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Pope asks India not to ban religious conversions
Hindustan Times ^ | May 20, 2006

Posted on 05/19/2006 6:12:50 PM PDT by nickcarraway

India has responded with diplomatic equanimity to Pope Benedict XVI's seemingly provocative remarks condemning attempts to ban religious conversion in certain states.

The pope had told India’s new ambassador to the Vatican, Amitava Tripathi, on Thursday that the country should "firmly reject" attempts "to legislate clearly discriminatory restrictions on the fundamental right to religious freedom". He had also taken note of the "disturbing signs of religious intolerance which had troubled some regions of the nation".

New Delhi responded on Friday with a statement, reiterating the constitutional "freedom of conscience" and the right to freely profess, practise and propagate religion. "It is acknowledged universally that India is a secular and democratic country where adherents of all faiths enjoy equal rights," said a foreign ministry spokesperson.

It was the pope's second declaration this week in defence of religious freedom in countries where Christians are a minority. In India, the statement comes in the backdrop of Rajasthan planning to become the sixth state to enact the anti-conversion law the pope was referring to. Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh, Arunachal Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, and Orissa already have laws that bar conversions but allow re-conversions to Hinduism. Jharkhand has declared its intention to enact a similar law.

The BJP-ruled Rajasthan, however, has not been able to convince Governor Pratibha Patil to give her assent to the Religious Conversion Bill. She returned the bill making a point similar to the one made by the pope -- that its provisions would affect the right to freedom of religion.

The BJP has often attributed attacks on Christian missionaries, including the murder of Graham Staines in Orissa, as reactions to their proselytising. During his recent Bharat Suraksha Yatra, BJP president Rajnath Singh had described proselytising "dangerous" and asked all BJP-ruled states to enact a similar law.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: christians; conversions; india
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To: design engineer

<< Moderation, is the key to co-existence. >>

Of course it is and I am the very model of moderation.

For what it's worth, by the way, I passionately love all of Asia, more than half of my family are Asians, I keep several homes in various Asian countries and live out there for most of every year -- and have done so for more than forty years.

But when I spot an aggressive anti-American and/or anti-Israeli and/or anti-Semite and/or anti-Jew or Christian and/or any kicker of under-dogs, particularly on these boards, I will rhetorically meet his aggression and give him good return on his investment.

And when he is as worthwhile an adversary as is a certain Zero-Sum-Game-conflicted gentleman on this thread, I'll generally keep it up as long as it continues to be fun for me -- and also seems to be either fun for him and/or to be providing him a much-needed education.

Although I'd rather take him out and break some nan with him and have a chat over a nice hot cuppa chai!


451 posted on 05/24/2006 2:34:46 AM PDT by Brian Allen (All that is required to ensure the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke)
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To: GregH
A Nationalism based on a dominant culture of the nation is not bad but a nationalism based on a very narrow section of the dominant culture is not welcome.

The dominant culture of India is Hindu. You still haven't defined this "very narrow section" of Hinduism.

To paraphrase it further, a ideology that goes against established constitutional freedoms and norms.

What is this ideology? This "very narrow section" of Hinduism?

It doesn't exist.

452 posted on 05/24/2006 9:56:28 AM PDT by ARridgerunner
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To: Brian Allen; Gengis Khan; Admin Moderator
A FRiendly word of warning, though, unless you wish your stay hereabouts to be a tempoary one..blah, blah, blah, blah

I am sorry..did I miss the news about you buying FR?? Looks like you have a copyright on conservatism and patriotism . Seriously please read your rants before advising other people.

453 posted on 05/24/2006 11:01:10 PM PDT by The Lion Roars
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To: Gengis Khan

communist lackeys, cunning brahmanas...lol. looks like some people confuse a visit to china town as travelling throught asia.


454 posted on 05/24/2006 11:03:37 PM PDT by The Lion Roars
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To: ARridgerunner

An ideology of some groups associated with the BJP, is narrow, but it is not mainstream.


455 posted on 05/25/2006 2:08:23 AM PDT by GregH
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To: Gengis Khan
Oh yeah right! I am losing perspective eh?

Yes.

The Tamil regional language problem was a minor problem thats was solved with the linguistic restructuring of Indian constitution. It has nothing to do with DMK or AIADMK.

Not really -- the problem was that there was (and IS) a real feeling that Delhi dominates and stamps out regional feelings. That's diminished ever since the south became the center of the IT industry. And you can't deny that or go hysterical and try and think it's related to Sri Lanka.

