicious influence the better. The west is going to have to put sever restrictions on Islamic Mosques and public display of Islam. Further, devout Muslims should not be allowed to hold public office (though it certainly should not become a racial issue — sins of the father should not be visited upon the sons).

This is no religious purge as in centuries past. In the past religions were banned to be replaced by the state sponsored sect and believers of the banned religion were mistreated, tortured, unduly taxed, and terrorized. This is absolutely not the model the west would follow by banning aspects of Islam today. No religion is replacing Islam and no one is suggesting that Muslims be mistreated. But the creed to which they hold is fast becoming the most dangerous one in the world today. It is a fine line that we walk to consider banning Islam, but the safety of society is at risk not to do so.

This is not an easy conclusion at which to arrive. But if we continue to turn a blind eye to the danger that Islam presents to the west, we are signing our own death warrants.

The KKK was put down in the USA and made powerless for the same reason. Communism was destroyed for the same reason, as well. Islam is a danger to the world.

Unfortunately, it is just that simple.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: islam; muslim; sharia; wot; yes
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: silentreignofheroes

"The Boy can stay where he is at,,The problem is when he comes for mine.I don't suggest you be with him."

And that's just fine. He's not looking to attack anyone. Nor is he looking to be attacked. I'm solely in defensive mode here.


551 posted on 02/20/2006 11:52:53 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: mysterio

The KKK was a violent religious organization which was banned, first amendment or no.

Won't some of you closet liberals please tell me what is the difference between Islam (both the terrorists and those who support them, tacitly or otherwise) and the KKK? The comnplicit who remain silent are just as guilty as the perpetrators.

The islamoterrorists advocate and practice the slaughter of "infidels".

The KKK advocated and practiced the slaughter of African-Americans.

The difference please?


552 posted on 02/20/2006 11:52:54 AM PST by Mogengator
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To: griffin

True, if Hitler had contained his attrocities to just Germany for 20 years longer, instead of invading his neighbors, it very well could have turned into a religious movement.


553 posted on 02/20/2006 11:53:03 AM PST by eastforker (Under Cover FReeper going dark(too much 24))
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To: Wombat101

"This was the same pattern of the Second World War and the Old War; a technologically, philosphically and ethically backwards totalitarian society is battling it's complete opposite; and, once again, can only win if we let it."

Beg yer pardon, that was supposed to read COLD War.


554 posted on 02/20/2006 11:53:36 AM PST by Wombat101 (Islam: Turning everything it touches to Shi'ite since 632 AD...)
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To: griffin
"How it became a religion is quite interesting. I imagine in a few hundred years if nazism makes a resurgence there could be a possibility that it too can become a religion...then therefore must be 'tolerated'. "

Which brings to mind another inconsistency with this Klan/Islamofascist comparison.

The later have had quite a few more years to develop their murderous ways...covered a lot more ground.

555 posted on 02/20/2006 11:53:37 AM PST by Earthdweller ("West to Islam" Cake. Butter your liberals, slowly cook France, stir in Europe then watch it rise.)
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To: eastforker
Just as it was before the birth of Christ. But, as I already stated, only after a very bloody and violent war where Islam is decimated.

I agree with you.

The trouble is islam is based on follows mohammds example as the "al insan al kamil" (the "perfect man") whose vile examples muslims are to emulate. His ideology is based on territorial expansion (by the sword if need be) and dawah, and examples of jihad.

Islam, in its pure from, is obliged to take over and impose its beliefs on others until the coming of the end of days so nobody is really safe. Not even muslims. The "true believers" know of the prophecy of the 72 sects, where the ummah is divided into 73 sects, 72 of which will be false, and doomed.

So even if islam were victorious in the Dar ul harb, and 5 billion Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Agnostics, Atheists, etc were butchered by them so their islamic fantasies of global domination came true, they would be still be obliged to kill each other until only the perfect muslims who followed mohamMADs own example are left.

