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Feinstein Calls Illegals Good 'Citizens', Lou Lets Loose
Today Show/NewsBusters ^ | Mark Finkelstein

Posted on 03/28/2006 5:20:43 AM PST by governsleastgovernsbest

by Mark Finkelstein

March 28, 2006

In all its cacophony and moments of absurdity, this morning's Today show segment on immigration was a supremely edifying example of the confusion, high emotion and complexity of the immigration debate. Matters reached their Alice-in-Wonderland apotheosis when Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California was shown in a Senate committee arguing that illegal immigrants are good . . . 'citizens.' Said Feinstein:

"They pay taxes, their children are Americans, they go to schools, they're good citizens and they're needed."

This was in line with the fait accompli argument advanced by La Raza representative Janet Murguia. She referred to what she estimated as the 11-12 million illegal aliens in the country as "people are working in backbreaking work that nobody else wants to do in this country. We need to . . . understand that they are already part of this country."

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Mexico; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: 109th; aliens; amnesty; anarchy; borders; bordersecurity; campbellbrown; dobbs; feinstein; illegalaliens; immigration; laraza; loudobbs; mediabias; nbc; racism; todayshow
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To: Restorer
They way out of this is to create new rules that all businesses must follow.

Create new rules? How about enforcing the rules we already have! It's *already* illegal to hire people off the books, enforce it, for crying out loud!!

the infowarrior

181 posted on 03/28/2006 10:12:27 AM PST by infowarrior (The GOP runs the US, the Dems run their mouths... Freeper HardStarboard)
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To: cripplecreek
I actually heard one of the idiots on Cavuto's show yesterday say "Why should an American citizen have any more right to a job than an illegal alien?"

What FReeper was that???

182 posted on 03/28/2006 10:17:53 AM PST by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the whole trailer park...)
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To: sgribbley

they will. basically, a guest worker program is all about businesses who now cannot currently (openly) hire illegals directly - getting access to a new lower cost labor pool. how long will it take home depot to train someone to move lumber, stack boxes, etc? About an hour. Everyone tends to think that the guest worker program will look like the employment model we have today - these folks filling jobs as dishwashers, janitors and maids, construction trades, food service, etc. It won't, those US businesses hire illegals now - they want illegals, they don't want to pay taxes, they don't want guest workers.

who wants guest workers then? Walmart, Home Depot, McDonalds, etc. A wide range of US businesses will be more then happy to hire these folks - lowering their wage footprint. And many americans rely on exactly those kinds of service jobs for their own livlihoods - and those people will now have to compete with guest workers for those jobs.

183 posted on 03/28/2006 10:25:55 AM PST by oceanview
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To: governsleastgovernsbest


184 posted on 03/28/2006 10:29:43 AM PST by lowbridge (I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather. Not screaming, like his passengers.)
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To: governsleastgovernsbest

Does that include MS-13?

185 posted on 03/28/2006 10:48:11 AM PST by massgopguy (massgopguy)
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To: cripplecreek

"Imagine the future of America when we become a mixture of Canadian socialism and Mexican feudalism."

This sentence goes right to the heart of the matter. Most of us know very little about Mexico, the few wealthy families that control it, the elites' contempt of and indifference to the majority of Mexicans of indigenous indian descent, the absence of even the most basic of civil rights. La Raza's (The Race) motto is, "Everything for Latins. Nothing for the rest."

We know as little about Canada, which has never surrendered its colonial attitudes, nor made an effort to build a nation with a coherent political philosophy. Little is understood here of the influence of "The Manse," again, a near feudal institution - though not official. The wealth and political power of Canada's elites would stagger those who view Canadian socialism as all encompassing in Canada. Of course, socialism is always enforced from above, with the enforcers exempt from its strictures, but Canada presents a picture of an upper class so entrenched and essentially untaxed, that it exists almost ex parte.

Canada is hailed by the ignorant as a "pacifist" nation, superior to the barbarians below their border. Since, I think around 1952, the percentage of Canada's GNP appropriated for defense has been less than one percent. Canada nestles in the protective arm of the USA and bites us to the bone.

You are right. Socialism and feudalism. That is not just a glib epigram. It is our future.

186 posted on 03/28/2006 11:32:46 AM PST by Barset
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To: governsleastgovernsbest
""They pay taxes, their children are Americans, they go to schools, they're good citizens and they're needed."