Terrorism in NE (with the backing of the Church) is supported by the fundings comming from Christian countries and from China

"The Church"? Really, you mean to say that the Catholic Church supports terrorism? You have no proof of that. You post some articles that some crazy individuals from Baptist groups say things, but no church group supports terrorists.

The N-E problem also exists in other states there, even those with Hindu majority because the NE felt (and for your information, that's the past tense), yes, FELT alienated. HAve you noticed that terrorism and militancy in the NE has declined considerably since the 1990s? Why? Because the NE is now part of India's mainstream economy, it's more integrated and people feel that they are part of India.

When the same tirade is used against Hindus as regarding unverified news articles about nuns or Jesuits being assulted (reported by Christian propagandist sites) you would believe them in a heart beat. You dont want to believe this particular article because it shows Christian missionary work in poor light but it does not mean this news has got to be untrue

REally, have you even READ my posts or do you just want to make unqualified remarks? I don't believe silly posts (and you've been copied in on my posts where I do refute such crazy articles). Does that mean that there aren't instances of Christians being targetted in INdia? No. there are Steines cases, but they are barely a handful. are there Hindu persecutions in India? Yes, the same answer qualifies. If a Hindu gets burnt to death by Christians in India or anywhere because of his faith, I'll condemn that, and the opposite as well.

Thats because they are pseudo-secularists. We dont yet have our version of Fox-news and so long as we dont we dont have much choice except to quote from this very biased media about Christian ot Muslims excesses.

If they are pseudo-secularists, why do you quote them as fact when they happen to parallel your views?
456 posted on 06/12/2006 3:30:35 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: Gengis Khan
So by right at least the Imam has a say in India's affairs. The Pope has no such right. His statements are akin to a foreign head of the State directly meddling in India's affairs.

The Pope didn't even try to dictate to India's govt -- he commented, he didn't say "do this". There is a difference.
457 posted on 06/12/2006 3:33:04 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: The Lion Roars
You should try going to an american consulate as a hindu priest with a stated aim of getting a visa to convert the pagan and devil worshipping americans to hinduism. See how fast the consulate officer boots you out.

Really? Then how come so many Hindu priests get religious visas to go to the west?
458 posted on 06/12/2006 3:34:38 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: ARridgerunner
No, I think people first think about surviving in THIS world before they can think of the next one.

most, not all.
459 posted on 06/12/2006 3:35:58 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: Saberwielder

good summation


460 posted on 06/12/2006 3:37:21 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: The Lion Roars
Hinduism cant be destroyed by this missionaries

Who said that it would? YOU. I didn't. I said that those who act like islamic jerks insult Hinduism AND Christianity --> neither religion is like islam.
461 posted on 06/12/2006 3:38:58 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: Gengis Khan
If you want the worst example of Christians violence and atrocities in India then read about the Goan inquisition done by the Portuguese Catholics

Yup -- in the 16th century, which caused a backlash from Hindus. So both sides committed atrocities, and both have been smart enough not to go down that path and in fact both have condemned the acts of violence

The atrocities against Hindus lasted until just a few decades ago when Goa achieved freedom from Portuguese tyranny

Proof? Hindus in Goa were 60% of the population BEFORE it was liberated by India.

Maybe the Pope should apologize for the atrocities against Hindus in Goa before he lectures us about religious freedom.

I think he already has -- as part of the wider apology for the excesses of the inquisition.
462 posted on 06/12/2006 3:41:57 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: Gengis Khan
So you don't believe in freedom of conscience? The last time I checked Italy allows Hindus to be Hindu, and I'll guarantee you that there is no law against conversions in Vatican City. Hardly need to, considering the only people there are Catholic clergy or involved in the Church.

This explains why India cannot yet be considered a functioning liberal democracy...

463 posted on 06/12/2006 3:43:01 PM PDT by austinTparty
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To: Gengis Khan
It is the judiciary's business to ascertain if the conversion is indeed genuine and not simply a scam as is the case with most of the Christian conversions in India.

Ok, so now you give your own propaganda piece -- "most"? That's the problem with the laws -- if they really want to stop conversion by coercion, no one would have a problem, but it's persons tainted by slamofascism who would then use these laws to ban even a person voluntarily accepting another religion.
464 posted on 06/12/2006 3:44:26 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: Gengis Khan
But the fact is they havent changed their beliefs. They have only, momentarily, replaced their idols with crosses because they have been paid large sums of money to do so.

