Posted on 04/03/2006 7:39:33 AM PDT by Neville72
But is not the protests of the French yutes all based on money? They want to ensure that they get the money without having to strive to earn it. Or am I missing something.
And help me to understand how French culture is different to American culture in terms of deference to money? I see the pre-war sweetheart oil contracts with Saddam to be standard fare for the French who didn't seem to care much about thier involvement with the UN Oil for Fools program.
Is that what you mean by deference to money? If so I get it and would agree with you that there is quite a distinction between the cultures.
I understand that. But I'd always heard horror stories about "socialized medicine" and wasn't quite sure of the quality of health care that I would receive after I moved to France.
Incidentally, it's a combination of the government picking our pockets and us paying for it ourselves. The government pays a portion of most things and the rest is paid by the patient. Well, we pay the doctor and the government reimburses us via direct deposit into our bank account within several days of the doctor visit. We have supplemental insurance that reimburses us for almost everything (if not everything) that the government does not pay for, including vision and dental.
I still find their social policies a bit self-defeating, but time will tell how that goes - especially given the increasing trend of interdependent globalization.
Personally, I believe there is a flux between socialism and capitalism in which there is a constant striving toward an equilibrium point, much like the the supply and demand curves are in constant, mutually adjusting flux toward a constantly fluctuating equilibrium point.
I see socialism as tending to focus on the collective- often at the expense of the individual, with capitalism tending to focus on the individual - often at the expense of the collective.
In an era of increasing globalization, I also believe that neither nor both will be sufficient for the maintenance of a globalized society and that an entirely different approach is necessary.
I have spent the past several years on just this issue, but dare not discuss it on this or any public forum as it would inevitably be misunderstood, and consequently derided.
This is where you are wrong; we do not owe our fellow citizens a living, or even a dime.
The Grand Folly of France was starting down that road in 1789. That is what you get from mob rule.
Corporations are sock puppets compared to Government taking from the productive citizen to give handouts to the idle leach.
read later
Well, without sarcasm, let me say "thanks" for your military service. I offer that to anyone who has served regardless of political beliefs. As for shutting you up, or sending you back to France, I wouldn't dream of it. You make my case far better than I do. As for my right to work in France I believe that all of Europe has rather severe restrictions, and Jacques Chirac's response to English(Anglo-Saxon) being spoken at a meeting last week certainly has freedom of speech implications for a non-French speaker such as moi.
The "Kelo" Supreme Court's majority, those that voted against the individual, were all moderate-to-liberal politically. Note that two, Breyer and Ginsburg, are arch-liberals appointed by that great friend of the common man, Bill Clinton. Check the record. How do you explain the supposedly evil-capitalist-leaning Anton Scalia voting for the individual? Rumor has it that Sandra Day O'Connor, first woman appointed to the Court(by Ronald Reagan no less) might have been nominated by George Bush as the first female Chief Justice, had she not retired in disgust because of the Kelo vote.
How many MRI systems or CAT Scan systems do you have available for your use at your local hospital? Is there a waiting list? How many types of organ transplants are done at your local Hospital and what is the current waiting time? What about Oncology at your local hospital? Do they cure people or just make one comfortable while dying the natural socialist way?
I didn't really see the riots a couple of months ago as having much to do with Islam. We're talking about a group of young men who drink, do drugs, frequent prostitutes and listen to the same thuggish type of music as the American underclass. It's tough to find a link between them and Islam, other than that their parents or grandparents came from somewhere in North Africa.
Il n'y a pas d'honte être français. Il y a seulement l'honte dans rester de français.
(There is no shame in being French. There is only shame in staying French.)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)
And Lucent Technologies is going to allow itself to be taken over by these clowns?
"With cries of 'God is Great' bands of youths armed with whatever they
could get hold of went on a rampage and forced the police to flee"
This is from Independent Media Research, but it can be found all over the web. Now mind you, Christians usually are wont to say "God is Love", and Jews say "God is One". The bands of yutes in Paris didn't use these phrases. As far as drinking, taking drugs, frequenting prostitutes(in spite of being destitute. Does France have socialized prostitution?) and thuggish music are concerned, note that the 9/11 hijackers are on record as having gone to a strip club the night before qualifying for their 70+ virgins.
They were not led by a Frenchman.
Lucent has been run by liberals for years. Think about it-what greedy capitalist conservative would spend big bucks to ditch a name like Bell Labs, with it's world wide name recognition, for "Lucent" and it's accompanying zen-buddhist-like-circle emblem thingy?
No book comes to mind.