This was in line with the fait accompli argument advanced by La Raza representative Janet Murguia . . .

The "Squeaky Hinge Syndrome" strikes again. La Raza stages huge protest in La La Land and both parties take detailed notes. Meanwhile, the silent majority just go quietly to work every day and drive home exhausted. Just like blind sheep being led to slaughter. The American Way of Life: Working longer and longer hours while the powers that be scheme behind closed doors. They plot to steal our money through taxes and steal our retirements through corporate bankruptcies. They export our jobs overseas and import more and more cheap junk from foreign nations. The sheeple gobble up more and more cheap junk, happy to save a few dollars. Then the people in power hire lobbyists to pass out millions to politicians in D.C. Money buys votes, money buys more power. The Demopublicans have sold our country down the drain.

The writing is on the walls like bright painted graffiti on Los Angeles barrio schools. "Viva La Raza! Viva Zapatistas!"

187 posted on 03/28/2006 11:33:25 AM PST by ex-Texan (Matthew 7:1 through 6)
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To: blueberry12

That's fine, I welcome them....IF they do it legally as my great grand parents did.

If I was a legal immigrant that just got my citizenship, I would be thoroughly pissed off that the illegals are getting a free pass while I worked my ass off and did all the right things to get my citizenship.

188 posted on 03/28/2006 11:46:44 AM PST by looscnnn ("Olestra (Olean) applications causes memory leaks" PC Confusious)
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To: robowombat

I'm sick of walking around a dead dog lying on the sidewalk next to food vendors on Wilshire near McArthur. The Miracle Mile!

189 posted on 03/28/2006 11:51:48 AM PST by Republicus2001
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To: robowombat

I'm sick of alcoholic California senators - c'mon 12-step it Diane! rich boozehead

190 posted on 03/28/2006 11:53:30 AM PST by Republicus2001
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To: TruthShallSetYouFree

If they are such good "citizens" why are they bringing back tuberculosis in Los Angeles?

191 posted on 03/28/2006 11:57:16 AM PST by Republicus2001
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To: surelyclintonsbaddream

Diane Feinstein understands the "need" for cheap labor:

On Capitol Hill, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (DCalif.) has emerged as one of the staunchest proponents of closer U.S. relations with China, fighting for permanent most-favored-nation trading status for Beijing.

At the same time, far from the spotlight, Feinstein's husband. Richard C. Blum, has expanded his private business interests in China to the point that his firm is now a prominent investor inside the communist nation.

Feinstein is a member of the elite class, she's got hers, and we're just the "little people." I wonder if when she visits San Francisco, if the cops let her carry her pistol, for which she has a permit.

192 posted on 03/28/2006 12:06:43 PM PST by CATravelAgent (Unless you're the lead dog, the view is always the same)
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To: hedgetrimmer
Fineswine needs to hear from every Californian about this most important issue. She has failed to represent us.

193 posted on 03/28/2006 12:10:29 PM PST by janetgreen (The White House fiddles while America is invaded)
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To: looscnnn
"If I was a legal immigrant that just got my citizenship, I would be thoroughly pissed off that the illegals are getting a free pass while I worked my ass off and did all the right things to get my citizenship."

Thoroughly pissed off?........that nowhere describes how I personally feel, absolute rage doesn't even come close. How I really feel would get me banned from here for life.......f-feinstein has been told though both by email and phone, and I didn't sugar-coat my words.
194 posted on 03/28/2006 12:13:38 PM PST by AmeriBrit (A must see:
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To: AmeriBrit
I apologize that I could not put into words what you must feel. My not having to go through what you and others like you makes it difficult to accurately determine how I would feel if that was the case. Thank you for doing things the right way, I hope you prosper well.
195 posted on 03/28/2006 12:36:13 PM PST by looscnnn ("Olestra (Olean) applications causes memory leaks" PC Confusious)
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To: All

The current or old immigration law on the books...

Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)

"Any person who ... encourage-, or induces an alien to ... reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such ... residence is ... in violation of law, shall be punished as provided ... for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs ... fined under title 18 ... imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both," Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:

* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S, or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or

* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.

Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime. Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.