What gives you the right to speak for them, do you really beleive that you can read their minds?

You live in Pune, in urban India and you wish to speak for rural India?

just that they dont start breaking their idols, insult Hindus as pagan demon worshippers, deny thier own past, change their names to western ones, wipe out every sign of their ancient culture, heritage and ethos.

Let's take those one by one -- breaking idols: the Church says that one should not worship other gods, so if the individual takes his old idols and gives them away, that's correct. IF the individual gets a fervour and goes and breaks the idols belonging to other people, that is WRONG.

I agree that the converted shouldnt' insult Hindus as pagan demon worshippers or deny thier own past, or change their names to western ones, or wipe out every sign of their ancient culture, heritage and ethos --> and that's why the Church is now emphasising that Christianity in India must use Indian culture -- down to aartis in the Church.
465 posted on 06/12/2006 3:48:59 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: Gengis Khan
I think India must cut off all ties with Vatican and the Pope.

Boy, someone is hysterical. Thank goodness the govt of India is smarter than that -- it registered its protest and the matter died off.
466 posted on 06/12/2006 3:50:55 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: Cronos
Really? Then how come so many Hindu priests get religious visas to go to the west?

Proof?? Again you should go to a british or american consulate with an avowed intention of converting the pagan christians and then see how fast they throw you out. the number of hindu priests that are allowed is a small trckle and these priests are usually meant for conducting rites in temples

467 posted on 06/12/2006 3:53:23 PM PDT by The Lion Roars
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To: Gengis Khan
If something has to be said then it should be said the way it needs to be said. No reason why we should mince words to keep up a pretty image.

No, there's a difference between telling the Pope that we don't agree with your comments and cutting off all relations. There's a difference between saying "F you" and saying "Stop it". If you have enough force of personality, the latter works a lot better. Example -- India's NRN reacting to Deve Gowda. You're acting like Gowda, while NRN showed how to act more graciously AND get his point across
468 posted on 06/12/2006 3:53:52 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: The Lion Roars
No need to be nice to the "conquistadors".

No conquistadors for the past 3 centuries..... you're a bit behind times
469 posted on 06/12/2006 3:55:09 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: Cronos

The Conquistadors are always there. They just wear different robes. India is well within her rights to boot them out.


470 posted on 06/12/2006 3:58:17 PM PDT by The Lion Roars
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To: design engineer
Never heard of Christian-Hindu mob violence in mainstream India.

Exactly -- nearly all Hindus condemn any violence against Christians -- they may debate on the merits of Christianity, but that's good.

I dont know why some people are intent on provoking a fight between Hindus and Christians.

SOme political extremists in India like the Bajrang Dal wanted to do that, but found that all Hindus don't really like attacks on Christians and most vigourously oppose it (of course, attacks on Muslims are a different matter both for reasons and for reactions). Most Christians in India are staunchly patriotic.
471 posted on 06/12/2006 3:59:12 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: Cronos
No, there's a difference between telling the Pope that we don't agree with your comments and cutting off all relations. There's a difference between saying "F you" and saying "Stop it". If you have enough force of personality, the latter works a lot better. Example -- India's NRN reacting to Deve Gowda. You're acting like Gowda, while NRN showed how to act more graciously AND get his point across

He is defending his people and his culture against a barbaric attack. No need for Gengis to be nice. Gengis is entitled to a "Gengis style attack".

472 posted on 06/12/2006 3:59:43 PM PDT by The Lion Roars
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To: ARridgerunner
Hinduism is everything but Narrow. The one encompasses all.

True -- that's why it's survived (along with it's philosophical depth). However, recent groups want to narrow it down and thankfully they aren't succeeding.
473 posted on 06/12/2006 4:02:45 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: GregH

The ARyanic origin of caste is not really a racial divide -- Hinduism takes some aspects of Aryanic religions (like the gods Indra, Varuna etc.) but these are subsided in more ancient religious figures like Shiva (who is most likely Dravidian/Harappan in origin)


474 posted on 06/12/2006 4:04:19 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: Cronos
Exactly -- nearly all Hindus condemn any violence against Christians -- they may debate on the merits of Christianity, but that's good.

Keep up with the daily dose of hatred against hindus and see how fast it changes. Already many indians who have nothing to do with the hindu right are getting angry.

