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To: -YYZ-
What is the source of these "inalienable rights"? Why is it "wrong" for one man to enslave another? Or kill him? Or take his belongings?

Man is a social animal. Recognizing natural rights and not initiating force is the only rational way for men to coexist.

History would suggest suggest that such a concept of individualism is not the natural order, most of it having consisted of assorted monarchies, serfdoms, dictatorships...

True. But only because the law of the jungle has prevailed over reason. As to the question of whether a state based on individual liberty has ever existed, some claim Iceland was once as close as a state ever came. I have not studied the claim.

I share your pessimism. I have come to believe the state and true individual liberty cannot coexist. And I am not an anarcho-capitalist.

22 posted on 05/13/2006 8:33:03 PM PDT by NMC EXP (Choose one: [a] party [b] principle.)
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To: NMC EXP

"Man is a social animal. Recognizing natural rights and not initiating force is the only rational way for men to coexist."

But isn't that just another way of saying that "natural rights" are really just a social construct? But I agree that it is the only rational basis on which to build a society - but man, as often as not, is not a rational being.


24 posted on 05/13/2006 8:38:34 PM PDT by -YYZ-
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To: NMC EXP
I have come to believe the state and true individual liberty cannot coexist.

You aren't saying that men can't, in principle, live in harmony are you? How did they get from the Rift Valley to America? I don't think you are really a pessimist but, rather, just disappointed that it's just "sooner than you think."

25 posted on 05/13/2006 8:41:27 PM PDT by Misterioso
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