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In the beginning... (How life on Earth got going is still mysterious, but not for want of ideas)
The Economist ^ | Feb 16th 2006

Posted on 02/21/2006 9:53:32 AM PST by presidio9

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To: orionblamblam
It's all around you. Simple chemicals combine into complex chemicals all the time. Simple life is just complex chemistry.

That is what I thought. You have no evidence that raw materials self assembled themselves into the first life.
21 posted on 02/21/2006 11:25:22 AM PST by microgood
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To: presidio9

My question is and has been where did Darwin's "warm little pond" come from? I.e., where did this little sphere we call "earth", little warm ponds and all, come from? The "Big Bang"? Who, or what pulled the trigger? That to me is the fundemental question. The only answer has to be an "intelligent" creator. Cold, empty space does not just go "BANG!" on it's own. Call it faith if you like, but I like to think that it is, as Mr. Spock was wont to say, "logical".


22 posted on 02/21/2006 11:30:21 AM PST by mc5cents
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To: microgood

Is there only 1 form of life?

If not, then random processes should have evolved a huge number of alternate forms of life not based on DNA, here on earth alone

If our life form is singular, then given the complexity of the simplest form of life it is mathematically inconceivable (tends to infinity) that random process and random enviromental variables would all conspire to create the 1 and only system of processes that comprise life.

BTW: Since evolution favors the strong, then there should be many other species of life that have attained much similar levels of intelligence, theology, language, creativity, tool making, abilities to synthesize ideas and predict future trends, etc, as man.


23 posted on 02/21/2006 11:35:55 AM PST by Mark Felton ("Your faith should not be in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.")
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To: orionblamblam; SirKit
Obviously, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the only viable theory.

*snort*

24 posted on 02/21/2006 11:38:09 AM PST by SuziQ
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To: NietzschesJoker

> Do you always condescend to people?

To the newage types, you bet.

> what more evidence you would need to prove that life is a force

Life is not a force. It is a result of natural forces.


25 posted on 02/21/2006 11:41:59 AM PST by orionblamblam (A furore Normannorum libra nos, Domine)
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To: microgood

> You have no evidence that raw materials self assembled themselves into the first life.

Keep those eyes and that brain closed! That's a good supernaturalist...


26 posted on 02/21/2006 11:42:43 AM PST by orionblamblam (A furore Normannorum libra nos, Domine)
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To: mc5cents

> The only answer has to be an "intelligent" creator.

Really? How about Azathoth?

> Cold, empty space does not just go "BANG!" on it's own.

Actually, it does. Look up "quantum foam."


27 posted on 02/21/2006 11:44:05 AM PST by orionblamblam (A furore Normannorum libra nos, Domine)
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To: Mark Felton

> random processes should have evolved a huge number of alternate forms of life not based on DNA

And early on, perhaps that occured. But the DNA-based life won.

> Since evolution favors the strong, then there should be many other species of life that have attained much similar levels of intelligence, theology, language, creativity, tool making, abilities to synthesize ideas and predict future trends, etc, as man.

What makes you say that? "Strong" and "tool user with musical ability" are not necessarily the same thing. Humanity has come close to extinction at least once (Toba explosion), while "dumber" animals got by just fine. Theology, as Islamists demonstrate, is not sufficient to make one long-term survivable.

Evolution is not directed towards some sort of goal of a superbeing. Evolution simply favors those forms that are best at reproducing themselves. By that reckoning, the bacteria and the bugs have us humans beat by a mile.


28 posted on 02/21/2006 11:47:59 AM PST by orionblamblam (A furore Normannorum libra nos, Domine)
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To: orionblamblam
Life is not a force. It is a result of natural forces.

Spoken like a true high priest.

Your faith surpasses all others my son.

29 posted on 02/21/2006 11:52:35 AM PST by jonno
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To: jonno

Please. You newage types are amusing with your "forces" and your "vortexes" and whatnot, but it's clear you don't even understand what the words even mean.


30 posted on 02/21/2006 11:55:16 AM PST by orionblamblam (A furore Normannorum libra nos, Domine)
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To: orionblamblam

New age types, eh?

If you actually had something to teach people and were not only concerened with asserting your sense of superiority, you wouldn't write to people as you do.


31 posted on 02/21/2006 11:57:28 AM PST by NietzschesJoker (Silence, exile and cunning--a few of my favorite things.)
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To: orionblamblam
Look up "quantum foam."

I think I may have used that once to clean my tires.

32 posted on 02/21/2006 12:00:29 PM PST by azhenfud (He who always is looking up seldom finds others' lost change.)
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To: Mark Felton
create the 1 and only system of processes that comprise life

One problem with silicon-based life is that the combustion product that is the equivalent of CO2 is SiO2 = quartz. It tends to irritate the throat when exhaling.

33 posted on 02/21/2006 12:06:10 PM PST by thomaswest (Just curious)
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To: orionblamblam
Please. You newage types are amusing with your "forces"...

??? What are you talking about???

You wrote in post #25:
Life is not a force. It is a result of natural forces.

You think that because you put the word "natural" in front of the word "force" that it gives you some kind of special power of persuasion?

You are a high priest. And we know what your religion is...

34 posted on 02/21/2006 12:13:27 PM PST by jonno
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To: orionblamblam
Keep those eyes and that brain closed! That's a good supernaturalist...

Your the one with the closed eyes and brain. You think life is just a complicated snowflake, and regard the most important part of our existence as not existing.
35 posted on 02/21/2006 12:44:31 PM PST by microgood
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To: Mark Felton
If our life form is singular, then given the complexity of the simplest form of life it is mathematically inconceivable (tends to infinity) that random process and random enviromental variables would all conspire to create the 1 and only system of processes that comprise life.

I agree. But with scientists, their a priori assumptions about the natural world prevent them from seeing anything but randomness. In fact, the whole theory of common descent is there to support randomness because they understand the odds of all these species arising individually through randomness would be hard for even them to believe.
36 posted on 02/21/2006 12:50:54 PM PST by microgood
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To: microgood

> regard the most important part of our existence as not existing

Oh, do tell: what is "the most important part of our existence?"

This should be good.


37 posted on 02/21/2006 12:52:41 PM PST by orionblamblam (A furore Normannorum libra nos, Domine)
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To: jonno

>>Life is not a force. It is a result of natural forces.

> You think that because you put the word "natural" in front of the word "force" that it gives you some kind of special power of persuasion?

Nope. But when I point out that life is not a force, but is the *result* of forces, that gives me the special power of being *factually* *accurate.*


38 posted on 02/21/2006 12:54:37 PM PST by orionblamblam (A furore Normannorum libra nos, Domine)
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To: orionblamblam
"....I point out that life is not a force, but is the *result* of forces...."

If so, then apart from obvious appearances, what distinguishes you from - say - a rock?

39 posted on 02/21/2006 1:00:35 PM PST by azhenfud (He who always is looking up seldom finds others' lost change.)
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To: orionblamblam
Oh, do tell: what is "the most important part of our existence?"

Our emotional well being. Science and rational thought are just tools we use to keep our emotional side happy. Irrationality has and alway will be the driving force in human behavior and life.

I know that is shocking to say that in this postmodern reductionist world, but the fact that we are reliving the Enlightenment era and revisiting Hume just shows how irrational we are to not have learned from that period in history.
40 posted on 02/21/2006 1:08:35 PM PST by microgood
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