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Afghan judge says courts will not bow to outside pressure in Christian convert case
jurist.law.pitt.edu ^ | Thursday, March 23, 2006 | Jeannie Shawl

Posted on 03/23/2006 5:04:32 PM PST by Proctor

Thursday, March 23, 2006

Afghan judge says courts will not bow to outside pressure in Christian convert case

Jeannie Shawl at 9:57 AM ET

[JURIST] Afghanistan Supreme Court Judge Ansarullah Mawlavizada said Thursday that Afghan courts will not bow to outside pressure in the case of Abdul Rahman [JURIST report], who has been jailed for converting to Christianity and who could face the death penalty [JURIST report] under Islamic sharia law [CFR backgrounder] if convicted of apostasy. Mawlavizada said that the "judiciary will act independently and neutrally" and said that the court's will follow the country's constitution [text], but stressed that Afghanistan [JURIST news archive] is an Islamic country. Mawlavizada said that a court will begin to consider Rahman's case in the next several days and noted that if a court sentences Rahman to death, the sentence would have to be upheld by Afghan President Hamid Karzai [BBC profile].

The case has drawn international outcry and has caused problems for Karzai, who depends on the support of international troops [NATO ISAF website] to maintain stability in the country. President Bush on Wednesday called the case "deeply troubling" [transcript], saying he was concerned "that a country we helped liberate would hold a person to account because they chose a particular religion over another." Bush said that the US would use its influence to "remind [Afghanistan] that there are universal values." Reuters has more.

5:36 PM ET - Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper said Thursday that he had received assurances from Karzai that Rahman will not face the death penalty. According to Harper, Karzai assured him that the situation would be resolved "in a way that fully respects religious rights, religious freedoms and human rights." AFP has more. US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, meanwhile, called Karzai Thursday to seek a "favorable resolution" of the case. AP has more.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: abdulrahman; afghanistan; bush; christians; freedom; islam; libertarians
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"We look forward, hopefully, to a resolution of this in the very near future," Rice said, without elaborating.

Although she asked for what her spokesman called a "favorable resolution," Rice evidently did not demand specifically that the trial be halted and the defendant released.

"This is clearly an Afghan decision," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said. "They are a sovereign country."

1 posted on 03/23/2006 5:04:35 PM PST by Proctor
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To: Proctor

If this Afghan Christian is killed, all Christians currently building and securing their country should be recalled immediately.


2 posted on 03/23/2006 5:05:53 PM PST by inkling
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To: Proctor
Disgusting.

I risk my life to bring you http://www.historyofjihad.org & http://www.islamcomicbook.com/

3 posted on 03/23/2006 5:06:28 PM PST by Proctor (I risk my life to bring you http://www.historyofjihad.org & http://www.islamcomicbook.com/)
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To: Proctor

Then bow to our 2000 pound bombs you mf.


4 posted on 03/23/2006 5:07:55 PM PST by gotribe (Just tired of going easy on islam)
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To: inkling
Nothing will happen - hundreds of Christian Serbs and their churches were destroyed under NATO's watch in Kosovo as well (under both Clinton and Bush) and nothing was done either.

I risk my life to bring you http://www.historyofjihad.org & http://www.islamcomicbook.com/

5 posted on 03/23/2006 5:08:02 PM PST by Proctor (I risk my life to bring you http://www.historyofjihad.org & http://www.islamcomicbook.com/)
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To: gotribe

Laughable wishful thinking.


6 posted on 03/23/2006 5:08:33 PM PST by Proctor (I risk my life to bring you http://www.historyofjihad.org & http://www.islamcomicbook.com/)
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To: Proctor
"This is clearly an Afghan decision," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said. "They are a sovereign country."

What I find amazing about this is that it's suddenly news. These type situations have been going on for YEARS, anyone that has been/lived in these craphole islam countries knows this....we're talking about people that rub sticks together to make fire....why is this suddenly a surprise to the MSM, other than to embarrass President Bush?

