Posted on 03/02/2006 6:48:02 AM PST by Amos the Prophet
Abortion and environmental laws stem from the same principle, the reduction of the human species to a status of undesirable.
The laws that destroy private property, imprison nature lovers, fine farmers and hunters, and restrict access to vast tracts of wilderness are all done in the name of protecting "nature" from people. This is not simply a matter of laws that can be undone.
There are countless examples of environmental laws run amock with deadly consequences. An excellent one is the banning of DDT, considered a miracle product with profound health benefits during its use. The banning of DDT was an act of pure murderous demogoguery. Not one of the thousands of workers involved in the production of DDT was ever found to have an adverse health condition. Several of the manufacturers ate DDT by the spoonful to demonstrate that it was not a health risk. Nontheless the substance was banned.
There was never any science proving that DDT was dangerous. No such proof exists even today. DDT was banned purely for political reasons, to placate enviro Nazis. It has resulted in the death of tens of millions of children by malaria and other mosquito born diseases. None of these deaths need have occured.
The outrageous premise that falcon egg shells were thinned by DDT - a fraudulent claim - was used as adequate justification for the death of millions of children. In truth the birds had been hunted to near extinction 50 years earlier and were rebounding when the ban was instituted.
If you believe that environmental laws are merely laws that can be changed and have no lasting consequences you have not looked at the issue. Very nearly as many have died due to the dehumanizing influence of environmentalism as from abortion. All have died for the same reason, because there is a culture of death in control of our political establishment that is committed to the eradication of undesirable human beings.
In the 20th century nearly every nation embarked on a campaign to eradicate undesirables. Nearly half a billion humans were slaughtered in the 20th century in obedience to this evil philosophy. The great slaughter in China of 30 million in the name of the Great Leap Forward was exceeded by the murder of as many by a Woman's Right to Choose in the US.
Environmentalism is an evil philosophy that must be eradicated from our nation. It has no place in a society committed to human dignity and freedom.
Exactly, they've been brainwashing our kids for 20 years now. It's why there is so much acceptance of this slice of liberalism, even in some conservative circles.
Please FreepMail me if you want on or off my Pro-Life Ping List.
Amphibians are certainly affected by DDT and have been known to munch on mosquito larvae as well as adults. Not only that but heavy use of DDT would also speed up the DDT resistance of skeeters.
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Wrong again and again and again and again. It must be difficult to never be right.
DDT does not harm invertebrates.
There are no studies showing resistance to DDT.
It IS a wonder pesticide.
Saying it ain't so does not mean it ain't so.
thank you presenting some sanity...all the while the DDT advocates ignore the alternatives!
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What alternatives?
There are exceptions. Check this out:
You like Jim Wallis do you?
yes, but there is precious little else said about it. Fill the earth and subdue it was the order. Ever since the fall, all our endeavors to save creation, which is now in bondage to decay and corruption, will fail. The only one who will redeem creation, and those who trust him, is Christ himself.
Most of this stuff is coming into the church under the social(ist) gospel mantle. To put our hope in our abilities to 'fix the world' in any way is the essence of Dominionist Theology.
I wish them every success in this undertaking.
(They're the ones always taking the cold showers, right?)
BINGO! PETA is a great one for playing on people's ignorance of animals and animal behavior to get their agendas across.
Yeah just like Republicans want children to starve.
/sarcasm
Need a little more straw for your straw man?
I agree with the author of this thread they are a group that has a large stake commercially in their agenda. They protect billions of dollars of research grants and sponsorships and donations. They are compromised and not to be trusted in my opinion
You have hit the nail on the head.
OB
Lots like pyrethrum and certain herbs but the ONLY issue is money. There are a wealth of resources you can look at on the internet. Do the research like I did and you'll see.
DISCUSSION ABOUT:
"ABORTION AND ENVIRONMENTALISM - THE SAME EVIL"
This is an excellent piece!
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To be included in or removed from the MORAL ABSOLUTES PINGLIST, please FreepMail wagglebee.
My concern is how much money politicians from both sides of the isles are getting from envirnomental groups. I suspect that is where their power is coming from.
My concern is how much money politicians from both sides of the isles are getting from envirnomental groups. I suspect that is where their power is coming from.
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The money raised to save ------- (fill in the blank) is used to pay fat salaries and maintain offices in DC and state capitals. There are thousands of so-called environmentalist lobbyists working to protect their budgets and create permanent jobs.
Many of these carpetbaggers land jobs with government agencies that do nothing more than hassle property owners. Environmentalism is a scourge upon the land. It is based on the extermination of species, not on their protection.
ProLife Ping!
If anyone wants on or off my ProLife Ping List, please notify me here or by freepmail.
Thanks for the ping!
Sorry but that is a horribly simplistic example, would you be so confident if we made the illustration more representational? Say could you as a lay person repair a nuclear power-plant? which is getting close to the complexity of any given ecosystem on this planet.
