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Greenhouse theory smashed by biggest stone
Space and Earth science : March 14, 2006 ^ | 14 March 2006 | Vladimir Shaidurov of the Russian Academy of Sciences

Posted on 03/30/2006 4:58:23 PM PST by haole

A new theory to explain global warming was revealed at a meeting at the University of Leicester (UK) and is being considered for publication in the journal "Science First Hand". The controversial theory has nothing to do with burning fossil fuels and atmospheric carbon dioxide levels.

According to Vladimir Shaidurov of the Russian Academy of Sciences, the apparent rise in average global temperature recorded by scientists over the last hundred years or so could be due to atmospheric changes that are not connected to human emissions of carbon dioxide from the burning of natural gas and oil. Shaidurov explained how changes in the amount of ice crystals at high altitude could damage the layer of thin, high altitude clouds found in the mesosphere that reduce the amount of warming solar radiation reaching the earth's surface.

Shaidurov has used a detailed analysis of the mean temperature change by year for the last 140 years and explains that there was a slight decrease in temperature until the early twentieth century. This flies in the face of current global warming theories that blame a rise in temperature on rising carbon dioxide emissions since the start of the industrial revolution. Shaidurov, however, suggests that the rise, which began between 1906 and 1909, could have had a very different cause, which he believes was the massive Tunguska Event, which rocked a remote part of Siberia, northwest of Lake Baikal on the 30th June 1908.

The Tunguska Event, sometimes known as the Tungus Meteorite is thought to have resulted from an asteroid or comet entering the earth's atmosphere and exploding. The event released as much energy as fifteen one-megaton atomic bombs. As well as blasting an enormous amount of dust into the atmosphere, felling 60 million trees over an area of more than 2000 square kilometres. Shaidurov suggests that this explosion would have caused "considerable stirring of the high layers of atmosphere and change its structure." Such meteoric disruption was the trigger for the subsequent rise in global temperatures.

Global warming is thought to be caused by the "greenhouse effect". Energy from the sun reaches the earth's surface and warms it, without the greenhouse effect most of this energy is then lost as the heat radiates back into space. However, the presence of so-called greenhouse gases at high altitude absorb much of this energy and then radiate a proportion back towards the earth's surface. Causing temperatures to rise.

Many natural gases and some of those released by conventional power stations, vehicle and aircraft exhausts act as greenhouse gases. Carbon dioxide, natural gas, or methane, and chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) are all potent greenhouse gases. Carbon dioxide and methane are found naturally in the atmosphere, but it is the gradual rise in levels of these gases since the industrial revolution, and in particular the beginning of the twentieth century, that scientists have blamed for the gradual rise in recorded global temperature. Attempts to reverse global warming, such as the Kyoto Protocol, have centred on controlling and even reducing CO2 emissions.

However, the most potent greenhouse gas is water, explains Shaidurov and it is this compound on which his study focuses. According to Shaidurov, only small changes in the atmospheric levels of water, in the form of vapour and ice crystals can contribute to significant changes to the temperature of the earth's surface, which far outweighs the effects of carbon dioxide and other gases released by human activities. Just a rise of 1% of water vapour could raise the global average temperature of Earth's surface more then 4 degrees Celsius.

The role of water vapour in controlling our planet's temperature was hinted at almost 150 years ago by Irish scientist John Tyndall. Tyndall, who also provided an explanation as to why the sky is blue, explained the problem: "The strongest radiant heat absorber, is the most important gas controlling Earth's temperature. Without water vapour, he wrote, the Earth's surface would be 'held fast in the iron grip of frost'." Thin clouds at high altitude allow sunlight to reach the earth's surface, but reflect back radiated heat, acting as an insulating greenhouse layer.

Water vapour levels are even less within our control than CO2 levels. According to Andrew E. Dessler of the Texas A & M University writing in 'The Science and Politics of Global Climate Change', "Human activities do not control all greenhouse gases, however. The most powerful greenhouse gas in the atmosphere is water vapour, he says, "Human activities have little direct control over its atmospheric abundance, which is controlled instead by the worldwide balance between evaporation from the oceans and precipitation."

