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GM adds 2,200 to Job Bank (Paid not to work)
Houston Chron ^ | 2/21/06 | Mikey_1962

Posted on 02/21/2006 10:20:50 AM PST by Mikey_1962

OKLAHOMA CITY — Some workers brought cameras to General Motors Corp.'s Oklahoma plant to take photographs of their work stations and co-workers before the last vehicle rolled off the line Monday, photos that will become treasured keepsakes in scrapbooks.

Others just brought their sadness.

"It's a rough day," said GM spokeswoman Nancy Sarpolis in Detroit. "It's hard to see your co-workers go."

After 27 years, the last vehicle produced at the plant, a white Chevrolet Trailblazer EXT, rolled out Monday evening as GM shut down production in the first of 12 facilities the company plans to close by 2008 as it struggles to match production with market demand.

Detroit-based GM plans to cut 30,000 jobs. The Oklahoma City plant employs 2,400 _ 2,200 hourly and 200 salaried _ but economists said as many as 7,500 jobs could be affected including those at GM suppliers and secondary jobs, like hotel and restaurant workers.

"It's obviously a sad day for the state of Oklahoma," said Mike Seney, senior vice president of The State Chamber, a statewide business and industry group.

Gov. Brad Henry said the state will help displaced employees and their families find new jobs through job assistance, retraining and educational opportunities.

Some plant workers are mulling retirement and others will enroll in GM's Jobs Bank, which allows workers to collect full pay and benefits as they attend classes or volunteer at community agencies, Sarpolis said. Some workers will continue be paid through September 2007, when GM's UAW contract expires.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; US: Oklahoma
KEYWORDS: automakers; generalmotors; gm; okc
But its 2,200 hourly workers will be back next week, not to build cars or trucks in Oklahoma City but to clock in as the newest members of GM's "jobs bank" for surplus union labor.

It is believed to be the first time the work force of an entire assembly plant has been dropped in the jobs bank, where members of the United Auto Workers continue receiving their $31-an-hour pay and full benefits -- even after their work has left the building.

Created in the mid-1980s as a safety net for temporarily idled auto workers, the jobs bank is shaping up as a pivotal issue in Big Three contract talks with the UAW next year.

With the addition of the Oklahoma City workers, the national ranks of GM's jobs bank have swollen to more than 8,000 workers, according to company sources.

Analysts estimate that each worker in the jobs bank costs GM about $130,000 a year in wages and benefits, a crippling financial burden for an automaker that lost $8.6 billion last year.

But in the homes of GM's idled employees, the jobs bank represents a reward for years of hard work and a lifeline in an uncertain economy.

"All I can say is thank God for the UAW," said Bruce Arnold, who hired in at Oklahoma City when it opened in 1979. "You throw 2,200 people out in the streets and you're not going to find 2,200 jobs."

"We've worked hard all these years," said Mike Black, a 27-year plant veteran. "We did everything we were asked to do. But the one thing we don't have control over is the sale of the product."

Sales of the TrailBlazer fell 14 percent last year and the Envoy plunged 20 percent, as rising gas prices and a proliferation of cross-over models dulled the appeal of traditional truck-based SUVs.

"Every product has a cycle, and that one happens to be at the end of its current cycle," said Jack Nerad, executive editor of the Kelley Blue Book auto-buying guide.

The parking lots at the Oklahoma City plant are a sea of unsold inventory. At nearby City Chevrolet, slow-selling TrailBlazers are lined up out front for customers who hardly seem interested. "It's hard to give a TrailBlazer away," said Michael Brody, the dealership's general manager. "The market is flooded with them."

But shutting down the 4-million-square-foot Oklahoma City plant comes at a high price. Given current cost estimates, GM will spend more than $300 million on its idled work force before the current UAW contract expires in September 2007.

"I think of the (jobs bank) as a gift from the company and the UAW," said Russell Dearing, a 55-year-old line worker. "And I'm going to utilize whatever is given me."

Will the jobs bank survive?

