Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Iowa Co. Hopes to Make Gasoline Obsolete
AP on Yahoo ^ | 5/19/06 | David Pitt - ap

Posted on 05/19/2006 10:01:17 PM PDT by NormsRevenge

ALGONA, Iowa - While much of the world fumes over escalating fuel prices, a small company in north central Iowa is quietly hoping to make gasoline obsolete as an engine fuel.

Research at the Hydrogen Engine Center Inc. is done in an early 1900s red brick armory at the Kossuth County fairgrounds.

There, a clean six-cylinder engine that looks like it could have been pulled from a Ford pickup has been running for 110 hours, not quite half the 300 hours it must continuously run for certification. The company, led by a retired Ford Motor Co. engineer, hopes to meet Environmental Protection Agency automotive 2007 emission standards.

All 81 parts are original Oxx Power, the brand name the company has given all its engines.

The engine can run on a number of fuels including hydrogen, ethanol, natural gas, propane or digester gas from landfills.

The company, started by Ted Hollinger, 65, is initially focusing on making more efficient, environmentally friendlier engines to replace those used in generators and in forklift trucks, airline ground equipment, irrigation pumps, tractors and buses.

Ford, General Motors and Chrysler have dropped industrial engine production as they've cut costs, leaving what Hollinger said is a ready-made market for his fledgling company.

"Our engine has to bolt in where the old engine went and can't be a thread off," he said. "If you do that and you make improvements in it so that it gets rid of emissions and it's more efficient, then I think people are going to like it."

The company incorporated in Iowa in 2003 and two years later in Canada. It merged with Green Mt. Labs in August 2005 and became a publicly traded company under the name Hydrogen Engine Center Inc.

Hollinger said he insisted that his company have a product to sell from day one instead of starting up as a research and development firm.

The company's products include a six-cylinder engine and a three-cylinder version for small engine applications.

The company has found immediate interest in its hydrogen-powered generators that use five engines.

Brad Van Horn, an engine distributor with Northern Power Productions of Minneapolis, said some orders are already placed for the generators as they approach the production phase.

"The level of excitement is huge," he said.

Van Horn, who sells in Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota and Nebraska, said he gets calls daily from companies running irrigation equipment in Nebraska. Airports needing to replace the Ford engines in their baggage handling and other ground service equipment will also be a large market.

The company said American Airlines alone has 9,500 vehicles likely to be converted to alternative fuels over the next decade.

While the engines drive a revenue stream for the company, engineers are working to improve the technology of engines that run on hydrogen and other clean fuels.

Bob Mendlesky, another retired Ford engineer, light ups when he describes the potential for the engines his shop is developing.

He said there are obstacles to making cars powered with hydrogen-fueled internal combustion engines. To carry enough hydrogen, the fuel tank would have to be under extremely high pressure, he said. In addition, tanks made to that specification cost as much as the engine to power the car.

Hydrogen technology is better suited for generator applications and for industrial uses at its current stage of development, he said.

A better solution may be engines that run on ammonia, Hollinger said.

Development of ammonia as a fuel must include ways to improve its combustibility. Ammonia does not readily spark like other fuels, but Hollinger is determined to overcome some of the obstacles.

"I tell people that I'm no dumber now than when I was at Ford Motor Co. If I can invent at Ford, I can invent here," Hollinger said. "I don't think that there's any reason we can't. Will we? I don't know."

Hollinger said he doesn't expect his small company to make major breakthroughs in the automotive propulsion, but he's willing to work with Ford or any other company working on clean fuel technology.

"I hope in the future the automotive people will look at our stuff and incorporate some of our ideas," he said. "Somebody needs to do something now."

___

On the Net: Hydrogen Engine Center: http://www.hydrogenenginecenter.com


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Iowa
KEYWORDS: energy; environment; gasoline; hopes; hydrogen; invention; iowa; make; obsolete; oil; oxx; oxxpower
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-79 next last

Dean Schultz, of the Hydrogen Engine Center research and development department, monitors an engine, Friday, May 19, 2006, in Algona, Iowa. The company is working on ways to make engines that use alternative fuels including hydrogen. (AP Photo/Charlie Neibergall)


1 posted on 05/19/2006 10:01:18 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: NormsRevenge

the 4 cylinder ranger engines were extremely versatile when adapted to alternative fuels. this sounds like an interesting company


2 posted on 05/19/2006 10:06:20 PM PDT by kinoxi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cacique

Ping!


