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Here come the Virginians (A hypothetical look at an Allen-Warner 2008 match up)
The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review ^ | May 14, 2006 | Salena Zito

Posted on 05/14/2006 7:09:56 AM PDT by NorthEasterner

Here come the Virginians By Salena Zito TRIBUNE-REVIEW Sunday, May 14, 2006

Will the commonwealth of Virginia take center stage in 2008?

It is not impossible that Virginia's Republican U.S. senator, George Allen, could square off against its former Democrat governor, Mark Warner, in the 2008 presidential election.

Not since 1944, when Republican Gov. Thomas Dewey of New York ran against that state's former Democrat governor, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, have two men from the same state opposed each other for president.

(Excerpt) Read more at pittsburghlive.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Mexico; News/Current Events; US: New Mexico; US: Texas; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: 2008; aliens; allen; allen2008; bordersecurity; elections; georgeallen; hillary; hillaryclinton; illegalimmigrants; markwarner; mexico; rickperry; virginia; warner; warner2008
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1 posted on 05/14/2006 7:09:59 AM PDT by NorthEasterner
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To: NorthEasterner

Not if Her Heinous has anything to say about it...Warner had better watch his back!


2 posted on 05/14/2006 7:21:22 AM PDT by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., how many girls did you drown today?" (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help m)
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To: NorthEasterner

Mark Warner is such a smooth, slippery snake, he'd wrap his coils around Allen and choke the life out of him.


3 posted on 05/14/2006 7:21:44 AM PDT by Fairview
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To: JimRed
Not if Her Heinous has anything to say about it...Warner had better watch his back!

Warner has a lot of support from old-type Democrats and even from some Republicans who are terrified of Hillary for varying reasons.

4 posted on 05/14/2006 7:23:16 AM PDT by Fairview
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To: NorthEasterner
Anyone running for 2008, in either party, is a long shot - even Hillary - at this point.

On the Republican side, I would say Allen has as good a chance as anyone and better than most. On the Democrat side, this is the first time I have heard Warner mentioned.

5 posted on 05/14/2006 7:23:25 AM PDT by stevem
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To: stevem

interestingly he is only behind Hillary in monies raised, I would put him in the sleeper camp as far as candidates, he is what the D's will be looking at for 08 if they are thinking centrists, he has an appealing personal story and has no qualms about saying that the left need not run their party, makes it an interesting thought


6 posted on 05/14/2006 7:28:23 AM PDT by NorthEasterner (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/columnists/zito/)
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To: stevem

To illustrate what a smoothie Warner is, he won the endrosement of the NRA when he ran for Virginia guv.

It doesn't matter how much money Hitlery has in her coffers.

Her electoral chances are about as much as Bob Dole combined with Imelda Marcos.


7 posted on 05/14/2006 7:33:12 AM PDT by angkor
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To: NorthEasterner
interestingly he is only behind Hillary in monies raised, I would put him in the sleeper camp as far as candidates, he is what the D's will be looking at for 08 if they are thinking centrists, he has an appealing personal story and has no qualms about saying that the left need not run their party, makes it an interesting thought.

I grew up in a Republican household. I was about 9 years old when Nixon ran against Kennedy. It wasn't until perhaps twenty years later that I understood Kennedy to be a moderately conservative politician. That was about when I started reviewing Nixon policies with the perspective of time and understood Nixon to be one of the most liberal politicians of the twentieth century.

These days the Democrat Party hates the United States like the Devil hates holy water. It's so utterly anti-American that I would think it an embarrassment to call yourself part of it. Maybe someday some thinking Democrat will be able to look back and realize how awful Democrats sound these days. I would welcome the thought of some Democrat taking the lead in that party with at least a pro-US stance. I would welcome it even more if the guy could convince me that he believed his own rhetoric.

8 posted on 05/14/2006 7:48:52 AM PDT by stevem
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To: NorthEasterner
As a Virginian I can say the following things about the Warner administration:

1. He raised taxes after running on a platform not to do so.

2. He main accomplishment was to do very little other then raise taxes. He is very much a stealth democrat, he has very little in a record of accomplishment BUT also very little in a record of actually doing harm. (Maybe that now defines a successful democrat!)