The whole corporate structure of France went over to the fascists.
We need to remember just why it was that France failed so quickly.
It was because France was divided almost perfectly down the middle between socialists/communists, on the one side, and corporatist/fascists on the other.
These two domestic factions hated each other intensely, and the government was socialist, but the military command was quasi-fascist.
The degree of hatred and distrust exceeded even the current level of partisan hatred in America.
The left wing of French government was spiritually akin to the Soviets. The right wing of French government was spiritually akin to the fascists in Italy and Spain, with a dose of anti-Semitism akin to (although not anywhere near extreme as) the German Nazis.
So, when the French military collapsed, practically for the want of desire of the French general command to fight, the Parliament voted in Petain as national leader, and the French fascists took command of the government. They were nationalist adversaries of the Germans, still, but ideologically they were very much in tune with the fascist corporatists.
Now, that was virtually the whole French right.
We should remember that from 1941 until 1944 or so, practically all of the active Resistance in France was Communist. The French right was fascist, and the Nazis were their ideological allies, although the French right were still French nationalists and resented German domination. So, what you had was all of the major French industries, the entirety of it, continuing to operate, stepping up to war production, for the Germans, with French corporate leadership squeezing the hell out of French labor. The French laborer was exploited by the French corporatists for their PROFIT, and for the benefit of the whole fascist cause everywhere. Renault cooperated enthusiastically with the German war effort. THAT'S the main moral reason why Renault was nationalized as soon as the free French government was restored.
This is also why the French are specifically suspicious of corporatism.
Remember, in France during the occupation, the only fighting heroes were Communists. The French right, the republicans and business class. Were, as a class (if not always as individuals) Vichy, and cooperative with the fascists. Now, this didn't mean that they were eager to kill Jews, and there was plenty of hiding Jews. But in social terms, the French right saw in the German conquest the opportunity to bring well in hand labor and the left, kill the Communists, and establish a corporatist state in France which would focus on iron-fisted production and rule for maximum profits. Vichy was not about race war, but it WAS about class war. It was the moment of full domination by the corporate far right, and they viewed French laborers as work units, essentially livestock, to be driven to the greatest extent possible. Communists and any sort of labor organization was, of course, subversive, and murderously attacked.
THAT'S why the French are distrustful of unregulated corporatism. Because that was Vichy France. And it's why the French view labor organization and control, and direct labor presence in corporate board rooms, etc., as an essential tool of democratic control of the country. The last time the French capital class was completely unregulated by French workers, it went over as a class to fascism with a vengeance.
iron-fisted production
full domination by the corporate far right
fascism with a vengeance
Funny how the communist totalitarians are held in great esteem while the fascist totalitarians are abomination.
Communists snicker at the pathetic body count that the fascists were able to roll-up. No beats the communists at murdering millions with very little complaints in the media.
Funny how that works.
"The whole corporate structure of France went over to the fascists."
And if they had refused? But never mind. Which side of schizophrenic pe-War France built the Maginot Line along the border with unfriendly Germany but not that of friendly Belgique? If the military was pro-Facist, why did they put the Wehrmacht through the trouble of going through Belgium? Just open up the gates and... Germany overwhelmed France because of superior weapony. And just to be fair, the "anglo-saxons" as you derisivly call them, were taking old muskets out of museums in desperation after Verdun, Britain having suffered from quai-socialism since Ramsey MacDonald. The socialists/communists weren't interested in armament developments or armies. Witness the job Uncle Joe Stalin did to the Red Army in 1937, murdering, among many, many others, the brilliant Marshall Tuckachevsky.
You started this argument with the notion that we "anglo-saxons" were angry at France for not following our model. Assuming we think our model is superior(and we know it is) why would we want to force it upon you and cause ourselves extra competition?
You can't be serious.
Are you aware that the first face transplant surgery ever performed in the world was recently done in France by French doctors? Do you honestly think that no one in France ever gets cured of anything, that everyone just dies the "natural socialist way"?
I realize this is not what you want to hear, but I've waited less time for all of the medical care I've required here (which, thankfully, has not been much) than I did in the U.S. My husband had minor outpatient surgery last year that was scheduled within 2-3 weeks. Our 6 local hospitals have all of the basic medical equipment, including MRI and CT scan machines. In fact, the university hospital just added some new type of heart scanner. And doctors here still make house calls.
We are looking at the differences right now. Time is up.
The French model yields massive unemployment, riots, a slerotic economy, religious and racial problems, and national demise....you keep waiting, OK, and maybe pick up an Arabic dictionary while you bide your time.
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