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'Illegal' is misunderstood by many [All law is narrative, illegality is arbitrary]
Capital Times ^ | 5-22-06 | Roberto Rodriguez

Posted on 05/22/2006 4:01:24 PM PDT by SJackson

Roberto Rodriguez Anti-immigrants like to bandy about the phrase: "What is it about illegal you don't understand?" And they go ballistic over "amnesty" at the thought of treating all human beings equally and humanely.

Here's a question that should help clarify the meaning of "illegal": In U.S. history, which of the following were not simply common practice, but legal?

A. Forced removal of native peoples and the theft of their lands.

B. Slavery, segregation and racial discrimination, and the denial of voting rights to women.

C. Mass internment of U.S. citizens of Japanese descent and the mass repatriation of U.S. citizens of Mexican descent.

If you answered yes to all of them, you would be correct. But let's fast forward to 2006. Which country asserts the right to:

A. Wage pre-emptive and permanent war against nations that do not pose an imminent threat?

B. Secretly and indefinitely detain suspects incommunicado, without charges, at home and also outside of its legal system, while exempting its military from the international war crimes tribunal and claiming that the Geneva Conventions on war do not apply to this nation?

C. Spy on its own citizens outside of the law, and also asserts the right to use the military for domestic purposes?

If you guessed the United States right again. The U.S. formulation of what is legal/illegal emanates from its military sector. (Since the 1950s, the United States has overthrown dozens of legitimate governments and propped up brutal military dictatorships.) President Bush is but carrying on a tradition that says that whatever he says is legal, is legal, or else.

Truthfully, that legal/illegal formulation, in relation to immigration, can be traced to a much earlier era when Europeans first arrived on this continent.

Americans like to collectively forget/deny that Europeans never had the legal right to seize lands or peoples (as slaves or subjects). American Indian law scholar Steven Newcomb, author of "Five Hundred Years of Injustice," has long argued that Euro-Americans have never established a recognized international legal claim to any land in the Americas. The basis for such claims comes from the so-called doctrine of discovery and the Catholic papal bulls of the 15th and 16th centuries that "gave" European powers the "right" to divide up and conquer the non-Christian world.

Law scholar Sharon Helen Venne, author of "Our Elders Understand Our Rights," also asserts that the institution of the law itself was created by Europeans to specifically deny indigenous peoples their humanity and their rights as human beings and as peoples, thus facilitating land theft and attempts to eliminate and/or dehumanize native populations.

This history is the context of legality/illegality with regard to immigration. It includes a clearly illegal war against Mexico in the 1840s and a history that has treated Indians-Mexicans as demonic, uncivilized and criminal and now equates them with terrorism. The only reason immigration is illegal in relation to Mexicans is because this society continues to view Mexicans most of whom are indigenous-based peoples as subhuman.

The book "Decade of Betrayal," by Francisco E. Balderrama and Raymond Rodriguez, reveals the inhumane anti-Mexican U.S. deportation policies during the 20th century. Additionally, an examination of laws regulating immigration from Canada and Mexico shows that they've always favored the northern border. Historically, Canadians were able to cross into the United States for six months, no questions asked. After those six months, there were no migra hunter battalions looking for them or other Europeans who had overstayed their visas. All sides fail to address the fact that 40 percent of the undocumented population comes in this way. Yet government always finds a way to single out and hunt down Mexicans.

It's time to repeat the phrase: What is it about illegal you don't understand?

There actually is an alternative, by way of the policies of the European Union, that would solve this crisis overnight. All workers from member nations are eligible to work in each others' countries, without losing their rights, citizenship or humanity.

Thus, we can clearly see that notions of illegality are arbitrary. As University of New Mexico scholar Margaret Montoya notes, all law is narrative. That's why if this nation wants to sign multinational agreements such as the North American Free Trade Agreement (U.S., Canada and Mexico) or CAFTA (Central America) or the FTAA (Americas), then human beings cannot be left out of the equation. That's the narrative being inscribed in the jungles of Chiapas and by millions of people marching on U.S. streets: that "no human being is illegal."

Shall we debate the meaning of amnesty and who actually needs it?


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: law; needsabigbarfalert; whitemansburden

1 posted on 05/22/2006 4:01:26 PM PDT by SJackson
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To: SJackson

Well, I guess the only "proper" thing to do would be to dissolve Congress, get rid of government altogether, and go back to the nice, peaceful old days of perpetual inter-tribal warfare - sort of like in Africa today.


2 posted on 05/22/2006 4:05:40 PM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: SJackson

Shouldn't this have a barf alert???


3 posted on 05/22/2006 4:05:50 PM PDT by ibheath (Born again and grateful to God.)
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To: SJackson

where's the barf alert?


4 posted on 05/22/2006 4:06:16 PM PDT by Rakkasan1 (Illegal immigrants are just undocumented friends you haven't met yet!)
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To: SJackson

KEYWORDS: WHEREISTHEBARFALERT


5 posted on 05/22/2006 4:07:29 PM PDT by DumpsterDiver
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To: SJackson

Evil white men built the greatest society the world has ever known and are expected to feel guilty from these post-modernist leeches who want to live off it.


6 posted on 05/22/2006 4:07:49 PM PDT by atomicpossum (Replies must follow approved guidelines or you will be kill-filed without appeal.)
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To: atomicpossum
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
7 posted on 05/22/2006 4:08:23 PM PDT by Rakkasan1 (Illegal immigrants are just undocumented friends you haven't met yet!)
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To: SJackson
Thus, we can clearly see that notions of illegality are arbitrary.

I suppose of I applied a baseball bat to Mr. Rodriguez (heaven forbid) then I wouldn't be arrested, since I would only be exercising my human right to dissent?

8 posted on 05/22/2006 4:08:52 PM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: SJackson
Yet government always finds a way to single out and hunt down Mexicans

If only..

9 posted on 05/22/2006 4:10:32 PM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: atomicpossum
Evil white men built the greatest society the world has ever known and are expected to feel guilty from these post-modernist leeches who want to live off it.

You know what's worse for them? I don't feel one drop of guilt over this.

10 posted on 05/22/2006 4:12:51 PM PDT by HungarianGypsy
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To: SJackson
How come America must give up all claims that they are a nation of laws.

Spain invaded and killed the rulers of Mexico.

Now the survivors of this must be allowed to invade and conquer America!

11 posted on 05/22/2006 4:13:38 PM PDT by rocksblues (Liberals are serial liars)
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To: SJackson
"...It includes a clearly illegal war against Mexico in the 1840s and a history that has treated Indians-Mexicans as demonic, uncivilized and criminal and now equates them with terrorism."

Then tell me, Mr. Rodriguez, why Mexicans are so damn insistent on barging into this terrible country? Hmmmmmmm?

Maybe we should have occupied Mexico City after 1848 and extended the USA clear to Panama.

We would have a lot fewer problems today if we had.

12 posted on 05/22/2006 4:16:48 PM PDT by nightdriver
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To: SJackson

He lost me on the third line.
A series of quesiton to make us feel guilty about our history so we don't do whats best for the country but do what the agitators insist we do. .... Needs a "White Guilt Alert".


13 posted on 05/22/2006 4:18:30 PM PDT by WOSG (Do your duty, be a patriot, support our Troops - VOTE!)
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To: SJackson

This clown writes the article about the bad, mean old United States but doesn't try to explain why the opressed are trying as hard as they can to stay here and bring their friends and families. We should put him in charge of helping these poor people escape their plight here by fleeing to their native countries.


14 posted on 05/22/2006 4:20:00 PM PDT by FreePaul
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To: FreePaul

I wouldn't mind 12 million illegal aliens so much if they all stayed at Roberto's house in Madison and Roberto picked up the entire bill.


15 posted on 05/22/2006 4:23:24 PM PDT by PeoplesRepublicOfWashington (Enhance Capitol security: Censure Cynthia!)
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To: FreePaul
I think he needs a modern dictionary:

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16 posted on 05/22/2006 4:24:12 PM PDT by Rakkasan1 (Illegal immigrants are just undocumented friends you haven't met yet!)
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To: SJackson

So when we slit all the leftists' throats and dump their bodies so that the Ohio and Mississippi run red for a month, will our "narrative" be equally valid?