3 posted on 05/19/2006 10:07:32 PM PDT by Clemenza (Populists Socialists, AND YANKEES FANS Will be Shot on Site)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NormsRevenge

I thought hydrogen was to be used in a fuel cell, and not an internal cumbustion engine.


4 posted on 05/19/2006 10:07:46 PM PDT by StACase
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kinoxi

my thoughts exactly. I believe that, when it comes to alternative fuels, the guys that are going to win are the ones who offer versatility and a broader range of fuel choices for the same engine.

As an M.E., this kinda stuff really grabs my attention. =)


5 posted on 05/19/2006 10:08:24 PM PDT by Zeppelin (Texas Longhorns === National Champions !!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: StACase

nope, its combustible, and highly so.

BMW is doing pretty well with hydrogen combustion engines.

check it out...

http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm?newsid=2040920.001&bmw=1.html/country/gcf


6 posted on 05/19/2006 10:10:52 PM PDT by Zeppelin (Texas Longhorns === National Champions !!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: StACase

There's a reason why the Internal combustion engine is still the basic design after 125 years. It can be modified in innumerable ways.


7 posted on 05/19/2006 10:13:40 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: NormsRevenge
Don't get your hopes up. If that's an old Ford 300 cu. in. inline six it could run 100 hours on sand, sulfuric acid and nitroglycerin.
8 posted on 05/19/2006 10:14:38 PM PDT by CrazyIvan (If you read only one book this year, read "Stolen Valor".)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: StACase

hydrogen is the panacea of the left


9 posted on 05/19/2006 10:15:27 PM PDT by kinoxi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: CrazyIvan

when it runs out just pi$$ in it for a few miles:)


10 posted on 05/19/2006 10:17:16 PM PDT by kinoxi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: NormsRevenge
I invested everything I had in Hydrogen in 1973, remember the "Hydrogen Homestead" good ol Roger didn't lose a dime, all of us "Investors" lost everything, this is just a second fleecing.

Most of the story is Bunk

Hydrogen is good for Energy Cells but it destroys regular Internal Combustion Engines, even regular Gas Stoves run on Hydrogen fail in just a few years.


Just my 2 cents

TT
11 posted on 05/19/2006 10:22:42 PM PDT by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: StACase

FRom their home page, They are doing 'it'.

http://www.hydrogenenginecenter.com/

Clean Power NOW
There is no need to wait for clean power. HEC introduced the first production hydrogen-fueled, spark ignited, internal combustion engine for industrial uses in 2004. We are making engines available years before automotive companies will offer their hydrogen engines for industrial applications.



Clean AFFORDABLE Power
If the cost of fuel cells sinks your budget, then you will love our hydrogen-fueled gensets producing your electrical power. We eliminated complex, expensive solutions in favor of those designs that could approach current power costs, given similar volumes of manufacturing.



If You Aren’t Ready For Hydrogen Yet
HEC has now introduced two gasoline fueled engines that can easily be converted sometime later to use hydrogen. This pre-positioning simplifies the conversion once the hydrogen fuel supply catches up with the installed base. These engines are designed like all new automotive engines are designed today, except with rugged nodular iron blocks and heads for industrial uses.



Alternative Fuels
We will consider customizing for alternative fuels if they have potential for improving our environment. We have research programs underway for high efficiency, and zero emission engines. We will consider all potential sources of hydrogen. Call or email us if you have a project you think might interest us.



Where Will These Engines Be Used?
These engines will be used for airport ground support equipment, agricultural power generation needs, underground mining, emergency power generation, material handling, scissor-lifts and forklifts, military applications, and off-road equipment.


12 posted on 05/19/2006 10:23:29 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi - "The Road to Peace in the Middle East runs thru Damascus.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: TexasTransplant

I would think it would still be a real engine buster,, but.. they say..



These engines are designed like all new automotive engines are designed today, except with rugged nodular iron blocks and heads for industrial uses.


