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George Allen: Rebel flag was teen 'attitude.' Magazine reports on rebel symbols he had in school
Richmond Times-Dispatch ^ | 4/30/6 | Peter Hardin and Tyler Whitley

Posted on 04/30/2006 7:41:33 PM PDT by Crackingham

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To: Corin Stormhands

But, he was for the 'Assault Weapons Ban" before he was against it.

Is that statement inaccurate?


181 posted on 05/02/2006 1:59:46 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (George Allen's conservatism is as ephemeral as his virtual fence.)
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To: Heyworth
Did Miles actually design it? My understanding is that he was the head of a flag committee that was hip deep in designs submitted by the southern public.

Quite a few designs were submitted by various people. On 9 Feb 1861 William Porcher Miles was appointed head of the 'Committee on the Flag and Seal' by the provisional Congress. On 27 Aug 1861 Miles re-submitted his twice rejected proposal (originally submitted in February). Col. James P. Wilson of Louisiana submitted an almost identical design different only in that he advocated a Latin cross (St. George's) instead of Miles' St. Andrew's cross. Beauregard preferred the Miles' design. The committee then selected Miles' proposal as the official design.

182 posted on 05/02/2006 2:45:40 PM PDT by 4CJ (Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito, qua tua te fortuna sinet.)
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To: EternalVigilance

I'm sure it's completely accurate on your planet.


183 posted on 05/02/2006 4:52:40 PM PDT by Corin Stormhands (HHD: Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/)
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To: Corin Stormhands

Typical nonresponse.


184 posted on 05/02/2006 5:10:07 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (George Allen's conservatism is as ephemeral as his virtual fence.)
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To: archy
the Klan not only took positions of local political leadership, but also served to organize veterans of the previous war to help arrange mutual support for their fellows, and which included black Confederate veterans such as Forrest's wartime drovers and teamsters.

You know why I haven't responded to this, the very idea is so patently absurd in it's premise that it isn't worth my time to debate it.

However if you wish to prove that Blacks were members of The Klu Klux Klan, knock yourself out.

185 posted on 05/02/2006 5:56:24 PM PDT by usmcobra (Those that are incited to violence by the sight of OUR flag are the enemies of this nation.)
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To: stainlessbanner

Well one more politician to write off. Probably wouldn't have voted for the Republican Presidential candidate anyway, but if he got the nod, I definitely would not. You dishonor my heritage and the brave men,including many of my ancestors, who fought against tyranny you lose my respect and my vote


186 posted on 05/02/2006 6:00:19 PM PDT by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: 4CJ
If you take one flag and reverse the colors to create another flag, are you not corrupting the intent of the original design for your own purposes?

That is only common sense, as for the devil's work, do you consider treachery, slavery, treason, terror, and murder, Christan deeds or the devil's works on earth?
187 posted on 05/02/2006 6:04:52 PM PDT by usmcobra (Those that are incited to violence by the sight of OUR flag are the enemies of this nation.)
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To: usmcobra
That is only common sense, as for the devil's work, do you consider treachery, slavery, treason, terror, and murder, Christan deeds or the devil's works on earth?

The devil's, and the UNION had them all!

If you take one flag and reverse the colors to create another flag, are you not corrupting the intent of the original design for your own purposes?

The 1st US flag (the Continental Colors) was almost an exact copy of the British Red Ensign, with the British red background changed to red/white striped. Did the founders corrupt the intent, were they evil?

W. P. Miles did not take an existing flag and reverse the colors. He certainly did not take the Scottish flag and pervert it - he was a amatuer vexillologist who chose a 'saltire' for it's religious connotation with CHRISTIANITY and a heraldic symbol of STRENGTH, and it's blue color symbolized TRUTH. Miles chose to place the blue saltire on a red background to symbolize COURAGE and the blood that was shed, the white border of the saltire to represent PURITY, the white stars for the sovereignty of God and the states.

Again, Miles said of it, '[t]he flag should be a token of humble acknowledgement of God and be a public testimony to the world that our trust is in the Lord our God.'

188 posted on 05/03/2006 6:29:09 AM PDT by 4CJ (Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito, qua tua te fortuna sinet.)
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To: usmcobra; archy
what a SILLY, evasive & (possibly INTENTIONALLY deceitful) response!

"archy" did NOT say that the immediate post-war klan had Black MEMBERS, but rather that they ASSISTED their former comrades-in-arms, including those CSA veterans who WERE Black! (BIG DIIFERENCE in those 2 concepts!)

are you REALLY that clueLESS & DIMwitted OR do you hope your readers are so intellectually naive, bovine & dense as to believe your drivel & nonsense?????

free dixie,sw

189 posted on 05/03/2006 7:49:51 AM PDT by stand watie ( Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. -----T.Jefferson)
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To: stand watie

I'm sure the Klan assisted Blacks confederates pick bananas off of oak trees with a rope and a gun, right?

Only there were a terrible series of horrible "accidents" in the process.


190 posted on 05/03/2006 7:54:07 AM PDT by usmcobra (Those that are incited to violence by the sight of OUR flag are the enemies of this nation.)
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To: usmcobra
btw, GEN N. B. Forrest said of his MANY Black cavalrymen (and other sorts of CSA veterans), "No better rebels ever drew breath. Those sable lads were magnificent fighters."

don't you wish you hadn't "opened this can of worms", as it makes you look IGNORANT of WELL-documented, incontrovertible, FACTS????

as i've said numerous times of you (and of the lunatics of the "DAMNyankee coven" on FR), "you know NOT & know NOT, that you know NOT".

cobra, you REALLY should go do some reading, from REPUTABLE source documents, about the war & stop reading the secondhand LIES, propaganda & evasive drivel out of northeastern, REVISIONIST, LEFTIST academia. you'd look smarter, thereby.

free dixie,sw

191 posted on 05/03/2006 7:58:48 AM PDT by stand watie ( Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. -----T.Jefferson)
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To: usmcobra
are you REALLY that "brain-dead", that you cannot understand the difference in those TWO rather simple concepts????

