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Conspiracy Film Rewrites Sept. 11 (Lunatic Alert!)
Yahooooooo! ^ | April 28, 2006 | William Welch

Posted on 04/28/2006 7:21:24 AM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin

Gypsy Taub, a mother of three from Oakland, does not believe that 9/11 happened. At least not the way the government said it did.

A Russian émigré, Taub is one of a growing number of people in the USA who are using the Internet, college campuses and pamphleteering to get the word out.

"Oh yeah, absolutely. On the day it happened, I thought it was the government that did it," she said.

Taub is promoting one of the latest presentations of revisionist theories on the 2001 attacks by al-Qaeda terrorists, a film that says, among other things, that the Pentagon was hit by a cruise missile fired by the military as an excuse to go to war.

Called Loose Change, it is being downloaded from the Internet and shown in small screenings here and overseas. It is not alone in the genre, and it is not unusual in American history either to offer simplistic explanations or demonize opponents. Presidents from Andrew Jackson to Lyndon Johnson were accused by their contemporaries of massive government conspiracies.

The film appears especially popular among young people immersed in a Web culture brimming with sites that question the credibility of government. They see 9/11 as the defining moment of their lives.

"This is our generation's Vietnam, our generation's Kennedy assassination," says Korey Rowe, 23, the film's producer.

Professors and researchers of film and politics say the Internet is making it far easier to spread such theories because the traditional media are losing their hold on the news. The immense coverage of controversies and accusations surrounding the war on terror has created fertile ground for people who assign their own interpretations to photos, footage, eyewitnesses, investigations and newspaper accounts of what happened, they say.

"The information revolution now gives us access to too much information," says Jonathan Taplin, who teaches at the Annenberg School for Communications at the University of Southern California. "Our problems are that we're just overwhelmed, so in some sense we just basically don't even know where to turn."

'It's all over the place'

Craig Smith, director of the Center for First Amendment Studies at California State University, Long Beach, cites the unusual nature of 9/11: four airliners simultaneously hijacked and no defenses stop them.

"You would say, come on, I can't even buy that as a movie script," Smith says. "All of this feeds this readiness for paranoia."

Made by Rowe and friend Dylan Avery, 22, from Oneonta, N.Y., on a laptop computer for less than $10,000, the film contrasts sharply with United 93, a film opening Friday that portrays the struggle for the jetliner that crashed in Shanksville, Pa.

Internet chat rooms are full of promos for screenings of Loose Change in such locales as the Santa Cruz Veterans Memorial Building in California; the Université de Sherbrooke, Quebec; Graz, Austria; and a theater in London's Soho district.

"It's been breaking like nobody's business the last two months," says Taub, 36, who is sponsoring a showing Tuesday night in Oakland. "It's all over the place."

'They aren't truth-tellers'

Most of what the film alleges is refuted by the evidence at hand. Anything not answered definitively by the government is interpreted by the film as proof of a coverup.

Among the assertions in Loose Change is that a missile hit the Pentagon even though eyewitnesses saw the jet, numerous pieces of wreckage were found including the flight recorder, and those on the flight and in its path at the Pentagon are dead.

There is also the claim that because jet fuel burns at up to 1,500 degrees and steel melts at 2,750 degrees, the World Trade Center's infrastructure could not have been brought down by the airliners. However, as reported by the Journal of the Minerals, Metals and Materials Society, steel loses 50% of its strength at 1,200 degrees, enough for a failure.

"The only thing they (the filmmakers) seem to have gotten right about the Sept. 11 attacks is the date when they occurred," says Debra Burlingame, whose brother was the pilot of American Flight 77 that crashed into the Pentagon.

"They aren't truth-tellers looking to save the world," she says. "They're con artists hoping to sucker conspiracy-theory paranoids or anti-government malcontents into shelling out their hard-earned dollars."

Some college students who saw Loose Change and are promoting it say it's good to raise questions.

The film offers "at the very least suggests that we don't know the whole truth, and that some things are quite fishy," says Matt Latham, a freshman at the University of California, Santa Cruz.