17 posted on 05/22/2006 4:26:25 PM PDT by Jim Noble (And you know what I'm talkin' 'bout!)
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To: SJackson
Unbelievable.

What is it about illegal aliens breaking our laws that we should just go along with. If we went to their country and broke the same laws that they break here, we would end up in jail.

18 posted on 05/22/2006 4:29:51 PM PDT by Dustbunny (Amazing Grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me)
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To: SJackson
Shall we debate the meaning of amnesty and who actually needs it?

Absolutley! And, in this debate, let us not leave aside from this discussion how Mexico treats their illegal immigrants who only cross into Mexico to do the jobs Mexicans won't do.

After all, family values don't stop at the Yucatan Peninsula, do they?

19 posted on 05/22/2006 4:31:31 PM PDT by Ol' Dan Tucker (Karen Ryan reporting...)
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To: SJackson
Illegal Alien Criminals!

When the rats and the MSM stopped using the term illegal aliens and went first to undocumented immigrants and then to just immigrants, we lost the language war.

20 posted on 05/22/2006 4:34:13 PM PDT by Grampa Dave (There's a dwindling market for Marxist homosexual lunatic wet dreams posing as journalism)
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To: SJackson

We also need to get rid of the wheel, the printed word and fire. Then we can rename the country "Me Tarzan - You Jane."


21 posted on 05/22/2006 4:37:07 PM PDT by sergeantdave (And though getting up in the world attracts attention, it does not establish solid worth.)
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To: SJackson

You notice that, in this piece, the US is on trial here, because we only allow a million immigrants per year, instead of who knows how many this guy thinks would be the magic number.

Not on trial is Mexico, which bleeds people at the rate of 3/4 million a year, who walk, run, or crawl across some of the worst terrain in the world to get away from it, despite the fact that it is one of the biggest oil producers in the world, and an important manufacturing country in its own right. By rights it should be a net importer of manpower, and it will be if it ever gets its corruption and endemic criminality under control. Until then wave after wave of its people will be forced out, and this writer fails to find that noteworthy.

No, its just us under his magnifying glass. We open our doors to a million people a year, legally. All we ask is for the others to wait their turn. That makes us anti-immigrant racists, in this guy's universe.


22 posted on 05/22/2006 4:37:54 PM PDT by marron
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To: marron

Yup. It would be cheaper and less disruptive to just send every Mexican citizen a check for staying home.


23 posted on 05/22/2006 4:42:02 PM PDT by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn’t do!)
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To: Grampa Dave
When the rats and the MSM stopped using the term illegal aliens and went first to undocumented immigrants and then to just immigrants, we lost the language war.

You are absolutely right, which is why I'm removing the words "taxes, income tax, W2, SSI#, withholding, Internal Revenue Service, license(of any sort) and law(s) from my vocabulary.

FMCDH(BITS)

24 posted on 05/22/2006 4:53:11 PM PDT by nothingnew (I fear for my Republic due to marxist influence in our government. Open eyes/see)
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To: SJackson
Americans like to collectively forget/deny that Europeans never had the legal right to seize lands or peoples (as slaves or subjects).

Wrong.

America WAS a European colony. Who d'ya think brought the slaves here in the first place? Oh yeah, and that Indian thing, same deal. The United States of America didn't get going until 1789.

All small points, I know, but this guy is a total wiener head and just peddling the usual lies to advance illegal immigration.
25 posted on 05/22/2006 4:54:46 PM PDT by WorkingClassFilth (Di'ver'si'ty (adj.): A compound word derived from the root words: division; perversion; adversity.)
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To: SJackson
Here's a question that should help clarify the meaning of "illegal":

I'm glad this came up.

Ever since that, "that depends on what the definition of "is" is.." episode, I have looked at our dictionary with a suspect eye.

I truly am glad that more and more, "that is not really what that word means..." folks are coming out of the closet.

Whew......

26 posted on 05/22/2006 4:56:45 PM PDT by LasVegasMac (Islam........not fit for human consumption.)
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To: SJackson
All workers from member nations are eligible to work in each others' countries, without losing their rights, citizenship or humanity.