7 posted on 03/23/2006 5:10:59 PM PST by Decepticon (The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day (NRA)
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To: Proctor

There are two possibilities. This could be a test case where Sharia law will be tested. If the case is dismissed it would be a huge step forward for Afghanistan. The problem is that if carried forward it will be a few steps backward to 5 years ago.

The second possibility is that this is a power squabble between the courts and the rest of the government. Technically, according to the Afghan constitution this particular application of Sharia law is unconstitutional. To what degree does the executive/legislative branch of the Afghan government have the power to intervene in a judicial matter where the court is inappropriately interpreting the constitution.

The only way to sidestep this would be for a pardon, but that would change absolutely nothing in regards the precedents and primacy of the conflicting legal theories (and I use that word loosely) incorporated into the Afghan constitution. From an intellectual point of view this is an interesting case, but from a more human point of view I'm appalled at the risk involved. Perhaps Karzai will wait to see the outcome of the trial and if the man is convicted and sentenced he will issue a pardon, and have the government start action on amending the constitution.


8 posted on 03/23/2006 5:13:21 PM PST by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: inkling
This is a clear indication of the incompatibility of Islam and Christianity. This may be their sovereign right as a nation, but we should treat Muslims with all the respect that a death cult demands. If this man is executed or found not guilty by reason of insanity (He converted to Christianity), then there should be severe consequences on their judicial system and a complete withdrawal of support by the West of their judges.
9 posted on 03/23/2006 5:17:22 PM PST by Truth29
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To: Proctor
Mawlavizada said that the "judiciary will act independently and neutrally" and said that the court's will follow the country's constitution [text], but stressed that Afghanistan [JURIST news archive] is an Islamic country.

A stupid allowance by your betters, and a serious error that I hope the next visit by American troops will not repeat...
And here's hoping that we can have a president someday who will have the cojones to say, "you have 10 minutes to reconsider that stupid statment". What's the value of power if you allow dumber than rocks idiots to exercise that kind of arrogance?

10 posted on 03/23/2006 5:18:45 PM PST by Publius6961 (Multiculturalism is the white flag of a dying country)
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To: Proctor

So, what do the anti-capital-punishment crowd think about this?


11 posted on 03/23/2006 5:18:51 PM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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To: inkling

He won't be killed. He will be deported in some sort of deal and it will go down the memory hole at freerepublic.


12 posted on 03/23/2006 5:19:09 PM PST by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Decepticon
Excuse me - you are upset that this makes Bush's policy look bad? Maybe Bush suddenly discovered Christian persecution by Muslim hands? Maybe he should be embarrassed that this is the outcome of the policy he put in place?

Worry about Mr. Abdul Rahman and less so how the president may feel embarrassed that his policy may result in a Christian's martyrdom.

Bush never once mention the hundreds of Churches and Christians Kosovo Muslims destroyed on his watch - maybe it is time he was embarrassed a little bit and he take back his words that "Islam is a Religion of Peace".

Or is confronting Bush on this verbotten party policy because he is the Dear Leader?

George Bush said "It is deeply troubling that a country we helped liberate is - would hold a person to account because they chose a particular religion over another."

In January 2004, Bush had this to say about Afghanistan:

"We’re making good progress, we really are, in parts of the world. Afghanistan has now got a constitution which talks about freedom of religion and talks about women’s rights."

What I find amazing about this is that it's suddenly Bush finds the situation in Afghanistan 'troubling'. That is embarrassing.

13 posted on 03/23/2006 5:19:19 PM PST by Proctor (I risk my life to bring you http://www.historyofjihad.org & http://www.islamcomicbook.com/)
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To: RightWhale

?


14 posted on 03/23/2006 5:20:48 PM PST by Proctor (I risk my life to bring you http://www.historyofjihad.org & http://www.islamcomicbook.com/)
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To: Proctor

They won't go through with it......


15 posted on 03/23/2006 5:21:25 PM PST by Blackirish (Spring yeah)
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To: Proctor

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, never thought a Moose would actually go for the Gospel? Fooled you, Jorge.


16 posted on 03/23/2006 5:21:32 PM PST by The Red Zone
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To: Austin Willard Wright

Too many '1984' style memory holes....