The jobs bank is at the heart of ongoing negotiations between GM and the UAW to offer buyouts to workers near retirement age. If GM can speed up its attrition rate, workers from the jobs bank or bankrupt Delphi Corp. could be reassigned to active duty.

However, auto analysts say GM, Ford Motor Co. and DaimlerChrysler AG are only biding time until the 2007 contract talks, when the Big Three may try to eliminate the jobs bank entirely.

"It's obviously going to be a huge target in the forthcoming negotiations," said David Cole, director of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor.

UAW President Ron Gettelfinger has vigorously defended the jobs bank, saying recently that the union will fight any attempts to do away with it. "That jobs bank is not going to go away," he said in an interview with Detroit radio station WJR-AM on Feb. 8.

Where once the jobs bank served as a limited holding bin for downsized workers, it will be flooded with new participants in the months ahead. The next crop of workers destined for the jobs bank will come when the Lansing Craft Centre closes this spring, and a production line is eliminated later this year at GM's Saturn plant in Spring Hill, Tenn.

With little chance that GM sales will improve enough to resurrect their plant, most Oklahoma City workers seem resigned to volunteer work or taking college classes while they remain on GM's payroll.

According to the UAW contract, jobs-bank workers have the option of taking volunteer jobs at approved agencies or becoming full-time students. If not, they are required to report to the plant daily, and to clock in and out just as if they were headed for the line.

In Oklahoma City, workers bristle at the criticism of the jobs bank levied by Wall Street and national news media such as Fortune magazine, which called the system "almost un-American" in its most recent issue.

"Nobody wants to sit around and do nothing and be unproductive," said Darrell Mason, who has worked at the plant for 27 years. "Obviously this (closing) was quite a shock to us. We're at a crossroads right now."

Shutdown happened quickly

A modern facility on a 430-acre site at the edge of town, the Oklahoma City plant has been a steady performer for GM since building its first car -- a Chevrolet Citation -- in 1979. GM poured $700 million into the plant in 2001 to convert it for SUV production, and rebuilt its paint shop after a tornado hit the facility three years ago.

But with GM groaning under the weight of excess capacity, the plant was an obvious choice to kick off the company's historic restructuring. In fact, only three months elapsed from the time of Wagoner's announcement until Monday's shutdown -- a blink of the eye in the life of an auto plant.

"I don't think it's ever happened that fast before," said Lori Darks, a quality-control supervisor. "We went through the different stages of death and dying in 90 days. Basically, you accept it."

It's a work force that "grew up together, raised their families together, celebrated together, and cried together," Darks said. But the emotions stirred by the plant closing are fading as workers look to the future.

"We're blessed to be put right into the jobs bank," said Bobby Millsap, another 27-year veteran. "That takes some of the pressure off, but we don't know what to expect after 2007."

Until then, workers are anxious to take advantage of their free time.

Millsap, an ordained minister, hopes to build a church. Ray Owens has signed up to work at the Urban League. Russell Dearing will complete his degree at the University of Central Oklahoma. Steve and LaDonna Mandelkow, who met and married while working in the plant, plan to volunteer at their daughter's school.

Some hold out slim hopes that GM might reopen the plant one day. That prospect, however, appears dim. Last week, GM turned down a $200 million package of incentives from the state of Oklahoma to keep the factory running.

"We don't have a product right now, but why not give us one in the future?" said LaDonna Mandelkow. "We believe in ourselves. I pray for Rick Wagoner, that the Lord will lead him to make wise decisions."

On Feb. 11, about 350 workers and their families packed the New Dimensions Ministry Church near the plant for a prayer service. They gave thanks, prayed for faith and vowed to stick together in the coming months.

But there were no apologies forthcoming from workers preparing to enter the jobs bank at GM's expense.

"There was nothing we did to shut the plant down," said Nanette Relerford, who worked in the paint shop. "We worked hard every single day. It was the vehicle that GM put in here that didn't work."