Islam is not only our enemy, its a muslims own worst enemy. Nobody oppresses and gets muslims killed better than their own "true believers."

I wish we could air the truth on this evil to expose it for what it is... the truth will set the slaves of allah free.

556 posted on 02/20/2006 11:53:39 AM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade )
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To: griffin
Religion is:

Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Islam qualifies by definition as much as Christianity or Judaism. Perhaps the dictionary needs to be rewritten.

557 posted on 02/20/2006 11:54:29 AM PST by sakic
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To: lemura
Maybe you should wake up and read more closely.

Explain to me how, during WWII, Japan's King as rep. of God, Samurai-code admonishing fits with I said about outlawing religion(paragraph 2).

And then tell me how Japan's king as rep of God...doesn't coalesce with what I said about an individuals right for freedom and a country's right to govern itself.

And you can't outlaw a religion. Last time I checked, Shintoism is not outlawed. It was a rare, temporal case. But then again, it's easier to outlaw a religion when you've incarcerated many of its practitioners in internment camps.
558 posted on 02/20/2006 11:54:35 AM PST by Lochlainnach (If there was no death penalty, I'm pretty sure Jesus would still be alive today.)
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To: Dark Skies
I don't like the idea of banning a religion, but I also don't agree with the goals of radical Islam either.

Also, we've got to remember our history. Lincoln and FDR suspended elements of the constitution to fight their respective wars. The constitution still survives.
559 posted on 02/20/2006 11:56:19 AM PST by kcbc2001
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To: Auntie Dem

Since you are unable I'll help you. It was Hitler. You may have heard of him but I guess I shouldn't assume anything.


560 posted on 02/20/2006 11:56:21 AM PST by sakic
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To: najida

What happens next is that we either get over the technicality of Islam allegedly being a religion and deal with it as it deserves to be dealt with, or, their unreformed and currently-in-the-hands-of-evil-people cult will nuke our civilization into submission.


561 posted on 02/20/2006 11:56:23 AM PST by thoughtomator
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To: griffin
Isn't that essentially what the neighbors of the 9/11 terrorist hijackers said after the fact?

It's also said about postal workers, serial killers, doctors, lawyers, drug dealers, cat killers, dog rapists, baby sitters, kidnappers, Michael Jackso (no, not him, nevermind)

562 posted on 02/20/2006 11:56:58 AM PST by najida (Me arguing for logic and against emotion is like Mother Teresa becoming a pole dancer.)
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To: MineralMan
??? OK..I know that bump means (to be in agreement with)..what in the world is GRIND?
563 posted on 02/20/2006 11:57:32 AM PST by Earthdweller ("West to Islam" Cake. Butter your liberals, slowly cook France, stir in Europe then watch it rise.)
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To: thoughtomator

Deal with it how?


564 posted on 02/20/2006 11:57:43 AM PST by najida (Me arguing for logic and against emotion is like Mother Teresa becoming a pole dancer.)
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To: griffin

"Isn't that essentially what the neighbors of the 9/11 terrorist hijackers said after the fact?
"

I don't know. What I do know is that no armed killers will come into my neighborhood unchallenged. It is not going to happen. That applies to gang members. That applies to racists. That applies to those who would kill someone for their religious beliefs.

I have some hard principles, and that's one of them. Had I lived in a place where the Klan came to burn someone's home or burn a cross on their lawn, I'd have been there, too, armed and ready to defend my neighbors.

I'm not alone, either. Some of us who swore an oath to uphold the Constitution when we joined the military still take that oath seriously. Very seriously.


565 posted on 02/20/2006 11:58:31 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: MineralMan

Hang in there and Git Er Done.


566 posted on 02/20/2006 11:59:06 AM PST by silentreignofheroes (When the Last Two Prophets are taken there will be no Tommorrow!)
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To: Earthdweller

Bump and grind....

I know!

You remind him of Gypsy Rose Lee!