Recruitment and Employment of Illegal Aliens

It is unlawful to hire an alien, to recruit an alien, or to refer an alien for a fee, knowing the alien is unauthorized to work in the United States. It is equally unlawful to continue to employ an alien knowing that the alien is unauthorized to work. Employers may give preference in recruitment and hiring to a U.S. citizen over an alien with work authorization only where the U.S. citizen is equally or better qualified. It is unlawful to hire an individual for employment in the United States Without complying with employment eligibility verification requirements. Requirements include examination of identity documents and completion of Form 1-9 for every employee hired. Employers must retain all 1-9s, and, with three days' advance notice, the forms must be made available for inspection. Employment includes any service or labor performed for any type of remuneration within the United States, with the exception of sporadic domestic service by an individual in a private home. Day laborers or other casual workers engaged in any compensated activity (with the above exception) are employees for purposes of immigration law. An employer includes an agent or anyone acting directly or indirectly in the interest of the employer. For purposes of verification of authorization to work, employer also means an independent contractor, or a contractor other than the person using the alien labor. The use of temporary or short-term contracts cannot be used to circumvent the employment authorization verification requirements. If employment is to be for less than the usual three days allowed for completing the 1-9 Form requirement, the form must be completed immediately at the time of hire.

An employer has constructive knowledge that an employee is an illegal unauthorized worker if a reasonable person would infer it from the facts. Constructive knowledge constituting a violation of federal law has been found where (1) the 1-9 employment eligibility form has not been properly completed, including supporting documentation, (2) the employer has learned from other individuals, media reports, or any source of information available to the employer that the alien is unauthorized to work, or (3) the employer acts with reckless disregard for the legal consequences of permitting a third party to provide or introduce an illegal alien into the employer's work force. Knowledge cannot be inferred solely on the basis of an individual's accent or foreign appearance.

Actual specific knowledge is not required. For example, a newspaper article stating that ballrooms depend on an Illegal alien work force of dance hostesses was held by the courts to be a reasonable ground for suspicion that unlawful conduct had occurred.

IT IS ILLEGAL FOR NONPROFIT OR RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS to knowingly assist an employer to violate employment sanctions, REGARDLESS OF CLAIMS THAT THEIR CONVICTIONS REQUIRE THEM TO ASSIST ALIENS. Harboring or aiding Illegal aliens is not protected by the First Amendment. It Is a felony to establish a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of federal immigration law. Violators may be fined or imprisoned for up to five years.

Encouraging and Harboring Illegal Afiens

It is a violation of law for any person to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection in any place, including any building or means of transportation, any alien who is in the United States in violation of law. HARBORING MEANS ANY CONDUCT THAT TENDS TO SUBSTANTIALLY FACILITATE AN ALIEN TO REMAIN IN THE U.S. ILLEGALLY. The sheltering need not be clandestine, and harboring covers aliens arrested outdoors, as well as in a building. This provision includes harboring an alien who entered the U.S. legally but has since lost his legal status.

An employer can be convicted of the felony of harboring illegal aliens who are his employees if he takes actions in reckless disregard of their illegal status, such as ordering them to obtain false documents, altedrig records, obstructing INS inspections, or taking other actions that facilitate the alien's illegal employment. Any person who within any 12-month period hires ten or more individuals with actual knowledge that they are illegal aliens or unauthorized workers is guilty of felony harboring. It is also a felony to encourage or induce an alien to come to or reside in the U.S. knowing or recidessly disregarding the fact that the alien's entry or residence is in violation of the law. This crime applies to any person, rather than just employers of illegal aliens. Courts have ruled that "encouraging" includes counseling illegal aliens to continue working in the U.S. or assisting them to complete applications with false statements or obvious errors. The fact that the alien is a refugee fleeing persecution is not a defense to this felony, since U.S. law and the UN Protocol on Refugees both require that a refugee must report to immigration authorities without delay upon entry to the U.S.

The penalty for felony harboring is a fine and imprisonment for up to five years. The penalty for felony alien smuggling is a fine and up to ten years' imprisonment. Where the crime causes serious bodily injury or places the life of any person in jeopardy, the penalty is a fine and up to twenty years' Imprisonment. If the criminal smuggling or harboring results in the death of any person, the penalty can include life imprisonment. Convictions for aiding, abetting, or conspiracy to commit alien smuggling or harboring, carry the same penalties. Courts can impose consecutive prison sentences for each alien smuggled or harbored. A court may order a convicted smuggler to pay restitution if the alien smuggled qualifies as a victim under the Victim and Witness Protection Act. Conspiracy to commit crimes of sheltering, harboring, or employing illegal aliens is a separate federal offense punishable by a fine of up to $10,000 or five years' imprisonment.