As such, Shaidurov has concluded that only an enormous natural phenomenon, such as an asteroid or comet impact or airburst, could seriously disturb atmospheric water levels, destroying persistent so-called 'silver', or noctilucent, clouds composed of ice crystals in the high altitude mesosphere (50 to 85km). The Tunguska Event was just such an event, and coincides with the period of time during which global temperatures appear to have been rising the most steadily - the twentieth century. There are many hypothetical mechanisms of how this mesosphere catastrophe might have occurred, and future research is needed to provide a definitive answer.

Source: University of Leicester


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: algore; catastrophism; climatechange; globalwarming; globalwarminghoax; godsgravesglyphs; greenies; greenousegases; kyoto; tunguska
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wanna bet this does not go on cnn......nbcbabcs,,,,
1 posted on 03/30/2006 4:58:25 PM PST by haole
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To: haole
the most potent greenhouse gas is water

I knew it: Dihydro Monoxide rears it's ugly head again!

Will we ever be free from this scourge?

2 posted on 03/30/2006 5:05:33 PM PST by Gator101
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To: haole

Even if it did get reported, it's simply a different model. No more or less valid than the pro-global warming models, since they are all based on what amounts to personal prejudice.


3 posted on 03/30/2006 5:06:09 PM PST by MarcusTulliusCicero
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To: haole; neverdem; Calpernia; Cyber Liberty; patton
Things that make you go Hmmmmmmn.

Such impacts (WITH or WITHOUT visible surface craters!) could go a long ways explaining the previous Ice Ages and subsequent warming periods.

Which, obviously, were caused by early Neanderthals burning their campfires too long.
4 posted on 03/30/2006 5:12:45 PM PST by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: haole

IMHO, this Russian fella is on to something.


5 posted on 03/30/2006 5:14:36 PM PST by upchuck (Wikipedia.com - the most unbelievable web site in the world.)
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To: MarcusTulliusCicero
No more or less valid than the pro-global warming models

Except that the Pro-global warming theory strongly suggests that if we do not change our ways, we are doomed, doomed, I SAY!!

Whereas, this theory seems to have earth history on it's side. After all we have gone through warm-cold-warm trends in the past.

The P-GW's seem to ignore that fact.

6 posted on 03/30/2006 5:15:02 PM PST by Michael.SF. (Well, Kerry did win the exit polls.)
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To: upchuck
Oh, I forgot...

Thank you for NOT excerpting this article.

7 posted on 03/30/2006 5:15:18 PM PST by upchuck (Wikipedia.com - the most unbelievable web site in the world.)
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To: haole

bttt


8 posted on 03/30/2006 5:17:49 PM PST by true_blue_texican ((grateful Texican!!))
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To: haole
"The Tunguska Event was just such an event, and coincides with the period of time during which global temperatures appear to have been rising the most steadily - the twentieth century."

Do we know for sure that the temperature has only been steadily rising for the last 100-150 years. How do we know it hasn't been rising for the last 300, 500, 1000, 2000, 5000, 10,000, or a million years? Or how do we know that it doesn't have a fluctuation cycle that it goes through every 200 years?

9 posted on 03/30/2006 5:18:41 PM PST by uptoolate
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To: haole

No no this scientist is wrong, global warming is killing us all and its George Bush's fault because he favors big oil etc. etc. We all believe this because some Hollywoood stars and MSM talking heads are telling us to. Scientific theories have nothing to do with it unless they can be used to implicate Bush. </sarcasm


10 posted on 03/30/2006 5:19:25 PM PST by The Great RJ ("Mir wölle bleiwen wat mir sin" or "We want to remain what we are." ..Luxembourg motto)
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To: haole
Hoooo boy. The Watermelons are not gonna like this.

Look for a serious and concerted effort to smear Mr. Vladimir Shaidurov in the near future.