1 posted on 02/21/2006 10:20:51 AM PST by Mikey_1962
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To: Mikey_1962
"Some workers brought cameras to General Motors Corp.'s Oklahoma plant to take photographs of their work stations and co-workers"

"Everyone line up. Move in a little. OK, everybody frown!"

2 posted on 02/21/2006 10:25:16 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: Mikey_1962
"We worked hard every single day. It was the vehicle that GM put in here that didn't work."...not the sweepers making $120,00 a year! (sorry I couldn't help myself)

***snickers***, **clears throat** Dang you Japanse and your insidious way!

3 posted on 02/21/2006 10:28:09 AM PST by strange1 ("Show the enemy harm so he shall not advance" Sun Tzu The Art of War)
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To: strange1

"...not the sweepers making $120,00 a year! (sorry I couldn't help myself)"

I'm not exactly pro-union but that comment was irresponsible. You can take anyone's total compensation package (including issurance, soc sec match, et al) and end up with a number that sounds rediculous. GM management is very bit at fault as the union with where the company is today as they agreed to all the perks the workers were given. And I think that lady has a point, the vehicle designs coming out of GM are often crap.


4 posted on 02/21/2006 10:32:53 AM PST by DonaldC
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To: Mikey_1962

I own my own business.

Can I job bank myself so I can get paid for not showing up?


5 posted on 02/21/2006 10:36:09 AM PST by Mr. Brightside (I know what I like.)
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To: Mr. Brightside
You sure can...just pay into an rainy day account...and just add the extra amount needed onto your product cost...

Of course next you will have to buy ahem influence ahem 'convince' a few politicians to vote to protect your product against foreign interlopers...:)

6 posted on 02/21/2006 10:44:50 AM PST by joesnuffy (A camel once bit our sister..but we knew just what to do...we gathered rocks and squashed her!)
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Marker post so that I can come in later and giggle some more at the irony of the woman who blames GM for the shut down without giving a second thought to the effect of her being paid to sit around on her worthless ass while GM derives nothing from her "labor".


7 posted on 02/21/2006 10:56:04 AM PST by T.Smith
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To: Mr. Brightside

This is just another word for severance pay. Why do you have a problem with it. My cousin received a years salary after being pink slipped. I think he found a job about three months later and was able to do pretty well. You made the choice to own your own business for the millions in tax savings, but some get regular jobs. Both work for different people. So to answer you selfish question...No you cannot get on the job bank and get paid for showing up. However, don't you do that with your job? You are self employed afterall.


8 posted on 02/21/2006 10:56:16 AM PST by napscoordinator
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To: T.Smith

Same here!


9 posted on 02/21/2006 11:05:25 AM PST by jbenedic2 (Nothing new for the New York Times)
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To: jbenedic2

With all the union dues that was paid into the company by the employees, the union should pay for these people.


10 posted on 02/21/2006 11:11:39 AM PST by EQAndyBuzz ("We don't need POLITICIANS...we need STATESMEN.")
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To: Mikey_1962
But the one thing we don't have control over is the sale of the product.

It seems this worker, like most of his peers in the Workers of The World United (Union), is clueless about the impact of his bloated wages and benefits package on the cost and marketability of the product he helps assemble. Extreme labor costs and ludicrous work rules have suppressed R & D, innovation, and quality measures to the ultimate demise of his plant and others. Remember Oldsmobile was just the tip of the iceberg. I put blame equally on the shortsighted Union Bosses as well as corporate management.

Let's see how quickly these overpaid nut tighteners can find another $70,000-plus-bennies gig with their skill sets. I hope they can smile when they say "Would you like fries with that Big Mac sir?" or "Welcome to Home Depot. Nails are on Aisle 8."

11 posted on 02/21/2006 11:22:57 AM PST by WideGlide (That light at the end of the tunnel might be a muzzle flash.)
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To: DonaldC
GM management is very bit at fault as the union with where the company is today as they agreed to all the perks the workers were given

This is a comment often repeated on FR, and I wonder exactly how valid it is.