Read the Signs.. Eduardo Faleiro: Stop Organised Conversion http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1621240.cms Church backing Tripura Rebels says Manik Sarkar (Communist leader) The government in India's north-eastern state of Tripura says it has evidence that the state's Baptist Church is involved in backing separatist rebels. Tripura Chief Minister Manik Sarkar said state police had uncovered details of the alleged link after questioning a church leader. Nagmanlal Halam, secretary of the Noapara Baptist Church in Tripura, was arrested late on Monday with a large quantity of explosives. Mr Sarkar said that allegations about the close links between the state's Baptist Church and the rebel National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT) have long been made by political parties and police. Now for the first time, he said, hard evidence supporting the allegations had been found. Mr Sarkar told the BBC that Mr Halam was found in possession of more than 50 gelatine sticks, 5kg of potassium and 2kg of sulphur and other ingredients for making explosives. He said that two other junior members of the same church, arrested last week, had tipped the police off about the explosives which were meant for the NLFT rebels. The chief minister said that Mr Halam confessed to buying and supplying explosives to the NLFT for the past two years. Another church official, Jatna Koloi, was arrested in south Tripura last week. Police say Mr Koloi had received training in guerrilla warfare at an NLFT base last year. Guards have been placed outside the headquarters of the Baptist Church in Tripura's capital, Agartala, to prevent possible attacks on it once the news of Mr Halam's arrest spread. The NLFT is accused of forcing Tripura's indigenous tribes to become Christians and give up Hindu forms of worship in areas under their control. Last year, they issued a ban on the Hindu festivals of Durga Puja and Saraswati Puja. The NLFT manifesto says that they want to expand what they describe as the kingdom of God and Christ in Tripura.

475 posted on 06/12/2006 4:04:49 PM PDT by The Lion Roars
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To: GregH
garbage infested plague ridden cities, slums like dharavi etc.. these surely are not christian strongholds or even areas but more likely Hindu areas.

Actually those are Muslim areas -- the Muslims in India are the most disease ridden and most likely to live in Slums
476 posted on 06/12/2006 4:05:42 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: David Allen
I support a Christian mission in India, and there is great hostility from the local "holy men" who like to stick needles through their skin to prove ... whatever.

You're generalising as badly as Gengis -- there are Hindu "holy men" who are real religious thinkers.
477 posted on 06/12/2006 4:06:52 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: Gengis Khan
The fact that the Pope has an agenda to Evangelize India is clearly a hostile intent and India must sent across a stong message. Anyway it serves us no purpose to have an embassy in a Theocratic state except to further thier agenda and to acquiesce with their openly stated design to Evangelize India. If Indian Catholics needs the papacy they can elect one of their own.

What is evangelising? it means TELLING people about Christianity. If the persons choose to convert, that's their choice. The Pope wants to tell everyone in India about Christianity and if those people don't want to hear it, ok -- that's what is meant by evangelising. You got a problem with that?

The Papacy is not a local phenomena, the Papacy is distinct from temporal nations, so India cannot have its own Papacy, neither can any other country -- the Papacy is not Indian or Italian or German or Polish, but is separate from ALL of the nations, yet part of ALL nations
478 posted on 06/12/2006 4:10:24 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: The Lion Roars
Hinduism has a good following among educated americans. They purused hinduism and/or buddhism out of their own interest. There were no Gita thumpers knocking on peoples doors.

Err.. ever heard of Hare Krishnas? And they're nice folks, shiny, happy people! Just like the bible thumpers knocking on your door.
479 posted on 06/12/2006 4:17:30 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: Cronos; Gengis Khan
Papacy is not Indian or Italian or German or Polish, but is separate from ALL of the nations, yet part of ALL nations

sure..the next pope is going to be an indian woman. /sarcasm

480 posted on 06/12/2006 4:42:35 PM PDT by The Lion Roars
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To: Cronos
Err.. ever heard of Hare Krishnas? And they're nice folks, shiny, happy people! Just like the bible thumpers knocking on your door.

Yes, I did hear of them? How many of these were converted to hinduism by indian monks thumping gitas? Was there a massive infusion of funds to convert americans to this cult? These people read about hinduism on their own and converted. Do you seriously believe that in the 60s these people could go to the bible belt and have the freedom to preach to christians? In fact in one incident an indian monk - Vivekanand - who tried this was stoned in Texas.

In contrast the british rule over india gave a strong foot hold to missionaries. To this day vast amounts of money are pumped into india with the sole purpose of defaming hinduism and destroying it.