OR are you just an ignorant HATER & ANTI-southern BIGOT like "m.eSPINola" & "justshutupandtakeit", both of whom either fear or discount the TRUTH???

frankly, you are becoming the same sort of laughingstock among KNOWLEDGEABLE FReepers, as those "pitiful fellows".

ALL i see you doing is making clueLESS, IGNORANT, SELF-righteous & ,i fear, KNOWINGLY deceitful statements (which do you NO honor).

free dixie,sw

192 posted on 05/03/2006 8:06:13 AM PDT by stand watie ( Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. -----T.Jefferson)
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To: stand watie
and of course you don't have a link to anything you are going to tell me that Nathan Bedford Forrest once said.

and You'll never have any links, you'll only tell me to get educated and go read some book that you once read in a library but no one else can find it or any history of it in the very library you said you read it in.
193 posted on 05/03/2006 8:08:04 AM PDT by usmcobra (Those that are incited to violence by the sight of OUR flag are the enemies of this nation.)
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To: usmcobra
in other words, you think i should remember what book i ever read anything it????

GEN Forrest's comments are WELL-KNOWN to scholars & even most amateur historians of the period.

THAT quote(i think) even you can find "on the web" or in most any of the books on Forrest. (at most any decent sized public library).

free dixie,sw

194 posted on 05/03/2006 8:19:13 AM PDT by stand watie ( Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. -----T.Jefferson)
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To: stand watie; usmcobra
btw, GEN N. B. Forrest said of his MANY Black cavalrymen (and other sorts of CSA veterans), "No better rebels ever drew breath. Those sable lads were magnificent fighters."

As usual, Wartie gets it wrong. Forrest did indeed praise the blacks who were part of his unit, but he never said they were "magnificent fighters," What he said, and what is often quoted in discussions of black confederates, is "Those fellows never left me...and better Confederates did not live."

Now note the ellipses there. It's very interesting that the vast majority of times that line is quoted, those ellipses are there. But what was left out? It turns out, upon some deeper digging, that what he said, in full, was "These fellows never left me, drove my teams, and better confederates never lived." So there it is. No magnificent fighters. No black cavalrymen riding alongside Forrest and shooting it out with the yankees. Just more teamsters and another Watie lie exposed.

195 posted on 05/03/2006 9:30:26 AM PDT by Heyworth
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To: Heyworth
Now note the ellipses there. It's very interesting that the vast majority of times that line is quoted, those ellipses are there. But what was left out? It turns out, upon some deeper digging, that what he said, in full, was "These fellows never left me, drove my teams, and better confederates never lived." So there it is. No magnificent fighters. No black cavalrymen riding alongside Forrest and shooting it out with the yankees. Just more teamsters and another Watie lie exposed.

So then, it is not my original post in #140 that you dispute as inaccurate, nor my statement that: ...and which included black Confederate veterans such as Forrest's wartime drovers and teamsters...?

As for how many were *just* Teamsters [I'm betting you wouldn't denigrate that trade to one of Jimmy Hoffa's lads face-to-face] I'd expect that they were indeed armed and likely rarely used arms; a wise commander does not engage the enemy with his supply train. But at least eight of Forrest's former slaves were among his personal and very armed escort, and those worthies almost certainly engaged in combat alongside the man who had 29 horses shot out from under him.

When the war started, Forrest asked 45 of his slaves (which he considered as servants) to join him, offering them their freedom after the war, no matter how it turned out. They all joined him and although they had numerous opportunities to desert him, 44 stayed by his side until the end of the war. In fact, part of his special command escort later called "the green berets" (ironic isn't it), consisted of the most elite and best soldiers available, and among them were eight black men.

--Dr. Gene Ladnier, author "Fame's Eternal Camping Ground

196 posted on 05/03/2006 1:25:02 PM PDT by archy (I am General Tso. This is my Chief of Staff, Colonel Sanders....)
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To: archy
So then, it is not my original post in #140 that you dispute as inaccurate,

You are correct. I do not dispute anything that you say in #140. I've never been one of the "Forrest started the Klan" guys, and Forrest's postwar record--apart from his unfortunate, but brief connection with the KKK--is basically admirable.

What I did dispute was Watie's spurious quote. In researching the actual quote which Watie was trying to remember (and fabricating when he couldn't), I found that the ellipsed version outnumbers the full version by a huge margin, something I find telling.

197 posted on 05/03/2006 2:33:11 PM PDT by Heyworth
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To: stand watie

Just so you know, I can quote and link to the speeches and writings of Nathan Beford Forrest better then you ever will.

I just don't have to prove me wrong.


198 posted on 05/03/2006 2:41:07 PM PDT by usmcobra (Those that are incited to violence by the sight of OUR flag are the enemies of this nation.)
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To: usmcobra
isn't that special?? (sarcasm.)

free dixie,sw

199 posted on 05/04/2006 7:58:08 AM PDT by stand watie ( Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. -----T.Jefferson)
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To: archy; Heyworth
In fact, part of his special command escort later called "the green berets" (ironic isn't it), consisted of the most elite and best soldiers available, and among them were eight black men.

So you would have us believe that this unit adopted an obscure Basque peasant wool cap as it's symbol 20 years before the first recorded use by the French military? And it just happened to be dyed green? Just how gullible do you think we all are?

200 posted on 05/07/2006 3:51:23 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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