What, exactly, is GM, or any company with a union to do? If GM doesn't capitulate, the workers strike and GM pays all the fixed costs of an empty plant, equipment and inventory. From what I understand, striking workers can't be legally fired. Its hardly negotiation when one side is forced to capitulate by necessity. The only real choice a company has when union demands are unreasonable is to close the plant and move somewhere else.
12 posted on 02/21/2006 11:40:34 AM PST by babyface00
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To: Mikey_1962

The jobs bank wasn't a gift to the workers at GM.
It wasn't a demand from a greedy union either.

It was part of a mutual contract called the "Lifetime Jobs Agreement". It was negotiated to allow the company to outsource jobs to Mexico originally.

The union agreed to not strike if the company retained enough jobs here to allow all current employees to work until they retired, quit, or died. Then GM could legally move those jobs out too.

The problem is that GM could not resist the temptation of outsourcing and left many here without a position.
They could bring back 2,200 jobs and put these people to work, but with third world wages and a lack of re-importation taxes it's more profitable to pay these workers to sit on their butts.

Plus there's good propaganda value in publicizing the idled workers in the media to villify the union.


13 posted on 02/21/2006 11:49:15 AM PST by JohnnyGunns (Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day...Give him a computer, he wont bother you for a week)
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To: Mikey_1962

GM could send them out to do the jobs that Americans won't do and collect from the substitute employer the market wage for that kind of work, and thus lighten slightly the jobs bank cost.


14 posted on 02/21/2006 12:04:33 PM PST by dr huer
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To: Mikey_1962

12,000 paid not to work, big three pay billions
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0510/17/A01-351179.htm


The posted article is also misleading as it doesn't say that many times these workers don't do anything but play cross word puzzles and watch movies.

The Unions are driving GM and the Big 3 to bankrupcy. When will these executives stand up to them?


15 posted on 02/21/2006 12:10:58 PM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/israel_palestine_conflict.htm)
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To: Mikey_1962
GM doesn't pay a cent of all those idle workers in the "jobs bank" producing nothing but "whine"

Purchasers of GM products do.

Personally, I plan never to be among those purchasers.
Hooray for the UAW!

16 posted on 02/21/2006 12:19:56 PM PST by Publius6961 (Multiculturalism is the white flag of a dying country)
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To: DonaldC
I'm not exactly pro-union but that comment was irresponsible. You can take anyone's total compensation package (including issurance, soc sec match, et al) and end up with a number that sounds rediculous [sic].

Why not skippy?
That entire amount goes into the price of the freepin' cars!
Being accurate and truthful is now "irresponsible"?

On what planet?

17 posted on 02/21/2006 12:23:33 PM PST by Publius6961 (Multiculturalism is the white flag of a dying country)
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To: babyface00
What, exactly, is GM, or any company with a union to do?

Accept absurd wages, benefits and retirement benefits with the hope of "dealing" with the "impossibilities" later...
And jacking up the price of the resulting product with no relation to the public's willingness to pay.

D'OH!

18 posted on 02/21/2006 12:27:46 PM PST by Publius6961 (Multiculturalism is the white flag of a dying country)
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To: JohnnyGunns
They could bring back 2,200 jobs and put these people to work, but with third world wages and a lack of re-importation taxes it's more profitable to pay these workers to sit on their butts.

The Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Kia, Hundai, etc. have built US factories and building more, so I don't think third world wages have much to do with it.

19 posted on 02/21/2006 12:46:27 PM PST by On the Road to Serfdom
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To: JohnnyGunns

The fact remains that the UAW is the main cause for the company's demise. That and the effete company execs who looked at the short term gains over long term viability of the company.

No worker should be guaranteed a job. The UAW however doesn't believe in this fundamental free market concept.


20 posted on 02/21/2006 12:50:03 PM PST by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: Mikey_1962

Unions have destroyed the American shipping industry, American ship building, American Rail transportation, and looks like now the American auto industry will be the next victim.


21 posted on 02/21/2006 1:02:17 PM PST by SailormanCGA72
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To: On the Road to Serfdom

Actually the Japanese car plants here employ only a fraction of workers of their American counterparts.

