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Probe Finds Marines Killed Unarmed Iraqi Civilians
Los Angeles Times ^ | May 26, 2006 | Tony Perry

Posted on 05/27/2006 4:37:13 AM PDT by billorites

SAN DIEGO — Marines from Camp Pendleton wantonly killed unarmed Iraqi civilians, including women and children, and then tried to cover up the slayings in the insurgent stronghold of Haditha, military investigations have found.

Officials who have seen the findings of the investigations said the filing of criminal charges, including some murder counts, was expected, which would make the Nov. 19 incident the most serious case of alleged U.S. war crimes in Iraq.

An administrative inquiry overseen by Army Maj. Gen. Eldon Bargewell found that several infantry Marines fatally shot as many as 24 Iraqis and that other Marines either failed to stop them or filed misleading or blatantly false reports.

The report concludes that a dozen Marines acted improperly after a roadside bomb explosion killed a fellow Marine, Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas.

Looking for insurgents, the Marines entered several homes and began firing their weapons, according to the report.

In its initial statement to the media, the Marine Corps said the Iraqi civilians were killed either by an insurgent bomb or by crossfire between Marines and insurgents.

But after Time magazine obtained pictures showing dead women and children and quoted Iraqis who said the attack was unprovoked, the Marine Corps backtracked on its explanation and called for an investigation.

The Marines, many of whom were on their third deployment to Iraq, are part of the 3rd Battalion, 1st Regiment of the 1st Marine Division.

The battalion commander and two company commanders were relieved of duty last month because, a spokesman said, Maj. Gen. Richard Natonski, commanding general of the division, had lost confidence in their leadership.

The Naval Criminal Investigative Service, which conducted a separate investigation, is expected to call for criminal charges, including murder, negligent homicide, dereliction of duty and filing a false report.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: allegedmurders; haditha; iraq
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1 posted on 05/27/2006 4:37:16 AM PDT by billorites
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To: billorites

yea, once you leave your bomb planted by the road, or stand watch while it is getting planted I guess you might be unarmed


2 posted on 05/27/2006 4:38:59 AM PDT by sure_fine (*not one to over kill the thought process*)
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To: billorites

Personally I would not be quick to judge just because the words "women" and "children" are included.

There is no gender or age difference when it comes to dealing with terrorists. They come in all flavors.


3 posted on 05/27/2006 4:39:21 AM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

I suspect there were terrorists in the home but the marines were not careful when they used deadly force.

I will wait for the report. I don't trust the media to accurately report the story. They'll emphasis the parts they want and ignore other parts.

Hopefully, the military is leaking this report so it won't explode on the scene like Abu Ghrabib. I think the military is smarter now.

Actually, I suspect the actual report will not be as bad as this media spun leaks of the report.


4 posted on 05/27/2006 4:42:53 AM PDT by Patriot from Philly
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

There was a one year old.


5 posted on 05/27/2006 4:44:28 AM PDT by notigar
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To: billorites
Well, just as our America-hating leftmedia has been striving since day one to mold public opinion in order to make Iraq into another Vietnam, they also been not-so-secretly wishing to create another My Lai incident.

It appears that they may have succeeded. Unfortunately.

Now, as then, their subversion masquerades as public service.

6 posted on 05/27/2006 4:45:42 AM PDT by Joe Brower (The Constitution defines Conservatism. *NRA*)
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To: billorites

"military investigations" are Not over, yet the LA SLIMES is printing this as fact.


7 posted on 05/27/2006 4:45:52 AM PDT by divine_moment_of_facts ("Liberals see what they believe... Conservatives believe what they see")
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To: sure_fine

That fact just bugs the crap out of me. How do roadside bombs get planted in these towns and no one sees it being done?


8 posted on 05/27/2006 4:48:36 AM PDT by rabidralph
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To: notigar

I don't know enough of the details, besides the media report. I do know terrorists have used human shields in the past. Maybe they gave that up for lent, I don't know.


9 posted on 05/27/2006 4:50:10 AM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

Sure, but a one year old isn't going to give you that much cover. I mean, are they running around with babies strapped on their chests?