13 posted on 05/19/2006 10:25:20 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi - "The Road to Peace in the Middle East runs thru Damascus.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: NormsRevenge

Yawnnnnn...


14 posted on 05/19/2006 10:30:57 PM PDT by SierraWasp (Without consistent core conservatives in charge, the GOP is fast becoming the Gelded Old Party!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SierraWasp

Yawnnnnn...
Oh, that ploy again?
lol
I worked outside of Algona for awhile, on the foundations for a couple anhydrous ammonia tanks.. that ought to make the eyelids droop. ;-)


15 posted on 05/19/2006 10:33:41 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi - "The Road to Peace in the Middle East runs thru Damascus.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: TexasTransplant; NormsRevenge; tubebender; hedgetrimmer; forester; dalereed; editor-surveyor; ...
Ya know, TT, people are getting so desperate to believe in anything to replace gasoline that it's literally making them crazy!!!

Yet this nation lets the tail wag the dog with the EnvironMentalists telling electeds not to allow drilling in our own land, not to build refineries or nuke plants.

We fight wars with kid gloves because the leftists chant "no blood for oil." Yet we try to fight to get the free flow of oil at market prices, with both our hands tied behind our backs, trying to "make it fair!"

We have all the power we need to resolve this issue and most others, yet we cow-tow to a totally corrupt leftist dominated United Nations so we can remain politically correct and supposedly occupy the so-called "moral highground!"

We keep doing it over and over, hoping for a different result that will never come... We are thus insane!!!

16 posted on 05/19/2006 10:45:01 PM PDT by SierraWasp (Without consistent core conservatives in charge, the GOP is fast becoming the Gelded Old Party!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: NormsRevenge

I don't understand the point.

Where does the hydrogen come from?

Hyrdogen production these days is quite expensive - and still uses other fuels to produce.


17 posted on 05/19/2006 10:45:31 PM PDT by DB ()
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NormsRevenge
I heard it all in '73

But when the rubber meets the road, Hydrogen and Steel (Iron) piston cylinder walls don't mix. I had hope with Ceramics and Aluminum Ceramics and for some reason those ideas went away in the 80's (with the Chevy Vega)

I'm ready to be convinced again, but I will never Invest again, Hydrogen and Nuclear Reactors would completely wean us from MOOslim Oil and the by-product is Irrigation water.

Even the Watermelons can sign off on Hydrogen, we just need to figure our way around a few little problems like fuel tanks and engine cylinder wall crystallization.

TT
18 posted on 05/19/2006 10:45:41 PM PDT by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: TexasTransplant

TT, I meant to thank you for posting the awful truth so as to help others see the light, but instead got all wrapped up in my rant! Please forgive me!!!


19 posted on 05/19/2006 10:46:44 PM PDT by SierraWasp (Without consistent core conservatives in charge, the GOP is fast becoming the Gelded Old Party!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: NormsRevenge

Didja see Billy Saul Estes???


20 posted on 05/19/2006 10:47:52 PM PDT by SierraWasp (Without consistent core conservatives in charge, the GOP is fast becoming the Gelded Old Party!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: kinoxi
"hydrogen is the panacea of the left"

And CA's idiot celebrity Republican RINO Governor!!!

21 posted on 05/19/2006 10:49:21 PM PDT by SierraWasp (Without consistent core conservatives in charge, the GOP is fast becoming the Gelded Old Party!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Zeppelin

Now let's hope we don't get $20 a barrel oilor lower that will
effectively kill it.


22 posted on 05/19/2006 10:51:10 PM PDT by hootiebird
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: kinoxi
hydrogen is the panacea of the left

Yep. Don't you have to burn a lot of coal or natural gas to generate the electricity to make the hydrogen? Of course nuclear power would fix that part of the equation.

23 posted on 05/19/2006 10:52:17 PM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: SierraWasp

Didja see Billy Saul Estes???


--

LOL..
No, can't say I did.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKestes.htm

For those not familiar with the name.


24 posted on 05/19/2006 10:56:00 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi - "The Road to Peace in the Middle East runs thru Damascus.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: CrazyIvan

The Ford 300 inline 6. One hell of a reliable workhorse. My dad bought F-150's for our company for years with this engine in them and they ran like clocks. Got an average of 250,000 miles out of them and that was in the 80's. Since we run everything until the wheels fall off, We have one of them that lasted about 370,000 miles.