567 posted on 02/20/2006 11:59:38 AM PST by najida (Me arguing for logic and against emotion is like Mother Teresa becoming a pole dancer.)
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To: Earthdweller

Just some humor. Sorry. The old Bump and Grind. I get a little punchy around the 500th post in a thread. [grin]


568 posted on 02/20/2006 11:59:55 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: MineralMan

The you are willing to take up arms against Muslim in this country who preach the overthrow of the Constitution and its replacement with Sharia law?


569 posted on 02/20/2006 12:00:15 PM PST by JCEccles
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To: sakic
Since you are unable I'll help you. It was Hitler. You may have heard of him but I guess I shouldn't assume anything.

No DUH? Hitler probably also said "This is good coffee", are you going to swear off coffee forever just because Hitler liked it?

And as far as assuming anything goes, why do you assume the constitution protects religion, when it hasn't done a very good job of it so far?

570 posted on 02/20/2006 12:04:15 PM PST by Auntie Dem (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Terrorist lovers gotta go!)
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To: paul51
Nope, the war is underway. Take the battle to the enemy and stay on the offense

I'm not talking about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm addressing the thread's original hypothetical of "banning Islam" in the US. Sure, there may be a fine line between "ideological" war and actual, physical war. Any Muslim known to view Islam itself as warfare should obviously be watched closely. Very closely. No argument there.

Still, "misguided believer" is not the same as "aggressor." There have been no attacks on US soil after 9/11/01 NOT because we "banned Islam," but because we're vigilantly pursuing suspected terrorists and their supporters. There is no need to physically "take the battle" to non-combatants.

571 posted on 02/20/2006 12:05:37 PM PST by Freedom_no_exceptions (No actual, intended, or imminent victim = no crime. No exceptions.)
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To: JCEccles

"The you are willing to take up arms against Muslim in this country who preach the overthrow of the Constitution and its replacement with Sharia law?"




I will take up arms in response to ACTION, not WORDS. Talk is cheap, as we've seen in this thread. Action requires counter-action.

Of course I will take up arms against any Muslim or anyone else who attempts to actually overthrow our Constitution. I will not take up arms against someone who is talking about it.

I respond to acts, not words.


572 posted on 02/20/2006 12:05:41 PM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: najida
Ah, now that's a good question. I would say that any way that ends the threat to our civilization from Islam is adequate. The specifics of what we will need to do to end that threat are a topic on which there should be much attention. I would be happy for the moment just to see the conversation move from "should we deal with them" to "how should we deal with them".
573 posted on 02/20/2006 12:06:31 PM PST by thoughtomator
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To: najida
"You remind him of Gypsy Rose Lee!"

LOL. I ain't no gypsy! I'm a lady I is!

MY cousin is sweet Georgia Brown. Is that close enough?

574 posted on 02/20/2006 12:08:51 PM PST by Earthdweller ("West to Islam" Cake. Butter your liberals, slowly cook France, stir in Europe then watch it rise.)
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To: thoughtomator

I think that is what a lot are debating.

I agree, we need to deal with them.
But we have hoping for the best on one end and
killing them all on the other.


575 posted on 02/20/2006 12:09:43 PM PST by najida (Me arguing for logic and against emotion is like Mother Teresa becoming a pole dancer.)
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To: nmh

"Voodoo is not allowed here". .....Sure it is. Go to Miami and look at the adherents of "Santeria" a form of "Voodoo". This is widespread in the Haitian "community" in South Fla. Also there are still remnants of Voodoo in Pre-Katrina NOLA.


576 posted on 02/20/2006 12:12:46 PM PST by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis)
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To: Wormwood

Name one American beheaded on American soil by an American Muslim acting purely in the name of Islam.

Just one.


John Mohamud and his little sidekick...as well as Assan Ackbar with the 101st. They all went to the same mosque locaated in Baton Rouge, LA. That's 3 that came out of the islamic closet to create just a personal little jihad. Like A Duck In A Noose. Simply put, islam is a death cult. If you apologize for their criminal behavior, like an apologist of islam would, where does that place your intentions?