It's not because they're more efficient, it's because the Japanese owned factories here are unit assembly plants.

They import the assembled engines and trans (power pod) from a third world country and bolt it into an assembled unibody with complete suspension that was stamped in...you guessed it, a low wage country.

Then seats and interior components (assembled guess where)are bolted in and a "made in America" label is slapped on.

Indeed, the Big Three would like to "build cars" the same way, but I don't see that as a positive influence on American employment and I don't think the UAW created the "Least Expensive Country" business strategies demanded of the automotive suppliers.

Telling American workers they have to "compete" with Chinese labor is both unrealistic and heartless.


22 posted on 02/21/2006 1:42:05 PM PST by JohnnyGunns (Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day...Give him a computer, he wont bother you for a week)
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To: Mr. Brightside

In Midland, our unemployment rate is about 3%.

EVERYONE is hiring --- good rig jobs will pay an easy $120, cash, plus benefits, for marginally skilled labor that is willing to work HARD.

We can't find people.

We have a camp of Chinese oil field worker (all legal) --- seriously --- because we can't find hands.

Just come down.


23 posted on 02/21/2006 1:45:53 PM PST by MeanWestTexan (Many at FR would respond to Christ "Darn right, I'll cast the first stone!")
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To: JohnnyGunns

You are not telling the truth.

Honda builds every single piece of the accord and a couple of other cars entirely in the United states, primarily Ohio.


24 posted on 02/21/2006 1:54:09 PM PST by American_Centurion (A liberal is a socialist who isn't quite willing to get blood on his hands yet. -KarlInOhio)
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To: American_Centurion

Good time to bring up this article.

Snip

The most extreme example of a long-running jobs bank would be in Van Nuys, Calif., north of Los Angeles. GM shut its Van Nuys plant in 1992, moving production of the Chevy Camaro and Pontiac Firebird to Canada.

Despite numerous attempts to buy out these workers or lure them to UAW jobs in other states, GM's jobs bank in Van Nuys was not clear of employees until late last year, when the final workers retired, died or took another job.

http://www.bramptonassembly.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=82


25 posted on 02/21/2006 2:32:36 PM PST by Knuckledragger
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To: American_Centurion

Honda doesn't have an engine plant, a transmission factory, or a body stamping plant in this country. They don't produce suspension components here, nor do they build the interiors in the US.

They put the cars together here like one would a model car.
Just enough to meet federal standard requirements for a "made in America" sticker. GM would like to follow suit.

And that's the truth, though it doesn't support the argument that Japanese companies have become successful by avoiding unions. They're sucessful because of a global manufacturing strategy that takes advantage of other country's import and labor laws.

When GM says it's closing down American car plants, it doesn't mean they're going to stop building minivans or pickup trucks, it means they're going to build them in Brazil or India.

Some believe in free trade...I believe in fair trade.


26 posted on 02/21/2006 3:31:59 PM PST by JohnnyGunns (Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day...Give him a computer, he wont bother you for a week)
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To: Mr. Brightside
You made the choice to own your own business for the millions in tax savings, but some get regular jobs.

So...how's those millions in tax savings working out?

27 posted on 02/21/2006 5:31:33 PM PST by gogeo
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To: JohnnyGunns
Oops, you lose!!!

Honda US Facilities:

Alpharetta, GA Power Equipment Headquarters, Auto Zone, Finance, Parts Center

Honda Rider Education Center

Anna, OH Engine Plant Honda's largest engine facility in the world, the Anna plant annually produces more than one million L-4 andV-6 engines.

Ann Arbor, MI Emissions Lab

Cantil, CA Testing

Colton, CA Honda Rider Education Center

Denver, CO Emissions Testing Lab

East Liberty, OH Automobile Plant Using Honda's flexible manufacturing, this plant produces cars and light trucks on the same assembly line.

Transportation Research Center (Test Track)

Greensboro, NC R & D Center

Lincoln, AL Automobile and Engine Plant Opened in 2001, this is our newest North American Automobile Plant, producing the Odyssey minivan, the Pilot and V-6 engine.