10 posted on 05/27/2006 4:52:44 AM PDT by notigar
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To: Patriot from Philly
"Actually, I suspect the actual report will not be as bad as this media spun leaks of the report."
Second that. For heaven sakes, these cordon and search missions are brutal. Goons run into homes for protection, like any common criminal. What the *ell are our guys supposed to do, kick down a door and politely ask the ala babba to seperate from the innocent and give up. I can with no problem see the goons opening fire in close quarters and killing a few innocence, as the Marines where attempting to get at them, and the Marines are now being blamed.
I hope these Marines get off the hook in the end.
If any of them actually targetted a little kid or women, then let the good Lord deal with them in HIS way. For all we know each one of them may have been exemplatory Marines up to that point. Gotta run. Now working at Home Depot in Richmond area (Castor Arimingo store).... work work work.
11 posted on 05/27/2006 4:56:57 AM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned)
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To: billorites
" Hagee is emphasizing "the importance of our core values" and reminding troops about the laws of war, a Marine Corps statement said."

I'm not worried about our Marines core values. What I worry about is your hamstringing them by telling them to play by the rules of "war" when your confining them to a peacekeeping mission.

Let them loose to clean out the rat holes, remove the reporters, do what has to be done.

12 posted on 05/27/2006 4:58:54 AM PDT by Kakaze (American: a Citizen of the United States of America........not just some resident of said continent)
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To: Patriot from Philly
I'm sure that one of your PA congressman, Jack Murtha, provided this information to the LA Times. So I trust the info is slightly twisted against the Marines. You are wise to wait for the official report, and/or the trials. IF they have done wrong, they will be punished.


13 posted on 05/27/2006 4:59:56 AM PDT by W04Man (Bush2004 Grassroots Campaign We Did It! NOW.... PLEASE STAY THE COURSE!)
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To: billorites

#1 Our men and women serve bravely.
#2 Corps would not condone such an event.

Conclusion: Collateral Damage. When you are fighting a war the asking questions first part just doesn't cut it.


14 posted on 05/27/2006 5:02:14 AM PDT by tomnbeverly (Steer Clear Of Large Metropolitian Areas Because The Liberals Will Reap What They Sow.)
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To: Joe Brower

I am not certain, but was there not a report a few days ago saying top Marine Command was on its way to Iraq to prepare troops for the release of the report?

If this is as serious as it first appears it is important not to trivialize, joke or blame others. My wife just said she is convinced that this story is the reason why the President appeared so reflective and sombre in the press conference a few nights ago.


15 posted on 05/27/2006 5:13:32 AM PDT by spatso
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“On Marine Virtue”
By Gen. M. W. Hagee

Recent serious allegations concerning actions of Marines in combat have caused me concern. They should cause you to be concerned as well. To ensure we continue to live up to General Lejeune’s description of a Marine as someone who demonstrates “all that is highest in military efficiency and soldierly virtue,” I would like to review the importance of our core values.

As Marines, you are taught from your earliest days in the Corps about our core values of honor, courage and commitment. These values are part of and belong to all Marines, regardless of MOS, grade, or gender. They guide us in all that we do; whether in combat, in garrison, or on leave or liberty.

To a Marine, honor is more than just honesty; it means having uncompromising personal integrity and being accountable for all actions. To most Marines, the most difficult part of courage is not the raw physical courage that we have seen so often on today’s battlefield. It is rather the moral courage to do the “right thing” in the face of danger or pressure from other Marines. Finally, commitment is that focus on caring for one another and upholding the great ideals of our Corps and Country.

The nature of this war with its ruthless enemies, and its complex and dangerous battlefield will continue to challenge us in the commitment to our core values. We must be strong and help one another to measure up. The war will also test our commitment to our belief in the rule of law.

We have all been educated in the Law of Armed Conflict. We continue to reinforce that training, even when deployed to combat zones. We do not employ force just for the sake of employing force. We use lethal force only when justified, proportional and, most importantly, lawful. We follow the laws and regulations, Geneva Convention and Rules of Engagement. This is the American way of war. We must regulate force and violence, we only damage property that must be damaged, and we protect the non-combatants we find on the battlefield.

When engaged in combat, particularly in the kind of counterinsurgency operations we’re involved in now, we have to be doubly on guard. Many of our Marines have been involved in life or death combat or have witnessed the loss of their fellow Marines, and the effects of these events can be numbing. There is the risk of becoming indifferent to the loss of a human life, as well as bringing dishonor upon ourselves. Leaders of all grades need to reinforce continually that Marines care for one another and do what is right.

The large majority of Marines today perform magnificently on and off the battlefield. I am very proud of the bravery, dedication, honor, courage and commitment you clearly display every day. And America is proud as well. Americans, indeed most people around the world, recognize that Marines are men and women of the highest caliber – physically, mentally, and morally.

Each one of you contributes in your own unique way to our important mission; I am proud of your dedication and accomplishments. Even after 38 years, I still stand with pride every time I hear the Marines Hymn. The words of that Hymn mean something special to me. Especially, “Keep our Honor Clean”. I know that means something to all of you as well. As Marines we have an obligation to past Marines, fellow Marines, future Marines and ourselves to do our very best to live up to these words.