11 posted on 03/30/2006 5:20:13 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (I can't complain...but sometimes I still do.)
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To: haole

Time to repeat this: let's concede for the sake of argument that there is such a thing as global warming created and caused by the rapid influx of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere by fossil fuels. If that is the case, humanity will need the speed, intelligence, and capacity that arises from individual liberty and capitalism to confront the problem. One thing is more certain that the impact, or lack thereof, of global warming - top-down bureaucratic solutions will fail.

On the other hand... think of all the jobs for underemployed graduate students in the creation of that bureaucracy! And since global warming will take centuries to resolve.... it's an elite wonderland. Maybe they'll keep the jets for themselves and give the rest of us bicycles. The elites will need the air conditioning to think and restructure climate models; the rest of us can use hand fans to stay cool. The elites will also need larger homes, too, because of their tireless efforts to make the world a better place; the rest of us can live in efficient apartments to save energy and space.

To think these guys accuse Bush of concocting an "endless war" to create tyranny. What chutzpah.


12 posted on 03/30/2006 5:22:26 PM PST by redpoll (redpoll)
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To: Michael.SF.

My point though, was that, yet again, we are given claims based solely on computer modeling. Simply because we like the predictions of this model better doesn't make it any more scientific or accurate or predictive.


13 posted on 03/30/2006 5:23:28 PM PST by MarcusTulliusCicero
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To: haole

I'm quite sure the Demos will find some way to blame this on George Bush.


14 posted on 03/30/2006 5:23:38 PM PST by curmudgeonII (One man...and the Lord...are a majority.)
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To: uptoolate
How do we know it hasn't been rising for the last 300, 500, 1000, 2000, 5000, 10,000, or a million years?

Dennis Miller's HBO special bought up the reliability of temps taken 100 years ago. I think he talked about a guy taking a thermometer with him on the way to the outhouse and that is what we're using as proof of Global Warming!!

15 posted on 03/30/2006 5:29:10 PM PST by BallyBill (Serial Hit-N-Run poster)
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To: haole

read later


16 posted on 03/30/2006 5:32:11 PM PST by conservativewasp (Liberals lie for sport and hate our country.)
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To: Gator101

Dihydrogenmonoxide (DHMO) is colorless, odorless, tasteless, and kills uncounted thousands of people every year. Most of these deaths are caused by accidental inhalation of DHMO, but the danger of DHMO do not end there. Prolonged exposure to its solid form causes severe tissue damage. Symptoms of DHMO ingestion can include excessive sweating and urination, and possibly a bloated feeling, nausea, vomiting and body electrolyte imbalance. For those who have become dependent, DHMO withdrawal means certain death.

DHMO:

* is also known as hydric acid, and is the major component of acid rain,
*
contributes to the "greenhouse effect",
*
may cause severe burns,
*
contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape,
*
accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals,
*
may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes,
*
has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.

Contamination is reaching epidemic proportions!

Quantities of DHMO have been found in almost every stream, lake and reservoir in America today. The pollution is global, and the contaminant has even been found in Antarctic ice. In the Midwest alone DHMO has caused millions of dollars of property damage.

Despite the danger, DHMO is often used:

* as an industrial solvent and coolant,
*
in nuclear power plants,
*
in the production of Styrofoam,
*
as a fire retardant,
*
in many forms of cruel animal research,
*
in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical,
*
as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products.

Companies dump waste DHMO into rivers and the ocean, and nothing can be done to stop them because this practice is still legal. The impact on wildlife is extreme, and we cannot afford to ignore it any longer!

The horror must be stopped!

The American government has refused to ban production, distribution, or use of the damaging chemical due to its "importance to the economical health of this nation". In fact, the navy and other military organizations are conducting experiments with DHMO, and designing multi-billion dollar devices to control and utilize it during warfare situations. Hundreds of military research facilities receive tons of it through a highly sophisticated underground distribution network. Many store large quantities for later use.

It's not too late!

Act NOW to prevent further contamination. Find out more about this dangerous chemical. What you don't know can hurt you and others throughout the world.