"The same principle applies to gardening, you don't need to know the exact DNA make up of a plant to grow and take care of the plant"
Again if you want to grow more than just a single plant in other words maintain n ecosystem then understanding every process i not just vital is it a requirement for success. the largest biosphere experiment failed even with the top scientists from all 3 continents including the USA working on it.
I agree most politically active environmental lobby groups have retained lawyers and PR expert for just this purpose.
/sarcasm
Need a little more straw for your straw man?"
Thanks for the support :-)
Thanks OB :-)
I do not support churches taking positions on environmental issues -- like the recent global warming position taken by some churches.
All I said is that you can't totally throw out the concept of care or concern for the environment just because liberal environmentalists have a twisted agenda. My point was to say that not all attempts to protect the environment are harmful. It's pretty easy to protect a water supply with some simple sanitation policies. When third-world communities lack these policies, their people get disease. All policies to protect the environment are not bad.
That's laughable. Why don't you try doing some research other than that spit out by junkscience.com. For starters why not look at ECOTOX and review DDT Saves Lives
But you did make some pretty big assumptions and generalizations about my viewpoint yes?
"My point was to say that not all attempts to protect the environment are harmful."
But most of them are, also most are based on an erroneous position or on scientific data misquoted or taken out of context. They are rarely objective, they find data to suite an argument rather than objectively researching a hypothesis in the scientific method.
As long as the policy is scientifically validated, and also has acceptable impact on the population and economy. Most eco-policy is based on criteria other than economic viability sustainability and they often ignore knock on effects to society in general.
"When third-world communities lack these policies, their people get disease. "
Most environmental lobbyists would rather see third world development stall and stay in the middle ages. They believe their lifestyles are "natural" and have less impact on the environment.
I am still unsure why you tried to label this tag on me, it's ridiculous
"All policies to protect the environment are not bad."
Most of these policies effect other aspects of the environment detrimentally. So called "natural" policy favors lo-tech implementation over industrialization and development. It is mankind's evolutionary destiny to tame and control his environment. mankind is changing his environment all the time, to imply this is not "natural" is ludicrous.
You quoted: "From a scientific perspective, if we don't care for the environment, we perish. "
You responded: Sorry but there is no scientific basis for that comment, many environmental issues are based on poor grasp of science in general.
It appears to me that you are saying that there is no scientific basis for saying that if we don't care for the environment, we perish. I responded with my comment about the sanitation issues and water source pollution in third-world countries as a no-brainer example of when failing to care for the environment leads to disease and death. Other examples are wise farming techniques and proper storage and disposal of hazardous materials. I agree that there are cases where misguided attempts to help the environment have actually caused harm.
I do not support the work of any organized environmental groups at this time. I certainly don't support PETA. (I love animals, but my pets are pets, and I eat tasty meat.) I do believe that a lot of environmental policy is based upon bad science and a leftist, anti-human world view. I believe in Father God, not Mother Earth.
This thread simply illustrates how the very words conservation or environmental protection bring out the ire of conservatives. I am extremely pro-life. I am species-ist. I have four children and am open to more if God wills it -- I'm not one who wants to limit population. But I take very seriously my responsibility to be a good steward of God's creation -- not only for his Glory but for the wellbeing of my family, neighbors and future generations. Conservation is Conservative!
I don't think anyone here is saying DDT should be completely banned. If used properly and at low levels it can be completely safe. Despite what selective research you may read, DDT does have health concerns. The fact is there are safer ways to control mosquito populations. Further, when was the last time we had a malaria outbreak in the US? I don't know how we survived without DDT /sarcasm.
I agree the decision to ban DDT in the US was probably emotive and political but the widespread use in agriculture was certainly problematic. DDT would not have been effective and it would have cause some environmental damage if we had continued to salt the earth with it.
I think everyone here should read and remember this!
yes that's exactly what i am saying, in most cases environments are better left alone form mankind's limited and often bungling attempts to manage tracts of national forest and countryside. Often leaving these areas alone can cause damage too, so what does that suggest?
Pretty much the entire scientific community has agreed that we do not have a grasp on the intricacies of ecosystems and their complex interdependency on flaura forna and even at the molecular level this relationship can be seen. As we do not yet fully understood these mechanisms to attempt to manage enviroment often has unexpected and often detrimental results. Such as the management of yellowstone park, or Australias furtile plains etc.
"I do not support the work of any organized environmental groups at this time. I certainly don't support PETA."
Again we are in agreement then :-)
"I believe in Father God, not Mother Earth."
Again we agree :-)
"This thread simply illustrates how the very words conservation or environmental protection bring out the ire of conservatives."
yes you are probably right there :-)
Then why are the mortality statistics so high post DDT?
Where? Malaria mortality rates? Some specifics please or I can't honestly respond.