'Students love it'

Christian Pecaut, 25, a Stanford graduate who is promoting the film at the University of California, Berkeley campus, said the film is "catchy, hip," with an "upbeat soundtrack."

Aaron Williams, a senior at Texas A&M University and president of the philosophy club, believes the film. "Government is corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely," he says.

Penelope Price, a documentary filmmaker and professor at Scottsdale Community College, said she brought the filmmakers to the campus to stimulate critical thinking.

"Students love it," she said. "These guys have done a great job of marketing on the Web, and that was another reason I wanted to bring them in."

Conservative writer David Horowitz, a former 1960s radical, says conspiratorial thinking can offer a world view that is somehow less scary than reality. "Conspiracy theories are a kind of secular religion," he says, adding that campus faculties sometimes encourage anti-government feelings. "People feel great anxiety ... by the thought that nobody's in control."

People believe in conspiracy theories because the truth "is either too simple or too remote," says sociologist Clifton Bryant of Virginia Tech University, who has made a study of "deviant logic" and behavior.

"We're always ready to believe something about which we know nothing," he says.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 911; 911conspiracy; americahaters; bushhaters; campuscommies; campusradicals; conspiracytheories; hollyweird; kooktokookam; loonyleft; marxists; propaganda; radicalleftists; sept11
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To: MosesKnows
Are you serious? They think this?

I blame TV. People give the government waaaay too much credit.

I think that it's absolutely hilarious that the same people who give serious creedence to the 'fact' that Pres. Bush is funcionally illiterate, also think that he could mastermind, and coverup, a plot like this to kick off World War III with the AlQueda terrorists.

But, I expect that if you called them out on this particular dichotomy, their heads would explode.

51 posted on 04/28/2006 8:34:28 AM PDT by wbill
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

I know a couple left-wingers that believe this crap. It shouldn't come as much of a surprise, considering that they also blame Republicans for Katrina and AIDS.


52 posted on 04/28/2006 8:35:52 AM PDT by Junior_G
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To: wbill
But, I expect that if you called them out on this particular dichotomy, their heads would explode.

Perhaps, but I think I may have to call them on it, or at least make them choose: Which is it? Is George Bush a blithering idiot, or is he the greatest criminal mastermind in the history of the world? They'll probably argue that he's both.

53 posted on 04/28/2006 8:38:34 AM PDT by Junior_G
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To: ariamne
Why does the truth, that we were attacked on 9/11 by islamic wackos, scare them so?

Probably because they do not believe that the truth has been told.

54 posted on 04/28/2006 8:42:40 AM PDT by eskimo (Political groupies - rabid defenders of the indefensible.)
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To: Junior_G
Which is it? Is George Bush a blithering idiot, or is he the greatest criminal mastermind in the history of the world?

I bet they would say that criminal masterminds own and operate a lot of blithering idiots.

55 posted on 04/28/2006 8:46:33 AM PDT by eskimo (Political groupies - rabid defenders of the indefensible.)
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To: DoughtyOne

It's been claimed that this crash would have been recorded on any number of video cameras in the area that day and some of which were pointed at the Pentagon...

The story goes that the FBI immediately after the crash went to the different locations (businesses, office buildings) and confiscated the videos...


56 posted on 04/28/2006 8:58:57 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the whole trailer park...)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin
Christian Pecaut, 25, a Stanford graduate who is promoting the film at the University of California, Berkeley campus, said the film is "catchy, hip," with an "upbeat soundtrack."

An upbeat soundtrack? Then it must be true.

57 posted on 04/28/2006 9:02:14 AM PDT by Logophile
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

A Penn Gilette video completely debunking these kooks:

http://luckydawgnews.com/911conspiracybs.html

WARNING!!!! EXTREME PROFANITY!!!


58 posted on 04/28/2006 9:04:08 AM PDT by Incorrigible (If I lead, follow me; If I pause, push me; If I retreat, kill me.)
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To: Iscool

This is true. There is very little picture evidence available on the internet--I've looked and even when I have found FR threads about the Pentagon the pictures are gone. You can find the video that was released by either ABC or NBC but the complaint is generally made that it does not show the plane--just some kind of streak and then the explosion. I came to an answer for that one day while I was driving and just letting random thoughts pass through my mind. I was thinking about my grandson and some pictures I had taken of him with my digital camera. I was thinking about being frustrated by the lag time on the shutter so that often by the time it clicks he has moved and there is no one in my picture. He's four and moves pretty fast at times but certainly nothing like an airplane traveling at hundreds of miles per hour. Since the camera that took the pictures of the plane also has a lag it is no wonder the plane cannot be seen.

As I was getting nearer to my home which is on a flight path to our downtown airport, a smaller commercial flight was in the sky parallel to the street I was driving on. It was landing and not very high up. It was also not going very fast so I could get a good look at it though I wouldn't have a clue as to what specific kind of plane it was. Since I was already thinking about Ft. 77, I tried to imagine my plane being a huge plane traveling at full speed that close to the ground and then trying to remember the details of what the plane actually looked like. I think it would have been a blur in my memory. The only time we ever see planes traveling that fast and that low is at air shows and those are air force jets. How much do you remember about the physical characteristics of those planes after they have passed? It's no wonder that several eye witnesses used the SIMILE "like a missile" when they were trying to describe what they saw.


59 posted on 04/28/2006 9:27:31 AM PDT by Albertafriend
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To: Iscool

Well as we have seen, the provision of videos over the major networks didn't convince anyone that the buildings weren't brought down by detonation, so I guess it wouldn't matter to these folks. I do have questions about other events, but this one is fairly cut and dried as far as I am concerned.

It's also evident that Flight 93 had hijackers of Middle-Eastern extraction. What's left to conjecture for these folks?

Charlie, wake the hell up!


60 posted on 04/28/2006 9:35:46 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (The United 'Door Mats' of America! Go ahead, scrape your feet on it. Everyone else is.)
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To: Albertafriend

I agree...It would be hard to imagine a large jet travelling even at a minimum speed of about 150 mph cutting across your path at a hundred yards out...

At two fifty, it would be a blur...And if it was still at cruising speed, I can't imagine a plane at that speed right in front of me...

But like the eyewitness accounts, I're read of the 'eyewitness' accounts of some of the folks that had the videos confiscated...I believe one was from a gas station...I'd like to see one of those videos...


61 posted on 04/28/2006 9:41:08 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the whole trailer park...)
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To: DoughtyOne
It's also evident that Flight 93 had hijackers of Middle-Eastern extraction

I'm convinced of that as well...I think it's plausable that flight 93 was actually shot down, and as bad as that may sound, it takes nothing away from the 'heros' on flight 93 nor is it meant to be a negative retort towards our gov't...

62 posted on 04/28/2006 9:46:51 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the whole trailer park...)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

Later fer laffs


63 posted on 04/28/2006 9:48:06 AM PDT by don-o
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To: Iscool

It's possible. I don't think it was but I have no way of knowing.

I agree that it doesn't take anything away from the passengers who did their best to regain control.


64 posted on 04/28/2006 9:58:29 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (The United 'Door Mats' of America! Go ahead, scrape your feet on it. Everyone else is.)
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To: All
"On the day it happened, I thought it was the government that did it," she said.

In other words, you were a nutcase from the very first moment, and then went looking for anything that would validate your psychosis.

65 posted on 04/28/2006 10:02:25 AM PDT by Dont Mention the War (This tagline is false.)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin
"They aren't truth-tellers looking to save the world," she says. "They're con artists hoping to sucker conspiracy-theory paranoids or anti-government malcontents into shelling out their hard-earned dollars."

one correction is required:

"They aren't truth-tellers looking to save the world," she says. "They're con artists hoping to sucker conspiracy-theory paranoids or anti-government malcontents into shelling out their PARENTS' hard-earned dollars."

there... that's much better

66 posted on 04/28/2006 10:05:32 AM PDT by King Prout (The UN 1967 Outer Space Treaty is bad for America and bad for humanity - DUMP IT.)
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To: VegasCowboy
Opie and Anthony had this Korey character (the guy who produced this kookfest) on a couple of weeks ago, and they absolutely tore him a new one.

I was listening to that. It was hilarious how Boy Korey's response to every single tough question was "That's absolutely impossible!"

67 posted on 04/28/2006 10:05:52 AM PDT by Dont Mention the War (This tagline is false.)
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To: DoughtyOne
It's also evident that Flight 93 had hijackers of Middle-Eastern extraction.

How is that evident? Not a single frame of airport security footage was ever released.

68 posted on 04/28/2006 10:19:00 AM PDT by eskimo (Political groupies - rabid defenders of the indefensible.)
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To: Junior_G
Which is it? Is George Bush a blithering idiot, or is he the greatest criminal mastermind in the history of the world? They'll probably argue that he's both.

Here is how it works

George Bush is a blithering idiot.

Karl Rove is the criminal mastermind who comes up with these fantastic conspiracies.

Dick Cheney finances the conspiracies so that Haliburton can subsequently benefit from the goverment expenditures resulting from its response to the conspiracy.

It all fits into a neat and tidy package.

69 posted on 04/28/2006 10:19:28 AM PDT by CharacterCounts
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To: CharacterCounts

You might be on to something...


70 posted on 04/28/2006 10:21:53 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the whole trailer park...)
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To: jujigatami
They'd claim it was all a plot to allow us to occupy Germany and put military bases there.

I got the perfect anti-war slogan for just such a scenario - "No Blood for Bratwurst!!"

71 posted on 04/28/2006 10:25:10 AM PDT by mikemach5
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To: Diana in Wisconsin
four airliners simultaneously hijacked and no defenses stop them.

Many people on the left and right have no understanding of the leviathan nature of our government and how that affects its response to crises.

It is completely believable to me that our government was unprepared to protect us from suicide hijackers.

But silly me...I thought it would finally prompt some changes in the way things are done. Instead, the government simply circled the wagons even tighter.

72 posted on 04/28/2006 10:30:28 AM PDT by GSWarrior (The road to good intention is paved with Hells.)
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To: silverleaf

Dear Guide:

Got this URL forwarded to me from a friend. It's a series of pictures that "shows" that a truck full of explosives, rather than a plane, caused damage to the Pentagon on Sept. 11. I'm sending it on to you for examination:

http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

Dear Reader:

"Hunt the Boeing!" is a provocative display of smoke and mirrors, but there's little else to recommend the site. Its authors present a fraction of the available evidence in a highly selective, distorted, titillating way, proving absolutely nothing — except, perhaps, that there's always room for another conspiracy theory.

______________________

Do you know of any site that debunks all the whacko conspiracy theories about United Flight 93?


73 posted on 04/28/2006 10:36:56 AM PDT by amutr22 (Remember....Friend's Don't Let Friends Vote Democrat!)
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To: coconutt2000
Me and three friends should simultaneously sucker punch the guy who said this and see how quickly he defends himself before we hit him.

Yeah, then tell him you didn't hit him.

74 posted on 04/28/2006 10:38:56 AM PDT by Lurking in Kansas (Nothing witty here… move on.)
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To: Junior_G

"It shouldn't come as much of a surprise, considering that they also blame Republicans for Katrina and AIDS."

Ah, yes. I remember those days when we Republicans all took our scarey GUNS and forced men have sex with one another.

Then we moved on to LA where we used our same scarey guns and forced people to live in a swamp at sea level. *Rolleyes*

Take heart. I have lunatics like this in my family, too. Best to just ignore them. ;)


75 posted on 04/28/2006 11:06:44 AM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: amutr22
Try this link.

Sometimes it takes a while to load.

76 posted on 04/28/2006 11:20:03 AM PDT by GSWarrior (The road to good intention is paved with Hells.)
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To: Dont Mention the War; VegasCowboy

Is this interview streamed on the internet?


77 posted on 04/28/2006 11:21:01 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

Charlie Sheen will likely be there Hollywood spokesman; if and when he can break himself free of surfing Internet porn sites.


78 posted on 04/28/2006 11:25:50 AM PDT by Shqipo (2006 is Bush Country!)
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To: ariamne
Why does the truth, that we were attacked on 9/11 by islamic wackos, scare them so?

Because it means we are engaged in a death struggle for the domination of the planet, which will be long and bloody, and will require a great deal of sacrifice. This is unpleasant to most people.

Of course, just because something is unpleasant does not mean it must be denied.

79 posted on 04/28/2006 11:27:56 AM PDT by bondjamesbond (RICE 2008)
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To: eskimo

I had thought that this was revealed during the phone conversations.


80 posted on 04/28/2006 11:28:10 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (The United 'Door Mats' of America! Go ahead, scrape your feet on it. Everyone else is.)
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To: DoughtyOne
I had thought that this was revealed during the phone conversations.

Sorry, I have not been paying close attention to most of this stuff. Just been listening to what the other old fellows I know have to say about it. What conversations would that be and where could one hear them, assuming they were recorded.

81 posted on 04/28/2006 11:35:53 AM PDT by eskimo (Political groupies - rabid defenders of the indefensible.)
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To: longtermmemmory

It might be. They may have it archived at opieandanthony.com. BTW, that site is not work-friendly.


82 posted on 04/28/2006 11:39:30 AM PDT by VegasCowboy ("...he wore his gun outside his pants, for all the honest world to feel.")
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To: eskimo

I am refering to the cell phone calls from Flight 93. I doubt there are recordings or transcripts. I thought that I had read that the terrorists were described by passengers as Middle-Eastern in appearance.


83 posted on 04/28/2006 11:42:07 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (The United 'Door Mats' of America! Go ahead, scrape your feet on it. Everyone else is.)
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To: Paradox

Agreed on that. I almost fear to send my family links debunking their myths. They generally react in a typical liberal manner.


84 posted on 04/28/2006 11:49:38 AM PDT by Kaylee Frye
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

When an event happens that completely undermines the legitimacy of one's political philosophy, the veracity of the event must be challenged...is that it? ;)


85 posted on 04/28/2006 11:51:34 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("When the government is invasive, the people are wanting." -- Tao Te Ching)
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To: DoughtyOne
I am refering to the cell phone calls from Flight 93.

Is that possible? I went to the city once to meet an old friend who was flying in and I told him to call about half an hour before he landed and I would pick him up. He said he could not do that because his new fangled cell phone did not work until the plane was close to the ground.

I doubt there are recordings or transcripts.

You can't really blame some folks for wondering. There's just no evidence. No airport footage, not one identified body, nothing.

86 posted on 04/28/2006 12:08:22 PM PDT by eskimo (Political groupies - rabid defenders of the indefensible.)
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To: eskimo

Are you saying that the cell phone calls on the Flight 93 transcribed cockpit recording could have been faked? Sorry, I do blame folks for wondering. The plane was real, the hijackers real, the crash was real. When you crash an airplane, inverted, into the ground at upwards of 500 mph, there just ain't a whole lot left to identify. And yet human remains were identified. There were many witnesses in Shanksville area that saw the plane go down. Next you will be telling me that 12 American astronauts never landed on the moon...


87 posted on 04/28/2006 12:25:19 PM PDT by ariamne (Proud shieldmaiden of the infidel--never forget, never forgive 9/11)
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To: eskimo
How is that evident? Not a single frame of airport security footage was ever released.

Several of the passengers who called their loved ones, on both cell phones (yes, they can be used in flight--this is discouraged only because it can interfere with ground to air and air to ground communication) and Airphones on the backs of the seats, described these hijackers as middle eastern looking (one said "Iranian looking"). They also described the killing of a first-class passenger, probably Mickey Rothenberg. This is the undeniable truth, unless you consider the passengers to be part of the "plot".

88 posted on 04/28/2006 12:30:45 PM PDT by ariamne (Proud shieldmaiden of the infidel--never forget, never forgive 9/11)
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To: eskimo

Then they are idiots who wouldn't know the truth if it came up and kicked them in the a##.


89 posted on 04/28/2006 12:33:09 PM PDT by ariamne (Proud shieldmaiden of the infidel--never forget, never forgive 9/11)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin
A bunch of wacko teachers at my school are taking this seriously.
90 posted on 04/28/2006 12:34:48 PM PDT by Scarchin (www.classdismissedblog.com.)
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To: ariamne
Are you saying that the cell phone calls on the Flight 93 transcribed cockpit recording could have been faked?

Hell, I have no idea. Don't get crazy on me. I'm just relating to you what some folks who have paid attention to this stuff were saying.

I just asked a simple question. There seems to be more questions than answers. You said above that there were cell phone calls on the transcribed cockpit recording, how is that possible?

91 posted on 04/28/2006 12:42:05 PM PDT by eskimo (Political groupies - rabid defenders of the indefensible.)
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To: eskimo

Rememmber the term "let's role"? It came from a cell phone call on Flight 93.

Do some searches on the forum and I think you'll find mention of it.


92 posted on 04/28/2006 12:50:49 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (The United 'Door Mats' of America! Go ahead, scrape your feet on it. Everyone else is.)
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To: ariamne
Then they are idiots who wouldn't know the truth if it came up and kicked them in the a##.

Well, these are very old friends and I think, to them, the "idiots" are those who do not want to know the truth and will not even seek it by asking any questions.

93 posted on 04/28/2006 12:57:09 PM PDT by eskimo (Political groupies - rabid defenders of the indefensible.)
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To: DoughtyOne
Do some searches on the forum and I think you'll find mention of it.

Thanks, I'll get one of those guys at the home to do that, they've got nothing better to do and they are good at it.

94 posted on 04/28/2006 1:08:17 PM PDT by eskimo (Political groupies - rabid defenders of the indefensible.)
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To: eskimo

Good deal. Later...


95 posted on 04/28/2006 1:10:13 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (The United 'Door Mats' of America! Go ahead, scrape your feet on it. Everyone else is.)
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To: eskimo
There's just no evidence. No airport footage, not one identified body, nothing

Well they did recover the black box.... 25 feet down in the 40 ft deep pit that resulted from the crash. They also recovered human remains but they were fragmentary. Probably at least some were identified through DNA.
96 posted on 04/28/2006 6:30:01 PM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: fhlh
Who hires these DOLTS????

 

Hollywood and the federal government.

97 posted on 05/01/2006 4:40:52 AM PDT by Fintan (Somebody has to post stupid & inane comments. May as well be me...)
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To: DoughtyOne; silverleaf
Good deal. Later...

One of those other guys at the home told me to look at this original news footage. Is this real?

98 posted on 05/02/2006 12:56:12 AM PDT by eskimo (Political groupies - rabid defenders of the indefensible.)
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To: eskimo
Unfortunately it looks real. I was at the crash site two weeks ago and talked to the guide there (a local woman) at the temporary memorial museum. And looked at all the scrap books filled with news photos.

First responders found an intense fire and a small crater, which was incredibly small but very deep...over 40 feet deep. They found the flight recorder/black box 25 feet into the ground. The FBI and other agencies spent weeks, often on their knees, scouring the meadows, hills and tree tops picking up shreds of flesh and debris.

The most incredible thing I learned was that the first responders found the two largest pieces of wreckage at the site were a burning aircraft tire...and a Bible.

The Bible, located 25-50 feet from the burning crater... had a scorched cover but the pages were open and intact and readable. It was later determined that this Bible belonged to a young man on Flight 93 who was a Buddhist.
99 posted on 05/02/2006 5:20:08 AM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: silverleaf
First responders found an intense fire and a small crater, which was incredibly small but very deep...over 40 feet deep.

I don't know what to say. Those old fellows just laugh their arses off at the prospect of anyone swallowing this stuff.

100 posted on 05/02/2006 7:45:47 AM PDT by eskimo (Political groupies - rabid defenders of the indefensible.)
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