25 posted on 05/19/2006 10:57:14 PM PDT by lmr (You can have my Tactical Nuclear Weapons when you pry them from my cold dead fingers.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: SierraWasp
Great Post, Great Observation and I wish I would have posted it. Now that you have, you know that those over at DU will take the 180 position for no other reason other than you said it first.

The Contrarian Situation that exists now is even more insidious than the PC movement. Today Common Sense and Genuine Debate is as scarce as Leadership and Vision.

I miss Ronald Reagan

TT

PS

Never ever count me in the PC Crowd... I can get Crazy without the baggage!
26 posted on 05/19/2006 10:58:47 PM PDT by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Rightwing Conspiratr1

the worst part is that even if this 'fantasy world' of combustible hydrogen power was feasable, it couldn't work. the left is promoting this as a way to slow down global warming. the most potent 'green house' gas known to man is water vapor. what comes out of the pipes of these "eco-friendly" cars? if every internal combustion engine was coverted to hydrogen tomorrow we would all be dead in a matter of years.


27 posted on 05/19/2006 10:59:35 PM PDT by kinoxi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: TexasTransplant
"I had hope with Ceramics and Aluminum Ceramics and for some reason those ideas went away in the 80's (with the Chevy Vega)"

Vega didn't use ceramics in its engines. It had an aluminum block and head, and the car was famously troublesome.

But now, thirty-three years later, aluminum engines are commonplace.

The world has yet to see a ceramic automotive engine in production, however.
28 posted on 05/19/2006 11:02:00 PM PDT by RightOnTheLeftCoast
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: SierraWasp

>>>>"Please forgive me!!!"<<<

Nope

Not until everyone else forgives me...

TT


29 posted on 05/19/2006 11:03:08 PM PDT by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: NormsRevenge

If they can get us off foreign energy sources, then more power to them.


30 posted on 05/19/2006 11:04:12 PM PDT by mysterio
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RightOnTheLeftCoast
Thought the Cosworth Vega had Ceramic Cylinder walls?

(I may just read too much Popular Mechanics and sleep in between articles)

My bad

TT
31 posted on 05/19/2006 11:06:29 PM PDT by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: NormsRevenge

Cool stuff.


32 posted on 05/19/2006 11:10:45 PM PDT by Alexander Rubin (Octavius - You make my heart glad building thus, as if Rome is to be eternal.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kinoxi

"when it runs out just pi$$ in it for a few miles:)"

If they can get one to run on ammonia, then maybe you could.


33 posted on 05/19/2006 11:13:49 PM PDT by PLMerite ("Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. But Evil isn't overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: PLMerite
was a joke referring to post 8.
34 posted on 05/19/2006 11:17:05 PM PDT by kinoxi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Zeppelin
The guys that will win are the gasoline producers.

There's too much oil for prices to keep going up, the deamnd/supply curves are crossing.

However, long term, I believe electric cars will sominate. The can be recharged with nuclear generated electricily...the ultimate "green car" that doesn't make the country dependent on anyone.

35 posted on 05/19/2006 11:31:02 PM PDT by Mariner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Mariner
oil is plentiful and nukes are the only logical choice for future mass development. 'sominate' however sounds like a next gen sleep aid :)
36 posted on 05/19/2006 11:37:14 PM PDT by kinoxi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: kinoxi
must be late:)

I suppose you know I meant "dominate" ?

37 posted on 05/19/2006 11:51:43 PM PDT by Mariner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Mariner

yeah, it must be late. couldn't help it ;)


38 posted on 05/19/2006 11:56:06 PM PDT by kinoxi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: kinoxi

Understood. But somewhere in there they said something about trying to get it to run on ammonia. :)


39 posted on 05/20/2006 12:00:14 AM PDT by PLMerite ("Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. But Evil isn't overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: SierraWasp
So, is there no hope for an engine that is dependant on anything but oil? [beg pardon, but I am not mechanic savvy...its a female thing]...

Someone once told me a parable about how when things seem to be stuck in a mire [metaphorically], one must take things to the next level. Are you saying there is absolutely no hope of finding a viable alternative? [which I would say, totally stinks]. ...Truly, no alternative so just accept it?