As your Commandant, I charge all Marines to carry on our proud legacy by demonstrating our values in everything you do – on duty and off; in combat or in garrison. Semper Fidelis.

16 posted on 05/27/2006 5:13:44 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Patriot from Philly
I will wait for the report. I don't trust the media to accurately report the story. They'll emphasis the parts they want and ignore other parts.

I agree..

17 posted on 05/27/2006 5:15:48 AM PDT by cardinal4 (Kerry-Mcarthy in 2008!)
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To: billorites
LA Times story?

These Marines have already been tarred & feathered!

18 posted on 05/27/2006 5:16:18 AM PDT by bubman
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To: billorites
Now for the headline:

"Iraqi women and children complicit in murder of US marine patrol"...dateline, anywhere in Iraq
Iraqi women and children who one day gratefully accept toys and food packages from US Marines remain quietly complicit by shielding in their homes and abetting the murderous activities of their husbands fathers uncles and brothers, who daily endeavor to lure US Marines and Iraqi security forces into IED attacks..."

" In other cases the insurgents (taking notes from the tactics of Viet Cong) purposely shield themselves behind women and children (often their own families, or sometimes the families of villagers considered too "pro-western" or too supportive of the new government)...the insurgents callously assuming that US marines will not respond after cleaning up the blood and body parts of their comrades who have been blown apart in yet another IED....."
19 posted on 05/27/2006 5:18:25 AM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

"they come in all flavors"

And at all "events"--like weddings.


20 posted on 05/27/2006 5:21:45 AM PDT by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like what you say))
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To: notigar

I think in human shield use, they expect that no one is going to shoot at someone next to a child at all whether the child is on them, in them, next to them, etc.


21 posted on 05/27/2006 5:21:52 AM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: notigar; RedBloodedAmerican
Sure, but a one year old isn't going to give you that much cover. I mean, are they running around with babies strapped on their chests?

These islamofacists use our values to try and destroy us. They use mosques as places to do their work and plan their work, knowing that we probably won't be storming a mosque anytime soon. If they thought a US Marine might not shoot them if they have a child in their grasp, I believe they would do it. Anything is possible with these people who have no respect for any human life, adult or child.

23 posted on 05/27/2006 5:32:21 AM PDT by b4its2late (El Rushbo's take on Immigration - Importing poverty to enhance big government.)
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To: billorites
There can be no treachery greater than attacking our military without a complete investigation, trial and unanimous finding of guilt, by a combat experienced jury of their peers.. Our enemy do not wear red hats, or live in purple hideouts. The troops are being shot and killed by civilians with hate in their hearts, and those bitter hearts are seldom worn on their sleeves..

Cut them some slack for God sake, I can easily understand a quick trigger finger, during a firefight.. As for me, I say duck, and shoot the first thing that moves..

24 posted on 05/27/2006 5:32:43 AM PDT by carlo3b (http://www.CookingWithCarlo.com,)
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To: billorites
Anyone even bother to notice that all these "News stories" come from the same unnamed, unsubstantiated source? Sort of like the "US Interrogators flushed a Koran at Gitmo" story that turned out to be a lie.
25 posted on 05/27/2006 5:37:47 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (The is no right to commit Treason in the 1st Amendment .)
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To: billorites

I looked at Google News and the Boston Globe can't wait for the report and is out interviewing the villagers and admitting that they can't verify the stories.

This is going to be painful. The media is so happy about this story. They are going to drive support for the war down to 0 and support for Bush down another 10 points.


26 posted on 05/27/2006 5:40:03 AM PDT by Patriot from Philly
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To: spatso
And maybe it is all a PR lie being spun by the same people that brought you the "Flush the Koran" story. Maybe people should wait for the report and not decide the rumors and innuendo and guessareporting are factual until it is confirmed. Dozens and dozens of lies have been hyped up by the Junk Media over the last 5 years that turned out to be complete and total frauds. Let us ONE time get the facts instead of leaping to conclusions.
27 posted on 05/27/2006 5:41:37 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (The is no right to commit Treason in the 1st Amendment .)
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To: notigar
A human shield is not a shield for a human. Modern weapons are incredibly destructive. To limit the effectiveness of our overwhelming firepower and to generate these sorts of "Atrocity" stories Congressman Treason Murtha is running around spreading, they do stuff like have a family in the next room of a building Insurgents are shooting at US troops from. They could care less about civilian "collateral damage". They merely know how to use our Junk Media against us. What is really sickening is how willing our junk media
28 posted on 05/27/2006 5:45:20 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (The is no right to commit Treason in the 1st Amendment .)
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To: MNJohnnie

President Bush should have been out monthy talking about the heroes of this war, giving examples of bravery.