481 posted on 06/12/2006 4:49:47 PM PDT by The Lion Roars
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To: Cronos; Gengis Khan
What is evangelising? it means TELLING people about Christianity. If the persons choose to convert, that's their choice.

Unfortunately in India, it is more than that. It involves bribing, coercion, and relying on superstition to convert the poor. LEt the missionaries train their efforts on educated indians and see how well they succeed.

482 posted on 06/12/2006 4:51:56 PM PDT by The Lion Roars
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To: Cronos
However, recent groups want to narrow it down and thankfully they aren't succeeding.

No, they remain inclusive but the others never were nor will be. What you see reflects the will to survive. (And in that respect, we part company because I wish them much success.)

483 posted on 06/12/2006 5:06:13 PM PDT by ARridgerunner
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To: The Lion Roars
LEt the missionaries train their efforts on educated indians and see how well they succeed.

Better idea: Let the missionaries train their effort on Americans, educated or not. (there's a challenge)

484 posted on 06/12/2006 5:20:13 PM PDT by ARridgerunner
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To: The Lion Roars

The reason why such visas may be refused is due to migration reasons..the chance of the priest running away from his sponsor and joining the illegal economic migrant population is pretty high.

There are all sorts of restrictions for people from Third world nations to visit the USA..most restrictions are to prevent economic migrants.

Most Christians dont really bother about such priests and dont want to restrict their religous freedom. Do you really think that the US or British state dept authorities are concerned about protecting Christian valuees? Are you for real? Do you even reside in the US? Just browse the any number of topics in FR that deal with the State dept and see what they stand for.


485 posted on 06/12/2006 10:21:28 PM PDT by GregH
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To: Cronos

Spot on, the attempts of extremists in the RSS movement to create a anti-Christian movement failed miserably, they simply understand most Hindus did not share their ideology. As far as Christians are concerned, I think that most do realise that Indian society is open minded.


486 posted on 06/12/2006 10:27:10 PM PDT by GregH
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To: Cronos

yeah could be.. considering the illiteracy of the people involved and lack of social development.


487 posted on 06/13/2006 1:15:04 AM PDT by GregH
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To: Cronos

There are some racial orgins in this divide one would think, although it is not as obvious because of the population diversity.


488 posted on 06/13/2006 1:17:05 AM PDT by GregH
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To: Cronos

There are some racial orgins in this divide one would think, although it is not as obvious because of the population diversity.


489 posted on 06/13/2006 1:17:29 AM PDT by GregH
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To: GregH
the chance of the priest running away from his sponsor and joining the illegal economic migrant population is pretty high.

Yes you are right. Chanting of vedic hymns is a popular profession for illegal immigrants. /sarc. Seriously do you have any incidents to support your theory. There are all sorts of restrictions for people from Third world nations to visit the USA..most restrictions are to prevent economic migrants.

Those are mere excuses. Much of the christian world still treats hindus and hinduism with disdain. Building a temple in the deep south in the 60s or 70s was unthinkable. Even today hindus have to run through hoops and loops just to get expansion plans for a temple approved anywhere in the US. By the way, did you know that the Hindus are the richest community in the US. They have the highest per capita income and are the most educated group in this country and I dont see where all this 3rd world excuse comes from. Most Christians dont really bother about such priests and dont want to restrict their religous freedom. Do you really think that the US or British state dept authorities are concerned about protecting Christian valuees?

Yes the US and British State / Foreign departments are concerned about protecting Christians. Alan Keyes was a US Consul Officer in India. The British Government regularly donates to prosleytising church groups to convert poor hindus. This is soo much true when aid is given after natural disasters like earthquakes. The US and British Governments care more for Christianity than the Indian Government could care for Hinduism.

490 posted on 06/13/2006 6:26:06 AM PDT by The Lion Roars
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To: The Lion Roars
sure..the next pope is going to be an indian woman. /sarcasm

Congratulations Nimrod, you just proved how scant your knowledge is -- What I stated was "Papacy is not Indian or Italian or German or Polish, but is separate from ALL of the nations, yet part of ALL nations " which seems to have nothing to do with your bile against the Church. Also, you show your utter ignorance that the Church does not have women priests, so no question of the next pope being a woman from any country.