17 posted on 03/30/2006 5:38:07 PM PST by festus (The constitution may be flawed but its a whole lot better than what we have now.)
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To: uptoolate

Impossible. Tunguska was clearly Tesla trying to contact that polar expedition from his tower and it all went badly wrong.

I read it on the internet so it must be true.


18 posted on 03/30/2006 5:39:20 PM PST by festus (The constitution may be flawed but its a whole lot better than what we have now.)
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To: haole
Big events have big effects and the Tunguska Event was pretty damn big.
Any climate scientist who hasn't sold his soul for fame and bucks knows that water vapor in the atmosphere is the big daddy of global warming.

Sadly we live in a strange new World where hard science has willingly debased truth to satisfy the casual whim of the vogue.
19 posted on 03/30/2006 5:49:25 PM PST by the final gentleman
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To: haole

This won't get printed anywhere except on the blogs.


20 posted on 03/30/2006 5:50:00 PM PST by taxesareforever (Never forget Matt Maupin)
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To: festus

Styrofoam is a trade name of the Dow Chemical company. Styrofoam is extruded polystyrene. There is NO water used in the production of Styrofoam. There is some water (steam) used to produce expdanded polystyrene (bead board) but none in extruded polystyrene (Styrofoam).


21 posted on 03/30/2006 5:53:36 PM PST by mrmargaritaville
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To: Gator101
Dihydro Monoxide rears it's ugly head again!

I'm thinking about marketing a "detector" for that.

giggle.

I just know there would be people that would buy it.....

22 posted on 03/30/2006 5:53:49 PM PST by LasVegasMac (Islam........not fit for human consumption.)
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To: mrmargaritaville

LOL. Are you seriously analyzing that post for technical correctness ?


23 posted on 03/30/2006 5:58:48 PM PST by festus (The constitution may be flawed but its a whole lot better than what we have now.)
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To: festus

He must work(ed) for Dow.

I have delivered some freight to Dow and I can tell you as a matter of fact that I saw an employee ingesting DHMO out of some sort of DHMO projection unit, so it must be used in the production to some extent.


24 posted on 03/30/2006 6:04:47 PM PST by uptoolate
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To: uptoolate

I know a Dow executive and when I was at his house I know for a fact that DHMO was used in the preparation of my food.

;-)


25 posted on 03/30/2006 6:07:01 PM PST by festus (The constitution may be flawed but its a whole lot better than what we have now.)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
Such impacts (WITH or WITHOUT visible surface craters!) could go a long ways explaining the previous Ice Ages and subsequent warming periods.

It's especially curious that the leftist scum that propogate the "humans are the problem" approach know (KNOW!) that an asteroid (which many scientists believe hit the Gulf of Mexico/Yucatan Pen. area) was the cause of a "global event" that led to significantly lower global temperatures and the extinction of the dinosaurs.

It's a very real possiblity that a meteor or asteroid caused a notable amount of damage to the atmosphere. It's particular amusing that the "no nukes" crowd always cites damage to the earth's atmostphere (caused by testing and what not), but when presented the KNOWN event that is comparable to a mega nuclear bomb, they can't seem to fathom that it was that event, not my Jeep, that has triggered a warming trend.

And, that would be discounting some of the more recent studies that conclude that the Sun (the very star that warms this planet to begin with) is burning at it's hottest in the last 8,000 years.

Anyone with the most elementary understanding of physics can tell you if distance is constant and radiating heat increases, then core temperatures around that heat source will also rise.

As I have pointed out on several threads, you don't even need to "understand" any physics to discern this fact.

All you need is a slow burning fire, 4-5 logs and some lighter fluid. Stand 4 feet from the fire. Now throw the 4-5 logs on and pour on the fluid. Now, stand there.

What was the result? Well, outside of the very distinct possiblity of missing eyebrows, you will be hotter. There simply no way around that.

Now, back to Sun-Earth warming and apply the same. Sun burns hotter = Earth's core temperature will heat up. And, when the core temperature heats up, it is very likely to lead to other reactions (Newton and all).

And, if scientists are indeed alarmed, then maybe it is both of these theories and not my Jeep. Eh?