He's allowed the media to frame the discussion of our effort and make the US military out to be victims, statistics, or criminals.

And what was with that mushy apology with Blair the other night. He has been beaten down.

He could take this incident, get out in front of it and make the media out to be the biased, irresponsible fools that they are.

But he won't, he'll just talk mush. The media senses his weakness.


29 posted on 05/27/2006 5:45:29 AM PDT by Patriot from Philly
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To: MNJohnnie

"Let us ONE time get the facts instead of leaping to conclusions."

I think that is wise.


30 posted on 05/27/2006 5:48:00 AM PDT by spatso
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To: notigar
There were children in the Twin Towers on 9-11. Children were raped, tortured and murdered in the school in Beslan. Our side kills children by accident, THEY do it on purpose. Hate American First types should keep that difference front and center in their heads before mindless accept what our enemies tell them as "Fact"
31 posted on 05/27/2006 5:48:07 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (The is no right to commit Treason in the 1st Amendment .)
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To: notigar

" I mean, are they running around with babies strapped on their chests?"

I wouldnt put it past them. They're animals with little regard for human life.


32 posted on 05/27/2006 5:49:22 AM PDT by Canedawg (In God We Trust)
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To: Patriot from Philly
No, what has happened it the people who SHOULD be President Bush's Echo chamber and help spread the word spend all their time endlessly whining at Bush

"Gee Bush should do this, Bush should do that". When did Conservatives become the party of "sit on our butt and whine until someone comes rescue us"?

33 posted on 05/27/2006 5:50:20 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (The is no right to commit Treason in the 1st Amendment .)
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To: Joe Brower
"Well, just as our America-hating leftmedia has been striving since day one to mold public opinion in order to make Iraq into another Vietnam, they also been not-so-secretly wishing to create another My Lai incident."

One hundred percent correct. I hope the investigation is handled fairly.

34 posted on 05/27/2006 5:54:23 AM PDT by OldEagle (May you live long enough to hear the legends of your own adventures.)
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To: Patriot from Philly
Gee you mean the same Boston Globe that published a front page above the fold fraudlent story about GIs gang raping Iraqi women 2 years ago? Gee maybe people need to get over this utter delusion that the Junk Media is this massive overpowering all dominate force. MORE people listen to talk radio each week then watch the Nightly TV news. THEY do no run the world. If people would get a LOT more cynical about things instead of mindlessly accepting what the Junk Media tells them a gospel maybe they would not have this always doom and gloom mindset. For example. Gee ever wonder why the Junk Media changed from polling LIKELY voters in a 40-40-20 split to polling 38% Dem/27%R/35%Ind? The LAST verifiable result was the 2004 Election. Why don't they use the SAME poll respondent ratio NOW that actually occured then?

Real simply, they would not have this "Bush is a lame duck" story line. It a LIE. Just another example of Garbage IN, Garbage OUT polling

35 posted on 05/27/2006 5:55:44 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (The is no right to commit Treason in the 1st Amendment .)
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To: MNJohnnie

Well, I've perked up since I posted that depressing post. I'm beginning to think that perhaps the military is practiciing good PR, get out in front of the story, let the news out gradually.

In fact, the media could really mess up in this case. They are making one mistate after another. (Note ABC: Hastert).

If the media overplays this their credibility will decrease further.

I can go from gloomy to optimistic in 5 minutes.


36 posted on 05/27/2006 5:56:14 AM PDT by Patriot from Philly
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To: billorites
The Marines, many of whom were on their third deployment to Iraq.

Good grief, why didn't we just level this hellhole and put in some puppet government so we wouldn't have to waste the lives of our soldiers? I'm tired of fighting p. C. wars.

37 posted on 05/27/2006 6:01:20 AM PDT by Smittie
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To: billorites
The allies killed millions of German, Italian, and Japanese civilians during WWII with saturation strategic bombing raids, shelling of cities and towns, and the usual horrors of modern warfare. Many thousands of civilian citizens of occupied nations were killed as well. An estimated 10,000 French civilians were killed accidentally by the allied invasion forces on D-Day alone.

