Pope asks India not to ban religious conversions

Hindustan Times ^ | May 20, 2006

[nickcarraway]

India has responded with diplomatic equanimity to Pope Benedict XVI's seemingly provocative remarks condemning attempts to ban religious conversion in certain states.

The pope had told India’s new ambassador to the Vatican, Amitava Tripathi, on Thursday that the country should "firmly reject" attempts "to legislate clearly discriminatory restrictions on the fundamental right to religious freedom". He had also taken note of the "disturbing signs of religious intolerance which had troubled some regions of the nation".

New Delhi responded on Friday with a statement, reiterating the constitutional "freedom of conscience" and the right to freely profess, practise and propagate religion. "It is acknowledged universally that India is a secular and democratic country where adherents of all faiths enjoy equal rights," said a foreign ministry spokesperson.

It was the pope's second declaration this week in defence of religious freedom in countries where Christians are a minority. In India, the statement comes in the backdrop of Rajasthan planning to become the sixth state to enact the anti-conversion law the pope was referring to. Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh, Arunachal Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, and Orissa already have laws that bar conversions but allow re-conversions to Hinduism. Jharkhand has declared its intention to enact a similar law.

The BJP-ruled Rajasthan, however, has not been able to convince Governor Pratibha Patil to give her assent to the Religious Conversion Bill. She returned the bill making a point similar to the one made by the pope -- that its provisions would affect the right to freedom of religion.

The BJP has often attributed attacks on Christian missionaries, including the murder of Graham Staines in Orissa, as reactions to their proselytising. During his recent Bharat Suraksha Yatra, BJP president Rajnath Singh had described proselytising "dangerous" and asked all BJP-ruled states to enact a similar law.

[Cronos]

Hinduism cant be destroyed by this missionaries

Who said that it would? YOU. I didn't. I said that those who act like islamic jerks insult Hinduism AND Christianity --> neither religion is like islam.

[Cronos]

If you want the worst example of Christians violence and atrocities in India then read about the Goan inquisition done by the Portuguese Catholics

Yup -- in the 16th century, which caused a backlash from Hindus. So both sides committed atrocities, and both have been smart enough not to go down that path and in fact both have condemned the acts of violence

The atrocities against Hindus lasted until just a few decades ago when Goa achieved freedom from Portuguese tyranny

Proof? Hindus in Goa were 60% of the population BEFORE it was liberated by India.

Maybe the Pope should apologize for the atrocities against Hindus in Goa before he lectures us about religious freedom.

I think he already has -- as part of the wider apology for the excesses of the inquisition.

[austinTparty]

So you don't believe in freedom of conscience? The last time I checked Italy allows Hindus to be Hindu, and I'll guarantee you that there is no law against conversions in Vatican City. Hardly need to, considering the only people there are Catholic clergy or involved in the Church.

This explains why India cannot yet be considered a functioning liberal democracy...

[Cronos]

It is the judiciary's business to ascertain if the conversion is indeed genuine and not simply a scam as is the case with most of the Christian conversions in India.

Ok, so now you give your own propaganda piece -- "most"? That's the problem with the laws -- if they really want to stop conversion by coercion, no one would have a problem, but it's persons tainted by slamofascism who would then use these laws to ban even a person voluntarily accepting another religion.

[Cronos]

But the fact is they havent changed their beliefs. They have only, momentarily, replaced their idols with crosses because they have been paid large sums of money to do so.

What gives you the right to speak for them, do you really beleive that you can read their minds?

You live in Pune, in urban India and you wish to speak for rural India?

just that they dont start breaking their idols, insult Hindus as pagan demon worshippers, deny thier own past, change their names to western ones, wipe out every sign of their ancient culture, heritage and ethos.

Let's take those one by one -- breaking idols: the Church says that one should not worship other gods, so if the individual takes his old idols and gives them away, that's correct. IF the individual gets a fervour and goes and breaks the idols belonging to other people, that is WRONG.

I agree that the converted shouldnt' insult Hindus as pagan demon worshippers or deny thier own past, or change their names to western ones, or wipe out every sign of their ancient culture, heritage and ethos --> and that's why the Church is now emphasising that Christianity in India must use Indian culture -- down to aartis in the Church.

[Cronos]

I think India must cut off all ties with Vatican and the Pope.

Boy, someone is hysterical. Thank goodness the govt of India is smarter than that -- it registered its protest and the matter died off.

[The Lion Roars]

Really? Then how come so many Hindu priests get religious visas to go to the west?

Proof?? Again you should go to a british or american consulate with an avowed intention of converting the pagan christians and then see how fast they throw you out. the number of hindu priests that are allowed is a small trckle and these priests are usually meant for conducting rites in temples

[Cronos]

If something has to be said then it should be said the way it needs to be said. No reason why we should mince words to keep up a pretty image.

No, there's a difference between telling the Pope that we don't agree with your comments and cutting off all relations. There's a difference between saying "F you" and saying "Stop it". If you have enough force of personality, the latter works a lot better. Example -- India's NRN reacting to Deve Gowda. You're acting like Gowda, while NRN showed how to act more graciously AND get his point across

[Cronos]

No need to be nice to the "conquistadors".