3. His most attractive feature as a candidate is he is attractive. He looks good in public and on TV.

He got into office as did his protegee Kaine because a serious of lackluster GOP candidates and campaigns. (Again Warner didn't do ANYTHING so there was little to campaign against regarding Kaine!)
9 posted on 05/14/2006 7:50:14 AM PDT by Reily
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To: NorthEasterner

From poster EternalVigilance:

A man named Ed Gillespie, whose lobbying firm consists of him and Jack Quinn, Bill Clinton's lawyer, has taken very large amounts of money from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce to promote Open Borders.

Ed has shuttled between his cashcow K Street firm and the RNC and this White House for the last six years.

And here's the kicker: Ed Gillespie is now the head of George Allen's PAC.

I think folks should know.

George Allen is an empty suit. His national security credentials are nonexistent. The only true conservative who looks like he might be running is Newt and, if you saw meet the depressed this morning, he makes a lot of sense.

But given his total lack of national security credentials and charisma deficit, I'd have to seriously consider McCain over Allen.

Allen as the nominee pretty much assures a Dem in the White House.

Recently Allen had the audacity to suggest that the US should relax visa requirements for countries that had failed to meet minimum requirements for such relaxed standards.

Allen doesn't get it. He has no national security credentials, has expressed no significant national security thoughts, has introduced no significant national security legislation, and has held no senate leadership positions on national security-related committees.

He is not what we need in this age.

His views on social issues are solid and his fiscal views are good as well. But he falls woefully short on the only issue that really matters while we are in a World War.


10 posted on 05/14/2006 9:38:55 AM PDT by LSUfan
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To: LSUfan

As a resident of Virginia, I prefer Warner over Allen any day...


11 posted on 05/14/2006 9:51:36 AM PDT by chalkfarmer
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To: LSUfan

As a resident of Virginia, I prefer Warner over Allen any day...


12 posted on 05/14/2006 9:51:36 AM PDT by chalkfarmer
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To: LSUfan

thanks for the 411!


13 posted on 05/14/2006 9:54:48 AM PDT by NorthEasterner (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/columnists/zito/)
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To: chalkfarmer

That is certainly not encouraging. I assume that because you are on FreeRepublic that you are a conservative and do not come to this view easily, correct?

Tell us more about why you feel this way?

What I don't understand about the article is how anyone could think Allen has charisma. The comparisons to President Reagan make me nauseated!


14 posted on 05/14/2006 9:55:16 AM PDT by LSUfan
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To: NorthEasterner

Despite what media/pundits and half the political junkies in this country would have you believe, I think Warner is the probable Democratic nominee. I think if Brad Henry is re-elected, he may run too. Because the thing about the Democrats is, in the post-Kennedy era, they have only had success when running Southerners who were percieved as moderate at the time. Every idiot knows this. Therefore, Hillary fails the first test of what's necessary to actually be elected, and never mind the fact she can raise alot of money, Cuomo was able to raise alot of money in 1991 and what happened, and Carter couldn't raise a dime before Iowa as far as 1976 goes. The Democrats are idiots, and they have a consistent record of shooting themselves in the foot, but I doubt it's consistent enough to where they're throwing 2008 away.

Another simple political truth of the post-JFK era, when you run a Southern Democrat at the top of a ticket and have him oppose two Yankees, the Southern Democrat will at least break even in the Southeast. It is for this reason that I think that as a part, we should forget even entertaining the idea of having a non-Southerner as nominee.


15 posted on 05/14/2006 9:58:29 AM PDT by AzaleaCity5691 (The enemy lies in the heart of Gadsden)
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To: LSUfan

1. He's not into gun control
2. He spread aroung the tax cuts and tax increases to all
3. He had forward thinking views on education
4. He's an ex venture capitalist...he wasn't born into wealth, he made his own.
5. Allen just always seemed fake...have you ever heard him on Imus in the morning?