If they post a surety bond and promise not to use any of our services, conduct all affairs in English and leave their families at home, I might be pursuaded.

27 posted on 05/22/2006 4:58:09 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (I LIKE you! When I am Ruler of Earth, yours will be a quick and painless death </Stewie>)
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To: 45Auto
I suppose if I applied a baseball bat to Mr. Rodriguez (heaven forbid) then I wouldn't be arrested, since I would only be exercising my human right to dissent?

That's correct, since we all know the lefties' favorite Thomas Jefferson quote is "Dissent is the greatest form of patriotism"...except that it's not really a T.J. quote

Mark Steyn: Liberal fabrications about Thomas Jefferson

28 posted on 05/22/2006 5:12:45 PM PDT by GATOR NAVY (Twenty years in the Navy. Never drunk on duty - never sober on liberty)
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To: SJackson

It is beyond me why some people agree with those who can't even present a rational argument.


29 posted on 05/22/2006 6:15:13 PM PDT by cockroach_magoo
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To: SJackson

Time to call the Waaaahmbulance - another Libroid is having an anxiety attack.


30 posted on 05/22/2006 6:51:12 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon Liberty, it is essential to examine principles, - -)
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To: Grampa Dave

"When the rats and the MSM stopped using the term illegal aliens and went first to undocumented immigrants and then to just immigrants, we lost the language war."

But the good news is this - the media have continued to lose their audience because of just the behavior you mentioned.

As the Hippy said, "KEWL, Man - their dogma ran over their karma".


31 posted on 05/22/2006 6:56:54 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon Liberty, it is essential to examine principles, - -)
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To: SJackson

Before you get flamed, are you a proponent of that tripe or are you, (as a conservative) merely bringing this trash to our collective attention?


32 posted on 05/22/2006 7:00:38 PM PDT by Minutemen ("It's a Religion of Peace")
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To: 45Auto

Indeed. I wish Mr. Rodriquez would name that country so we can see if they'd be willing to train our Border Patrol.


33 posted on 05/22/2006 7:13:10 PM PDT by MarcusTulliusCicero
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To: SJackson
Euro-Americans have never established a recognized international legal claim to any land in the Americas.

Pretty rich coming from a guy with the surname of "Rodriguez." Last I heard Spain was a part of Europe.

This entire "law is only a narrative" argument is one of the tenets of the cryptomarxist "Critical Law" fashion and leads inescapably to the idea that law is only a reflection of oppressive power structures. The difficulty with that is that so is remediation. Rodriguez is trying an old leftist flimflam - he is quoting laws that do not even presently exist to judge a time when they couldn't have by standards he would like to apply to the present. Silliness.

34 posted on 05/22/2006 7:21:13 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: SJackson

(1) Where is the Barf Alert????

(2) Roberto Rodriguez of Madison, E-mail: XColumn@gmail.com writes: "There actually is an alternative, by way of the policies of the European Union, that would solve this crisis overnight. All workers from member nations are eligible to work in each others' countries, without losing their rights, citizenship or humanity."

Roberto Rodriguez is a lunatic, right up there with the other "It takes a Village" lunatics. Calling Rodney King... why can't we all get along???


--- No Borders mean no Country


35 posted on 05/22/2006 7:24:17 PM PDT by bwteim (First-time reader, long time poster - posting since Oct 5, 2001)
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To: SJackson

Reduce Crime - Make more things legal.


36 posted on 05/22/2006 7:31:02 PM PDT by MrBambaLaMamba (Buy 'Allah' brand urinal cakes - If you can't kill the enemy at least you can piss on their god)
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To: SJackson

Donde esta el Barf Alert?


37 posted on 05/22/2006 7:32:23 PM PDT by hispanarepublicana (Don't fall for the soft bigotry of assuming all Hispanics are pro-amnesty. www.dontspeakforme.org)
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To: nothingnew

Good Luck and write if you can!:)


38 posted on 05/22/2006 10:04:06 PM PDT by Grampa Dave (There's a dwindling market for Marxist homosexual lunatic wet dreams posing as journalism)
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