40 posted on 05/20/2006 12:05:19 AM PDT by softengine ("As I've matured, I've learned that whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed. ")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: PLMerite
if they could somehow how seperate the hydrogen from the nitrogen in a usable state it would work. i don't know if this has happened yet though.
41 posted on 05/20/2006 12:06:21 AM PDT by kinoxi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: NormsRevenge
i don't think people are going to rush out and buy "environmentally friendly" forklift motors. Besides, they run on propane already.

And what's with the name "Hydrogen Engine," a company that is trying to make engines that burn alternative fuels including hydrogen?

42 posted on 05/20/2006 12:12:11 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand (It takes courage to live. Hence, the "culture of death...")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NormsRevenge
I didn't think Ammonia was even flammable.
43 posted on 05/20/2006 12:22:17 AM PDT by Husker24
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: softengine
Well, it is not really oil that is the problem, rather that the mechanics of a engine, and the combustion of the fuel in the engine .
Some engines do not do well with other fuels, as someone else said that Hydrogen crystallizes ( kind of like small granular particles ) in a engine ( kind of like trowing sand or grit into the engine ( not good at all ).
Grit, dirt, sand, abrasives in a engine would most surely cause a early end to a engine.
The mechanical parts of a engine must run clean to last and run efficiently.
Crude Oil is not only used to make fuels for cars, trucks, internal combustions engines, but, the oil is also use to make lubricants, to lubricate the metal parts of a engine.
Another problem with engines is heat.
Heat can destroy a engine just as much as it not being lubricated, or dirt, grime, sand, abrasives in a engine.
Maybe the solution will come when a totally new kind of engine or propulsion system is invented, that would do away with the internal combustion engine.
Before the car or internal combustion engine, ... water, wind, was used for propulsion, or harnessing it's power to run things like grain mills, pull ships, push ships.
The steam engine was close to a gasoline internal engine ( as in , it had a piston to push the push rod, and then it would cause the crank shaft to turn ) but it run off of steam.
However, the steam engine it has it's own set of problems, most of all hauling all of that wood, coal, and water around to make it feasible.
And the steam engine had it's safety problems as well.
In a internal combustion engine, you have the cylinder, piston, connecting rod, crank shaft, cylinder head, spark plug, oil pump ( those are the main parts for it to run other than the carburetor or fuel injection system ).
When the engine breaths in the air and fuel mixture, the piston goes down.
Then, when it comes back up, it compresses the air and fuel mixture.
Just before the piston tops out near the spark plug and cylinder head you have ignition ( this is were the spark plug has it's spark ) and the fuel ignites or is combusted, or explosion.
Then the piston is forced down the cylinder at great forces that pushes the connection rod down, and that pushes the crankshaft around and that's were you get the turning movement that turns the crankshaft into the turning force that the transmission receives.
When the piston comes back up the 2 nd time, the valve in the cylinder head opens up and let's out the burnt fuel or exhaust gases so the engine can breath to run the cycle again.
44 posted on 05/20/2006 1:21:40 AM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: DB

Bingo.

Had a leftie on another forum ranting about how we should have been developing hydrogen fueled vehicles, instead of going to Iraq. When I asked "where are you getting your hydrogen", I shut him up for a short while.


45 posted on 05/20/2006 1:36:50 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: TexasTransplant

Hydrogen embrittlement of steel is an ugly thing, no doubt. And not something the hydrogen shills want to talk about much.


46 posted on 05/20/2006 1:38:19 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: FreedomPoster
Save the environment and fuel , make the lefties / Liberals / Envirowackos get rid of their cars and walk.
47 posted on 05/20/2006 1:39:01 AM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: NormsRevenge

nothing new about running a car on propane, natural gas,
or hydrogen gas. nothing


48 posted on 05/20/2006 2:30:20 AM PDT by greasepaint
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

To: NormsRevenge
Specular post. Must read. I remember reading about it in the news paper. Good old boy Johnson must have been slick willies teacher. Cover up your corruption by murder. I'll bet things out in Texas and Ark. haven't changed much.
50 posted on 05/20/2006 4:22:08 AM PDT by G-Man 1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-79 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson