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Chavez to buy Russian jets
news.com.au ^ | 22 May 2006

Posted on 05/21/2006 6:49:50 PM PDT by Aussie Dasher

PRESIDENT Hugo Chavez confirmed today that Venezuela will buy Russian fighter jets during a planned visit to Moscow, and warned that Caracas could sell its US-made F-16s to Iran.

"We will soon be in Moscow because we will buy Russian fighter jets to defend these skies and land," Mr Chavez said in a speech on state-owned television.

Mr Chavez hailed the Russian Sukhoi fighters as "the best in the world, 100 times better than the F-16s".

The leftist leader did not say when he planned to travel to Russia, but Venezuela's ambassador to Moscow has said the trip could take place in August or September.

Mr Chavez also said he supports Venezuelan General Alberto Muller Rojas's recommendation to sell the F-16s. Caracas says Washington refuses to supply replacement parts for the warplanes.

The United States has ordered an arms sales ban against Venezuela, accusing Caracas of failing to provide assistance in the "war on terror".

"General Muller made an interesting statement - he said that if they do not want to sell us the F-16 parts, we would sell the planes," Mr Chavez said. "Why lose the money? It's millions of dollars, so Muller said we would sell them to Iran, and that is possible."

But the United States has indicated that it would not allow Venezuela to sell the F-16s to Iran.

"Any time you have the sale of US military equipment to a foreign government, there are clauses and there are agreements that are signed," US State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said last week.

"And part of those agreements are that, without the written consent of the United States, you can't transfer these defence articles, and in this case F16s, to a third country," he said.

"And I would expect that, even if such a request were made, that it would not be forthcoming from the US government," Mr McCormack said.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antiamericanaxis; armsbuildup; coldwar2; communism; communist; dictator; f16; hugochavez; hugoping; kgb; nutbag; putin; russia; russianjets; soviets; sovietunion; ussr; venezuela
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What are the Russians playing at???
1 posted on 05/21/2006 6:49:51 PM PDT by Aussie Dasher
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To: Aussie Dasher

Chavez isn't very bright. The Russians screwed him when they sold him thousands of junk assault rifles a while back.


2 posted on 05/21/2006 6:52:21 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Never a minigun handy when you need one.)
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To: Aussie Dasher

Making money.


3 posted on 05/21/2006 6:52:51 PM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: Aussie Dasher
Making money off this clown's gullibility I suspect.

Why the Venezuelans don't bridle at Chavez wasting their money on high performance aircraft is beyond me.

All he can do with them (assuming he can keep them in the air) is threaten his neighbors -- our guys will make short work of them
4 posted on 05/21/2006 6:53:01 PM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: Aussie Dasher
Muller said we would sell them to Iran, and that is possible.

Go ahead. Iran won't be able to buy parts for them either.

5 posted on 05/21/2006 6:55:21 PM PDT by Orbiting_Rosie's_Head (13EAEE4)
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To: Aussie Dasher

those jets will be easy enough to pick off if necessary.


6 posted on 05/21/2006 6:55:39 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (the Twin Towers were dedicated to "world peace." Islam destroyed them. Meditate.)
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To: Aussie Dasher

The usual.


7 posted on 05/21/2006 6:58:55 PM PDT by dr_who_2
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To: Aussie Dasher

Raptor food.


8 posted on 05/21/2006 6:59:32 PM PDT by COEXERJ145 (Real Leaders Base Their Decisions on Their Convictions. Wannabes Base Decisions on the Latest Poll.)
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To: Aussie Dasher

The F-16's should be destroyed on the ground in Venezuela before they can take off for Iran.

Even an idiot like Chavez would get the message.

BTW, Russia is still our enemy. We've had a fifteen year timeout. Russia has spun off its troublesome Muslim provinces, but it is still countering us in the Middle East and the War on Terror.


9 posted on 05/21/2006 6:59:46 PM PDT by exit82 (If Democrats can lead, then I'm Chuck Norris.)
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To: cripplecreek

Please. Who cares? How bout some sexy latina pics? Now your talking.


10 posted on 05/21/2006 7:00:01 PM PDT by senorjosef
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To: Aussie Dasher

So Iran will have more US F-16s to face fewer Russian planes?


11 posted on 05/21/2006 7:00:03 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Aussie Dasher
Mr Chavez hailed the Russian Sukhoi fighters as "the best in the world, 100 times better than the F-16s".

No airplane is any better than it's pilot and their training. 'Nuff said.

Go right ahead and sell some aging F-16s to Iran. Do you really think they are equipped with everything the US kept models have? Do you think the maintenance and training of personnel is equal? The jokes on you, Chavez, keep running off at the mouth and watch as your own people tire of you and oust you from office one day.

12 posted on 05/21/2006 7:01:43 PM PDT by DakotaRed
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To: cripplecreek
"Chavez isn't very bright. The Russians screwed him when they sold him thousands of junk assault rifles a while back."

Can you provide a reference to this?

13 posted on 05/21/2006 7:03:43 PM PDT by Trinity5
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To: Aussie Dasher; proud_yank

LOL...I guess Chavez forgot that our pilots are probably about 100 times better than his.


14 posted on 05/21/2006 7:03:53 PM PDT by jazusamo (-- Married a WAC in '65 and I'm still reenlisting. :-)
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To: BenLurkin
I watched a show on the history channel a while back about Russia, the USA, and arms dealing. What the Russians were doing was selling early warning radar equipment to Iraq prior to the gulf war. Meanwhile they were selling us the information on it's vulnerabilities.

Da, is good top of line product comrade Saddam. Will find many American planes.
15 posted on 05/21/2006 7:06:16 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Never a minigun handy when you need one.)
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To: Trinity5

There was a story posted here at FR a few months back but I don't have a clue how to dig that one up.


16 posted on 05/21/2006 7:07:19 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Never a minigun handy when you need one.)
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To: Aussie Dasher

17 posted on 05/21/2006 7:12:10 PM PDT by heights
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To: Trinity5

"Chavez isn't very bright. The Russians screwed him when they sold him thousands of junk assault rifles a while back."

Can you provide a reference to this?

Reference is here:
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htproc/articles/20060406.aspx


18 posted on 05/21/2006 7:12:13 PM PDT by Old Guard Conservative
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To: Aussie Dasher
"Chavez to buy Russian jets "

Those jets will do him the same good Saddam's Russian jets did for him. :)
19 posted on 05/21/2006 7:13:10 PM PDT by Jameison
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To: Old Guard Conservative

Cool.
Anyone the swindles Chavez can't be all bad. :)


20 posted on 05/21/2006 7:15:51 PM PDT by Jameison
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To: Old Guard Conservative

Cool.
Anyone the swindles Chavez can't be all bad. :)


21 posted on 05/21/2006 7:15:53 PM PDT by Jameison
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To: Old Guard Conservative
Apparently the Russians missed all the Chinese arms merchants visiting Venezuela lately.

That last line of that story is what we should be more concerned about.
22 posted on 05/21/2006 7:17:16 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Never a minigun handy when you need one.)
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To: Old Guard Conservative; cripplecreek

Thanks for the reference. I wouldn't call them junk, just not what was ordered.


23 posted on 05/21/2006 7:17:42 PM PDT by Trinity5
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To: Trinity5

But relations with another ally, Russia, have soured over a deal in which Moscow is selling 100,000 AK-47s to Venezuela. The South American country was counting on receiving new rifles, but Russia has shipped a number of refurbished models, prompting Caracas to halt the deal, the U.S. sources said.

http://journals.aol.com/republicanlady2/WinningtheWaronTerrorism/entries/1444

http://www.ocnus.net/cgi-bin/exec/view.cgi?archive=91&num=23692


24 posted on 05/21/2006 7:19:59 PM PDT by Flavius (Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum)
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To: Aussie Dasher
Mr Chavez hailed the Russian Sukhoi fighters as "the best in the world, 100 times better than the F-16s".

