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Senator John McCain--I made him mad at last night's Town Hall!
EMail | 20 April 2005 | Sandy Miller - Phoenix

Posted on 04/20/2006 3:01:32 PM PDT by Spiff

I MAY HAVE ENGRAVED ON MY TOMBSTONE:
"SHE MADE JOHN McCAIN MAD!"

After attending Senator McCain's morning Town Hall yesterday, I was so disgusted at the way the local politicians censored citizen questions that I abandoned the idea of attending the evening session. The Tempe mayor laid down the ground rules: only questions and no "speeches" (which obviously included statements that disputed McCain's claims).

It was a royal sham from the word go, just like Bush press conferences. I'm sure it was packed with McCain toadies, because they started a standing ovation when he walked in and of course most people joined in (with a few exceptions like me).

Thanks to my friend Annette, who encouraged me to accompany her to the evening session, where the McCain held a real Town Hall rather than the stage production choreographed by Hizzoner the Tempe mayor.

But the Tempe experience revealed the one-liners and sound-bytes McCain used to promote his amnesty and discourage any disagreement. In promoting his bill (that he carefully avoided calling an "amnesty"), he said there were only 3 options (1) maintain the status quot, (2) allow them to stay or (3) a mass roundup, which he dismissed as impossible claiming the busses needed would stretch from San Diego to Alaska. Twice in the morning at the Tempe session and at least 3 times in the evening, he challenged the audience, "If you have another solution, give it to me and I promise to take it to the Senate for review." Of course that was just another of his ill-advised challenges used to condescendingly dismiss anyone who disagrees, secure in his arrogance that no one will dare to call his bluff. The recent "$50 per hour lettuce-picker jobs" are just another example.

In justifying the need for amnesty, he cited that the dictionary defined amnesty as "forgiveness" that required allowing them to remain in the US, dismissing any disagrement with the one-liner "Then you're reading a different dictionary than I am."

It was a real achievement to even get a turn at the mike, because the country club ballroom at Sun Lakes retirement community was jammed, at least 1500 people. Thanks again to Annette and two elderly ladies who kept poking the aide with their canes to remind him he promised me a turn at the mike.

Finally my turn came. I took a deep breath and jumped in, determined to keep going even if he tried to interrupt and talk over me:

"Senator, I'll begin by answering a question you've asked several times this evening, and then I have a question of my own." You've asked for an alternate plan for dealing with the 11 million illegal aliens in the US, and that plan has been documented by Mark Krikorian of Center for Immigration Studies in DC. It's called "Attrition through Enforcement," and it sets out a 'comprehensive' strategy well known to Congressman Tom Tancredo of Colorado and the House Immigration Reform Caucus. The plan has been summarized very succintly and clearly by Mike Cutler, retired from 27 years' service in Treasury, Customs and INS, who often says "Nobody breaks into the amusement park when the rides are closed."

"So Senator, you close down the rides--crack down on the employers as you promised to do 20 years ago when you voted for the "one time amnesty," end the publicly-funded benefits to illegal aliens and their families as we did with Prop 200, end the government grants to agencies who help illegal aliens like Catholic Charities and Arizona Interfaith, and end the "anchor baby" citizenship nonsense that enables illegal alien families to "piggy-back" on their US-born children. And Senator, that won't require a constitutional amendment as you claim--we need only to pass HR 698, intriduced earlier in the seesion by Congressman Charlie Norwood of GA. If you're not familiar with these provisions, I know that Congressman Tom would welcome the opportunity to outline the option with you. So that leaves you to show whether you're a man of your word and will take the option for Senate consideration as you've promised."

"Now for my question, Senator. The agencies that will be responsible for administering and enforcing your McCain-Kennedy Amnesty (and it IS an amnesty, Senator)..."

He then interrupted with a condescening one-liner that he used at the morning session, "..then you're reading a different dictionary than I am..." to which I replied, "Senator, I don't used dictionaries to read laws. I read this law in United States Code Title 8, Section 1324."

Although I wasn't watching McCain, my friend Annette told me he'd been pacing up to then, but when I didn't back down at his dismissive comments, his face began to get red and she commented that it was obvious he was mad. She also said that the room went dead quiet; perhaps the audience was eager to see how McCain would react. I'm amazed that he didn't continue talking over me, but perhaps like most bullies, they back down when they find someone who isn't intimidated by them.

But I knew that stooping would mean losing control of the mike, and continued on:

"And Senator, Section 1324 defines illegal presence in the US and prescribes only 1 penalty for illegal presence in the US--deportation."

"The two Dept of Homeland Security agencies charged with insuring compliance are CIS--Citizenship & Immigration Services and ICE--Immigration & Customs Enforcement. Their historical incompetence and non-performance of their job is well-documented by the GAO back to 1995, they were charged by Congress to eliminate the 3-million applicant backlog by the end of FY 2006, and their report last November plainly stated that new laws, such as a guest-worker plan, would seriously hinder accomplishing that objective. Corruption was added to bungling and incompetence when the CIS Security Chief resigned, blowing the whistle on bribes to CIS employees in the form of money, gifts and sexual favors."

"Senator, these are the same people who mailed automatic renewals of student visas to flight schools for students killed in the 9/11 Islamic terrorist attacks on New York and DC. Senator, how do you expect Americans to believe that your promises of enforcement will be fulfilled by such people?"

When I finished, I was dry and had to find a water fountain. I heard just enough of his reply to hear him say he was familiar with "my" plan and wasn't going to take it back to the Senate. He diverted the subject by telling how the Irish had difficulties when they first came to America but eventually assimilated. He never answered my question of how agencies that can't and won't enforce current laws can enforce new ones.

Several people slapped me on the back as I left the room looking for water, one had even attended the morning session in Tempe and said, "You said exactly what I wanted to but couldn't."

I returned to the room just as the meeting ended, and met Annette out in the lobby. But the best part was to come: a couple approached me and the man asked, "Do you work in immigraton because you know about the subject?" When he learned I'm a computer analyst, he asked where I learned what I know, I told him I grew up in Southern California--the best classroom there is.

I learned he was a former ICE chief for their Phoenix office, so it was a real compliment when a front-line profiessional says something like that.

On the drive home when Annette told me how mad McCain had become when I didn't back down from his condescending treatment, the effort in attending that night became worth it.

During the meeting, about 90% of the questions/comments were on immigration, maybe even more. Any supporters of McCain's amnesty bill were quiet that night, because everyone speaking on immigration opposed his amnesty. It's clear that despite the overwhelming voter opposition, it didn't change McCain's determination to shove this down our throats, just as he did in 1986.

Arizonans can't vote him out of the Senate for another 4 years, but he has other plans--the GOP presidential nomination in 2008. Americans in other states don't know the REAL John McCain like Arizonans do, but we have two years to educate them. I'm sure his stubborn insistence on this illegal alien amnesty will raise his visibility with Americans on an issue that he probably prefers would have remained "low-profile."

When McCain originally took his "pro-illegal alien amnesty" position several years ago, I'm sure they expected this amnesty to sail through Congress easily. I doubt he expected to have the issue become the hot and visible issue it is today.

Let's hope every pro-illegal alien senator experienced similar confrontations during their recess.


TOPICS: US: Arizona; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 109th; 2006; 2008; amnesty; bordersecurity; criminalinvaders; govwatch; illegalaliens; illegalimmigration; immigrantlist; mccain; mmp; reconquista; rino; rinowatch
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I am proud of you! :)


101 posted on 04/20/2006 8:49:57 PM PDT by ElPatriota (Let's not forget, we are all still friends despite our differences)
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To: Spiff

Thanks for asking the question and for the thread.


102 posted on 04/20/2006 9:07:46 PM PDT by rcocean (Copyright is theft and loved by Hollywood socialists)
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To: Ben Ficklin
The overiding reason for illegal immigration/rise in illegal immigration is the number of low skill-low pay jobs being created by the economy. That number is currently 483,000 such jobs each year.