No it's not simplist. You are being foolish to argue that a farmer cannot his job to raise crops because he is not a genetics expert.
http://www.unicef.org/health/index_malaria.html Challenges Malaria kills a child somewhere in the world every 30 seconds. It infects at least 500 million people each year, killing 1 million. Ninety per cent of those who die are in Africa, where malaria accounts for about one in five of all childhood deaths.
No you are creating a strawman we are not discussing farming we are discussing managing entire ecosystems, if you don't understand the difference you are not qualified to discuss this subject
So how are you linking this to "post DDT use?" There is no ban on DDT in Africa. Where DDT spraying is the most cost-effective method, they use and further the World Bank even funds it!!!
In fact there is no ban on DDT in the U.S. DDT has never been banned in antimalarial use. The main reason for declining use of DDT as an antimalarial has been the development of resistance. It's only been banned as an agricultural insecticide. These bans have helped to slow the development of resistance, and therefore increased the effectiveness of DDT in antimalarial use.
You should the one creating by strawman by saying that no one should be allowed to tend their small garden, nor grow their field of crops because no one could handle the entire global ecosystem by themselve.
I can't see how a Christian can be a vegetarian, or an environmentalist. Paul certainly made it clear that vegetarianism was spiritual weakness, and the totality of the dietary laws in Leviticus require a balanced diet, centering on the consumption of meat. Environmentalism is the forbidden worship of the creation. All of the kings of Israel were ordered to cut down the 'groves' that the earth worshipers planted, and those that disobeyed were not kings for long.
That is your opinion and a pretty ridiculous one at that. Have a nice weekend.
This thread simply illustrates how the very words conservation or environmental protection bring out the ire of conservatives.
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You need to understand that there is a difference between conservation and environmentalism. They are not the same.
Conservation protects the natural world for its use as a resource to human life.
Environmentalism is an extremist philosophy that believes humans should be restricted from using natural resources.
From what you have said you are a conservationist. An environmentalist would never grant God the authority to give life. According to environmental philosophy you are over quota for children and should not be allowed to have more.
For starters why not look at ECOTOX and review DDT Saves Lives
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I checked your references. The freep link is an assortment of opinions about the subject, not particularly illuminating.
The EPA site does not list DDT.
So what is your point?
First off, I didn't write the paragraph (chanticleer). I do understand the difference between environmentalists and conservationists. Sadly, I don't think the majority of the public nor at FR can differentiate between the 2 (ala Rush). Anyone who has concern for the environment is automatically labeled a wacko.
Second your whole diatribe about how this "ban" (its certainly not banned for malaria control) of DDT is responsible for "10's of millions of children" is absurd and irresponsible. See my other comments.
I agree the decision to ban DDT in the US was probably emotive and political but the widespread use in agriculture was certainly problematic. DDT would not have been effective and it would have cause some environmental damage if we had continued to salt the earth with it.
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Sez you.
This is just the sort of nonthinking reaction that Environmentalism is based on. Your comments are a case in point.
Where? Malaria mortality rates? Some specifics please or I can't honestly respond.
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Checking GOOGLE - Malaria in Africa, the first entry is:
Africa Fighting Malaria
According to the World Health Organization, malaria is on the rise again, taking a life every thirty seconds of every minute of every day around the world.
www.fightingmalaria.org/ - 57k - Mar 1, 2006 -
So how are you linking this to "post DDT use?" There is no ban on DDT in Africa. Where DDT spraying is the most cost-effective method, they use and further the World Bank even funds it!!!
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Nonsense. DDT is banned around the world. It has been approved preliminarily in extremely restrictive use in the homes of rural people. Restrictions on manufacturing, however, preclude even this limited use. There is no demonstrated evidence of resistance.
You continue to blow smoke.
Oh, it most certainly does. Perhaps you should try and figure out what DDT is first, lol.
So what is your point
well let's review what you said.
Wrong again and again and again and again. It must be difficult to never be right. DDT does not harm invertebrates. There are no studies showing resistance to DDT. It IS a wonder pesticide. Saying it ain't so does not mean it ain't so.
There is a TON of research that refutes your above statements. When you figure out what DDT is and learn how to operate a database query, you will see that DDT can in fact harm inverts. But I guess me saying so with documentation means nothing while you saying it IS a wonder pesticide is the definitive answer. Ignorance is bliss i suppose.
Unreal... that is honestly all i can say. you'd think someone with access to a computer could figure out there is no ban on DDT for use in fighting malaria. Why not check out this...
there is no ban on DDT Malaria Foundation International
Trends in malaria morbidity and mortality in Sri Lanka.
DT and Malathion are no longer recommended since An. culicifacies and An. subpictus has been found resistant. Figure 2 in their paper shows that since 2000, malaria incidence has been reduced by a factor of 100 without any use of DDT. Figures 3 and 4 show that Galle has been free of malaria for years.
I don't know why i even waste my time.
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