Civilian casualties are a hideous but unavoidable part of warfare, and have been as long as tribes and nations have fought each other. IMHO this is nothing more than another blatant attempt by the leftist appeasers and apologists for Islamic terrorism to discredit and embarrass our military forces and turn more people against our involvement in Iraq. How can we expect our young men and women to join the military when they are put at risk of criminal prosecution if they make a mistake under the life and death pressure of a confused firefight with terrorists disguised as ordinary noncombatants in the midst of a crowded and hostile city environment?

38 posted on 05/27/2006 6:03:01 AM PDT by epow (Jesus is Lord)
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To: MNJohnnie

Note my new tagline.

I sure hope it holds.


39 posted on 05/27/2006 6:03:45 AM PDT by leadpenny (Let us ONE time get the facts instead of leaping to conclusions. ~MNJohnnie)
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To: notigar

Sometimes, crazed, demon-spawn Muslim 1yos, can be quite a handful!!!


40 posted on 05/27/2006 6:14:03 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: Patriot from Philly
Agreed. However anyone who has spent time in the Corps knows that when it comes to stuff like this we will eat our own. Remember the Aviano EA-6B fiasco. The frigging lawyers (yes Marine laywers) are going to stick it to these guys. If there was negligence w/respect to the ROE and there was collateral damage, it won't matter...they are to be sacrificed.
41 posted on 05/27/2006 6:14:07 AM PDT by Spartan_117
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To: notigar
Sure, but a one year old isn't going to give you that much cover. I mean, are they running around with babies strapped on their chests?

They hide behind women who have one year olds strapped to their chests. Possibly under a burqa.

Early on in the war, they used to run vehicles up to checkpoints with women and children passengers in it that would refuse to stop and acted like it was a car bomb, just so it would be fired on and they could use the deaths of those women and children as propaganda.

The odds that a group, not just one soldier with mental problems but a GROUP, would open fire on women and children for no reason is one in a billion.

42 posted on 05/27/2006 6:15:43 AM PDT by Jim_Curtis
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To: notigar
There were babies & children at WACO...they were incinerated!

Is Janet Reno doing time?

If wrongdoing needs addressed, the military will take care of it.

Meanwhile, let's see if the media give the same fair coverage to this as they did their beloved Janet Reno and Bill Clinton.

43 posted on 05/27/2006 6:28:44 AM PDT by Guenevere
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To: billorites
This was just a friendly fire incident.
44 posted on 05/27/2006 6:32:55 AM PDT by Candor7
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To: billorites
Remember this story?

Burning Taliban

45 posted on 05/27/2006 6:47:24 AM PDT by processing please hold (Be careful of charity and kindness, lest you do more harm with open hands than with a clinched fist)
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To: rabidralph
How do roadside bombs get planted in these towns and no one sees it being done?

They don't.

My nephew in Iraq initially had everyone he knew sending clothes, treats, books/pencils to the children he encountered in Iraq. No more.....these children are being used to kill American soldiers.

46 posted on 05/27/2006 7:08:26 AM PDT by MamaLucci (Mutually assured destruction STILL keeps the Clinton administration criminals out of jail.)
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To: billorites

Whose probe?


47 posted on 05/27/2006 7:08:32 AM PDT by freekitty
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To: billorites

The terrorists hide behind civilians and civilians hide the terrorists. Some civilians are bound to be caught in the crossfire. How can our forces tell whether the Iraqi in a nightgown is a civilian or a terrorists?

No way. Shoot first and let Allah sort it out.


48 posted on 05/27/2006 9:53:38 AM PDT by R.W.Ratikal
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To: billorites

According to the Stone-age press, innocent until proven guilty only applies to the clintons!

Pray for W and Our Freedom Fighters


49 posted on 05/27/2006 9:59:00 AM PDT by bray (Top 10 Bushbot!!)
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To: billorites; MNJohnnie; Patriot from Philly; Marine_Uncle; Joe Brower
 
 
Feces slinging is all this is.
 
What really got me was the timing for the release of this particular story, which was right at the beginning of a long weekend for a holiday honoring our Troops. Starting yesterday (Fri.) it was *wham* on every TV channel, radio station, paper, etc. Everywhere. A concerted effort to publicly pi$$ on our troops, nothing more nothing less. They'll probably holler about this throughout the entire holiday weekend along with whatever else they can cue up that's similar. I remember on one channel, they did mention some sort of organization called "Hammurabi Civil Rights League" or some such name (didn't get the exact org name and spelling - sorry) that was pushing this. A likely front organization for Saddam's butt kissers, the Al Queda, et al.
 
The enemy never sleeps.
 
 
 

50 posted on 05/27/2006 10:24:12 AM PDT by lapsus calami (What's that stink? Code Pink ! !)
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