577 posted on 02/20/2006 12:14:01 PM PST by bayouranger (The 1st victim of islam is the person who practices the lie.)
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To: eastforker
True, if Hitler had contained his attrocities to just Germany for 20 years longer, instead of invading his neighbors, it very well could have turned into a religious movement.

LOL... yeah, I can see that.. a few Aryan priests and the occasional Jew killing ceremony, and they could elevate the whole stinkin NAZI movement into a state "religion."

578 posted on 02/20/2006 12:17:17 PM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade )
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To: najida

We need to resolve ourselves to do what is necessary to solve this problem - even if the only way to do it turns out to be "kill 'em all." Only then will we be in the position to convince to modify their behavior in such a way that we won't be forced to do so.

I hope there's a less bloody solution. But under no circumstances will I let my desire (and more broadly, the general desire among civilized people) for a less bloody solution become an enemy strategic advantage in his quest to kill or conquer us.


579 posted on 02/20/2006 12:18:45 PM PST by thoughtomator
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To: MineralMan
The imperialist, racist demon that achieved its vile outworking in pre-war Shintoism was exorcised at the cost of millions of lives and two nuclear bombs. What will it take to exorcise the racist demon of radical Islam as it rolls through the earth on a mission to culturally dominate the planet?

Despite your posturing, I suspect you are not willing to pay the price.

580 posted on 02/20/2006 12:19:39 PM PST by JCEccles
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To: Dark Skies

Bump for later reading.


581 posted on 02/20/2006 12:20:42 PM PST by uglybiker (If a Liberal said something, and there was no one around to hear. Would it still be stupid?)
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To: Freedom_no_exceptions
I'm not talking about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan

Nor am I. The only difference between misguided believer, aggressor and non combatants is time.

582 posted on 02/20/2006 12:23:23 PM PST by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: paul51

make that time and opportunity


583 posted on 02/20/2006 12:23:51 PM PST by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: Earthdweller

"MY cousin is sweet Georgia Brown. Is that close enough?
"

Can she do a bump and grind, though? That's the real question.


584 posted on 02/20/2006 12:24:10 PM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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Comment #585 Removed by Moderator

To: Auntie Dem
No DUH? Hitler probably also said "This is good coffee", are you going to swear off coffee forever just because Hitler liked it?

That comparison hardly works to write off what Sakic was saying. Hitler's taste in coffee and his ideologies about religion are vastly different things.

586 posted on 02/20/2006 12:28:18 PM PST by baseballfanjm
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To: Noumenon

Please lose that tagline, and cease the menaces in general.


587 posted on 02/20/2006 12:28:37 PM PST by Admin Moderator
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To: Paulus Invictus

The jihad is the problem. They are forcing us to kill them and to kill them in mass quantities. Sleeper cells here have to be rooted out the old fashioned way and dealt with in as peremptory a manner as permitted by law.


588 posted on 02/20/2006 12:29:45 PM PST by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: MineralMan
Ahhh..she's like 85..She grinds alright.

Bahahaha. Are we off topic or what?

589 posted on 02/20/2006 12:30:21 PM PST by Earthdweller ("West to Islam" Cake. Butter your liberals, slowly cook France, stir in Europe then watch it rise.)
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To: mysterio

Intolerance and hatred was a deep concern of our founders.

I grow concerned when I see much of it on this site.

While discussions about the religion's merit are interesting, then they degrade to condemnation, judgements and bans, we play a dangerous game and flirt with the darkest parts of human history.


590 posted on 02/20/2006 12:31:18 PM PST by Wiseghy ("You want to break this army? Then break your word to it.")
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To: Earthdweller

I have a feeling that hijacking a thread is a safe form of hijacking here ;)


591 posted on 02/20/2006 12:31:29 PM PST by najida (Me arguing for logic and against emotion is like Mother Teresa becoming a pole dancer.)
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To: wvobiwan
We can't lose sight of the fact that most Muslims DO NOT endorse terrorism

And there were Nazis who did not endorse the killing of Jews and Christians. Some were quite against such policies, yet they were Nazis nonetheless.