17 posted on 03/23/2006 5:21:44 PM PST by Proctor (I risk my life to bring you http://www.historyofjihad.org & http://www.islamcomicbook.com/)
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To: Proctor
Seems to me President Karzai is going to have to shoot Judge Ansarullah Mawlavizada himself now that the old bird has declined to commit suicide.

Starting a pool: My guess is no later than Noon tomorrow, Kabul time.

18 posted on 03/23/2006 5:21:45 PM PST by muawiyah (-)
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To: Blackirish
They won't go through with it......

Is that supposed to make it better? That is the talking point response or something?

19 posted on 03/23/2006 5:22:50 PM PST by Proctor (I risk my life to bring you http://www.historyofjihad.org & http://www.islamcomicbook.com/)
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To: Proctor

Why is he facing any charges?


20 posted on 03/23/2006 5:23:04 PM PST by ncountylee (Dead terrorists smell like victory)
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To: Proctor

Well...perhaps the memory hole, like an overflowed septic tank, can only stand too much.


21 posted on 03/23/2006 5:23:46 PM PST by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Proctor

Better for the guy.


22 posted on 03/23/2006 5:23:53 PM PST by Blackirish (Spring yeah)
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To: Proctor

Karzai could veto the sentence, but what if he gets knocked off for a mad dog.


23 posted on 03/23/2006 5:24:01 PM PST by The Red Zone
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To: Proctor
In January 2004, Bush had this to say about Afghanistan:

"We're making good progress, we really are, in parts of the world. Afghanistan has now got a constitution which talks about freedom of religion and talks about women's rights."

"Talk is cheap."

Understood that this stuff goes on in other countries, but the US took an active role in setting THIS country up, and President Bush said (see above) about it.

He set an expectation. He could have set it lower. That reasonable people are "disappointed" (to put it very mildly) should not come as a surpise to ANYBODY.

24 posted on 03/23/2006 5:24:56 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: Austin Willard Wright

They'll probably move him to my neighborhood ~ either next door to the Palestinians, or across from the Iraqi General ~ maybe even up where Mengestu's closest relatives (who he was trying to kill) lived. House is vacant at the moment ~ and, there are a lot of Karzai family members in the area.


25 posted on 03/23/2006 5:25:41 PM PST by muawiyah (-)
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To: Austin Willard Wright
He won't be killed. He will be deported in some sort of deal

Even if so, the damage will have been done. The example will have been made and emphasized that any Muslim who does not toe the line faces execution and may evade that punishment only through extraordinary means.

Most will not press to test.

26 posted on 03/23/2006 5:25:50 PM PST by JCEccles
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To: Decepticon

Why do you turn this into something about Bush?

The initial reaction to this story around here was quite defensinve, along the lines of "So that means we should leave Afghanistan! /sarcasm!!"


27 posted on 03/23/2006 5:25:51 PM PST by Sometimes A River (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/46031)
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To: Proctor
Worry about Mr. Abdul Rahman and less so how the president may feel embarrassed that his policy may result in a Christian's martyrdom.

Re-read my post. I said it was amazing that suddenly the MSM discovered Christian persecution....and believe me bud I know a heck of a lot more about it than you do....unless you've spent more time in pakistan, egypt and other mid-east crapholes than I have.

28 posted on 03/23/2006 5:27:30 PM PST by Decepticon (The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day (NRA)
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To: Cboldt
That reasonable people are "disappointed" (to put it very mildly) should not come as a surpise to ANYBODY.

Seems Bush is surprised.

No one could have foreseen Hamas winning the election - now they say no one could foresee Afghanistan prepare to execute Christians under Sharia law?

enough.

29 posted on 03/23/2006 5:27:42 PM PST by Proctor (I risk my life to bring you http://www.historyofjihad.org & http://www.islamcomicbook.com/)
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To: inkling

I agree. They didn't mind our Christian soldiers liberating them. They take money from Christian taxpayers.


30 posted on 03/23/2006 5:30:21 PM PST by kdot
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To: ncountylee
Why is he facing any charges?

The man who converted to Christianity? Because he got caught in Afghanistan with a Bible.