No conquistadors for the past 3 centuries..... you're a bit behind times

[The Lion Roars]

The Conquistadors are always there. They just wear different robes. India is well within her rights to boot them out.

[Cronos]

Never heard of Christian-Hindu mob violence in mainstream India.

Exactly -- nearly all Hindus condemn any violence against Christians -- they may debate on the merits of Christianity, but that's good.

I dont know why some people are intent on provoking a fight between Hindus and Christians.

SOme political extremists in India like the Bajrang Dal wanted to do that, but found that all Hindus don't really like attacks on Christians and most vigourously oppose it (of course, attacks on Muslims are a different matter both for reasons and for reactions). Most Christians in India are staunchly patriotic.

[The Lion Roars]

No, there's a difference between telling the Pope that we don't agree with your comments and cutting off all relations. There's a difference between saying "F you" and saying "Stop it". If you have enough force of personality, the latter works a lot better. Example -- India's NRN reacting to Deve Gowda. You're acting like Gowda, while NRN showed how to act more graciously AND get his point across

He is defending his people and his culture against a barbaric attack. No need for Gengis to be nice. Gengis is entitled to a "Gengis style attack".

[Cronos]

Hinduism is everything but Narrow. The one encompasses all.

True -- that's why it's survived (along with it's philosophical depth). However, recent groups want to narrow it down and thankfully they aren't succeeding.

[Cronos]

The ARyanic origin of caste is not really a racial divide -- Hinduism takes some aspects of Aryanic religions (like the gods Indra, Varuna etc.) but these are subsided in more ancient religious figures like Shiva (who is most likely Dravidian/Harappan in origin)

[The Lion Roars]

Exactly -- nearly all Hindus condemn any violence against Christians -- they may debate on the merits of Christianity, but that's good.

Keep up with the daily dose of hatred against hindus and see how fast it changes. Already many indians who have nothing to do with the hindu right are getting angry.

Read the Signs.. Eduardo Faleiro: Stop Organised Conversion http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1621240.cms Church backing Tripura Rebels says Manik Sarkar (Communist leader) The government in India's north-eastern state of Tripura says it has evidence that the state's Baptist Church is involved in backing separatist rebels. Tripura Chief Minister Manik Sarkar said state police had uncovered details of the alleged link after questioning a church leader. Nagmanlal Halam, secretary of the Noapara Baptist Church in Tripura, was arrested late on Monday with a large quantity of explosives. Mr Sarkar said that allegations about the close links between the state's Baptist Church and the rebel National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT) have long been made by political parties and police. Now for the first time, he said, hard evidence supporting the allegations had been found. Mr Sarkar told the BBC that Mr Halam was found in possession of more than 50 gelatine sticks, 5kg of potassium and 2kg of sulphur and other ingredients for making explosives. He said that two other junior members of the same church, arrested last week, had tipped the police off about the explosives which were meant for the NLFT rebels. The chief minister said that Mr Halam confessed to buying and supplying explosives to the NLFT for the past two years. Another church official, Jatna Koloi, was arrested in south Tripura last week. Police say Mr Koloi had received training in guerrilla warfare at an NLFT base last year. Guards have been placed outside the headquarters of the Baptist Church in Tripura's capital, Agartala, to prevent possible attacks on it once the news of Mr Halam's arrest spread. The NLFT is accused of forcing Tripura's indigenous tribes to become Christians and give up Hindu forms of worship in areas under their control. Last year, they issued a ban on the Hindu festivals of Durga Puja and Saraswati Puja. The NLFT manifesto says that they want to expand what they describe as the kingdom of God and Christ in Tripura.

[Cronos]

garbage infested plague ridden cities, slums like dharavi etc.. these surely are not christian strongholds or even areas but more likely Hindu areas.

Actually those are Muslim areas -- the Muslims in India are the most disease ridden and most likely to live in Slums

[Cronos]

I support a Christian mission in India, and there is great hostility from the local "holy men" who like to stick needles through their skin to prove ... whatever.

You're generalising as badly as Gengis -- there are Hindu "holy men" who are real religious thinkers.

[Cronos]

The fact that the Pope has an agenda to Evangelize India is clearly a hostile intent and India must sent across a stong message. Anyway it serves us no purpose to have an embassy in a Theocratic state except to further thier agenda and to acquiesce with their openly stated design to Evangelize India. If Indian Catholics needs the papacy they can elect one of their own.

What is evangelising? it means TELLING people about Christianity. If the persons choose to convert, that's their choice. The Pope wants to tell everyone in India about Christianity and if those people don't want to hear it, ok -- that's what is meant by evangelising. You got a problem with that?

The Papacy is not a local phenomena, the Papacy is distinct from temporal nations, so India cannot have its own Papacy, neither can any other country -- the Papacy is not Indian or Italian or German or Polish, but is separate from ALL of the nations, yet part of ALL nations

[Cronos]

Hinduism has a good following among educated americans. They purused hinduism and/or buddhism out of their own interest. There were no Gita thumpers knocking on peoples doors.

Err.. ever heard of Hare Krishnas? And they're nice folks, shiny, happy people! Just like the bible thumpers knocking on your door.

[The Lion Roars]

Papacy is not Indian or Italian or German or Polish, but is separate from ALL of the nations, yet part of ALL nations

sure..the next pope is going to be an indian woman. /sarcasm