And to top it off, we then see a person who has no knowledge (about current affairs among other things) top it off by trying to say that the next Pope could not be Indian == completely forgetting that India's Cardinal Ivan Dias was one of those supposed to be Pope JP II's successor and that he's now in the 2nd most important post in the Church after the Pope. An indian pope next? May very well be..
491 posted on 06/13/2006 5:33:28 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: The Lion Roars
How many of these were converted to hinduism by indian monks thumping gitas?

Quite a few -- never heard of hippie colonies beign taught by "holy men" like Satya Sai Babe (a.k.a. Afro-hair style baba?)

Was there a massive infusion of funds to convert americans to this cult?

What cult? You're calling hinduism a cult? Why do you do that? Do you seriously think Hinduism is not deserving to be called a religion but you seem to think that Hinduism is on par with Scientology and just composed of mumbo-jumbo. Shame on you

These people read about hinduism on their own and converted.

Not all and not completely -- ever heard of the Maharishi? The same little gutter argument you make about Christian missionaries can be made abotu Hare Krishna missionaries -- neither coerces a person to join their religion, but just talks to people about it. But you, Lion Rar, say that Hinduism (in your words) is a cult, so do you call Christianity and Hinduism on par as cults?


To this day vast amounts of money are pumped into india with the sole purpose of defaming hinduism and destroying it.

ha. proof? Or are you just going to bring out a different version of the PRotocols of the Elders of Zion?
492 posted on 06/13/2006 5:39:25 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: The Lion Roars
LEt the missionaries train their efforts on educated indians and see how well they succeed.

Actually, they're doing markedly better among educated Indians for the one reason you seem to lack -- namely that Indians are smart and can think for themselves. These educated convert and are intellectual convertees (and/or faith derived)
493 posted on 06/13/2006 5:40:52 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: ARridgerunner
No, they remain inclusive but the others never were nor will be.

Really? The Bajrang Dal is inclusive? The idea of making Hinduism a narrow idea that goes out to kill people is your idea of inclusive? Or do you seem to agree with Lio that Hinduism is, in his mind, a cult?
494 posted on 06/13/2006 5:42:06 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: ARridgerunner
And in that respect, we part company because I wish them much success

So you support jihadis and other people who use violence to kill and maim?

I think it's good that there are groups like the Arya Samaj etc who seek to understand more and explore more about the deeper Hindu philosophies -- they're not a negative group (the Bajrang dal on the other hand and the VHP seem to define Hinduism as a negative religion -- viz. that it is NOT Christianity, it is NOT Buddhism, it is NOT Islam etc etc. -- how pakistani-like(where the pakis also view their country in negative-terms -- it is NOT India))
495 posted on 06/13/2006 5:45:01 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: GregH; The Lion Roars
The reason why such visas may be refused is due to migration reasons..the chance of the priest running away from his sponsor and joining the illegal economic migrant population is pretty high.

The visas aren't refused -- there are quite a few priests given religious visas.
496 posted on 06/13/2006 5:46:08 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: GregH
As far as Christians are concerned, I think that most do realise that Indian society is open minded

Yup -- unlike some folks here, most people IN India and outside realise that even the poorest Indians question things -- the power of a democracy. They aren't sheeple.
497 posted on 06/13/2006 5:47:53 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: GregH

The Muslimes in India are growing -- they were 11% in 1991 and 13% in 2001. The VHP etc. should realise that while Christians will talk to you about their religion and go away if told, the Muslims will just hold a sword to your throat and tell you to convert or die


498 posted on 06/13/2006 5:49:16 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: GregH
There are some racial orgins in this divide one would think, although it is not as obvious because of the population diversity.

Not really -- remember that the idea of race is a pretty recent, 19th century idea.
499 posted on 06/13/2006 5:49:56 PM PDT by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: Cronos
Congratulations Nimrod, you just proved how scant your knowledge is -- What I stated was "Papacy is not Indian or Italian or German or Polish, but is separate from ALL of the nations, yet part of ALL nations " which seems to have nothing to do with your bile against the Church. Also, you show your utter ignorance that the Church does not have women priests, so no question of the next pope being a woman from any country

Thanks Marduk. I didnt know that Cardinal Ivan Dias is the Pope in waiting. Unfortunately I dont have access to the future current times or whatever you read./sarcasm.

Anyways let me answer my own question - the probability of a non white becoming a Pope is extremely small. Atleast a time-series analysis of data seems to indicate so.

500 posted on 06/13/2006 6:05:58 PM PDT by The Lion Roars
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