16 posted on 05/14/2006 10:17:40 AM PDT by chalkfarmer
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To: chalkfarmer
As a resident of Virginia, I prefer Warner over Allen any day...

So how are things up in Arlington Co.?

17 posted on 05/14/2006 10:28:05 AM PDT by jla
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To: jla

I don't live in Arlington County, I don't even live in what is considered Northern Virginia. However, I do live a county that is staunchly Republican.


18 posted on 05/14/2006 10:31:19 AM PDT by chalkfarmer
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To: LSUfan

Allen is tied to W. He has gone along with him on all his big spending bills.

A big spending, semi-articulate, Southern, GOP insider is not what the country will vote for in 08.

He's worth about 30% of the vote.


19 posted on 05/14/2006 10:33:58 AM PDT by Blackirish (BORDERS!!! BORDERS!!!! has anything not been said?)
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To: Corin Stormhands

fyi


20 posted on 05/14/2006 10:37:16 AM PDT by jla
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To: AzaleaCity5691
It's hard to predict the dynamics of 2008 this far in advance, but on the Democrat side it could be effectively like 1996--Hillary essentially in the position of an incumbent running for re-election, because of the Clintons' access to money. The Soros types might be tempted to fund a more openly leftist candidate like Feingold, but the main goal is to win, and someone like Feingold may be seen as a loser in the general election.

The Democrats can write off the South, like the Republicans used to. They very nearly won an electoral college majority in 2000 and 2004 with no Southern states...winning New Hampshire in 2000 (which Bush carried by 7,000 votes) would have given Gore the magic number of 270 electoral votes.

21 posted on 05/14/2006 10:39:36 AM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: AzaleaCity5691

Very good points.

That is one reason why Republicans who talk about wanting Rudy Giuliani on the ticket are so deluded. That could do lasting damage to the GOP in the South, especially if the Dems ran Warner.

Giuliani is anti-2nd amendment, pro-abortion and pro-homosexual agenda.


22 posted on 05/14/2006 10:40:24 AM PDT by LSUfan
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To: chalkfarmer

Then could you share your reasoning for thinking Warner to be preferable to Allen?


23 posted on 05/14/2006 10:51:01 AM PDT by jla
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To: Verginius Rufus

Actually, they can't write off the South. Since Arkansas became a state, never, and I mean never, has a Democrat been elected President without winning Arkansas. Hillary was never popular in that state, because while for everything else, Bill was one of them, Hillary never was, and she could never act like she was. Bill's popularity in his gubernatorial days hinged on keeping his wife in line, which he did fairly well from 1983 on.

The reason I think that they do nominate a Southerner is because they're not writing off the South, they want Arkansas, they want West Virginia (if Kerry had won just those two states, he'd be Presidents), etc. I suspect Kerry only won New Hampshire because he was, in spite of all else, a New Englander.


24 posted on 05/14/2006 10:57:30 AM PDT by AzaleaCity5691 (The enemy lies in the heart of Gadsden)
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To: AzaleaCity5691
You're right that every time the Democrats have won the election since 1836, they have carried Arkansas. But a lot has changed in the South since the mid-1960s. Arkansas used to be part of the Democrats' Solid South. Since 1965 it has voted for the Democratic nominee only three times--in 1976 for Carter (as the first Southerner elected from a Southern state since The War) and for Clinton in both of his elections. In 1968 Humphrey came in third (Wallace won the electoral votes).

Obviously it makes it easier for the Democrats if they can pick up one or more Southern states, but they are probably better off focusing on the states which went by narrow margins in the most recent elections.

25 posted on 05/14/2006 11:58:18 AM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Fairview

Excuse me ..?? Allen is another "cowboy" .. and I wouldn't mess with him. He may be soft-spoken, but he's running for re-election and I suspect he's trying to keep from making any waves.

If he runs for pres in '08 - I will vote for him.


26 posted on 05/14/2006 2:47:06 PM PDT by CyberAnt (Drive-by Media: Fake news, fake documents, fake polls)
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To: angkor; EDINVA; iceskater; xyz123; Mudboy Slim; Corin Stormhands; jla; Flora McDonald; ...
To illustrate what a smoothie Warner is, he won the endrosement of the NRA when he ran for Virginia guv.