Please cite the source for this figure. Why in your opinion are employer sanctions ineffectual (aside from your assertion that they "will never pass congress")?

What exactly is your position? What combination of methods do you favor for securing the border and reducing the population of illegals? Or is that even the goal as far as you're concerned?

103 posted on 04/20/2006 9:08:08 PM PDT by newsworthy (Culture is the engine of history.)
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To: Ben Ficklin

Blah, blah.

Per BF, nothing can be done. Its all hopeless. Hurrah for open borders. Lets merge with Mexico. Unlike every other country in the world, we can't control our borders. Its all so complicated, blah, blah.

As Reagan said - there are simple answers, just no easy ones. First, control the border and limit the influx of illegals. Two, enforce employers sanctions. Illegals came here of there own free will, and will leave on their own if there are no jobs.


104 posted on 04/20/2006 9:20:26 PM PDT by rcocean (Copyright is theft and loved by Hollywood socialists)
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To: bnelson44

I think there are only two choices left. One is to start performing citizens arrests and create a huge mess which the border patrol and immigration "mafia" will like like fools in the press....or second...you go state by state and get state administrations made responsible for stopping the problem (you fire them or vote them out if they can't do the job). Face it....you have four states that could make this happen (Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and California). If any of these state decide to build a wall...the pressure is on the other three to cooperate or else they will get more travlers via their neck of the woods when the wall is done. The cost here is huge...but if you made this a youth-construction project...just hire 2,000 18-year old kids and give them 300 adult construction guys as supervisors...you could build the wall in Arizona in less than 10 years...for a fairly cheap price.


105 posted on 04/20/2006 9:35:07 PM PDT by pepsionice
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To: Spiff; HiJinx
A courageous and well informed woman named Sandy Miller did it. I just posted her email using its original title. I'm going to direct her to this thread so that she can read the kudos that she deserves.

Spiff, I hope you will do that.

During the various election cycles, I have avoided criticizing McCain, because, whatever else his numerous shortcomings were, he stayed with his men when he was a POW.

That one gesture, in whatever my opinion is worth, covered a multitude of sins.

No more.

He just lost whatever goodwill I was willing to extend to him.

And I thank you for posting this. We all need to read it, and ponder.

106 posted on 04/20/2006 9:37:13 PM PDT by backhoe (-30-)
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To: pepsionice

We can do wonders in AZ if we had the support of our elected officials. Personally, I think this is a loosing issue for the Gov.


107 posted on 04/20/2006 9:37:17 PM PDT by bnelson44 (Proud parent of a tanker! (Charlie Mike, son))
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To: Spiff

excellent job, especially quoting the bill!


108 posted on 04/20/2006 9:43:18 PM PDT by votelife (we need 60 conservative senators)
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To: Borax Queen

Very cool ping!


109 posted on 04/20/2006 9:46:07 PM PDT by sweetliberty (Stupidity should make you sterile.)
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To: Spiff; HiJinx

Fantastic Job Spiff!!!
I hope you don't mind if I forward your post to a few of the folks up here in the Midwest...McCain was Kerry's first choice but definitely NOT mine!!!!!!
Thanks for the ping HiJinx!!!


110 posted on 04/20/2006 9:48:17 PM PDT by FlashBack (www.teamamericapac.org)
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To: Spiff

Great job and a wonderful story to be emailed to all my contacts. It's amazing that when you presented McCain with facts, he totally lost control of his stage command. Kudos to you, Spiff.


111 posted on 04/20/2006 9:56:36 PM PDT by peggybac (Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing)
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To: Ben Ficklin
Attrition Through Enforcement A Cost-Effective Strategy to Shrink the Illegal Population

"This analysis demonstrates that it is not only possible, but would be quite practical to undertake a strategy of attrition through enforcement in order to shrink the size of the illegal alien population and relieve the burden illegal immigration imposes on American communities. This strategy, when combined with conventional immigration law enforcement and tighter security at the borders, could reduce the number of illegal aliens by half over a period of five years. Contrary to some reports, and according to the government’s own cost estimates, this strategy is a bargain, costing less than $2 billion over five years. It is less expensive and less radical than either a massive amnesty/guestworker program, or a massive apprehension and removal operation.