Chavez is not too bright, eh? Does he have a clue about how childish such a statement makes him appear to be? Do they understand the phrase "sour grapes" in Venezuela?

25 posted on 05/21/2006 7:20:02 PM PDT by Zeppo
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To: Trinity5

That's not the story that was posted here. The one I saw said that a great many of the rifles were inoperable due to the remanufactured parts.


26 posted on 05/21/2006 7:20:31 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Never a minigun handy when you need one.)
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To: Aussie Dasher
so Muller said we would sell them to Iran, and that is possible.

Bull. The Iranians have had experience with U.S. fighters without having the support for them. A fleet of F-14's left over from the Shah. They didn't last long at all. After that, who would do it on purpose?

Chavez if blowing political smoke, and he knows it.

27 posted on 05/21/2006 7:22:21 PM PDT by kAcknor (Don't flatter yourself.... It is a gun in my pocket.)
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To: cripplecreek

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1616231/posts

http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/politics/28.html?id_issue=11498494

A bunch of what was to happen vs what is going to happen or did happen.


28 posted on 05/21/2006 7:23:47 PM PDT by Trinity5
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To: Aussie Dasher

What makes Chavez think that Iran would buy a bunch of ragged out F-16's that they cant get parts for either?

How long will it take for Venezuela pilots and ground maintenace people to get up to speed on the new Russian planes?

Or is Russia planning to send over "advisors".
Like they did with the Cuban missiles.


29 posted on 05/21/2006 7:23:55 PM PDT by sgtbono2002
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To: cripplecreek

Chavez is about as dumb as they come. India is having fits maintaining its Russian made aircraft. No parts are available, the fleet is grounded more than flying. What an idiot!!! Oh well, it will be all the easier to take him out down the road!!! His days are numbered!!!


30 posted on 05/21/2006 7:33:44 PM PDT by JLAGRAYFOX
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To: the invisib1e hand

Wont make it across the atlantic...


31 posted on 05/21/2006 7:33:52 PM PDT by When do we get liberated? (( Multi-culturism has to go for a dirt nap.))
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To: Aussie Dasher

Oh yeah, those Russian "state of the art" fighters, absolutely 100 times better than F16s, will deter likely threats like the Bolivian Air Force.


32 posted on 05/21/2006 7:37:28 PM PDT by Sender (The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. Old Chinese proverb)
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To: Zeppo

Well I'm curious how the Sukhoi measure up to the F16's. Are they better? Is Chavez downgrading his airforce by this move?


33 posted on 05/21/2006 7:41:45 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Aussie Dasher; All
Shouldn't Chavez help the poor in his country before buying arms?


34 posted on 05/21/2006 7:47:12 PM PDT by soccer_maniac (Do some good while browsing FR --> Join our Folding@Home Team# 36120: keyword: folding@home)
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To: Aussie Dasher
The interesting thing about this article isn't that Chavez is going to buy Russian aircraft. He has been talking about that for some time.

The interesting, and disconcerting, thing is that he is now talking Sukhoi vice Mig. Mig-29s due to their short range would hardly be a threat to his neighbors. Sukhoi-27 variants are a different matter entirely. I could really see this nut trying all sorts of wacky stuff with long range fighters.

35 posted on 05/21/2006 7:50:23 PM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: DannyTN
Today's Sukhoi's would be better than yesterday's export F-16, especially without parts. It depends quite a bit on what variant the Russian are willing to export. If it comes with the later variant radar, AA-12 Adder, self protective jammers and extra strap-ons it will be a large shift in air power in that region.

Parts supply from the Russians still seems to be an issue, especially with engines. Not as bad as it used to be, but still a problem.

36 posted on 05/21/2006 7:55:53 PM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: DannyTN
Well I'm curious how the Sukhoi measure up to the F16's. Are they better? Is Chavez downgrading his airforce by this move?

How well do they keep buried in a sand dune?