Marysville, OH Motorcycle Plant Honda's first U.S. production facility, the Marysville Motorcycle Plant has produced more than 1.8 million motorcycles and ATVs since 1979.

Automobile Plant One of the most integrated and flexible auto plants in North America, it houses stamping, welding, paint, plastic injection molding and assembly under one roof.

Mojave Desert, CA R & D Test Track

Raymond, OH R & D Center

Russells Point, OH Transmission Plant

Santa Clarita, CA Honda Performance Development (Auto Racing)

Swepsonville, NC Power Equipment Plant This facility has an annual production capacity of 1.5 million multi-purpose power equipment engines.

R & D Center

Irving, TX Honda Rider Education Center

Troy, OH Honda Rider Education Center

Timmonville, SC All-Terrain Vehicle Plant Personal Watercraft Plant Honda's primary ATV plant in North America also handles engine assembly under the same roof and, in 2002, opened a second plant for personal watercraft production.

Torrance, CA U.S. Sales & Marketing Headquarters R & D Center

http://corporate.honda.com/america/facilities.aspx

28 posted on 02/21/2006 5:40:09 PM PST by gogeo
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To: gogeo

lol

The brilliance of some people is astounding!


29 posted on 02/21/2006 6:05:08 PM PST by Mr. Brightside (I know what I like.)
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To: gogeo
I guess you're right.

I'm a retired union auto worker who did 32 years with Delphi, as was my father before me going back to 1950.

Packard Electric (Later Delphi) and the IUE have put food on my family's table since I was born. I've had first hand knowledge of every contract since then.

I know more than the average union hater how much the local worked hand in hand with the company for a compromise between profitability and job security without the need to strike within my the span of my adult life.

We began taking concessions and downsizing in the early 70s, but always but always found an agreement to allow the company to retain success here in the US. (It was in [i]our[/i] better interests too).

The company indeed [i]did[/i] flourish well into it's spinoff from GM In 2002 and started it's IPO on firm financial footing. They moved successfully from the sole GM parts supplier to a world class company owning contracts with everyone from Mercedes to Chrysler.

Anyone who tells me that my union destroyed Delphi in 3 short years is buying into corporate propaganda and has no idea how a union works with a company to give it's members a living wage.

I don't mind saying that I've felt insulted here on more than one occasion by union bashers who seem to think union employees are all a bunch of liberal democrats.

I don't know what others here do for a living, but I've always wondered the motive to bring down auto workers a notch. Many here with whom I see eye to eye with politically seem intent to deny myself and my family the same honest living they most likely enjoy. These anti union comments cut deep, but as you said, I lose.
30 posted on 02/21/2006 7:17:25 PM PST by JohnnyGunns (Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day...Give him a computer, he wont bother you for a week)
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To: JohnnyGunns
Sorry, but you are wrong about what Toyota, Nissan, etc are doing here in the US. They are not just doing final assembly. This is an "urban legend" created by union folks I guess.

For example, Toyota is casting Aluminum engines blocks, pistons, and heads in Jackson TN, St Louis & Troy MO. Milling/machining them and assembling them in WV, KY, and AL. Building transmissions in WV. Stamping the vast majority of their parts in TX, KY, IN, and CA. Doing in house plastics molding at their plants. And doing stamping to final assembly at several plants in the US, 1 in Mexico, and 1 in Canada. US content of parts is well over 60% now. Toyota is doing much of their vehicle design here in the US in Michigan, California, and Arizona. They are building commerical trucks this in Arkansas, and Hybrids in KY and Canada. They even have a union plant in CA which is a joint venture with GM.

Many of the Japanese companies are spending billions this year alone to build new factories and expand existing ones. Why can the Japanese do this, while the Big 3 are closing plants here in the US? They have comparable if not better total benefits packages. And Toyota, Honda, and Nissan are making billions of dollars profit per year, right here in the US. How can that be?

It comes down to how well you run a company. Plain and simple.