31 posted on 03/23/2006 5:30:50 PM PST by Kieri (Dump "Dangerously Incompetent" Debbie, Support Keith Butler for Senate)
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To: Decepticon
What I find telling is that you inserted the MSM in this as if they are somehow hyping up the story to get Bush. A way to defend Bush on the sly over this - I know - I read several of the talking points memos (the other talking point is that this will blow over because they will release him, etc.).

as much as I hate the MSM - and I do - this story is no hype and deserves the coverage.

32 posted on 03/23/2006 5:31:04 PM PST by Proctor (I risk my life to bring you http://www.historyofjihad.org & http://www.islamcomicbook.com/)
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To: JCEccles

Well at least he will get away from his wife who wants him cut into pieces.


33 posted on 03/23/2006 5:33:47 PM PST by Blackirish (Spring yeah)
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To: Proctor
A way to defend Bush on the sly over this - I know - I read several of the talking points memos (the other talking point is that this will blow over because they will release him, etc.).

I'm sorry, you obviously have me confused with someone else...there's a "find in forum" user search function if you are actually interesting in knowing any FReepers previous posts/positions. Try using it sometime....

34 posted on 03/23/2006 5:37:02 PM PST by Decepticon (The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day (NRA)
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To: Proctor; ValenB4
"We’re making good progress, we really are, in parts of the world. Afghanistan has now got a constitution which talks about freedom of religion and talks about women’s rights

And that's all it does George. Talk. Why? Because conservatives, not Republicans, have been stating for some time that a Western form of democracy will not fly in these nations. It has nothing to do with the quality of the people, their race, or anything of the sort. It has to do with the fact that the religion they choose to follow is incompatible with western ideals or forms of government. You can't 'spread democracy' in regions that don't want democracy, no matter how many rigged polls show the 'majority' of the people want it. They see the elections and all the other nonsense only as a way to get forces out of their nation. Then they will use those purple fingers to elect a theocracy. And within a generation, the Iraq/Iran relations will be much closer to final unification.

Expect issues like this to arise within Iraq by the end of the decade, if not sooner. Unfortunately my original timetable idea of theocracy in Iraq may have to be pushed up by 10-15 years. We could have a Persian superstate within our lifetimes.

35 posted on 03/23/2006 5:37:24 PM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: Proctor

If so, we go.


36 posted on 03/23/2006 5:37:46 PM PST by edcoil (Reality doesn't say much - doesn't need too)
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To: Proctor

I like it...

American tax dollars at work in Afganistan... job well done!

Another "liberatated" country!

WTF!!!!!


37 posted on 03/23/2006 5:38:49 PM PST by observer5 ("Better violate the rights of a few, than of all!)
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To: Proctor

"This is clearly an Afghan decision," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said. "They are a sovereign country."

So when Saddam ran the show it wasn't?

What a bunch of BS!

W is squandering everything!!!


38 posted on 03/23/2006 5:41:56 PM PST by observer5 ("Better violate the rights of a few, than of all!)
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To: ncountylee
Why is he facing any charges?

Because Muhammad said: "He who relinquishes his faith, kill him". This was recorded in Sahi of al-Bukhari (part 9, p.19). A number of Islamic scholars also ascribe this statement to Muhammad. Let me suggest that you read "Behind the Veil - Unmasking Islam" by Abd El Achafi. This, and other books on Islam, can be purchased from Voice of the Martyrs .

39 posted on 03/23/2006 5:55:50 PM PST by Former Fetus (fetuses are 100% pro-life, they just don't vote yet!)
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To: Proctor
What became of the President's "religion of peace" mantra?

What kind of "religion of peace" executes those who choose another religion?

This situation gives the lie to the entire "religion of peace" argument. This is another example of an Islamic nation's government using Islam to authorize the murder of non-Muslims.

I wish non-Muslims like George W. Bush would stop apologizing for the barbarism of barbarians.

This is a global war against barbarians who define their murderous intolerance by pointing to their own violence-based scriptures.

Islam is a dangerous and violent religion incompatible with the civilized world.