37 posted on 05/21/2006 7:56:39 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: Aussie Dasher
Russia may sell Chavez Jets, but we will give him some moonbats free of charge.


38 posted on 05/21/2006 7:59:49 PM PDT by GregoTX (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.)
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To: Aussie Dasher
What are the Russians playing at???>>>>>>>>>>>>

The Russians ( and the Chinese) are testing the Monroe Doctrine, because they think the USA is weakened by an over committed military and by a population consisting of 50% liberal socialist wing nuts. They may be right.

Watch for Cuba to announce that it is seeking a nuclear program, supplied by either the Russians or the Chinese.

39 posted on 05/21/2006 8:25:34 PM PDT by Candor7
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To: USNBandit

They will probably not gie them the Adders , most likely Alamos and some tasty little R-73 Archers . At least our pilots would get some worthy target practice if any of the Venezualan pilots have any cajones . They get much training down there , anybody out there know ?


40 posted on 05/21/2006 8:37:09 PM PDT by Stoli Strafemeister (Why is the vodka gone ?)
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To: cripplecreek
If he gets SU 47's he will be well on the way to achieving air superioroty in the region.

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

41 posted on 05/21/2006 8:37:26 PM PDT by Candor7
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To: DakotaRed

Chavez has no clue, the F-22/A Raptor has a performance envelope which far exceeds the F-16. Quite simply there is nothing else in production anywhere else in the world that can compete with it.


42 posted on 05/21/2006 8:41:58 PM PDT by John Frum
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To: Candor7

..providing he has enough cash to buy enough SU47s to make a difference... then again, with all the rampant oil speculation giving our enemies money hand over fist to purchase the weapons...


43 posted on 05/21/2006 8:46:14 PM PDT by BoBToMatoE
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To: Aussie Dasher

another obstruction against the US and China/Russia getting access to that oil.



44 posted on 05/21/2006 9:12:06 PM PDT by Proud_USA_Republican (We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good. - Hillary Clinton)
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To: Orbiting_Rosie's_Head

Like Iran will buy a bunch of hanger queens to add to the ones they already have (old F14's).


45 posted on 05/21/2006 9:20:31 PM PDT by Atchafalaya (When you're there, that's the best!!)
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To: Aussie Dasher

it worked for Iraq...har har har..


46 posted on 05/21/2006 9:32:09 PM PDT by Dick Vomer (liberals suck......... but it depends on what your definition of the word "suck" is.)
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To: kAcknor
The Iranians have had experience with U.S. fighters without having the support for them. A fleet of F-14's left over from the Shah. They didn't last long at all

Incorect. The Iranians have managed to keep about 30 of those F-14s airworthy thanks to the Soviets and the black market not to mention their fleets of F-4s and F-5s.

47 posted on 05/22/2006 9:30:31 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: A.A. Cunningham
OK, I don't have time to dispute, so I'll accept that.

They fly.

They may even have a gun that works.

In a stretch of imagination and impracticability beyond most reason, let's say they have a radar package shoehorned in from a 1980's version of from Soviet Block fighter (tubes and all!)

What they have are manned targets for any power with reasonably up to date aircraft.

48 posted on 05/22/2006 9:58:06 AM PDT by kAcknor (Don't flatter yourself.... It is a gun in my pocket.)
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To: jazusamo; Hill of Tara; Victoria Delsoul; Army Air Corps; Thunder90; monkeywrench; cll; penowa; ...
LOL...I guess Chavez forgot that our pilots are probably about 100 times better than his.

PULL!



PING – Hugo is at it again!

Please FReepmail me if you would like on/off the Hugo/Venezuela Ping list.

HugoPing Archive

49 posted on 05/23/2006 11:39:25 AM PDT by proud_yank (A liberal's 'generosity' is limited to the funds available in someone else's account.)
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To: proud_yank
PULL!

Right on. :-)

50 posted on 05/23/2006 11:49:32 AM PDT by jazusamo (-- Married a WAC in '65 and I'm still reenlisting. :-)
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