26 posted on 03/30/2006 6:07:23 PM PST by mattdono (The New 'Rat math: 0.0000017% = Vast Wiretapping of "Americans" Riiiggghhhhtttt...)
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To: festus

It is found in baby bottles. Yes, festus, tiny children baby bottles. Think of it!


27 posted on 03/30/2006 6:09:24 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (Romantics and pessimists are two sides of the same coin. Both will happily lead you over the cliff)
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To: festus

I wonder if any of it can still be found in the river that runs through our city. (you know, the one they attempt to dye green -excuse me- lighter green, every year)


28 posted on 03/30/2006 6:12:55 PM PST by uptoolate
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To: uptoolate

I really doubt there's any in that ditch. I've been by there and frankly I'd be surprised.

Now that I think about it though there might be some that hasn't yet evaporated from that little incident with the Dave Matthews Band's tour bus and that sight seeing cruise ;-)


29 posted on 03/30/2006 6:15:12 PM PST by festus (The constitution may be flawed but its a whole lot better than what we have now.)
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To: MarcusTulliusCicero
No more or less valid than the pro-global warming models,

No..no..no..no

Those guys really know what they are talking about...especially when they say things like, "the evidence is irrefutable...", "there can be no other conclusion!"

I'm not sure about everyone else but when I hear words like that, I just quit thinking.

No sense in questioning authority like that!

back to Jerry Springer and Oprah................

30 posted on 03/30/2006 6:17:40 PM PST by LasVegasMac (Islam........not fit for human consumption.)
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To: Gator101
I knew it: Dihydro Monoxide rears it's ugly head again!

It's nothing to laugh about. Did you know that everyone who is exposed to even a small amount of Dihydro Monoxide eventually dies?

31 posted on 03/30/2006 6:21:38 PM PST by kennedy ("Why would I listen to losers?")
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To: mrmargaritaville
Dow Chemical used to make napalm. Defoliants. Harmful insecticides. Poisons. Deadly chemicals.

Can you believe ANYTHING they claim about DHMO?
32 posted on 03/30/2006 6:24:08 PM PST by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: uptoolate
In this case, he's proposing that the global warming "ramp" IS only a few dozen years old - that the essentially "flat" PREVIOUS many hundred (thousand) years only began ramping up AFTER the Tunguska comet collision.

In other words he's explicitly NOT claiming any other reason for previous warming and cooling years, which clearly happened - see the Ice Ages, and the many significant climate changes BETWEEN the Ice Ages that obviously are NOT due to man's influence.

What has stymied (up to now !?!) people who do NOT blame the current global warming (about 1/5 of one degree is all that can be actually measured!) on man's (the US's) burning of fossil fuels is that no specific other cause can be found.

With the Tunguska comet impact, there IS an event that could cause 100 years of slowly warming climates.
33 posted on 03/30/2006 6:31:56 PM PST by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: festus

it is also responsible for the deaths in the mud slides in the philippines, and katrina.


34 posted on 03/30/2006 6:33:36 PM PST by haole (John 10 30)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

it is amazing that they blamed freon, a very heavy molecule, for destroying the ozone layer. even the worst hurricane, could not launch chlroflouro-etc up into the ozone belt.
also, the amount of crap thrown into the atmosphere by Mt pinaturbo several years ago, was well over anything man could have done in several hundred years.....


35 posted on 03/30/2006 6:36:03 PM PST by haole (John 10 30)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

it is amazing that they blamed freon, a very heavy molecule, for destroying the ozone layer. even the worst hurricane, could not launch chlroflouro-etc up into the ozone belt.
also, the amount of crap thrown into the atmosphere by Mt pinaturbo several years ago, was well over anything man could have done in several hundred years.....


36 posted on 03/30/2006 6:36:19 PM PST by haole (John 10 30)
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To: haole

Budt the vegies still claim it's all due to cow farts!


37 posted on 03/30/2006 6:43:59 PM PST by dalereed
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

How does one measure climate changes over thousands of years?