40 posted on 03/23/2006 5:55:52 PM PST by NoControllingLegalAuthority
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To: Proctor

Sadly, you are absolutely right.


41 posted on 03/23/2006 6:08:05 PM PST by Malesherbes
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To: NoControllingLegalAuthority
What became of the President's "religion of peace" mantra?

Exactly. This is one of my many problems with Bush. He lied (or stated in ignorance), neither is excusable, that Islam is a religion of peace.

Bush thinks a democracy (or democratic republic) is good enough to help make things better in the middle east. The values of the people in the democracy determine what the nation will be like. We shouldn't sacrifice American blood to establish a new nation that does not have as its foundation the same rights we have in America (Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Expression, Freedom of the Press, etc). These rights should have been guaranteed in Afghanistan and likewise in Iraq, why weren't they?

42 posted on 03/23/2006 6:12:02 PM PST by johnwayne
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To: NoControllingLegalAuthority
What became of the President's "religion of peace" mantra?

I think it just became another casualty of war. People are finally waking up to the true objectives of Islam. Even some of the MSM is now talking about it. I never thought that would happen.

43 posted on 03/23/2006 6:13:45 PM PST by vox humana
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To: ncountylee

You asked -- "Why is he facing any charges?"

He's facing the charge of converting to another religion from Islam. That's a crime in Islam. That's a crime that has the death penalty.

This is not a joke. It's really a crime. If you leave Islam, you're in danger of either being murdered (and no Muslim would be held accountable for murdering an infidel) -- or -- being convicted and killed as a penalty of this crime.

And, everyone who is born into a Muslim family is *automatically* a Muslim (at the instant of birth). Since no one can leave without being murdered, you can see why Islam is "growing" very quickly.

Regards,
Star Traveler


44 posted on 03/23/2006 6:15:18 PM PST by Star Traveler
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To: Blackirish

You said -- "They won't go through with it......"

That might be what some politicians over there may want -- but -- that's not true of the judge or the Muslim clerics -- or -- even his own relatives, not to say anything about the Muslim public. It's his relatives that turned him into the authorities.

You can be sure that his relatives knew what they were doing and yet they were prepared to have the authorities kill him for such a crime. That gives you the mentality of the Muslims and the Islamic religion.

Regards,
Star Traveler


45 posted on 03/23/2006 6:19:33 PM PST by Star Traveler
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To: Decepticon
I'm sorry, you obviously have me confused with someone else...there's a "find in forum" user search function if you are actually interesting in knowing any FReepers previous posts/positions. Try using it sometime....

Maybe I did confuse you with someone else because your talking points were so alike. Behold:

why is this suddenly a surprise to the MSM, other than to embarrass President Bush? 7 posted on 03/23/2006 5:10:59 PM PST by Decepticon

The media here in the U.S. is promoting this case too. They've suddenly discovered Christian persecution because they think they can use it to embarass the president. 1 posted on 03/22/2006 9:40:43 PM PST by Mr. Silverback

46 posted on 03/23/2006 6:22:12 PM PST by Proctor (I risk my life to bring you http://www.historyofjihad.org & http://www.islamcomicbook.com/)
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To: billbears

What Republicans have morphed into are not conservatives.


47 posted on 03/23/2006 6:23:13 PM PST by Proctor (I risk my life to bring you http://www.historyofjihad.org & http://www.islamcomicbook.com/)
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To: johnwayne; NoControllingLegalAuthority

I think they stumbled into 'democracy' (and by that I mean just holding elections) as a catch all way to get a quick result to show progress because real nation building lasts generations.


48 posted on 03/23/2006 6:25:56 PM PST by Proctor (I risk my life to bring you http://www.historyofjihad.org & http://www.islamcomicbook.com/)
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To: muawiyah

some CIA hired gun should have quietly done that - last week - with full deniability of course, to send the needed message here.


49 posted on 03/23/2006 6:28:37 PM PST by oceanview
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To: oceanview

Naw, Afghans will only understand it if Karzai does it himself ~ personally.


50 posted on 03/23/2006 6:30:25 PM PST by muawiyah (-)
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