The strategy of attrition through enforcement relies on tried and true immigration law enforcement techniques that discourage illegal settlement and increase the probability that illegal aliens will return of their own accord. Lawmakers must not be intimidated by the sheer size of the illegal population. Both academic research and recent experience demonstrate that migrants respond to incentives and deterrents, and that a subtle increase in the "heat" on illegal aliens can be enough to dramatically reduce the scale of the problem within just a few years. The federal government already has within its grasp the ability and the tools to control the level of illegal immigration, and its success in doing so is a direct result of the effort it has made. A modest investment of resources to step up this effort will pay large dividends for the future.

112 posted on 04/20/2006 10:06:40 PM PDT by kabar
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To: Spiff

McCain would make the perfect President................for Mexico. But then, they already have a Fox in charge of their Casa de los galina.


113 posted on 04/20/2006 10:07:46 PM PDT by F.J. Mitchell (The tree never falls far from the apple.)
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To: Ben Ficklin
Illegal Immigration and the Colonization of the American Labor Market
114 posted on 04/20/2006 10:12:13 PM PDT by kabar
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To: F.J. Mitchell

gallina.


115 posted on 04/20/2006 10:12:51 PM PDT by F.J. Mitchell (The tree never falls far from the apple.)
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To: Spiff
Great job! Thanks for speaking out for the overwhelming majority.
116 posted on 04/20/2006 10:23:08 PM PDT by Sprite518
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To: kabar
Yes.....me again...

In my view, some aspects of the " attrition idea should be worked into a comprehensive policy to revamp our business regulations and thereby sour the milk, so to speak. But, the idea that you can attrit them all, to include those who have been here for as much as twenty years or more or have extensive family roots is not at all workable.

The primary concern, even if you have successfully removed most all work opportunities is that you will create a permanent underclass of essentially invisible people without identities nor visible or legal means of support.

I'm afraid the simple statement that they will return to Mexico is not valid because Mexico is not their home either and may well become the greater of the two evils when family support or at least several million people are willingly giving shelter and sustenance. The other option is crime. The law would then become totally unworkable and would be repealed under great amounts of political pressure.

So, really, the idea has some merit insofar as employer controls, but we can do that with a comprehensive worker visa or jobs program that follows these people closely and only admits those with a job and deports those who lose their employment and or cannot be reemployed for reasons of a criminal record or other violation.

I agree with the poster who called this a fall back position. I would also put the more recent increased emphasis and interest in border security as it relates to terror in that category as well. The facts say the Northern border would then be the place to build a wall.

Complicated problems require a complicated solution as a general rule, and this is indeed a complicated problem.

We need to get something started to curb the flow now, and even if it is not perfect and it never will be, we need to get started, or this issue will fester for another 20 years with nothing but mistakes masquerading as policy.

117 posted on 04/20/2006 10:49:28 PM PDT by Cold Heat
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To: Cold Heat

All the above does not in any way infer that McCain has moved out of the category of a political idiot. He still has his foot firmly implanted in his Butt.


118 posted on 04/20/2006 10:51:38 PM PDT by Cold Heat
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To: HiJinx

Ah someone else got this, we were plenty po'd on the thread too!


119 posted on 04/20/2006 11:11:35 PM PDT by JustPiper (In our time, no foreign army has ever occupied American soil. Until now.)
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To: Spiff

Lemme tellya Spiff this is the second report I've gotten firsthand since Monday!

Had a compatriot go to one here, stupid townhall thingee's Stay Away! Bad!

This guy was so traumatized by what Obama's group at an upscale suburban HS put him thru I think he's through being an activist!


120 posted on 04/20/2006 11:13:24 PM PDT by JustPiper (In our time, no foreign army has ever occupied American soil. Until now.)
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