A person or entity having knowledge of a violation or potential violation of emiployer sanctions provisions may submit a signed written complaint to the INS office with jurisdiction over the business or residence of the potential violator, whether an employer, employee, or agent. The complaint must include the names and addresses of both the complainant and the violator, and detailed factual aflegations, including date, time, and place of the potential violation, and the specific conduct alleged to be a violation of employer sanctions. By regulation, the INS will only investigate third-party complaints that have a reasonable probability of validity. Designated INS officers and employees, and all other officers whose duty it is to enforce criminal laws, may make an arrest for violation of smuggling or harboring illegal aliens.

State and local law enforcement officials have the general power to investigate and arrest violators of federal immigration statutes without prior INS knowledge or approval, as long as they are authorized to do so by state law. There is no extant federal limitation on this authority. The 1996 immigration control legislation passed by Congress was intended to encourage states and local agencies to participate in the process of enforcing federal immigration laws. Immigration officers and local law enforcement officers may detain an individual for a brief warrant less interrogation where circumstances create a reasonable suspicion that the individual is illegally present in the U.S. Specific facts constituting a reasonable suspicion include evasive, nervous, or erratic behavior; dress or speech indicating foreign citizenship; and presence in an area known to contain a concentration of illegal aliens, Hispanic appearance alone is not sufficient. Immigration officers and police must have a valid warrant or valid employer's consent to enter workplaces or residences. Any vehicle used to transport or harbor illegal aliens, or used as a substantial part of an activity that encourages illegal aliens to come to or reside in the U.S. may be seized by an immigration officer and is subject to forfeiture, The forfeiture power covers any conveyances used within the U.S.

RICO -- Citizen Recourse

Private persons and entities may initiate civil suits to obtain injunctions and treble damages against enterprises that conspire to or actually violate federal alien smuggling, harboring, or document fraud statutes, under the RacketeerInfluenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO). The pattern of racketeering activity is defined as commission of two or more of the listed crimes. A RICO enterprise can be any individual legal entity, or a group of individuals who are not a legal entity but are associated in fact, AND CAN INCLUDE NONPROFIT ASSOCIATIONS.

Tax Crimes

Employers who aid or abet the preparation of false tax returns by falling to pay income or Sodall Security taxes for Illegal alien employees, or who knowingly make payments using false names or Social Security numbers, are subject to IRS criminal and civil sanctions. U.S. nationals who have suffered intentional discrimination because of citizenship or national origin by an employer with more than three employees may file a complaint within 180 days of the discriminatory act with the Special Counsel for Immigration-Related Unfair Employment Practices, U.S. Department of Justice. In addition to the federal statutes summarized, state laws and local ordinances controlling fair labor practices, workers compensation, zoning, safe housing and rental property, nuisance, licensing, street vending, and solicitations by contractors may also apply to activities that involve illegal aliens.

196 posted on 03/28/2006 1:55:10 PM PST by cowboy_code ("There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life.")
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To: Restorer

6. Mexicans are a mixture of indian and Spanish or other non-indigenous people.

7. Indians came here from Asia.

197 posted on 03/28/2006 2:00:38 PM PST by ShandaLear (Announcing you plans is a good way to hear God laugh. Al Swearengen, 1877óDeadwood)
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To: janetgreen
Fineswine needs to hear from every Californian about this most important issue. She has failed to represent us.

Yes Feinstein is a a miserable failure
198 posted on 03/28/2006 2:05:56 PM PST by Republicus2001
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To: ShandaLear
Right, but the Indians that today's Mexicans are a mixture of are NOT Indians from the present USA.

How a descendent of Yucatan Mayas feels like he has a claim on California or Arizona is beyond my understanding. Care to explain it to me?

199 posted on 03/28/2006 2:07:35 PM PST by Travis McGee (--- ---)
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To: ShandaLear

The list could go on quite a bit farther, I'm sure.

The one that gets me is the claim that the invasion that gave them the land is now inviolate and cannot be overridden by a later invasion.

Just about every group on earth got title to its land by invading and subjugating or dispossessing the previous inhabitants. The only significant difference is in how long ago this occurred.

200 posted on 03/28/2006 2:07:39 PM PST by Restorer
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