Not correct.

The NRA issued a release saying Mark Earley was "clearly the better candidate" but declined to endorse anyone in the race. That had to do more with dissatisfaction with Earley than confidence in Warner.

Your are correct however that the terms slick, snot and doorknob may be used in the same descriptive sentence about Mark Warner.

27 posted on 05/14/2006 4:26:07 PM PDT by Corin Stormhands (HHD: Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/)
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To: CyberAnt

I will vote for him too, if he's the Republican nominee, but that doesn't mean that a majority of the electorate (or the Electoral College) will do so. Warner is so slick he's managed to persuade a lot of people that he's a moderate and has successfully concealed the fact that he's a liberal. I fear him.


28 posted on 05/14/2006 4:30:07 PM PDT by Fairview
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To: chalkfarmer; LSUfan; EDINVA; iceskater; xyz123; Mudboy Slim; Corin Stormhands; jla; ...
As a resident of Virginia, I prefer Warner over Allen any day...

Well yes, we know that Governor Kaine. But the decision won't be up to you.

If you think Warner is better than Allen, you're either 1) a DU troll or 2) not legally competent to vote.

And LSUfan, quoting Evie tells us all we need to know about the substance of your posts.

As I've said a bazilliion times, you don't have to like Allen. You don't have to choose him as your candidate for 2008.

But get your facts straight.

Mark Warner is a liberal pretending to be a moderate.

29 posted on 05/14/2006 4:32:33 PM PDT by Corin Stormhands (HHD: Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/)
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To: Corin Stormhands

So what does that make Allen?


30 posted on 05/14/2006 5:08:41 PM PDT by chalkfarmer
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To: chalkfarmer
As a resident of Virginia, I prefer Warner over Allen any day...

As a resident of Virginia, I think you need to get educated on the two candidates.

31 posted on 05/14/2006 5:15:00 PM PDT by Coop (Proud founding member of GCA - Gruntled Conservatives of America)
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To: Reily
"3. His most attractive feature as a candidate is he is attractive."


32 posted on 05/14/2006 5:19:16 PM PDT by Darnright (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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To: Coop

I guess it comes down to the like-ability-factor. I don't like Allen.


33 posted on 05/14/2006 5:22:59 PM PDT by chalkfarmer
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To: Fairview

Well .. it's a while till the election - plenty of time to make his real record known.


34 posted on 05/14/2006 5:28:02 PM PDT by CyberAnt (Drive-by Media: Fake news, fake documents, fake polls)
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To: Corin Stormhands

Senator Allen 2006

35 posted on 05/14/2006 6:21:50 PM PDT by Ligeia (Help unseat Jim Moran: http://www.tomodonoghue.com/about.html)
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To: Ligeia

That's a really nice website!
Mrs. Allen is gorgeous. Seems like a lovely family.
I don't think Mr. Warner could carry off the NASCAR thing in a believable way like Allen can, as shown on the site. Warner is too busy giving Virginia's historic houses to his buddies to associate with ordinary people.
.


36 posted on 05/14/2006 6:28:36 PM PDT by Fairview
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To: Darnright
Well...I am a guy so he is not at all attractive to me !
BUT I have had plenty of women tell me he is hot.
So who am I to argue !
37 posted on 05/14/2006 6:51:17 PM PDT by Reily
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To: chalkfarmer; Coop
So what does that make Allen?

Virginia's best Governor since reconstruction and a darn fine Senator for the Commonwealth.

38 posted on 05/14/2006 7:06:55 PM PDT by Corin Stormhands (HHD: Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/)
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To: Corin Stormhands; Ligeia; Coop

Nothing personal.........but I have no intentions of getting into these spitting contests about 2008 until November 2006 is over.........


39 posted on 05/14/2006 7:17:22 PM PDT by Gabz (Smokers are the beta version)
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To: Gabz; Ligeia; Coop

Not takin' it personal at all. And I understand.