592 posted on 02/20/2006 12:32:06 PM PST by Windsong (Jesus Saves, but Buddha makes incremental backups)
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To: Wiseghy
"Intolerance and hatred was a deep concern of our founders."

"I grow concerned when I see much of it on this site."

"I am not guilty of the common error of judging another by myself. I readily believe in another’s disposition that is contrary to my own. And though I find myself pledged to one particular way of life, I do not require, as many do, that others also follow it. Rather, I accept and understand a thousand different ways of living and, contrary to most men, more readily recognize differences than uniformity amongst us."----Montaigne

But, I'll be d@mned if some Islamofascist is going to force me to join his cult of murder and intolerance!

593 posted on 02/20/2006 12:35:01 PM PST by Earthdweller ("West to Islam" Cake. Butter your liberals, slowly cook France, stir in Europe then watch it rise.)
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To: USF

Where would the taliban and OBL be today in Afghanistan if 9/11 had not occured. This is a turning point for Islam. Had they waited just ten more years before attacking America's homeland no telling how this would have worked out. By 2011 Iran would have the bomb and would have been a great aly of the Taliban.


594 posted on 02/20/2006 12:35:30 PM PST by eastforker (Under Cover FReeper going dark(too much 24))
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To: Wiseghy

As happened in Europe on September 1, 1939 and at Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, on September 11, 2001, a vile enemy introduced us in grisly and horrific fashion to the darkest parts of human history. The question before us now is, will we roll up our sleeves and defeat that enemy or will we surrender to it?



595 posted on 02/20/2006 12:36:56 PM PST by JCEccles
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To: farlander

Please see post #588.


596 posted on 02/20/2006 12:40:28 PM PST by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: Dark Skies

It does not have to come to this, but considering our wishy washy approach to damn near everything, it just might.


597 posted on 02/20/2006 12:42:17 PM PST by Eighth Square
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To: Earthdweller

"Intolerance and hatred was a deep concern of our founders."

I'll be d@mned if some Islamofascist is going to force me to join his cult of murder and intolerance.

I'd say that was a inalienable right,not intolerance or hate.I've got younguns and grand-younguns and I'll be dagone if any one is going to bother them!I will not hate or intolerate,---guess the rest.


598 posted on 02/20/2006 12:42:38 PM PST by silentreignofheroes (When the Last Two Prophets are taken there will be no Tommorrow!)
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To: Wiseghy

Look around FR and see if there was any "hate speech" against the muslim death cult before 9/11. People are only reacting to the evil performed by islam in the name of allah.

islam is a wolf in sheep's clothing


599 posted on 02/20/2006 12:42:47 PM PST by texson66 ("Tyranny is yielding to the lust of the governing." - Lord Moulton)
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To: boris
"Yes, there are innocent little girls in Islam. There were innocent little girls on the planes of 9/11, also. The enemy has set the terms of engagement: there are no innocents, no civilians, no non-combatants. Very well; now that we understand the terms, we can fight it on their terms. We have done this before: total war against Germany

1 Samuel 15:3 "Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'"

Saul did everything except kill the livestock. And yet look what happened. The children in the Middle East are trained to hate and endorse violence from the cradle to the grave. Watch any documentary on Iran/Iraq/Syria/Saudi Arabia, etc and you'll see them brainwashed..rocking back and forth crosslegged while they chant verse after verse from the Koran for hours and hours on end.

You can bet they will harbor a lifelong grudge against the evil West (great Satan) for killing their parents, brothers, friends, etc etc. In any event, I agree 100% with your comments.

600 posted on 02/20/2006 12:42:52 PM PST by Windsong (Jesus Saves, but Buddha makes incremental backups)
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