38 posted on 03/30/2006 6:47:27 PM PST by uptoolate
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

It blew down how many trees? About 20 kt worth? Hmmmm.


39 posted on 03/30/2006 6:52:51 PM PST by patton (Once you steal a firetruck, there's really not much else you can do except go for a joyride.)
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To: PatrickHenry

interesting. listworthy?


40 posted on 03/30/2006 7:50:33 PM PST by King Prout (many complain I am overly literal. this would not be a problem if so many were not under-precise)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

um.
I have read (on a JPL website) that Mars and at least one of the rocky moons of one of the gas giants has appeared to undergo similar warming contemporaneous to that on earth.
this suggests a single cause: sol


41 posted on 03/30/2006 7:53:13 PM PST by King Prout (many complain I am overly literal. this would not be a problem if so many were not under-precise)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

bfl


42 posted on 03/30/2006 8:24:27 PM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: Gator101
I knew it: Dihydro Monoxide rears it's ugly head again!

More info on Dihydrogen Monoxide here.

43 posted on 03/30/2006 8:30:37 PM PST by free_at_jsl.com
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To: haole
"The Tunguska Event, sometimes known as the Tungus Meteorite is thought to have resulted from an asteroid or comet entering the earth's atmosphere and exploding. The event released as much energy as fifteen one-megaton atomic bombs. As well as blasting an enormous amount of dust into the atmosphere, felling 60 million trees over an area of more than 2000 square kilometres."

This was an ausome event, of biblical proportions. It was the singnal of the beginning of the end times, Shortly after, ww1 started. Rejection of Christianity in europe started, and now much of the book of Daniel, which no-one could make sense of, now makes sense. It was sealed until end times as God ordered. Now the seals are popping open rapidly.

44 posted on 03/30/2006 11:57:23 PM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
" Look for a serious and concerted effort to smear Mr. Vladimir Shaidurov in the near future."

Why not? Those that follow the 200 year old "fossil fuel" theory, (and it has never been proven, or even updated in 200 years) have been trashing the "oil is a renewable resource, produced by high preasure and basement rock formations" Russian theory, (which is being proved more and more each year) as well. There is no ol shortage. But if oil were to be always 'running out" then much more money can be made. If oil was forever abundant, well, where would the price go?

See Abiotic Oil

And oil not soon tapped out

very promising Gas Resources Corporation

And very interesting on many levels Deep drilling springs surprises

There is plenty to learn before we start letting kooks run the world.

45 posted on 03/31/2006 12:17:42 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: King Prout
Interesting. listworthy?

Coulda been a contender. But already posted on March 14: Greenhouse theory smashed by biggest stone (most potent greenhouse gas is H2O).
And (also on March 14): Greenhouse theory smashed by biggest stone.

And (I posted this one on March 13) Greenhouse theory smashed by biggest stone [meteorite, not human emissions].

46 posted on 03/31/2006 3:40:32 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Yo momma's so fat she's got a Schwarzschild radius.)
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To: festus
Impossible. Tunguska was clearly Tesla trying to contact that polar expedition from his tower and it all went badly wrong.

Doesn't matter to this guy's argument. Whatever it was, it happened, and it had the potential to disrupt the upper atmosphere.

47 posted on 03/31/2006 6:28:22 AM PST by El Gato
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To: uptoolate
How does one measure climate changes over thousands of years?

Lots of ways. Measuring tree rings for one, although that one is better for decades or hundreds of years. Lots of other surrogates for average temperature. See Scotese for other examples.

48 posted on 03/31/2006 7:40:34 AM PST by El Gato
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To: patton
It blew down how many trees? About 20 kt worth? Hmmmm.

Nearly three orders of magnitude off. Estimates vary 5-15 MT being common. Shaiduro uses 15 MT as his estimate. (Link is to the paper under discussion)

49 posted on 03/31/2006 8:14:41 AM PST by El Gato
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To: El Gato

That is a big ping.


50 posted on 03/31/2006 8:21:28 AM PST by patton (Once you steal a firetruck, there's really not much else you can do except go for a joyride.)
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