But I ~will~ be vocal when idiots trash the Senator. That doesn't help us with ~now~.


40 posted on 05/14/2006 7:20:54 PM PDT by Corin Stormhands (HHD: Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/)
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To: NorthEasterner

That would be a very interesting race indeed. Being from VA, they were both great governors. I love George Allen, he would get my vote!


41 posted on 05/14/2006 7:22:42 PM PDT by KoRn
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To: Corin Stormhands; Ligeia; Coop
But I ~will~ be vocal when idiots trash the Senator. That doesn't help us with ~now~.

I totally agree and will do the same..........but I came late to the party (some moms do work on Mother's Day) and you had all taken care of things right handily :)

42 posted on 05/14/2006 7:28:49 PM PDT by Gabz (Smokers are the beta version)
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To: Corin Stormhands
Mark Warner is a liberal pretending to be a moderate.

If he is he's a pretty lousy actor.
43 posted on 05/15/2006 2:59:30 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: Corin Stormhands

People need to be continually reminded that Mark Warner pulled a Jon Corzine and raised taxes, with the help of Ching-Ching Chichester and the RINOs in the General Assembly, AFTER being elected on promises not to do so. That right there finishes him off in my book.

}:-)4


44 posted on 05/15/2006 4:16:04 AM PDT by Moose4 (Please don't call me "white trash." I prefer "Caucasian recyclable.")
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To: Corin Stormhands

To illustrate what a smoothie Warner is, he won the endrosement of the NRA when he ran for Virginia guv.

Not correct.




I do stand corrected. Don't know what I was thinking.

http://www.csgv.org/news/headlines/washpost10_26_01.cfm

The Washington Post
NRA Withholds Endorsement in Va. Race
By Craig Timberg and Ann O'Hanlon
October 26, 2001


45 posted on 05/15/2006 5:06:13 AM PDT by angkor
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To: Reily
>BUT I have had plenty of women tell me he is hot.<

I bet the same ones thought this guy was just the sexiest man in the universe:


46 posted on 05/15/2006 6:21:39 AM PDT by Darnright (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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To: KoRn; Corin Stormhands; R. Scott

Both great governors???? What are you smoking?

Warner did nothing except raise taxes during his term of office. He knew when he took office that there would be budget difficulties. He waited more than 4 months to issue agency spending cuts and hiring freezes. If he had done that in the private sector, he never would have made the millions he made. Another example was the massive drought we had. We knew in April that mandatory water restrictions were going to be needed. He waited until AUGUST to implement water restrictions. Then the day after he issued the order, he rescinded it for golf courses. He is incapable of making decisions in a timely manner.

Please - Warner a good governor? I don't think so. And I haven't even gotten to the lying about raising taxes part.


47 posted on 05/15/2006 6:47:08 AM PDT by iceskater (One person's mess is another person's filing system.)
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To: iceskater
Both great governors???? What are you smoking?

I know this isn’t addressed to me!
48 posted on 05/15/2006 8:45:41 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: R. Scott

LOL! Looks like iceskater missed the target. I'll fire a second volley.


49 posted on 05/15/2006 10:20:04 AM PDT by P8riot (Stupid is forever, ignorance can be fixed.)
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To: KoRn; iceskater
Originally posted by iceskater, but I wholeheartedly agree with her sentiments

Both great governors???? What are you smoking?

Warner did nothing except raise taxes during his term of office. He knew when he took office that there would be budget difficulties. He waited more than 4 months to issue agency spending cuts and hiring freezes. If he had done that in the private sector, he never would have made the millions he made. Another example was the massive drought we had. We knew in April that mandatory water restrictions were going to be needed. He waited until AUGUST to implement water restrictions. Then the day after he issued the order, he rescinded it for golf courses. He is incapable of making decisions in a timely manner.

Please - Warner a good governor? I don't think so. And I haven't even gotten to the lying about raising taxes part.

50 posted on 05/15/2006 10:22:59 AM PDT by P8riot (Stupid is forever, ignorance can be fixed.)
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