31 posted on 02/21/2006 7:38:32 PM PST by gswilder
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To: babyface00

"What, exactly, is GM, or any company with a union to do? If GM doesn't capitulate, the workers strike and GM pays all the fixed costs of an empty plant, equipment and inventory. From what I understand, striking workers can't be legally fired. Its hardly negotiation when one side is forced to capitulate by necessity. The only real choice a company has when union demands are unreasonable is to close the plant and move somewhere else."

GM could have done what Caterpillar did. Compare the results.


32 posted on 02/21/2006 7:43:55 PM PST by hubbubhubbub
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To: JohnnyGunns
I've been a union member and I've had guys who answered to me who belonged to a union. I've also followed US business for the past 30 years.

It's been obvious to any disinterested observer that the US auto industry was in trouble, that their business model wasn't going to work, 30 years ago. I can be as specific as you want me to be about that.

Point is...the spinoff of Visteon and Delphi had nothing to do with parts per se. It had to do with reducing the head count at GM and Ford, getting out of the parts business. Their intention was to get those UAW members out from under the corporate umbrella, force them to compete on price with other parts suppliers.

UAW notwithstanding, Visteon and Delphi are going to have to meet a world price and standard to stay in business. The only question left is...does the UAW pull Ford and GM down with them? I would say probably so, based upon my read of their psychology. At minimum that means BK, perhaps split up.

The union didn't drive Delphi to ruin in three years. The splitup laid bare the problems there, which is why GM and Ford wanted to spin them off.

33 posted on 02/21/2006 9:36:45 PM PST by gogeo
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To: JohnnyGunns
Honda doesn't have an engine plant

Lie, absolutely wrong! My uncle works in the Honda engine plant in Ohio, running one of their Die Casting machines.

In fact the same plant produces engines for some Saturn cars also.

I've been told by my uncle that the entire accord is built and assembled in the US, same goes for the Ridgeline and at least one other car. So I have a distinct feeling that the rest of your statement isn't exactly true. I'm pretty sure he told me their tranny plant is in Alabama.

But I've seen the engine line for myself and I know for an absolute fact that they do make engines in Ohio.

34 posted on 02/22/2006 5:00:57 AM PST by American_Centurion (A liberal is a socialist who isn't quite willing to get blood on his hands yet. -KarlInOhio)
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To: Mikey_1962
Ah the "benefits" of being a union (made) guy.

Kind of like being a member the Mafia.

35 posted on 02/22/2006 5:09:23 AM PST by csvset
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To: hubbubhubbub
GM could have done what Caterpillar did. Compare the results

If you have time, could you post a brief summary of what Caterpillar did?
36 posted on 02/22/2006 5:14:39 AM PST by babyface00
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To: Publius6961
Apparently this one.

Kind of sad. It wasn't always this way, especially around here.

L

37 posted on 02/22/2006 5:22:07 AM PST by Lurker (In God I trust. Everybody else shows me their hands.)
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To: napscoordinator
Millions in tax savings? What country are you in?

When I owned my own business my frigging taxes nearly doubled. Not only did I pay income tax, and ordinary FICA I got to pay the other half of the FICA tax.

That ended up being more than what I paid in Fed Income tax.

L

38 posted on 02/22/2006 5:24:10 AM PST by Lurker (In God I trust. Everybody else shows me their hands.)
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To: babyface00

Over time Cat has moved the bulk of their manufacturing to non union plants. Cat didnt wait til they were insolvent to do this though. Probably too late for GM to pull it off since every new debt offering they make goes to refinancing.


39 posted on 02/26/2006 7:36:04 PM PST by hubbubhubbub
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To: JohnnyGunns

Honda has an engine plant in AnnA, Ohio who also supplies GM with engines in europe where THEY bolt them in, We also have a transmission im marysville, ohio just down from the most efficient automobile plant in the US of A is the transmission plant. So keep up the false stories to these people


40 posted on 01/04/2007 12:41:12 PM PST by motorcyclecruzer
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